Guild Wars 2

/Forum stealth post bug fix (and quoting my last post)./

People only want Elemental Attunement to be baseline because of its high protection duration, which single-handely makes elementalists viable (in pvp). Everything else about it is good, but not necessary-good to justify being baseline.

Considering that our new grandmaster minor trait at earth is going to give us 20% damage reduction while in earth, plus a free stone heart/ diamond skin, players will no longer require EA to be viable. Also, the buff to blinding ashes, one with air and the tempest defense + lightning rod combo will help cover the elementalist’s defensive needs.

EA will no longer be necessary to put our baseline defense at a viable level.

That being said, EA is still avery interesting trait, better designed than Elemental Contigency, and I’d rather have a nerfed version of EA at master tier than its pseudo-tank variation.

Tempest defense + Lightning rod require getting CC’d and then hit No thanks.

Edited due to no coffee.

Raif.9507:

Tempest defense + Lightning rod require getting CC’d and then hit No thanks.

Edited due to no coffee.

It also blows them out and weakens them, while you gain protection and fury. That’s a massive window of opportunity for you to unload your burst on the poor squishy, before going back to earth and gaining 20% damage reduction and immunity from critical hits. You can then go fire for a lot of blind and fire auras, or water for aura-sharing and frost auras, or arcana for EA and elemental contigency.

Or we could just get an aura of “hit me more” oh wait… we already have tornado…

DiogoSilva.7089:

Raif.9507:

Tempest defense + Lightning rod require getting CC’d and then hit No thanks.

Edited due to no coffee.

It also blows them out and weakens them, while you gain protection and fury. That’s a massive window of opportunity for you to unload your burst on the poor squishy, before going back to earth and gaining 20% damage reduction and immunity from critical hits. You can then go fire for a lot of blind and fire auras, or water for aura-sharing and frost auras, or arcana for EA and elemental contigency.

Again, this still requires getting hit, something a 10K light armor target that has little defenses does not want. Also, I don’t believe that the new Earth thing for 20% damage reduction requires being in Earth for it to work.

Take a 5K hit to gain a stun (Shocking Aura doesn’t blow out, so that’s a no unless you’re talking about using Air 5 on dagger) to enable Lightning rod from Tempest Defense to get a lightning strike from Lightning rod? No thanks. And on top of that, the immunity from critical hits would be gone pretty much instantly on a burst ele as you just need to lose 1K worth of health to negate it’s affect. Even a non-crit auto can clear that out easy.

The other synergy you’re talking about if we’re mentioning Lightning Rod is decent, but the cooldown on Air 5 is long and it’s the most used set up fpr burst ever since the beginning of D/D ele being a thing so every player worth his/her salt will just wait out that blowout and make you blow your load. Your only source of a short cooldown stun is Tempest Defense + shocking aura from the dagger mainhand and the other stuns rotating them through but half of those require getting hit (Shocking Aura). This combo is great for a tanky/bruiser elementalist who can take a few hits though.

For a burst playstyle, better to not get hit at all, hence things like Vigor or Switftness is key for those kinds of builds. Don’t get hit, wait for your moment then unload.

DiogoSilva.7089:

People only want Elemental Attunement to be baseline because of its high protection duration, which single-handely makes elementalists viable (in pvp). Everything else about it is good, but not necessary-good to justify being baseline.

Considering that our new grandmaster minor trait at earth is going to give us 20% damage reduction while in earth, plus a free stone heart/ diamond skin, players will no longer require EA to be viable. Also, the buff to blinding ashes, one with air and the tempest defense + lightning rod combo will help cover the elementalist’s defensive needs.

EA will no longer be necessary to put our baseline defense at a viable level.

That being said, EA is still avery interesting trait, better designed than Elemental Contigency, and I’d rather have a nerfed version of EA at master tier than its pseudo-tank variation.

There’s also a regen that removes 1 additional condition while swapping to water.

DiogoSilva.7089:

People only want Elemental Attunement to be baseline because of its high protection duration, which single-handely makes elementalists viable (in pvp). Everything else about it is good, but not necessary-good to justify being baseline.

Considering that our new grandmaster minor trait at earth is going to give us 20% damage reduction while in earth, plus a free stone heart/ diamond skin, players will no longer require EA to be viable. Also, the buff to blinding ashes, one with air and the tempest defense + lightning rod combo will help cover the elementalist’s defensive needs.

EA will no longer be necessary to put our baseline defense at a viable level.

That being said, EA is still avery interesting trait, better designed than Elemental Contigency, and I’d rather have a nerfed version of EA at master tier than its pseudo-tank variation.

Great, let’s all camp earth attunement to have a worse effect compared to now with now active gameplay involved whatsoever. Great.

Fact is, these changes are only looking at how to nerf D/D while basically all the other specs are completely ignored/hit as much as D/D (or even more is some cases) and most of them aren’t even as popular as the boring cele d/d. Nerf the Cele amulet even more than what you are thinking about right now cele eles will have a lot harder time. No need to nerf the other specs aswell..

DiogoSilva.7089:

People only want Elemental Attunement to be baseline because of its high protection duration, which single-handely makes elementalists viable (in pvp). Everything else about it is good, but not necessary-good to justify being baseline.

Considering that our new grandmaster minor trait at earth is going to give us 20% damage reduction while in earth, plus a free stone heart/ diamond skin, players will no longer require EA to be viable. Also, the buff to blinding ashes, one with air and the tempest defense + lightning rod combo will help cover the elementalist’s defensive needs.

EA will no longer be necessary to put our baseline defense at a viable level.

That being said, EA is still avery interesting trait, better designed than Elemental Contigency, and I’d rather have a nerfed version of EA at master tier than its pseudo-tank variation.

You got it all wrong why people are upset about this. People don’t want to lose either of EA because going into earth won’t give them any team support, which is why dd ele is used in the first place. Losing team support will certainly push a dd ele out of meta.

rotten.9753:

There’s also a regen that removes 1 additional condition while swapping to water.

No matter how good that effect is, you don’t absolutely need it to make the entire profession viable.

The reason why elementalists baseline defense is broken, is because we are the squishiest profession in the game while lacking active defenses that are not driven by stats. While mesmers and thieves have plenty of stealth, extra health/ armor, and free evasion, which allow them to go berserker without worrying about it, elementalists rely on defensive stats to power up their defenses (healing power for heals, toughness+vitality for auras). This means that, in order for an offensively-traited ele to ever be viable, a defensively-traited ele will need to be overpowered. And, in order to nerf a defensively-traited ele, they’ll have to make an offensively-traited ele unviable.

That is when Elemental Attunement comes with its near perma-protection effect. It pretty much defines how viable the elementalist is, because every single ele build is balanced around the assumption that they’ll have almost perma 33% damage reduction.

Elementalist doesn’t needs EA baseline. No one cares about 1 stack of might and swiftness, and although regen and cleansing are fine, they’re fine as trait effects. What everyone wants is protection, or alternatively, another form of innate defense.

