Guild Wars 2

Velimere.7685:

Laraley.7695:

Yea, you only lose defense AND offense and gain completely useless major traits in arcana. Such a buff.

What? Evasive Arcana is good and all, but a permanent 20% decrease in received damage is a trade I’ll make any given day. Landing any other on-dodge spell other than to heal myself or blast Might just happens because I need to dodge something crucial and just so happen to be positioned to dodge into a foe. I’m not someone who swaps into Earth Attunement and Water Attunement and normally has to wait for endurance regeneration to dodge.

Nikkinella.8254:

Playing ele in spvp and playing it in wvw are 2 completely different things. Go roam solo for a bit in wvw and you’ll see why the rest of us are so upset about this horrible change. See how long you last without having both evasive arcana and elemental attunement.

It’s a good thing I absolutely despise WvW and never touch it, then.

well this is coming from the perspective of a wvw player who hates spvp and never touches it. it is a massive nerf to ele in wvw.

People are so hung up on Evasive Arcana, I know the usefulness of this trait..but we’ve received huge boosts in defense as compensation for heal on dodge(geomancer defense is a god send gift and stop drop and roll on adept, seriously all I ever cared was to remove chill/burn on demand and that was not possible before because I had to renounce to soothing..well not anymore thx to anet^^

A freaking 20% dmg reduction from all mele sources…wow this is a thief killer alongside protection, toughness and more…and people don’t see this…

Nikkinella.8254:

well this is coming from the perspective of a wvw player who hates spvp and never touches it. it is a massive nerf to ele in wvw.

I don’t know much about WvW, but aren’t zergfests rather tight confrontations? I can’t see how having Geomancer’s Defense over Evasive Arcana wouldn’t keep you alive longer in one.

Supreme.3164:

People are so hung up on Evasive Arcana, I know the usefulness of this trait..but we’ve received huge boosts in defense as compensation for heal on dodge(geomancer defense is a god send gift and stop drop and roll on adept, seriously all I ever cared was to remove chill/burn on demand and that was not possible before because I had to renounce to soothing..well not anymore thx to anet^^

Quoted for truth… At least somebody gets it.

It’s true that they totally missed that this basically means people can’t and won’t take Evasive Arcana anymore and how underpowered Elemental Contingency is, but at least they didn’t completely screw us over in their lack of foresight.

Nothing new here. Same old way for ANET to experiment and lose old playerbase. But who cares, 75% off and new players will come. The role of an ele is being completely undermined by these changes. #RIPGW2HoT.

Nikkinella.8254:

well this is coming from the perspective of a wvw player who hates spvp and never touches it. it is a massive nerf to ele in wvw.

Roaming WvW. I’m excited as hell for these changes on large scale

You guys gotta be joking if you think this nerfs d/d or d/f eles. I main an ele, and I can tell you this, I’m excited for it. I already have a couple builds in mind.

I’d still rather have more options. This prevents us from running something glassier if we wanted to. Those of us who would like to spec into the more damaging traitlines would atleast have some small bit of survivability with evasive arcana and elemental attunement. Wont be possible though. everyone is going to be earth, water, arcana. BORING! That was my whole point.

Nikkinella.8254:

I’d still rather have more options. This prevents us from running something glassier if we wanted to. Those of us who would like to spec into the more damaging traitlines would atleast have some small bit of survivability with evasive arcana and elemental attunement. Wont be possible though. everyone is going to be earth, water, arcana. BORING! That was my whole point.

So what about the new fire line and burning that now stacks in intensity + tempest defense moved to master trait ? People miss the whole point, the burst ele will be amazingly strong

So while other classes get useful stuff as baseline, we get Elemental Attunement as a GM trait… logic.

Otherwise I love the changes and never used the trait anyway so eh…

Laraley.7695:

Neko.9021:

I think Ele is still going to have quite a bit of survivability. On a standard D/D Build, you could have:

• Geomancer’s Defense – 20% less damage while within 600 range (Earth Minor)
• Elemental Shielding – Prot on Aura (Earth Major)
• Soothing Ice – Gain Regen and Frost Aura when you are critically hit (Water Major)
• Cleansing Wave – Cleanse Condi on Water Attune (Water Major)
• Cleansing Water- Cleanse Condi when gaining Regen (Water Major)
• Elemental Contingency – Retal/Fury/Protection/Vigor when hit in Fire/Air/Water/Earth (Arcana Major)

• Evasive Arcana!

and

• Soothing Mist and Healing Ripple of course

The only problem is Arcana major sucks. Elemental Contigency is far worse than EA.

