Overcharge: What if it enhanced Auto Attacks?

Overcharge: What if it enhanced Auto Attacks?

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Posted by: Swiftwynd.1685

Swiftwynd.1685

Here is a thought that crossed my mind after the BWE1:

I think one reason the Tempest really does not feel like it brings a new play style is that, in order to really change how we play the elementalist, its going to need things that actually give us a reason to stick to a single attunement rather than swapping as frequently as possible.

I think one the biggest issues with remaining in a single attunement is that the elementalist’s power on every weapon set is heavily shifted toward the 2-5 skills, while their auto-attacks are generally quite poor. Couple this with the generally quite high cool downs on the 2-5 skills, and there is little wonder why regular swapping, particularly in PvP, is considered the most optimal strategy.

Here is an idea that would provide an incentive to staying in a single attunement, and maybe creating even more builds outside of Fire/staff that have some merit in camping a single attunement.

Channeling the Overcharge would create a new Auto-Attack Sword chain for every weapon’s 1 skill. This chain would be slightly overtuned, but would only last for a set duration that is based on how long you channeled the Overcharge.

Imagine if all of the Overcharges were normalized to a 4 second Channel, with each second of the channel giving you 5 seconds access to the conjured Sword auto attack. This would allow, on a full channel, for the Tempest to attack with their enhanced auto-attack chain for up to 20 seconds. Switching attunements or using weapon swap would cancel these early, if for example you need to switch back to a ranger auto attack for some content.

Further more, the final strike of each Auto-attack chain could reduce the recharge timers for the 2-5 skills of their attunement. This means that, for example, if you are a supportive Healing themed elementalist, you could camp water and attempt to get as many Water Blade attack chains completed to refresh your other Water attunement skills that you’ve already used.

The combination of taking, for example, the “Aquamancer’s Training” trait plus using Overcharge Water, a staff elementalist could quickly recover the cool down of Healing Rain from a base of 45 seconds down to a potential 30 seconds that is reduced by 2 seconds further each time they complete the auto chain. If the chains finish similar to the Warrior/Mesmer sword chains, it would happen roughly once per 1.5 seconds, if the Tempest can maintain constant melee combat and full 20s uptime on their Water Blade, this could allow faster access to Healing Rain.

Similarly, Meteor Shower would also go from a base of 30s down to 20s, which could be made available very quickly with the auto chain. There would likely need to be some stipulation for Lava Font to only allow one in play at a given time, as the chain could potentially result in double lava fonts.

Here are some ideas to get the ball rolling. They are intentionally over-tuned due to the time-limited nature of the overcharge mechanic, so they should appear stronger than traditional auto attacks by a large margin:


Overcharge Fire: 4 second Channel, full mobility, stacks 2 Might per second, deals rather good aoe damage in 240 radius
(Damage comparable to 80% of the damage that staff auto + lavafont deals, since we would be mobile and that is a stationary damage tool).

For each second that Overcharge Fire was channeled, you gain the following auto-attack chain for 5 seconds:

Flaming Slash – 1/2 second activation, 3 target cleave, applies 2s burning, and deals decent damage (better than Fireball/Lightning Whips’ sustained damage)

Searing Slash – 1/2 second activation, 3 target cleave, applies 2s burning, and deals decent damage (better than Fireball/Lightning Whips’ sustained damage)

Pyromancer’s Prominence – 1/2 second activation, 3 target cleave, applies 2s burning, and deals decent damage (better than Fireball//Lightning Whips’ sustained damage) and applies 3 stacks of Might to allies in a 600 radius for 15 seconds. Reduce the cool-down of Fire Attunement abilities by 2 seconds.

This attack chain would deal more damage than using Fireball, would be applicable for condi burning builds, and would also work well for supportive might stacking builds. The catch is, the duration that you would be able to sustain this auto attack is based on how long you channeled the Overcharge. On a full overcharge, you could maintain it for a duration that matches the full cool down of an un-traited overcharge.