With stone heart/ diamond skin becoming free, with earth gaining free 20% damage reduction from melee bursts, with air punishing squishy bursts much harder than before, and with fire gaining free auras and blinds every 3 seconds, elementalists will finally get what they need the most and what EA usually offers the most: higher innate defense in other trait lines.

If these effects are strong enough or not, only time will tell.

DiogoSilva.7089:

rotten.9753:

There’s also a regen that removes 1 additional condition while swapping to water.

No matter how good that effect is, you don’t absolutely need it to make the entire profession viable.

The reason why elementalists baseline defense is broken, is because we are the squishiest profession in the game while lacking active defenses that are not driven by stats. While mesmers and thieves have plenty of stealth, extra health/ armor, and free evasion, which allow them to go berserker without worrying about it, elementalists rely on defensive stats to power up their defenses (healing power for heals, toughness+vitality for auras). This means that, in order for an offensively-traited ele to ever be viable, a defensively-traited ele will need to be overpowered. And, in order to nerf a defensively-traited ele, they’ll have to make an offensively-traited ele unviable.

That is when Elemental Attunement comes with its near perma-protection effect. It pretty much defines how viable the elementalist is, because every single ele build is balanced around the assumption that they’ll have almost perma 33% damage reduction.

Elementalist doesn’t needs EA baseline. No one cares about 1 stack of might and swiftness, and although regen and cleansing are fine, they’re fine as trait effects. What everyone wants is protection, or alternatively, another form of innate defense.

With stone heart/ diamond skin becoming free, with earth gaining free 20% damage reduction from melee bursts, with air punishing squishy bursts much harder than before, and with fire gaining free auras and blinds every 3 seconds, elementalists will finally get what they need the most and what EA usually offers the most: higher innate defense in other trait lines.

If those effects are strong enough or not, only time will tell.

Again, people need to realize the situation ele is in at the moment.

Now d/d ele is a viable semi-tanky build for its support for allies. However, ele is competing with shoutbow who already does a better job. The only reason ele is still used in teams is exactly the protection, which soutbow cannot give (yet).

No one cares about the selfish defensive traits ele will get, because that’s not why dd ele is viable at the moment. There’s literally no reason to take a selfish dd ele on your team, it offers absolutely nothing.

And have you ever played a thief? Having a beserserker amulet and no need to worry about it? Or mesmer and facing a thief?

DiogoSilva.7089:

rotten.9753:

There’s also a regen that removes 1 additional condition while swapping to water.

No matter how good that effect is, you don’t absolutely need it to make the entire profession viable.

The reason why elementalists baseline defense is broken, is because we are the squishiest profession in the game while lacking active defenses that are not driven by stats. While mesmers and thieves have plenty of stealth, extra health/ armor, and free evasion, which allow them to go berserker without worrying about it, elementalists rely on defensive stats to power up their defenses (healing power for heals, toughness+vitality for auras). This means that, in order for an offensively-traited ele to ever be viable, a defensively-traited ele will need to be overpowered. And, in order to nerf a defensively-traited ele, they’ll have to make an offensively-traited ele unviable.

That is when Elemental Attunement comes with its near perma-protection effect. It pretty much defines how viable the elementalist is, because every single ele build is balanced around the assumption that they’ll have almost perma 33% damage reduction.

Elementalist doesn’t needs EA baseline. No one cares about 1 stack of might and swiftness, and although regen and cleansing are fine, they’re fine as trait effects. What everyone wants is protection, or alternatively, another form of innate defense.

With stone heart/ diamond skin becoming free, with earth gaining free 20% damage reduction from melee bursts, with air punishing squishy bursts much harder than before, and with fire gaining free auras and blinds every 3 seconds, elementalists will finally get what they need the most and what EA usually offers the most: higher innate defense in other trait lines.

If those effects are strong enough or not, only time will tell.

Air does not punish squishies more, it will do less. No Air Training and you now have to pick between Fresh Air and Bolt to the Heart.

And yes, I picked up EAttunement for more than just the protection, because protection by itself isn’t enough to overcome the shortcomings of elementalists defenses. The regen also is very important as is the swiftness, but let’s just ignore those too shall we? I mean, it’s not like the scaling of damage done or heals or any of that isn’t done with the assumption that we have easy access to said boons. It should become core (solo version, not the current version and with less duration on said boons) because it is core to how the class plays. An ele with no boons does nothing. The issue with Cele ele is the amulet, not the spec. Take that amulet away and you have nothing but a utility ele. Exactly as it was before.

And as mentioned above, you take away EAttunement from a damage ele, they better be bringing some serious damage to the table which they won’t. Elementalist is viable right now due to a few reasons:

• EAttunement giving party wide buffs
• Cele amulet allowing for a good amount of damage + tankyness

Take the first away and you will have no reason to bring a damage style ele (not that anyone brings that anyway) and no reason to bring an elementalist who wants to do some tanking on point because, well other classes do it better if you’re not supporting your team as shoutbow does. Earth traits are good and all, for you, but are terrible for your team and a damage style ele will not want to really take that as you need to spec in other areas to actually do damage but will have no built in defenses as that’s SUPPOSED to be the boons you generate (protection and regen and swiftness).

No boons, no defenses. Your defenses are supposed to be those boons, but you have to spec to get them. Thief has stealth (not a “defense” per se, but is a defensive trait), Mesmer has clones, Guardian has Aegis, regen and built in blinds, Warrior is just a brick wall and so on. Elementalists have no baked in defenses because the answer is supposed to be boons.

Laraley.7695:

Again, people need to realize the situation ele is in at the moment.

Now d/d ele is a viable semi-tanky build for its support for allies. However, ele is competing with shoutbow who already does a better job. The only reason ele is still used in teams is exactly the protection, which soutbow cannot give (yet).

No one cares about the selfish defensive traits ele will get, because that’s not why dd ele is viable at the moment. There’s literally no reason to take a selfish dd ele on your team, it offers absolutely nothing.

Aurashare builds have a lot of potential. You’ll be able to offer fury, (swiftness), protection and stun/ chill/ 10% damage reduction a lot more often, with the changes in air and water traits. That’s free frost auras, shock auras, weakness and damage. If we scrap air for arcana, that will translate to less offensive support for EA or for evasive arcana.

The old builds with massive cleansing will lose evasive arcana, but they’ll have enough protection (with EA + elemental contigency) to scrap the 10 points earth for the “selfish” aura prot they currently pick, which will allow them to invest on, say, fire for massive fury or blind support.

The selfish grandmaster traits in earth are just a bonus, but let’s also not forget that we’ll get rock solid out of it.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Laraley.7695:

Again, people need to realize the situation ele is in at the moment.

Now d/d ele is a viable semi-tanky build for its support for allies. However, ele is competing with shoutbow who already does a better job. The only reason ele is still used in teams is exactly the protection, which soutbow cannot give (yet).

No one cares about the selfish defensive traits ele will get, because that’s not why dd ele is viable at the moment. There’s literally no reason to take a selfish dd ele on your team, it offers absolutely nothing.