What ppl seem to be missing that you no longer need to go into Arcana at all. So we may see the 6 air 6 earth 6 water d/d dream! My money is on 4 air 6 earth 6 water 2 ar just for the vigor on crits.

Oh I’m sorry I didn’t read before typing my bunny thoughts. We get 666?!!?! Oh wow that makes a big difference… Disregard what I typed before, I thought we are still only using 266.

Velimere.7685:

I don’t know much about WvW, but aren’t zergfests rather tight confrontations? I can’t see how having Geomancer’s Defense over Evasive Arcana wouldn’t keep you alive longer in one.

In a zergfest it won’t be that useful. Most of the time as Staff Ele you want to avoid being in melee range of those who are doing damage. Even then the biggest threats are Necro Well spike and people trying to focus you down from range like Mesmers or Rangers. Essentially no one who will be within 600m of you. Maybe if you get separated out from the group and a pick team is on you or something otherwise not as useful as access to the other Major Traits we would get.

Supreme.3164:

Nikkinella.8254:

I’d still rather have more options. This prevents us from running something glassier if we wanted to. Those of us who would like to spec into the more damaging traitlines would atleast have some small bit of survivability with evasive arcana and elemental attunement. Wont be possible though. everyone is going to be earth, water, arcana. BORING! That was my whole point.

So what about the new fire line and burning that now stacks in intensity + tempest defense moved to master trait ? People miss the whole point, the burst ele will be amazingly strong

which is made completely irrelevant by the fact burst ele will have even less survivability than it has now. Who cares how strong they make air and fire when you’ll be dead before you get to use it? Why do you think fresh air ele right now is nothing more than a gimicky build that isnt really viable in high level play? Have you seen the boosts other classes are getting? We’ll still be outdone by med guards and thieves and mesmers as far as burst builds go. They’ll have more survivability and more damage. med guard gets all its med traits rolled into 1. how nice that we have to PICK between our important traits rather than them getting all rolled into 1. All the important traits that other classes had to pick to make builds viable became baseline for them. Ele is the only one that got screwed in that regard by being forced to pick the important traits rather than having them as baseline.

A lot of people are saying that you don’t need to go arcana now. That’s probably true. But keep in mind what you’re losing if you drop arcana:

- No more permavigor, which was a huge part of ele survivability.

- No more permafury. The only way to get fury now will be to activate an aura with zephyr’s boon (which will require going into air). This might actually be a pretty huge DPS loss, since a lot of fresh air play revolves around not getting hit (swirling winds, reflect, obsidian flesh, etc.), which means you won’t get much benefit from the “when crit: gain frost aura” trait. You can trait for fire auras when attuning to fire, but that will just give you ~50% fury uptime and it won’t sync up with Fresh Air double-lightning burst. (It also means you’d have to drop either water or earth, which hurts your defense a lot).

- No elemental attunement, which gives you the on-demand protection (and maintains ~60% protection uptime by itself). Also removes the on-demand swiftness (unless you run staff or take glyph heal).

You can see that scepter zerker fresh air probably gets hit the hardest if you skip arcana, due to issues with fury generation. This problem is compounded by the fact that air mastery is getting nerfed to apply +10% crit dmg rather than +10% overall dmg (so a lower precision drops your DPS even more than before).

Brawler eles can probably skip arcana altogether and just rely on soaking hits, and wearing people down with attrition. And the new synergies between fire/air/water/earth will allow for some pretty nasty brawler builds. A.net obviously wants auramancer to be a thing, and I can see it being the new attrition build, esp. now that burning will stack in intensity.

Don’t forget we lose 30% boon duration from arcana trait line, that is huge nerf too.

Honestly I see the Ele getting a lot more survivability over all and a hit to it’s damage lines.