Overcharge Earth: 4 second Channel, full mobility, stack 1 Protection for 3 seconds per second, deals moderate aoe damage in 240 radius
(Damage comparable to 60% of the damage that staff auto + lavafont deals) and pulses 2s Cripple each second to nearby foes, ending with a Blast finisher and 3s Immobilize. Has break bar during channel.

For each second that Overcharge Earth was channeled, you gain the following auto-attack chain for 5 seconds:

Stone Slash – 1/2 second activation, 3 target cleave, applies 2 stacks of 8s Bleeding, applies 2 seconds Weakness, and deals moderate damage (on par with Fireball/Lightning Whips’ sustained damage)

Eroding Slash – 1/2 second activation, 3 target cleave, applies 2 stacks of 8s Bleeding, applies 2 seconds Weakness, and deals moderate damage (on par with Fireball/Lightning Whips’ sustained damage)

Geomancer’s Resolve – 1/2 second activation, 3 target cleave, applies 2 stacks of 8s Bleeding, applies 2 seconds Weakness, and deals moderate damage (on par with Fireball/Lightning Whips’ sustained damage) and applies Protection to allies in a 600 radius for 4 seconds. Reduce the cool-down of Earth Attunement abilities by 2 seconds.

This attack chain would deal good long term sustained Condi damage via bleed stacking and would have a very good upkeep of Weakness and Protection, working for the earth attrition play style.


Overcharge Water: 4 second Channel, full mobility, remove 1 Condition and heal for X amount each second, deals moderate aoe damage and applies 2 Chill per second in 240 radius. Ends with large Heal to self and allies in range.
(Damage comparable to 60% of the damage that staff auto + lavafont deals) and pulses

For each second that Overcharge Water was channeled, you gain the following auto-attack chain for 5 seconds:

Vapor Slash – 1/2 second activation, 3 target cleave, applies 3 stacks of 15s Vulnerability, Heals allies based on the damage dealt and based on Healing Power, and deals moderate damage (on par with Fireball/Lightning Whips’ sustained damage)

Water Slash – 1/2 second activation, 3 target cleave, applies 3 stacks of 15s Vulnerability, Heals allies based on the damage dealt and based on Healing Power, and deals moderate damage (on par with Fireball/Lightning Whips’ sustained damage)

Hydromancer’s Frost Finale -1/2 second activation, 3 target cleave, applies 3 stacks of 15s Vulnerability, Heals allies based on the damage dealt and based on Healing Power, and deals moderate damage (on par with Fireball/Lightning Whips’ sustained damage) and applies 3s Chill to foes, while also removing 2 conditions from allies in a 600 radius. Reduces the cool-down of Water Attunement abilities by 2 seconds.

This attack chain would deal good long term sustained damage while pulling in some good work of keeping allies healthy, foe’s vulnerable, and removing condis and keeping Chill up. Even in builds with little or no healing power, it would still be able to provide some decent sustained healing in melee range, but would truly shine in builds that combine offensive stats with healing power.


Overcharge Air: 4 second Channel, full mobility, stack 1 Fury and Swiftness for 3 seconds per second, deals heavy single target damage to random foes in a 240 radius
(Damage comparable to 120% of the damage that staff auto + lavafont deals) and pulses 2s Blind each time a foe is struck, ending with a 2 second Daze and leaving a storm cloud in the area that continues to use the overcharge for 5 seconds.

For each second that Overcharge Air was channeled, you gain the following auto-attack chain for 5 seconds:

Lightning Slash – 1/2 second activation, 3 target cleave, deals the initial hit then a second hit to a random foe in the area after a delay (125% of Fireball+Lavafont if foe is hit by both hits) and grants 2 seconds Swiftness to allies.

Gale Slash – 1/2 second activation, 3 target cleave, deals the initial hit then a second hit to a random foe in the area after a delay (125% of Fireball+Lavafont if foe is hit by both hits) and grants 2 seconds Swiftness to allies.