Aurashare builds have a lot of potential. You’ll be able to offer fury, (swiftness), protection and stun/ chill/ 10% damage reduction a lot more often, with the changes in air and water traits. That’s free frost auras, shock auras, weakness and damage. If we scrap air for arcana, that will translate to less offensive support for more protection and regen (EA) or for evasive arcana.

The old builds with massive cleansing will lose evasive arcana, but they’ll have enough protection (with EA + elemental contigency) to scrap the 10 points in earth for “selfish” aura prot, which will allow them to invest on, say, fire for massive fury or blind support.

The selfish grandmaster traits in earth are just a bonus, but let’s also not forget that we’ll get rock solid out of it.

So your answer to being stuck in Arcana/Water/Earth is to… remain in Arcana/Water/Earth and tank up? Great.

WTB burst/damage elementalist spec that is viable in PvP.

Just to offer an example, here’s a possible build for air-earth-water:

Zephyr’s Boon (party-wide fury and swiftness);
Tempest Defense (party-wide fury, swiftness, protection and shocking aura when CC’d);
Lightning Rod (applies weakness to those who attack you under S.Aura, and to two of your weapon skills);
Elemental Shielding (party-wide protection);
Rock Solid (party-wide stability);
Stone Heart/ Diamond Skin;
Soothing Ice (free frost aura);
Cleansing Wave (party-wide cleansing);
Powerful Aura;

I’m not promising that this build will overtake the old one, but I see a lot of potential in it.

For current d/d celestial bruisers, 3-sec blind spamming with fire-water-arcana might become a thing, and make up for the loss of evasive arcana.

And if we still take a look at more selfish builds, fire-earth-water cantrip traits will offer endless condition cleansing, vigor, regen, might and blind, decent protection/ stability, and probably make ether renewal/ churning earth a thing.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Aurashare builds have a lot of potential. You’ll be able to offer fury, (swiftness), protection and stun/ chill/ 10% damage reduction a lot more often, with the changes in air and water traits. That’s free frost auras, shock auras, weakness and damage. If we scrap air for arcana, that will translate to less offensive support for EA or for evasive arcana.

If they would change powerful auras.

The old builds with massive cleansing will lose evasive arcana, but they’ll have enough protection (with EA + elemental contigency) to scrap the 10 points earth for the “selfish” aura prot they currently pick, which will allow them to invest on, say, fire for massive fury or blind support.

This old build already started to move out of the meta.

rotten.9753:

If they would change powerful auras.

The whole trait preview is a big IF. Most of the buffs done to other classes were followed by “numbers are being adjusted, they’ll probably be lower” comments.

DiogoSilva.7089:

The whole trait preview is a big IF. Most of the buffs done to other classes were followed by “numbers are being adjusted, they’ll probably be lower” comments.

Numbers are not functionality.

rotten.9753:

DiogoSilva.7089:

The whole trait preview is a big IF. Most of the buffs done to other classes were followed by “numbers are being adjusted, they’ll probably be lower” comments.

Numbers are not functionality.

But they’re equally important at defining what is meta and what is not.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Laraley.7695:

Again, people need to realize the situation ele is in at the moment.

Now d/d ele is a viable semi-tanky build for its support for allies. However, ele is competing with shoutbow who already does a better job. The only reason ele is still used in teams is exactly the protection, which soutbow cannot give (yet).

No one cares about the selfish defensive traits ele will get, because that’s not why dd ele is viable at the moment. There’s literally no reason to take a selfish dd ele on your team, it offers absolutely nothing.

Aurashare builds have a lot of potential. You’ll be able to offer fury, (swiftness), protection and stun/ chill/ 10% damage reduction a lot more often, with the changes in air and water traits. That’s free frost auras, shock auras, weakness and damage. If we scrap air for arcana, that will translate to less offensive support for EA or for evasive arcana.

The old builds with massive cleansing will lose evasive arcana, but they’ll have enough protection (with EA + elemental contigency) to scrap the 10 points earth for the “selfish” aura prot they currently pick, which will allow them to invest on, say, fire for massive fury or blind support.

The selfish grandmaster traits in earth are just a bonus, but let’s also not forget that we’ll get rock solid out of it.

No, you spelled is the only chance for ele being viable wrong there. However, I don’t think this would be still enough to take aura ele over shoutbow. Fire aura is not that great really, Soothing ice will most definitely be changed (either cd or duration), dd ele doesn’t have a access to magnetic aura unless taking the ress trait, so here we have again a dd ele, which relies heavily on one trait to survive: Elemental shielding.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Just to offer an example, here’s a possible build for air-earth-water:

Zephyr’s Boon (party-wide fury and swiftness);
Tempest Defense (party-wide fury, swiftness, protection and shocking aura when CC’d);
Lightning Rod (applies weakness to those who attack you under S.Aura, and to two of your weapon skills);
Elemental Shielding (party-wide protection);
Rock Solid (party-wide stability);
Stone Heart/ Diamond Skin;
Soothing Ice (free frost aura);
Cleansing Wave (party-wide cleansing);
Powerful Aura;

I’m not promising that this build will overtake the old one, but I see a lot of potential in it.

For current d/d celestial bruisers, 3-sec blind spamming with fire-water-arcana might become a thing, and make up for the loss of evasive arcana.

And if we still take a look at more selfish builds, fire-earth-water cantrip traits will offer endless condition cleansing, vigor, regen, might and blind, decent protection/ stability, and probably make ether renewal/ churning earth a thing.

I’ll try 1 more time. Tank/bruiser elementalists will be (relatively) unaffected by the changes. You will go Earth/Water/Arcana and retain most of your former power minus the extra heal/blast finisher due to losing EvArcana. In return you’re getting Rock Solid + 20% DR + one extra GM. It’s not a terrible trade off and the build will be “OK”.

All the burst builds will not be so lucky (not that they are viable ATM anyway). The extra blast finisher + heal was very powerful for getting those might stacks and heal. Now personally, I haven’t taken EvArcana in years, always stopped at 4 in Arcana just for EA. Now, in this new patch these Fresh Air builds lost their teeth (can’t have Bolt to the Heart together with Fresh Air and Air Training is gone) and will now lose 1 of their defensive options. If speccing into Arcana, these burst builds have 1 useless trait as none of those traits are of any use to them.

• Elemental Contingency – You don’t want to get hit as a burst build, you’re running a zerker amulet (or want to) and you can’t afford to be hit to proc this.
• Revive trait – Enough said. If you’re reviving as a burst ele, you better be sure nothing is around you. On top of that, not a very useful proc.
• Final Shielding – Could be good, but most burst specs go from 25% -> 0% right through that Arcane Shield. I’ve had experiences of going from 50%+ to downed before that shield even came up.

These builds have gimmicky burst at best and were not very strong (read: at all)in the current meta.

Now to top this all off: EAttunement isn’t game changing. It isn’t build defining, it’s telling you to use your class mechanic. A GM that is game changing is Fresh Air or Powerful Aura. THose change how you play. The way EAttunement is right now, makes more sense to make it baseline as it’s just telling you to use your class mechanic. If it were to be made solo baseline with a group version that is powerful, that would be game changing. It makes your class mechanic affect EVERYONE and buff your party. This helps those burst builds retain their survivability as the protection/swiftness/regen are baseline (short versions, not the same length as now) and makes that choice that Karl Mclain wants. Do you go EAttunement:Group as a buff bot with auras or do you take something more selfish as a tank and go Diamond Skin or Stone Heart and Evasive Arcana to be that point holder?