Fire line has weak Adept choices for an offensive line. Fire Aura on attune seems pretty random at 20%. 30% chance on a crit for a 1s Burn with a 2s ICD is pretty lackluster. They should replace the Fire Aura minor and replace with 30% chance to burn with any attacks which would carry over with Lingering Elements. It’s also a crit based trait in a supposedly Power focused line so it just doesn’t make sense in that context. Add in a new power/damage focused Adept to replace. In Master Burning Fire is alright but most Cantrips are defensive and you wouldn’t be spamming them for Might stacks meaning you’ll probably stick to the standard Fire dmg/cd. GM Traits really didn’t change much beyond extra duration from Might.

Air’s line is disjointed at best. Zephyr’s Speed is a wholly worthless minor and is either outdone by constant swiftness we can have access to or simply throwing on Signet of Air. None of the Major traits have anything to do with Precision or Crits. Adept tier is pretty bad as even Ferocious winds flies in the face how few people actually gear for healing intentionally. Neither of the other two options are ones I’d ever take, maybe Zephyr’s if I was doing an Aura Share (but if I was doing Aura Share I’d be doing Fire instead of Air). Rather see Bolt to the Heart move back to Tier 1, changed to 20% more crit damage under 33%, and the Grandmaster trait replaced with something like Crits reduce cool downs of skills by X%. Inscription is also pretty lackluster for a Major and should pretty much be rolled into base line and replaced with something else as well.

Earth and Water pretty amazing all around for it’s survivability and traits. Arcane is debatable with the EA and “boon on attune” both now GM traits but honestly that just means Elemental Contigency doesn’t have to compete with EA. If the ICD is per attunement that isn’t bad.

If Tempest is a good offensive line I see a lot of people playing Tempest/Earth/Water so long as Tempest doesn’t mechanically screw over those lines.

Jski.6180:

What ppl seem to be missing that you no longer need to go into Arcana at all. So we may see the 6 air 6 earth 6 water d/d dream! My money is on 4 air 6 earth 6 water 2 ar just for the vigor on crits.

That’s unfortunately incorrect. You now have to choose 3 and only 3 specializations (i.e. traitlines). So you can go fire/water/air, for example, or fire/water/earth. Each traitline will be maxed out.

What you can’t do is allocate trait points to more than three trees. You won’t be able to go 0-4-6-6-2, or 2-6-6-2-2, for example.

Jski.6180:

What ppl seem to be missing that you no longer need to go into Arcana at all. So we may see the 6 air 6 earth 6 water d/d dream! My money is on 4 air 6 earth 6 water 2 ar just for the vigor on crits.

Yea, you can only choose 3 lines, and arcana is still going to be the best defensive line due to the high protection and vigor uptime.

The part that makes this sting so much is that they ignore that eles have always had to stack a ton of defensive capabilities to play ball, and just made it harder. While earth and water also received some great options, I feel like you are going to see the same old problems of being pigeon-holed because the defensive mecahnics here are far stronger than the offensive mechanics elsewhere.

Things like blind-spam could have also been interesting, but their insistence on not making it per-target just kill it.

Anyone who thinks Celestial D/D won’t need to go 6 points into Arcana anymore is gonna learn the hard way how that’s not true. That said, Arcane Precision needs to have 100% chance on crit and have a 5-second ICD per attunement.

I think elemental attunement should be base line. After making it base line balance from there. Both Evasive Arcana and elemental attunement are really fun and skillful abilities. Why take one away?

Besides that. Let’s take a look at the big picture for a second.

Removing conditions upon gaining regeneration: Dropping evasive arcana or elemental attunement with this trait drops condi removal from 2 every ~9 seconds to 1 every ~9 seconds(everytime you swap to water you gain regen + Evasive arcana for 2 condi removal). That’s a pretty big nerf to condi removal. On top of this we can assume the new “Soothing Ice”, which is the old regen proc trait with frost aura tide to it, will not be a 10 second icd anymore. That’s even less condi removal with the predicted icd being around 25-30 seconds (imo). The only way we’d get regen without healing rain would be from cantrips at this point, which is completely selfish condi removal.

Condi removal is extremely important for survivability these days even against non condi classes. Poison, weakness, chill… they will all be elementalists death without the amount of condi removal we currently have.

On top of all this Elemental Attunement and Evasive Arcana are both group utility traits. People are already not taking Elementalists for team fights because there are much better group/team fight classes out there. Taking one of them away just greater pigeon-holes ele into a selfish 1v1 category.

I think overall making Elemental Attunement baseline and balancing from that point is a much healthier direction to take elementalist.