Aeromancer’s Tempest Strike – 1/2 second activation, 3 target cleave, deals the initial hit then a second hit to a random foe in the area after a delay (125% of Fireball+Lavafont if foe is hit by both hits) and grants 2 seconds Swiftness, Dazes foe for 1/2 second, and grants 5 seconds of Fury to allies.

This attack chain would be the highest sustained single target damage auto attack in the game, provided the target is isolated and hit by the delayed lightning strikes. It would have a high upkeep on Fury and Swiftness, allowing allies to keep up with mobile foes and keep the crits rolling in.

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Posted by: The Great Al.2546

The Great Al.2546

I like your idea, I think something needs to happen to the attunement (like you mention) when the overcharge is completed or in progress.

This breaks for fire staff though, because the AA is already basically the highest dps in the game. But with some tweaking this could work

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Posted by: Swiftwynd.1685

Swiftwynd.1685

Yea, I’d almost suggest perhaps creating 3 new weapon skills for 1-3, while keeping the final 4 and 5 skills based on your off hand or the last two Staff skills, but that would take a lot of effort at this point to create them.

The only reason fireball is such high damage is the combined damage from it plus Lava Font.

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Posted by: Malchior.5732

Malchior.5732

I like this idea. I unfortunately doubt they would implement all this, but at the very least, I hope they take into consideration that Overloading could be used to make attunement camping more attractive; maybe increasing/adding sustain to certain attunements, pulsing boons, and lowering cooldowns the longer you stay. It doesn’t NEED to be this “giant” spell and could be an actual Overload on an attunement. Sorta like super-powering it, but with heavy drawbacks when you DO switch.

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Posted by: Jski.6180

Jski.6180

Overchargeing is more of a support move it just happens to do dmg to becuse every thing dose some type of dmg for the most part in GW2.

Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
Server : FA

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Posted by: Kaleban.9834

Kaleban.9834

Overload would have worked if the attunements acted as I suggested a long time ago, for example Fire being all AoE, Water being all healing (no damage), Air being single target and Earth defense.

Then the Overload would enhance the attunement’s strengths while locking you out of it. This would force you to make a tactical decision (i.e. Overload Earth and lock myself out of my defensive abilities, Overload Fire and rely on Air for damage) that mattered, while not leaving you totally ineffective.

But ANet decided to make the profession’s optimum playstyle one of stance dancing, spreading low grade damage abilities throughout each attunement, basically requiring blasting through attunements to be effective, especially in PvP. Sure, you can camp Fire Staff in PvE, but that’s neither engaging nor particularly fun, and would get you destroyed in any competitive play.

So the Overload mechanic directly contravenes the profession’s baseline design methodology, while neither improving tactical options OR introducing any new mechanics.

Compare that to Chronomancer, which ENHANCES the Shatter playstyle and Illusion generating of Mesmers, and adds options like Alacrity for skill recharge, Continuum Split for resets, heck even auto phantasm re-summoning!

I mean, seriously, one need only look at a skill like “Rebound.” to see how ANet and Karl are running out of ideas.

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Posted by: Azel.4786

Azel.4786

Compare that to Chronomancer, which ENHANCES the Shatter playstyle and Illusion generating of Mesmers, and adds options like Alacrity for skill recharge, Continuum Split for resets, heck even auto phantasm re-summoning!

I mean, seriously, one need only look at a skill like “Rebound.” to see how ANet and Karl are running out of ideas.

They have 0 ideas and that is a given. Just look at how Elementalist (even with Tempest) is getting literally none of the new boons or conditions introduced since the Specialization patch and in the HoT. It is the only class that will get stuck with the only the old boons and conditions….

Frankly, as someone else pointed out in another topic, the problem with the Tempest is that it is rushed and has 0 synergy with anything else, including with the stuff the Tempest introduces. Heck it even had a style of art in the preview and a name of a storm caller but it doesn’t even call any epic storms with its skills!