I’m basically with Raif for everything said above.

Just quoting this

• Final Shielding – Could be good, but most burst specs go from 25% -> 0% right through that Arcane Shield. I’ve had experiences of going from 50%+ to downed before that shield even came up.

Made me think to something nice to up burst spec and not tanky ones

Add to final shielding: “if you take damage that would decrese your HP below 25%, you’re hp instantly get to 25%”

=> prevent the trait from beeing useless
=> not effective for tanky ele cause it wont negate a lot of damage
=> make the trait worth for its insane cooldown

Raif.9507:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Just to offer an example, here’s a possible build for air-earth-water:

Zephyr’s Boon (party-wide fury and swiftness);
Tempest Defense (party-wide fury, swiftness, protection and shocking aura when CC’d);
Lightning Rod (applies weakness to those who attack you under S.Aura, and to two of your weapon skills);
Elemental Shielding (party-wide protection);
Rock Solid (party-wide stability);
Stone Heart/ Diamond Skin;
Soothing Ice (free frost aura);
Cleansing Wave (party-wide cleansing);
Powerful Aura;

I’m not promising that this build will overtake the old one, but I see a lot of potential in it.

For current d/d celestial bruisers, 3-sec blind spamming with fire-water-arcana might become a thing, and make up for the loss of evasive arcana.

And if we still take a look at more selfish builds, fire-earth-water cantrip traits will offer endless condition cleansing, vigor, regen, might and blind, decent protection/ stability, and probably make ether renewal/ churning earth a thing.

I’ll try 1 more time. Tank/bruiser elementalists will be (relatively) unaffected by the changes. You will go Earth/Water/Arcana and retain most of your former power minus the extra heal/blast finisher due to losing EvArcana. In return you’re getting Rock Solid + 20% DR + one extra GM. It’s not a terrible trade off and the build will be “OK”.

All the burst builds will not be so lucky (not that they are viable ATM anyway). The extra blast finisher + heal was very powerful for getting those might stacks and heal. Now personally, I haven’t taken EvArcana in years, always stopped at 4 in Arcana just for EA. Now, in this new patch these Fresh Air builds lost their teeth (can’t have Bolt to the Heart together with Fresh Air and Air Training is gone) and will now lose 1 of their defensive options. If speccing into Arcana, these burst builds have 1 useless trait as none of those traits are of any use to them.

• Elemental Contingency – You don’t want to get hit as a burst build, you’re running a zerker amulet (or want to) and you can’t afford to be hit to proc this.
• Revive trait – Enough said. If you’re reviving as a burst ele, you better be sure nothing is around you. On top of that, not a very useful proc.
• Final Shielding – Could be good, but most burst specs go from 25% -> 0% right through that Arcane Shield. I’ve had experiences of going from 50%+ to downed before that shield even came up.

These builds have gimmicky burst at best and were not very strong (read: at all)in the current meta.

Now to top this all off: EAttunement isn’t game changing. It isn’t build defining, it’s telling you to use your class mechanic. A GM that is game changing is Fresh Air or Powerful Aura. THose change how you play. The way EAttunement is right now, makes more sense to make it baseline as it’s just telling you to use your class mechanic. If it were to be made solo baseline with a group version that is powerful, that would be game changing. It makes your class mechanic affect EVERYONE and buff your party. This helps those burst builds retain their survivability as the protection/swiftness/regen are baseline (short versions, not the same length as now) and makes that choice that Karl Mclain wants. Do you go EAttunement:Group as a buff bot with auras or do you take something more selfish as a tank and go Diamond Skin or Stone Heart and Evasive Arcana to be that point holder?

And I’m going to say this once again: It’s not about playing a spec with a lot survability and less team support. That’s exactly what’s happening. Ele is losing a team support and that’s exactly why people will choose to play something different. Being a tank doesn’t really give you as much as having someone who is able to survive on point, heal allies, give out boons, ress, banner…Shoutbow will be way more useful than an ele who is not crittable in earth and has 20% dmg reduction in 900 range.

Laraley.7695:

Raif.9507:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Just to offer an example, here’s a possible build for air-earth-water:

Zephyr’s Boon (party-wide fury and swiftness);
Tempest Defense (party-wide fury, swiftness, protection and shocking aura when CC’d);
Lightning Rod (applies weakness to those who attack you under S.Aura, and to two of your weapon skills);
Elemental Shielding (party-wide protection);
Rock Solid (party-wide stability);
Stone Heart/ Diamond Skin;
Soothing Ice (free frost aura);
Cleansing Wave (party-wide cleansing);
Powerful Aura;

I’m not promising that this build will overtake the old one, but I see a lot of potential in it.

For current d/d celestial bruisers, 3-sec blind spamming with fire-water-arcana might become a thing, and make up for the loss of evasive arcana.

And if we still take a look at more selfish builds, fire-earth-water cantrip traits will offer endless condition cleansing, vigor, regen, might and blind, decent protection/ stability, and probably make ether renewal/ churning earth a thing.

I’ll try 1 more time. Tank/bruiser elementalists will be (relatively) unaffected by the changes. You will go Earth/Water/Arcana and retain most of your former power minus the extra heal/blast finisher due to losing EvArcana. In return you’re getting Rock Solid + 20% DR + one extra GM. It’s not a terrible trade off and the build will be “OK”.

All the burst builds will not be so lucky (not that they are viable ATM anyway). The extra blast finisher + heal was very powerful for getting those might stacks and heal. Now personally, I haven’t taken EvArcana in years, always stopped at 4 in Arcana just for EA. Now, in this new patch these Fresh Air builds lost their teeth (can’t have Bolt to the Heart together with Fresh Air and Air Training is gone) and will now lose 1 of their defensive options. If speccing into Arcana, these burst builds have 1 useless trait as none of those traits are of any use to them.

• Elemental Contingency – You don’t want to get hit as a burst build, you’re running a zerker amulet (or want to) and you can’t afford to be hit to proc this.
• Revive trait – Enough said. If you’re reviving as a burst ele, you better be sure nothing is around you. On top of that, not a very useful proc.
• Final Shielding – Could be good, but most burst specs go from 25% -> 0% right through that Arcane Shield. I’ve had experiences of going from 50%+ to downed before that shield even came up.

These builds have gimmicky burst at best and were not very strong (read: at all)in the current meta.

Now to top this all off: EAttunement isn’t game changing. It isn’t build defining, it’s telling you to use your class mechanic. A GM that is game changing is Fresh Air or Powerful Aura. THose change how you play. The way EAttunement is right now, makes more sense to make it baseline as it’s just telling you to use your class mechanic. If it were to be made solo baseline with a group version that is powerful, that would be game changing. It makes your class mechanic affect EVERYONE and buff your party. This helps those burst builds retain their survivability as the protection/swiftness/regen are baseline (short versions, not the same length as now) and makes that choice that Karl Mclain wants. Do you go EAttunement:Group as a buff bot with auras or do you take something more selfish as a tank and go Diamond Skin or Stone Heart and Evasive Arcana to be that point holder?