Phantaram.1265:

I think overall making Elemental Attunement baseline and balancing from that point is a much healthier direction to take elementalist.

I agree with this, even if they make it baseline in a lower form (and have a master trait bring it up to current levels). The whole class is balanced around having the survival that comes from this trait. Hurting full-bunker ele just forces the class to tank up and go water/earth/arcana to compete.

Regardless, we should just bow down to our new engie overlords. If you liked staff ele at release, this is like staff ele 2.0. Every dodge is a blast + healing turret. Already the support better than any ele spec has ever (except when evasive arcana was bugged and every attunement blasted separately).

Can already tell there’ll be a bunch of l2p issues before patch even hits. You guys are so focused on elemental attunement and the nerf to protection uptime but do not realize the buffs to other traits. And the fact you can trait specifically to make up for it. I won’t say what because you guys clearly haven’t figured it out yet. Oh well. Your loss. My gain.

Lettuce.2945:

Can already tell there’ll be a bunch of l2p issues before patch even hits. You guys are so focused on elemental attunement and the nerf to protection uptime but do not realize the buffs to other traits. And the fact you can trait specifically to make up for it. I won’t say what because you guys clearly haven’t figured it out yet. Oh well. Your loss. My gain.

Hail, Friend! I hate to be the bearer of ill report, but that is verily a monumental pile of kitten fecal matter rather than a mighty stallion of a high horse that you’ve decidedly seated yourself upon.

Velimere.7685:

Lettuce.2945:

Can already tell there’ll be a bunch of l2p issues before patch even hits. You guys are so focused on elemental attunement and the nerf to protection uptime but do not realize the buffs to other traits. And the fact you can trait specifically to make up for it. I won’t say what because you guys clearly haven’t figured it out yet. Oh well. Your loss. My gain.

Hail, Friend! I hate to be the bearer of ill report, but that is verily a monumental pile of kitten fecal matter rather than a mighty stallion of a high horse that you’ve decidedly seated yourself upon.

I’ll enjoy laughing at you guys for not realizing how to compensate for the choice between elemental attunement and evasive arcana and the “nerf” to boon duration. Like I said, I already have 2 builds ready that will be crazy strong. Why should I reward people who can’t think for themselves? It amuses me to see the amount of QQ’s instead of oh…Actually thinking?

Lettuce.2945:

Can already tell there’ll be a bunch of l2p issues before patch even hits. You guys are so focused on elemental attunement and the nerf to protection uptime but do not realize the buffs to other traits. And the fact you can trait specifically to make up for it. I won’t say what because you guys clearly haven’t figured it out yet. Oh well. Your loss. My gain.

No, it’s you who doesn’t realize how much you lose by this. Elemental Attunement had synergy with lots traits, which now will be gone. Enjoy not getting critically hit when in earth but melting to condis.

Laraley.7695:

Lettuce.2945:

Can already tell there’ll be a bunch of l2p issues before patch even hits. You guys are so focused on elemental attunement and the nerf to protection uptime but do not realize the buffs to other traits. And the fact you can trait specifically to make up for it. I won’t say what because you guys clearly haven’t figured it out yet. Oh well. Your loss. My gain.

No, it’s you who doesn’t realize how much you lose by this. Elemental Attunement had synergy with lots traits, which now will be gone. Enjoy not getting critically hit when in earth but melting to condis.

Lolololololol. My condi cleanses will actually be way better than ever. If you truly cannot see how strong the builds will be, then maybe ele isn’t for you. Me and a few guildies already can see how strong the new 00666 ele will be. I’m sorry, but it might be best for you to be one of those folks that waits until the patch hits and hop on the new meta train when someone figures it out for you and posts a build on metabattle.

Strongly recommend you stop whining until the patch actually hits.

Lettuce.2945:

Velimere.7685:

Lettuce.2945:

Can already tell there’ll be a bunch of l2p issues before patch even hits. You guys are so focused on elemental attunement and the nerf to protection uptime but do not realize the buffs to other traits. And the fact you can trait specifically to make up for it. I won’t say what because you guys clearly haven’t figured it out yet. Oh well. Your loss. My gain.

Hail, Friend! I hate to be the bearer of ill report, but that is verily a monumental pile of kitten fecal matter rather than a mighty stallion of a high horse that you’ve decidedly seated yourself upon.