I am not even going to talk about how absurd it is that the elite specialization is just competing directly with the D/D cele ele, who is the current standard for brawler / group support, but let’s see:

- Overcharge does not work at all with the current skill set of our MH Dagger (which are poor in damage and utility) or in view of the fact that melee builds are required to swap between attunements constantly to survive, particularly with the need to constantly generate boons and have access to the defensive abilities that are key for the elementalist to survive;

- Warhorn skills bring more fields, with long cooldowns, but the class has less ways of blasting those fields!

- Shouts give auras to the whole group, so what is the point of having Powerful Aura in Water trait line?

- Our elite skill is thrown in the mix as what looks to be a mesmer reject skilll.

- Our traits should have a lot of consolidations between them. The traits just scream that the lack of ideas made Karl split them just to fill the needed quantity of traits.

Back on topic, yes OP had an interesting idea, but the problem is that due to the amount of work this would require it would be simpler to give us a new weapon entirely rather than having something akin to a conjurer style introduced with the Overload.

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Posted by: Valento.9852

Valento.9852

Loved this idea, it puts balance on their hands so they can freely tweak it not to become OP.

Attempts at ele specs:
Shaman
Conjurer

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Posted by: Malchior.5732

Malchior.5732

Make the Overloads give the Elementalist a more…chaotic aura as well. Purely visual.
Like, not a traditional Aura we have now, but for example, if you Overload Fire, you can visually see Fire radiating from the Elementalist(which gives opponents an obvious visual cue that he has Overloaded Fire) like he’s on Fire. Something similar to Dark Souls 2’s Immolation Pyromancy(screenshot); hopefully not as weak as that spell actually is in that game

sigh
This idea got me all excited now, but sadly will never be implemented.
Having an Elementalist go into a “Hyper Mode” of sorts would be so flipping awesome.
However, I think if this were to be made, that we’d need some sort of sustain and/or escapes in each attunement or something. Just getting better auto-attacks wont allow you to actually stick on an opponent or survive long enough to do so.

Attachments:

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Posted by: Leo G.4501

Leo G.4501

My pet peeve with ideas like this is that they are over-designed on the ‘skills’ level. That is, you’d be introducing 4 attunement overload skills, 4 (minimum) auto attack skills, 8 off-hand weapon skills and 5 utility+heal+elite skills for just 1 elite spec. Other professions might get half that (I think reaper gets 5 weapon + 5 profession + 5 utility skills but then they lose 5 profession skills as well).

I wouldn’t mind if some more is added but adding extra auto attacks might be complicating things a bit too much.

I’m always thinking of ideas to add (I thought of ideas for an ele warhorn, sword and bow years ago >_>) and I hear all the problems that are attributed to overloads. I think if there were traits specifically aimed at changing them to be used differently, perhaps that might work? Feedback on these forums is sparse though. I don’t think your idea is bad though, just a lot of work and balance, animation and so forth.

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Posted by: Electro.4173

Electro.4173

I like the idea of enhancing auto-attacks in general. It would indeed help with what Tempest appears to be aiming for, which is less focus on attunement-dancing and more focus on staying in a single attunement for longer periods. That said, I have 2 major problems with your idea specifically.

One is that I don’t think giving you special auto-attacks is the answer. For one thing, it makes weapon choice less impactful, since no matter what weapon you’re using you’d always end up with the same overload auto skill. Which would be boring. And for another, it would be very development-heavy and make Tempest give a lot more than any other elite spec by far. Sure, the devs have already said elite specs aren’t mean to be equal, but Tempest giving new auto attacks, the 4 overloads themselves, 8 new warhorn skills and 6 shouts would be a bit beyond “unequal” IMO. I’d much rather they just enhance the auto-attacks we already have then give new ones.

And the other problem is that the power levels between weapons and attunements are already so lopsided that it would make adding the bonuses very difficult. Like, Fire on Staff is already very good to camp in some situations, and even Scepter / Dagger are useable to camp for certain periods. So you wouldn’t be able to add much, if any, improvement to those without making them potentially OP. Whereas something like Staff Air or Dagger Earth are just woefully lackluster and would need a lot of help to make an attunement camping “strategy” worthwhile.