And I’m going to say this once again: It’s not about playing a spec with a lot survability and less team support. That’s exactly what’s happening. Ele is losing a team support and that’s exactly why people will choose to play something different. Being a tank doesn’t really give you as much as having someone who is able to survive on point, heal allies, give out boons, ress, banner…Shoutbow will be way more useful than an ele who is not crittable in earth and has 20% dmg reduction in 900 range.

I don’t know why you’re stating that at me, because I agree with you completely. Ele will be edged out of the meta exactly due to that. The build will be “OK” means that its more or less ok, but let’s be real here, the only thing it’s losing is Evasive Arcana, which isn’t a huge deal. I still know that it will be edged out as Shoutbow is already arguably better.

Ele will lose both that tanky spot, and will be further away from the damage spot.

Raif.9507:

Laraley.7695:

Raif.9507:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Just to offer an example, here’s a possible build for air-earth-water:

Zephyr’s Boon (party-wide fury and swiftness);
Tempest Defense (party-wide fury, swiftness, protection and shocking aura when CC’d);
Lightning Rod (applies weakness to those who attack you under S.Aura, and to two of your weapon skills);
Elemental Shielding (party-wide protection);
Rock Solid (party-wide stability);
Stone Heart/ Diamond Skin;
Soothing Ice (free frost aura);
Cleansing Wave (party-wide cleansing);
Powerful Aura;

I’m not promising that this build will overtake the old one, but I see a lot of potential in it.

For current d/d celestial bruisers, 3-sec blind spamming with fire-water-arcana might become a thing, and make up for the loss of evasive arcana.

And if we still take a look at more selfish builds, fire-earth-water cantrip traits will offer endless condition cleansing, vigor, regen, might and blind, decent protection/ stability, and probably make ether renewal/ churning earth a thing.

I’ll try 1 more time. Tank/bruiser elementalists will be (relatively) unaffected by the changes. You will go Earth/Water/Arcana and retain most of your former power minus the extra heal/blast finisher due to losing EvArcana. In return you’re getting Rock Solid + 20% DR + one extra GM. It’s not a terrible trade off and the build will be “OK”.

All the burst builds will not be so lucky (not that they are viable ATM anyway). The extra blast finisher + heal was very powerful for getting those might stacks and heal. Now personally, I haven’t taken EvArcana in years, always stopped at 4 in Arcana just for EA. Now, in this new patch these Fresh Air builds lost their teeth (can’t have Bolt to the Heart together with Fresh Air and Air Training is gone) and will now lose 1 of their defensive options. If speccing into Arcana, these burst builds have 1 useless trait as none of those traits are of any use to them.

• Elemental Contingency – You don’t want to get hit as a burst build, you’re running a zerker amulet (or want to) and you can’t afford to be hit to proc this.
• Revive trait – Enough said. If you’re reviving as a burst ele, you better be sure nothing is around you. On top of that, not a very useful proc.
• Final Shielding – Could be good, but most burst specs go from 25% -> 0% right through that Arcane Shield. I’ve had experiences of going from 50%+ to downed before that shield even came up.

These builds have gimmicky burst at best and were not very strong (read: at all)in the current meta.

Now to top this all off: EAttunement isn’t game changing. It isn’t build defining, it’s telling you to use your class mechanic. A GM that is game changing is Fresh Air or Powerful Aura. THose change how you play. The way EAttunement is right now, makes more sense to make it baseline as it’s just telling you to use your class mechanic. If it were to be made solo baseline with a group version that is powerful, that would be game changing. It makes your class mechanic affect EVERYONE and buff your party. This helps those burst builds retain their survivability as the protection/swiftness/regen are baseline (short versions, not the same length as now) and makes that choice that Karl Mclain wants. Do you go EAttunement:Group as a buff bot with auras or do you take something more selfish as a tank and go Diamond Skin or Stone Heart and Evasive Arcana to be that point holder?

And I’m going to say this once again: It’s not about playing a spec with a lot survability and less team support. That’s exactly what’s happening. Ele is losing a team support and that’s exactly why people will choose to play something different. Being a tank doesn’t really give you as much as having someone who is able to survive on point, heal allies, give out boons, ress, banner…Shoutbow will be way more useful than an ele who is not crittable in earth and has 20% dmg reduction in 900 range.

I don’t know why you’re stating that at me, because I agree with you completely. Ele will be edged out of the meta exactly due to that. The build will be “OK” means that its more or less ok, but let’s be real here, the only thing it’s losing is Evasive Arcana, which isn’t a huge deal. I still know that it will be edged out as Shoutbow is already arguably better.

Ele will lose both that tanky spot, and will be further away from the damage spot.

I’m sorry then, I got the impression you were saying the tanky ele would be able to replace d/d and thefore compete with shoutbow.

@Raif,

I agree that fresh air builds will lose their burst potential. Air training was “changed” from +10% damage to +150 ferocity. That’s 10% extra damage for criticals only, which is certainly a damage nerf. However, it now comes with air cooldown reduction for free. In addition to that, One with Air’s superspeed duration was doubled, and that trait always worked best with Fresh Air. Those changes are very clear at telling us one thing: Anet intends to move Fresh Air builds away from its cheesy instant-bursting, and more into super-mobile, utility builds. New fresh air builds will be uncatchable when they can maintain 66% superspeed duration, with swiftness inbetween.

It’s also worth noting that Final Shielding fits a burst build well. It gives to the squishy ele that much-needed window to execute its combo before it gets killed, and if the opponent tries to rush in, arcane shield will then contribute to the burst rotation itself.

For alternative burst builds, we will have to check out if we can get something out of non-arcana sets. You can probably make a cantrip burst build with fire-earth-water, where you’ll have plenty of self-cleansing, self-mightstacking, blind, decent amount of other boons and defense from earth to sustain yourself, while rolling berserker amulet. Alternatively, air over earth or fire will give us a deadly CC-burst rotation, but then cooldowns will be our enemy. You’ll only be able to rely on lightning flash, earthquake and updraft every 40 seconds or so. Nonetheless, it’s still be a buffed version of its current, unviable version.

But to be honest, I don’t think burst builds will ever work with the base elementalist profession. Eles are designed as jack-of-all-trades, so making a bust build out of them will be very hard to achieve without giving them overpowered defense/ sustain. Anet probably acknowledges this. For a burst ele to ever work, it’ll need not only the tools for bursting (which it already does), but strong, innate defense to justify using berserker gear, without having that defense strong enough to make bruiser/ bunker builds overpowered (aka, not having it stack much with defensive stats). Anet can’t simply do that with the current ele’s skillset.

But there’s always hope for the Tempest elite spec. With a MH Sword and an aggressive, stormy name, perhaps Anet will give us an ele that is designed both for offensive use as well as having enough baseline sustain to survive at melee range (which is to say: to survive at any range) and thus execute its burst sequence without being instant-killed.