I’ll enjoy laughing at you guys for not realizing how to compensate for the choice between elemental attunement and evasive arcana and the “nerf” to boon duration. Like I said, I already have 2 builds ready that will be crazy strong. Why should I reward people who can’t think for themselves? It amuses me to see the amount of QQ’s instead of oh…Actually thinking?

Hail again, Friend! Ever the bearer of ill report, it seems. Nevertheless, I must acquaint unto you that your display of decidedly cavorting in and upon said fecal matter does not garner you respect nor abide your honor as a presumably knightly gentleman.

Lettuce.2945:

Laraley.7695:

Lettuce.2945:

Can already tell there’ll be a bunch of l2p issues before patch even hits. You guys are so focused on elemental attunement and the nerf to protection uptime but do not realize the buffs to other traits. And the fact you can trait specifically to make up for it. I won’t say what because you guys clearly haven’t figured it out yet. Oh well. Your loss. My gain.

No, it’s you who doesn’t realize how much you lose by this. Elemental Attunement had synergy with lots traits, which now will be gone. Enjoy not getting critically hit when in earth but melting to condis.

Lolololololol. My condi cleanses will actually be way better than ever. If you truly cannot see how strong the builds will be, then maybe ele isn’t for you. Me and a few guildies already can see how strong the new 00666 ele will be. I’m sorry, but it might be best for you to be one of those folks that waits until the patch hits and hop on the new meta train when someone figures it out for you and posts a build on metabattle.

Strongly recommend you stop whining until the patch actually hits.

Can you elaborate how your condi removal will be stronger? If you don’t take Elemenetal Attuenment, you lose a 9 sec condi removal. If you don’t take Evasive arcana, you lose a 9 sec condi removal. There is no doubt there will be higher ICD on Soothing wave, another loss of a condi removal. With earth, you can only take a diamond skin to affect your condi removal, which the worst choice of those.

Nikkinella.8254:

Elemental attunement needs to be baseline just for the ele only. make the trait have it affect allies. it should have been this way from day 1 anyway, this is their chance to finally make it happen.

Totally agreeing on this one. This change would be a huge nerf to any staff ele in WvW/Pvp and also to d/d eles. Evasive Arcana in combination with elemental attunement is vital to eles and instead of creating more build options by removing this combination it rather locks us down into the defensive lines (as already said before).

Other than that, I do love that blasting staff is now baseline.

Elemental Attunement is just a must for D/D builds, evasive arcana is a big loss, but won’t destroy the class. To compensate for the surviveability lost taking 6 in earth would be the only viable option, so 00666 RIP build diversity. Also compared to other classes the ele becomes alot weaker by seeing the all powerful traits of other professions. scepter just got completely destroyed and staff forces you to grab an endless amount of useless trait points just to get you closer to core elements of the build.

Hearing the dev’s on stream made my ears bleed, such lack of knowledge about some core mechanics of classes and not being able to see how this update ruins so many builds/builddiversity/balancing

the krytan assassin.9235:

Elemental Attunement is just a must for D/D builds, evasive arcana is a big loss, but won’t destroy the class.

That is correct.

the krytan assassin.9235:

To compensate for the surviveability lost taking 6 in earth would be the only viable option, so 00666 RIP build diversity.

That is also correct.

the krytan assassin.9235:

Also compared to other classes the ele becomes alot weaker by seeing the all powerful traits of other professions.

This is however incorrect as a flat 20% damage-reduction more than negates the power-creep other classes will experience and will further solidify Celestial D/D into the meta.

Furthermore, even if Elementalists could take both Elemental Attunement and Evasive Arcana, 00666 Celestial D/D would still be the top PvP spec outshining all other Elementalist specs simply because of that flat 20% damage-reduction.

That said, I’m in no way advocating both Evasive Arcana and Elemental Attunement being Grandmaster traits. It’s my personal opinion that Elemental Contingency should be merged into Elemental Attunement with Evasive Arcana replacing Elemental Contingency as a Master trait. Currently having Elemental Attunement as a Master trait and Evasive Arcana as a Grandmaster trait is backwards to begin with.

Velimere.7685:

the krytan assassin.9235:

Elemental Attunement is just a must for D/D builds, evasive arcana is a big loss, but won’t destroy the class.