How wanna bet that’s what the Tempest will be about?

DiogoSilva.7089:

@Raif,

I agree that fresh air builds will lose their burst potential. Air training was “changed” from +10% damage to +150 ferocity. That’s 10% extra damage for criticals only, which is certainly a damage nerf. However, it now comes with air cooldown reduction for free. In addition to that, One with Air’s superspeed duration was doubled, and that trait always worked best with Fresh Air. Those changes are very clear at telling us one thing: Anet intends to move Fresh Air builds away from its cheesy instant-bursting, and more into super-mobile, utility builds. New fresh air builds will be uncatchable when they can maintain 66% superspeed duration, with swiftness inbetween.

It’s also worth noting that Final Shielding fits a burst build well. It gives to the squishy ele that much-needed window to execute its combo before it gets killed, and if the opponent tries to rush in, arcane shield will then contribute to the burst rotation itself.

For alternative burst builds, we will have to check out if we can get something out of non-arcana sets. You can probably make a cantrip burst build with fire-earth-water, where you’ll have plenty of self-cleansing, self-mightstacking, blind, decent amount of other boons and defense from earth to sustain yourself, while rolling berserker amulet. Alternatively, air over earth or fire will give us a deadly CC-burst rotation, but then cooldowns will be our enemy. You’ll only be able to rely on lightning flash, earthquake and updraft every 40 seconds or so. Nonetheless, it’s still be a buffed version of its current, unviable version.

But to be honest, I don’t think burst builds will ever work with the base elementalist profession. Eles are designed as jack-of-all-trades, so making a bust build out of them will be very hard to achieve without giving them overpowered defense/ sustain. Anet probably acknowledges this. For a burst ele to ever work, it’ll need not only the tools for bursting (which it already does), but strong, innate defense to justify using berserker gear, without having that defense strong enough to make bruiser/ bunker builds overpowered (aka, not having it stack much with defensive stats). Anet can’t simply do that with the current ele’s skillset.

But there’s always hope for the Tempest elite spec. With a MH Sword and an aggressive, stormy name, perhaps Anet will give us an ele that is designed both for offensive use as well as having enough baseline sustain to survive at melee range (which is to say: to survive at any range) and thus execute its burst sequence without being instant-killed.

How wanna bet that’s what the Tempest will be about?

Final Shielding does NOT work for a burst ele. You will get killed before that trait even goes off. That 25% window where it activates is tiny, it’s 2500 HP at minimum which is a simple auto attack for many classes that run zerker.

And the fact you think One with Air is a decent trait meant for any elementalist to take… means I’m done with this conversation. Clearly you either have not PvP’d in WvW or in sPvP in the current meta or IDK what. If it’s the opposite, then I apologize, but we will disagree endlessly.

Raif.9507:

And the fact you think One with Air is a decent trait meant for any elementalist to take… means I’m done with this conversation. Clearly you either have not PvP’d in WvW or in sPvP in the current meta or IDK what. If it’s the opposite, then I apologize, but we will disagree endlessly.

I have never said that the current version of One with Air is decent.

It’s also hard to argue while taking the current meta into account, when the meta is at risk of changing completely with the celestial nerfs, trait changes, elite specs and new game modes. We don’t know what kind of new builds will emerge and dominate the meta, nor which builds will be the best to counterplay those.

We’re talking only about possibilities here. With fresh air builds changing their role, arcana builds losing one trait, and other trait lines getting buffed, we have no idea how eles will fit the new meta, but we do have enough information to know that new builds might come out of it.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Raif.9507:

And the fact you think One with Air is a decent trait meant for any elementalist to take… means I’m done with this conversation. Clearly you either have not PvP’d in WvW or in sPvP in the current meta or IDK what. If it’s the opposite, then I apologize, but we will disagree endlessly.

I have never said that the current version of One with Air is decent.

It’s also hard to argue while taking the current meta into account, when the meta is at risk of changing completely with the celestial nerfs, trait changes, elite specs and new game modes. We don’t know what kind of new builds will emerge and dominate the meta, nor which builds will be the best to counterplay those.

We’re talking only about possibilities here. With fresh air builds changing their role, arcana builds losing one trait, and other trait lines getting buffed, we have no idea how eles will fit the new meta, but we do have enough information to know that new builds might come out of it.

neither the current, nor the proposed One with Air is any talent any elementalist should ever take. The amount of swiftness you have makes it irrelevant. Without access to swiftness.. maybe but it’s too plentiful in the game to make it worth anything.

one with air is actually good for zerker mainhand dagger builds in spvp as it lets you ignore chill/cripple for a short duration. I think phantaram made a note or something about how useful it is but can’t find the exact post.

of course this is probably falling on deaf ears because I suppose 90% of the ele community doesn’t play zerk mainhand dagger builds in pvp.

sorrychief.2563:

one with air is actually good for zerker mainhand dagger builds in spvp as it lets you ignore chill/cripple for a short duration. I think phantaram made a note or something about how useful it is but can’t find the exact post.

of course this is probably falling on deaf ears because I suppose 90% of the ele community doesn’t play zerk mainhand dagger builds in pvp.

Well, he does run it over Bolt to the heart and has been for a while. I tried it, was fun for a bit but not as useful as the damage modifier.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Just to offer an example, here’s a possible build for air-earth-water:

Zephyr’s Boon (party-wide fury and swiftness);
Tempest Defense (party-wide fury, swiftness, protection and shocking aura when CC’d);
Lightning Rod (applies weakness to those who attack you under S.Aura, and to two of your weapon skills);
Elemental Shielding (party-wide protection);
Rock Solid (party-wide stability);
Stone Heart/ Diamond Skin;
Soothing Ice (free frost aura);
Cleansing Wave (party-wide cleansing);
Powerful Aura;

I’m not promising that this build will overtake the old one, but I see a lot of potential in it.

Aura ele will be either really bad, or really boring to play. Looking at only weapon skills, you have a maximum of: 1 aura every 25s on MH dagger, and 1 aura every 40s on focus or dagger. If you combo with a fire field, you can get an extra fire aura every 15-20s. It seems really dumb to make an entire build around this. The ONLY way to get more active access to auras is to play a signet-aura build, but (1) fire aura is trash to build around, and (2) only SoR and signet of air are truly great, with signet of earth being passable (Water and Fire signets have pretty bad actives, tbh). Alternatively, you can rely on getting auras from procs (on-being crit in water, on being stun in air), but that is really passive and honestly kinda dumb. Maybe it would work, but you are going to go so deep into making an aura build, and even when doing that, are going to have pretty weak access to condi clears (b/c cleansing water doesn’t work well with an aura build) or being really selfish (and then you would be better off with selfish d/d). I think they are trying to make a build that doesn’t actually have the active skill options to promote a game-play. Auras make a MUCH better addition to a build than centerpiece (see d/d that has take elemental shielding and zephyr’s boon in the past).

If they really want to make an aura-build a thing, they need to make many more ways to get access to them, and not just a bunch of crappy fire auras.

For current d/d celestial bruisers, 3-sec blind spamming with fire-water-arcana might become a thing, and make up for the loss of evasive arcana.

Fire line is easily the worst. Air is kind of a mess, but fresh-air MAY have potential to get some damage into your 1v1’s. Most likely, you are going to have to 100% tank-up with earth, which lands you with a less-active, more boring version of the current playstyle, and restricts you to 1v1’s.

And if we still take a look at more selfish builds, fire-earth-water cantrip traits will offer endless condition cleansing, vigor, regen, might and blind, decent protection/ stability, and probably make ether renewal/ churning earth a thing.

No pvp build will take the fire-line as currently proposed, as blinding ashes is restricted to single-target. That means you have a 1v1 build, which doesn’t work in pvp ever. Plus, the cantrip trait in fire is just bad as: you can get might more easily from other sources without giving up so much, and an auto-proc cleansing fire is so easy to play around – condition cleansing isn’t good unless you control it. Fire has crappy minors at adept and master-level, and the adept-level majors are trash.

Ether renewal will never be a thing as long as trickery thieves strip stab first. Besides, 1-stack of stability for 2s on attuning to earth isn’t even enough to stomp.

I don’t mean to be a debbie-downer, but I think that a lot of the “well maybe it will be ok” crowd for eles can imagine some specs that are good at first-glance on paper, but fail to meet key criteria for key pvp roles. Most of the ele bulids that “might kind of work” fall into the “dueling build only” role, making them about as good as condition ranger is right now in pvp (hint: its not, b/c while its good in 1v1’s, its trash when the fight turns into a 2v2 or greater).

This whole EAtt thing i just so frustrating. EAtt has never really changed the way you play (the generally accepted test of whether a trait is GM-worthy), it just makes the class mechanic feel right, and i would actually it really is part of the core class mechanic.

It’s been said before 100x but a solo-only version as baseline with a trait for the AOE version is the fairest, most reasonable thing to do.

This is not asking for more power, i’d gladly take nerfs elsewhere to preserve the core feel of the clsss with EAtt but NOT be pidgeonholed into arcane (again) for every spec.

Without it (or something similar), virtually every PVP/WVW is just going to spec earth/water/arcane, just like we’ve had to do for the past 2.5 years.

scerevisiae.1972:

This whole EAtt thing i just so frustrating. EAtt has never really changed the way you play (the generally accepted test of whether a trait is GM-worthy), it just makes the class mechanic feel right, and i would actually it really is part of the core class mechanic.

It’s been said before 100x but a solo-only version as baseline with a trait for the AOE version is the fairest, most reasonable thing to do.

This is not asking for more power, i’d gladly take nerfs elsewhere to preserve the core feel of the clsss with EAtt but NOT be pidgeonholed into arcane (again) for every spec.

Without it (or something similar), virtually every PVP/WVW is just going to spec earth/water/arcane, just like we’ve had to do for the past 2.5 years.

Exactly. If you give solo EAtt baseline, even at a lower duration, you remove the last reason that eles NEED to go into arcana. It will still be STRONG and give you a great option to provide support. However, having innate-boons (the class was DESIGNED to have this, seeing as EAtt was ADEPT for the longest time) would make the class mechanic have built-in benefits and not feel so much like “what is our compensation for lowest heath AND armor?”

That the profession is currently balanced around boons is one thing, but pidgeonholing it completely into boons is another. This will make the elementalist forever countered by anti-boon builds.

That was what happened in GW1, and no one liked it at all. As more anti-boon professions/ builds become possible (revenant’s mallyx legend, the buffs to bring shatter mesmers back to top meta, and who knows what else might come out of new elite specs), the worse a baseline EA ele will feel to play as. That might not be a problem now, when boon removal is still very niche, but it’s at risk of being very restricting in the future. That’s literally asking for the most disliked “feature” of GW1’s elementalist to come back. This also creates problems in PvE’s challenge-motes, like living story’s seaon 2, episode 4 challenge mote where you must fight without boons. Eles can currently opt to trait off boons, but with baseline EA, they wouldn’t any longer.

A much better idea is to seek non-boon solutions that still fit with the theme of the elementalist. Apparently, Anet agrees with that stance, because that’s what we’ve been getting and keep getting. Blind on burning, damage reduction on earth, condition immunity, critical immunity, passive aura procs, passive cantrip procs, superspeed, fresh air, evade on mh dagger. Even though some of those options complement boons well, they give us something else other than boons to push our power.

If an EA-effect were ever to become baseline, I’d rather have a non-boon version of it. But with earth line giving us a free, perma 20% damage reduction at nearby range, and with other defensive options getting buffed in other lines, it’s hard to say if eles will still absolutely need EA to not be broken.

DiogoSilva.7089:

That the profession is currently balanced around boons is one thing, but pidgeonholing it completely into boons is another. This will make the elementalist forever countered by anti-boon builds.

That was what happened in GW1, and no one liked it at all. As more anti-boon professions/ builds become possible (revenant’s mallyx legend, the buffs to bring shatter mesmers back to top meta, and who knows what else might come out of new elite specs), the worse a baseline EA ele will feel to play as. That might not be a problem now, when boon removal is still very niche, but it’s at risk of being very restricting in the future. That’s literally asking for the most disliked “feature” of GW1’s elementalist to come back. This also creates problems in PvE’s challenge-motes, like living story’s seaon 2, episode 4 challenge mote where you must fight without boons. Eles can currently opt to trait off boons, but with baseline EA, they wouldn’t any longer.

A much better idea is to seek non-boon solutions that still fit with the theme of the elementalist. Apparently, Anet agrees with that stance, because that’s what we’ve been getting and keep getting. Blind on burning, damage reduction on earth, condition immunity, critical immunity, passive aura procs, passive cantrip procs, superspeed, fresh air, evade on mh dagger. Even though some of those options complement boons well, they give us something else other than boons to push our power.

If an EA-effect were ever to become baseline, I’d rather have a non-boon version of it. But with earth line giving us a free, perma 20% damage reduction at nearby range, and with other defensive options getting buffed in other lines, it’s hard to say if eles will still absolutely need EA to not be broken.

Thx god there are people out there who can see beyond the end of their nose.

This is why I suggested to make lingering attunement( with some modifications) base line or some other mechanic that is not boon centered, as boons can be stacked for outrageous results…there is hope for community after all…

Just to let people know : revenants are be able to rip up to 4 boon within a 20-25s span for the moment, assuming things are left as they are and the boon ripping options come alongside confusion/torment/poison/burn spamm all in one build which will have access to resistance boon on top…the more you know

DiogoSilva.7089:

People only want Elemental Attunement to be baseline because of its high protection duration, which single-handely makes elementalists viable (in pvp). Everything else about it is good, but not necessary-good to justify being baseline.

Considering that our new grandmaster minor trait at earth is going to give us 20% damage reduction while in earth, plus a free stone heart/ diamond skin, players will no longer require EA to be viable. Also, the buff to blinding ashes, one with air and the tempest defense + lightning rod combo will help cover the elementalist’s defensive needs.