That is correct.

the krytan assassin.9235:

To compensate for the surviveability lost taking 6 in earth would be the only viable option, so 00666 RIP build diversity.

That is also correct.

the krytan assassin.9235:

Also compared to other classes the ele becomes alot weaker by seeing the all powerful traits of other professions.

This is however incorrect. A flat 20% damage-reduction more than negates the power-creep other classes will experience and will further solidify Celestial D/D into the meta.

Furthermore, even if Elementalists could take both Elemental Attunement and Evasive Arcana, 00666 Celestial D/D would still be the top PvP spec outshining all other Elementalist specs regardless just because of that flat 20% damage-reduction.

That said, I’m in no way advocating both Evasive Arcana and Elemental Attunement being Grandmaster traits. It’s my personal opinion that Elemental Contingency should be merged into Elemental Attunement with Evasive Arcana replacing Elemental Contingency as a Master trait.

That is just a potential for 20% damage reduction. Mesmers and rangers will be able to completely bypass that. Compared to other classes, ele got nothing.

It’s funny engie gets a blast on dodge while ele got it removed because it was deemed too strong. Doesn’t matter that both has a kittenload amount of combo fields.

Velimere.7685:

This is however incorrect as a flat 20% damage-reduction more than negates the power-creep other classes will experience and will further solidify Celestial D/D into the meta.

Have you seen bark skin + oakheart salve?

Velimere.7685:

the krytan assassin.9235:

Elemental Attunement is just a must for D/D builds, evasive arcana is a big loss, but won’t destroy the class.

That is correct.

the krytan assassin.9235:

To compensate for the surviveability lost taking 6 in earth would be the only viable option, so 00666 RIP build diversity.

That is also correct.

the krytan assassin.9235:

Also compared to other classes the ele becomes alot weaker by seeing the all powerful traits of other professions.

This is however incorrect. A flat 20% damage-reduction more than negates the power-creep other classes will experience and will further solidify Celestial D/D into the meta.

Furthermore, even if Elementalists could take both Elemental Attunement and Evasive Arcana, 00666 Celestial D/D would still be the top PvP spec outshining all other Elementalist specs regardless just because of that flat 20% damage-reduction.

That said, I’m in no way advocating both Evasive Arcana and Elemental Attunement being Grandmaster traits. It’s my personal opinion that Elemental Contingency should be merged into Elemental Attunement with Evasive Arcana replacing Elemental Contingency as a Master trait.

True, the flat 20% dmge reduction will compensate for the losses of D/D, but any other spec will suffer.

i thought
elemental Attunement was the basic skill for elementalist.. oh i was wong :/
i thought elemental Attunement becomes a minor skill… witch only triggers on yourself… and with mastertrait it triggers for allies..oh i was wrong

oh oh never elemental attunement and evasiva.. i thought active playstyle is that what we should play for..oh i was wrong

i was a little naive because i thought elemenatlist can skill in offensive traits and do NOT need so much skills for defensiv to survive anymore.. oh i was wrong

where is the difference between 00266 or max arcan, max earth and max water ONLY for survive?!

i really thought we can skill max fire or max air. and a little arcan and or a little water/earth..

Laraley.7695:

That is just a potential for 20% damage reduction. Mesmers and rangers will be able to completely bypass that. Compared to other classes, ele got nothing.

Given the fact of how easy it is to gap-close and stay within melee range of Mesmers and Rangers as a Celestial D/D Elementalist, I honestly don’t see your point. At most, they can break that 600 range qualifier for a few seconds for a breather if nothing else before you close the gap again given competence and equal skill on both ends. Rather, I only see this as a problem if you’re being outplayed by a better player in which case the fact of the matter is a given.

rotten.9753:

Have you seen bark skin + oakheart salve?

Absolutely, and while they’ll eat one Backstab from a Thief before the former becomes useless (unless they decide blow their heal skill prematurely), neither of these will have much effect at all against the amount of condition-pressure a Celestial D/D Elementalist can apply. At most, a Ranger will be able to fight on point against you for 16 seconds (Troll Unguent followed by Signet of Stone and ample cleansing) before it becomes a game of cat and mouse.

the krytan assassin.9235:

True, the flat 20% dmge reduction will compensate for the losses of D/D, but any other spec will suffer.

Any other spec is not really competitive in PvP.

Velimere.7685:

Laraley.7695:

That is just a potential for 20% damage reduction. Mesmers and rangers will be able to completely bypass that. Compared to other classes, ele got nothing.

Given the fact of how easy it is to gap-close and stay within melee range of Mesmers and Rangers as a Celestial D/D Elementalist, I honestly don’t see your point. At most, they can break that 600 range qualifier for a few seconds for a breather if nothing else before you close the gap again given competent and equal skill on both ends. Rather, I only see this as a problem if you’re being outplayed by a better player in which case the fact of the matter is a given.

First of all, you’re looking at this from a 1v1 point of view. If dd ele’s role will still be a point holder, there’s nothing the ele can do about rangers/mesmers doing damage from afar/ledges/roofs. Also, mesmer is one of the best kiters in the game and a good one will be able to make your gap closers useless.

Laraley.7695:

First of all, you’re looking at this from a 1v1 point of view. If dd ele’s role will still be a point holder, there’s nothing the ele can do about rangers/mesmers doing damage from afar/ledges/roofs. Also, mesmer is one of the best kiters in the game and a good one will be able to make your gap closers useless.

The point of the Celestial D/D Elementalist isn’t just point-holding, though. Like the Celestial Rifle Engineer and the Celestial Shoutbow Warrior, you do a little bit of everything as the ultimate PvP hybrid spec… That’s kind of the point.

Also, with a 24-second recharge on Blink and having to camp staff for multiple Phase Retreats in no way allows a Mesmer to easily kill you. Being on afar ledges and roofs means that a Mesmer or Ranger isn’t on point, and if it’s just you and him, you don’t have to be either until he decides to drop down. I’m not seeing the logic behind your reasoning.

it’s not just about d/d though..staff eles got majorly nerfed with this changed. also considering the changes to thiefs for example the only way for staff eles to still be somewhat viable in PvP and WvW we’d need to invest in all the defensive traitlines while having no chance to play with fire or air magic :/

Velimere.7685:

Laraley.7695:

First of all, you’re looking at this from a 1v1 point of view. If dd ele’s role will still be a point holder, there’s nothing the ele can do about rangers/mesmers doing damage from afar/ledges/roofs. Also, mesmer is one of the best kiters in the game and a good one will be able to make your gap closers useless.

The point of the Celestial D/D Elementalist isn’t just point-holding, though. Like the Celestial Rifle Engineer and the Celestial Shoutbow Warrior, you do a little bit of everything as the ultimate PvP hybrid spec… That’s kind of the point.

Also, with a 24-second recharge on Blink and having to camp staff for multiple Phase Retreats in no way allows a Mesmer to easily kill you. Being on afar ledges and roofs means that a Mesmer or Ranger isn’t on point, and if it’s just you and him, you don’t have to be either until he decides to drop down. I’m not seeing any real logic in your reasoning here…

Do you really only see the possibility of 1v1’s in pvp? Do you really miss the whole point of teamfight? When ele will be the one standing on point, possibly with shoutbow. And ele can be pressured by mesmers/thieves on ledges. Here you go, your trait is being useless.

Laraley.7695:

Do you really only see the possibility of 1v1’s in pvp? Do you really miss the whole point of teamfight? When ele will be the one standing on point, possibly with shoutbow. And ele can be pressured by mesmers/thieves on ledges. Here you go, your trait is being useless.

Because competent teams focus Celestial specs first, right? The last time that I checked, Berserker specs got focused first. Also, you know an argument is weak when it has to decline into a point of over-specific convenience in order to even attempt dispute in the first place. Let alone the fact that your argument is self-defeating by proper team-fighting conduct (read: break glass first), it’s very exclusive and narrow to begin with. I could just as easily argue the happenstance of having a Mesmer or a Ranger on one team to peel said Mesmer or Ranger on the other team.

Velimere.7685:

Because competent teams focus Celestial specs first, right? The last time that I checked, Berserker specs got focused first. Also, you know an argument is weak when it has to decline into a point of over-specific convenience in order to even attempt dispute in the first place. Let alone the fact that your argument is self-defeating by proper team-fighting conduct (read: break glass first), it’s very exclusive and narrow to begin with.

Often you focus shoutwar if he still hasn’t use his banner. Med guard has a high amount of blocks while thief is simply too elusive.