EA will no longer be necessary to put our baseline defense at a viable level.

That being said, EA is still avery interesting trait, better designed than Elemental Contigency, and I’d rather have a nerfed version of EA at master tier than its pseudo-tank variation.

That %20 DR is an illusion, before when you gone to GM level in Earth you got 300 toughness which acted like %16-18 DR now the stats from gear not there (and we even don’t how is it going to refunded with gear stats or is it going to refunded at all).

At the live I am playing 3 signet build with berserker amulet and without having to choose one trait I was getting that 300 toughness %16-18 DR now, while I can give Written in Stone and Elemental Shielding, I have to choose Rock Solid or that %20 DR reduction, which I rather prefer Rock Solid because it was the only thing I could bring for the team fight specially EAtt going to GM now.

And no my build is not going to GM in Arcana, I will not play another bandwagon build.

Supreme.3164:

Just to let people know : revenants are be able to rip up to 4 boon within a 20-25s span for the moment, assuming things are left as they are and the boon ripping options come alongside confusion/torment/poison/burn spamm all in one build which will have access to resistance boon on top…the more you know

Mallyx Revenants also get a free boon removal minor trait in their corruption line, so make that 5 boons every 20s. Up to 6 if the boon-stealing sigil remains popular.

posthumecaver.6473:

That %20 DR is an illusion

Sometimes, I feel like the only Ele who doesn’t use Evasive Arcana and Elemental Attunement (for WvW and PvP).

Well I started to use them both again since I new it wont be possible anymore.

I’ve always looked at them as perks, and not as something necessary. My guild requires them for GvG, but outside of that, I like other things.

If anything, we should be looking at the water line. The water line has more issues than arcana when it comes to diversity.

Vinteros Asteano.1209:

If anything, we should be looking at the water line. The water line has more issues than arcana when it comes to diversity.

Each of the 3 (PVP/WVW mandatory) lines have issues:

• earth: 20% dmg reduction up to 600 range, anti-crit
• water: heal on attune, condi removal
• arcane: elemental attunement

seriously, who’s playing PVP/WVW and not going to spec these 3 lines?

Chris.5720:

Making EA baseline wouldn’t change anything for those that prefer staying in one attunement. While they may not get the consistent boons from swaping attunements actively, I’m pretty sure no ele would complain about occasionally getting certain boons when swaping attunements because of a certain skill that is currently needed.

I very much enjoy playing out all the boons on ele depending on the situation as by playing PvP and WvW you get to learn to use them to your advantage while other classes that don’t have such a wide access to different boons have blocks, stealth or similar mechanisms.

So yeah, I do agree with the suggestion that EA should be baseline with EvAr if really needed being in the GM tier. However, as many others have said before, the duration of the boons should be a little bit shorter and the boons should only be applied to you while a GM trait could make them apply to allies.

I disagree with that.
The boon generating is not the “core mechanic” of the elementalist. The attunements are.
They can be used in fast rotations (as arcana builds do) or focusing one element for a specific role (as pve builds do for max dps) and using the other elements for utility.

If the elementalist “feels wrong” without the boons, its because the attunements (and their spec lines) need to work better.

I do enjoy the active playstyle of swapping attunements and I do believe that Eatt is extremely important for pvp/wvw survival on that playstyle. And therefore should not compete with EA for a trait slot. But it is not baseline for the elementalist and not even for arcana line.

The main issue is that you’ll lose sustain and recovery against the ever creeping condition meta! Just try using one of the EA with contagious and play 1v2 against top spvp conditioners and see the results.
I hope Tempest is decent or you guys are just going to……. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umDr0mPuyQc

Waisenpai.6028:

The main issue is that you’ll lose sustain and recovery against the ever creeping condition meta! Just try using one of the EA with contagious and play 1v2 against top spvp conditioners and see the results.
I hope Tempest is decent or you guys are just going to……. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umDr0mPuyQc

You’re supposed to die when facing 2 opponents, right now double EA + cele amulets allows too much sustain, luckily the healing power with all other stats on cele is getting reduced and EA is being moved to GM. Elemental contingency is not nearly as bad as people make it sound; that retaliation on fire is additional dmg, (200+ dmg for sec at 1800 power) for 4s every 10s, that dmg add up to the total pressure in the end; you then get fury in air always nice, vigor in water and *protection in earth, that one +EA GM and elemental shielding……it’s not possible to ask for more.

Rest is up to player skill : kiting, disengage etc etc

I don’t think they realize how much fun they are taking away by axing EA/EA

Bawi.9541:

I don’t think they realize how much fun they are taking away by axing EA/EA

They don’t care. The class name may begin with E, but it doesn’t end in “ngineer.” If you enjoy getting benefits from swapping weapons, combo-ing fields, having boons crap out your eyeballs, blasting on every single dodge, juggling many skills…just play engineer.

Elementalists are getting made into something incredibly boring and probably not viable. The PLAY-STYLE most like that is embodied by powerful effects on swaps and dodges is being moved to the engineer, and improved by giving them more fields, more innate survival, and more finishers.

If you don’t want to tank, ele isn’t your class. Even for DPS in PvE, it is going to go the way of the dodo. Have you seen all of the insane damage modifiers other classes are getting? Eles are getting stripped of most damage modifiers in favor of passive stats, and those modifiers are the core of the profession’s strength. I think PvE is going to shift MORE towards guardians/warriors, who are being given TONS of damage (and +% modifiers) on top of their superior support/survival capabilities.

Full sentinel gear with Fire-Air-Tempest as trait lines… Called it first!

scerevisiae.1972:

Vinteros Asteano.1209:

If anything, we should be looking at the water line. The water line has more issues than arcana when it comes to diversity.

Each of the 3 (PVP/WVW mandatory) lines have issues:

• earth: 20% dmg reduction up to 600 range, anti-crit
• water: heal on attune, condi removal
• arcane: elemental attunement

seriously, who’s playing PVP/WVW and not going to spec these 3 lines?

I meant along the lines of, majority of ele builds in pvp/wvw run water…and the same 5 or so traits.

Even if they kept E. Att Master tier, I feel as if eles would still run those three traitlines.

Vinteros Asteano.1209:

scerevisiae.1972:

Vinteros Asteano.1209:

If anything, we should be looking at the water line. The water line has more issues than arcana when it comes to diversity.

Each of the 3 (PVP/WVW mandatory) lines have issues:

• earth: 20% dmg reduction up to 600 range, anti-crit
• water: heal on attune, condi removal
• arcane: elemental attunement

seriously, who’s playing PVP/WVW and not going to spec these 3 lines?

I meant along the lines of, majority of ele builds in pvp/wvw run water…and the same 5 or so traits.

Even if they kept E. Att Master tier, I feel as if eles would still run those three traitlines.

I know and i agree with you. The issues are that baseline Ele is too squishy and too reliant on traits + cantrips, and that the key survivability/sustain traits are in these 3 lines, which means everyone will take them.

I note that in all the changes that utilities are not changing, so we’re still going to be pidgeonholed into cantrips for the most part as well.

All in all, pretty much worst case scenario IMO.