Velimere.7685:

Laraley.7695:

Do you really only see the possibility of 1v1’s in pvp? Do you really miss the whole point of teamfight? When ele will be the one standing on point, possibly with shoutbow. And ele can be pressured by mesmers/thieves on ledges. Here you go, your trait is being useless.

Because competent teams focus Celestial specs first, right? The last time that I checked, Berserker specs got focused first. Also, you know an argument is weak when it has to decline into a point of over-specific convenience in order to even attempt dispute in the first place. Let alone the fact that your argument is self-defeating by proper team-fighting conduct (read: break glass first), it’s very exclusive and narrow to begin with. I could just as easily argue the happenstance of having a Mesmer or a Ranger on one team to peel said Mesmer or Ranger on the other team.

Or you know, you just play the game and see how things are in ranked/unranked when you don’t queue with full team.

rotten.9753:

Often you focus shoutwar if he still hasn’t use his banner. Med guard has a high amount of blocks while thief is simply too elusive.

A thief in a team-fight is fighting on-point and is thereby not elusive. In the first place, tracking a thief through stealth is something decent players can do in the first place. The reason why Power Rangers often sit on ledges during team-fight is because they get focused first.

Laraley.7695:

Or you know, you just play the game and see how things are in ranked/unranked when you don’t queue with full team.

Okay? Your blanket statement does nothing to serve your argument nor discredit mine.

Guys, this thread is supossed to be about the fact that after this patch you won’t be able to use elemental attunement and evasive aracana together so maybe we can get back to the topic?

Chris.5720:

Guys, this thread is supossed to be about the fact that after this patch you won’t be able to use elemental attunement and evasive aracana together so maybe we can get back to the topic?

I’m all for it people can stop throwing arguments of narrow convenience at me that opens them up for such like arguments in return.

Velimere.7685:

Chris.5720:

Guys, this thread is supossed to be about the fact that after this patch you won’t be able to use elemental attunement and evasive aracana together so maybe we can get back to the topic?

I’m all for it people can stop throwing arguments of narrow convenience at me that opens them up for such like arguments in return.

All you do is saying how my argument is invalid and what an idiot I am that I’m considering possible scenarios. All you do is saying how nothing will touch you 1v1. Right.

Laraley.7695:

Do you really only see the possibility of 1v1’s in pvp? Do you really miss the whole point of teamfight? When ele will be the one standing on point, possibly with shoutbow. And ele can be pressured by mesmers/thieves on ledges. Here you go, your trait is being useless.

The trait isn’t being useless. Every time a thief jumps you with a backstab the trait is doing it’s job. Every time you’re fighting on point against multiple opponents the trait is doing it’s job. Every team fight where you’re standing in a cleave storm trying to revive a downed ally the trait is doing it’s job. This is a VERY good trait.

The fact rangers and mesmers can bypass it with strong ranged damage means that the trait, for all it’s power, still has counterplay to keep it balanced. This is a good thing.

Also in the very team fight you suggest the ele also has team members. Ideally if there is someone perched and sniping you your allies should respond by pressuring the sniper in return.

Sorry, Chris, but it looks like Laraley is declining your suggestion for us. Hopefully this will wrap itself up soon enough.

Laraley.7695:

All you do is saying how my argument is invalid and what an idiot I am that I’m considering possible scenarios. All you do is saying how nothing will touch you 1v1. Right.

Rather, you’re stipulating upon convenient situations in which your argument can hold at least some amount of water as opposed to me arguing from a controlled perspective.

Following your own method here, let’s break it down:

Me: Elementalist can easily stick to a Mesmer or a Ranger.
You: Mesmer or Ranger can camp a ledge or a roof in a team-fight.
Me: Another Mesmer or Ranger can counter-camp a ledge or a roof in a team-fight.
You: A second Mesmer or Ranger can counter-counter-camp a ledge or a roof in a team-fight.

…And so on. This kind of arguing goes nowhere and proves absolutely no point whatsoever. For further example, see below for point in case:

Ehecatl.9172:

Also in the very team fight you suggest the ele also has team members. Ideally if there is someone perched and sniping you your allies should respond by pressuring the sniper in return.

That noted, Laraley, as for your inferences concerning me voicing pejorative language against you and being self-important, the irony is that such in and of itself is pejorative and places you above me in the first place (read: self-important): You dishonor yourself in your dishonor of me by putting words in my mouth.