Guild Wars 2

“Overload Air: The damage of this skill has been reduced by 7% in PvE only.”

Have they fully separated the various game modes now, or do changes to “PVE” also still affect WvW as well ?

they still effect wvw. that means it doesn’t effect pvp.

kitten it sounds like they want to nerf eles dmg more i get that it can support but core ele cant. Did an ele do something to anet when they where kids or something? Its like they have a honest vendetta for the class at this point.

Might have to do with the top 3 raid builds for dps all being ele.

the meteor nerf was well targeted but the 7% air OL is sad and not a good thing ….

OK… a guy over on the WvW forum was able to confirm that the AO nerf indeed only affects PVE and not WvW. He posted scans of the tool tip damage for AO in both the WvW borderlands and a PVE map. The stated skill damage when highlighted showed a clear 7% increase when his toon was in WvW compared to when he was in PVE.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Skill-Balance-Incoming/page/2

well! glad to be wrong.

Keep in mind that they nerfed overload last balance patch by 10% so that’s 17% dps down the drain on top of it’s neutered Meteor storm

And you gotta love the typical response, and it’s still the highest dps. But if that continues.. Eles will not be worth playing because of other classes dishing out respectable damaage and still able to take hits.

Gambino.2109:

Keep in mind that they nerfed overload last balance patch by 10% so that’s 17% dps down the drain on top of it’s neutered Meteor storm

And you gotta love the typical response, and it’s still the highest dps. But if that continues.. Eles will not be worth playing because of other classes dishing out respectable damaage and still able to take hits.

Agreed. Given the exclusive PvE split of the MS nerf in particular, it is clear the AoE DPS changes to Tempest were all based around eliminating excessive use of Tempests in raids; despite the likelihood that almost no Tempests could actually reach golem-like benchmark DPS levels in many boss encounters.

I get that Tempest needed a turn not on the DPS throne, but there were other ways to do it besides taking it almost completely out of the Power DPS Raid meta other than large hit-box. And it looked like large hit box was intended to be nerfed harder but the nerf failed to be executed, so that spot is probably also very temporary pending the next big balance pass.

It also would have not been unreasonable if some of the survival skills that actually see real use in PvE, or the base HP, would have been buffed as a trade off, or that if a difficult rotation was achieved, then a Tempest could still burst or spike into the top 3 DPS at times (maybe not at a 100% sustain rate). But now… Now it’s just… ???

Tempest and Ele were the glass canon before and their risk/reward made sense. Now, their risk/reward is always outweighed by another class when it comes to Raids, and they will join Revenant on the Looking For More/Looking For Group raid bench for probably quite a long time as some kind of “payback” for being over tuned for the last 16 months. They probably will get to sub in for large hit box for a little while longer at least, but that’s about it.

Your all crazy. Ele is still in a good place.

VG: good ranged dps to put on green circles

Gors: still a “must have” 4 of for most groups with thier ranged dps for orbs and gors being large hit box

Sab: having 1 ele to clear kardes turrets is still a good idea

Sloth: aoe for slublings enough said

Trio: let’s face it this fight is about keeping the adds in check. What’s better than massive aoe damage?

Matt: ok you got me here they don’t bring much except ice patch clear but personally never like them on Matt anyways

Escort: everything works here.

KC: large hit box ele still king

Xera: ranged dps and aoe

Valik Shin.9027:

Your all crazy. Ele is still in a good place.

VG: good ranged dps to put on green circles

Gors: still a “must have” 4 of for most groups with thier ranged dps for orbs and gors being large hit box

Sab: having 1 ele to clear kardes turrets is still a good idea

Sloth: aoe for slublings enough said

Trio: let’s face it this fight is about keeping the adds in check. What’s better than massive aoe damage?

Matt: ok you got me here they don’t bring much except ice patch clear but personally never like them on Matt anyways

Escort: everything works here.

KC: large hit box ele still king

Xera: ranged dps and aoe

VG: Ele hasn’t been meta for green circle duty for months. And even if they were, have you seen how absolutely garbage your DPS is when you have to do it? In all cases, the condi classes outperform.

Gorseval: Condi classes can do just fine clearing orbs. Sc/Wh and D/Wh are realistically unplayable. With the actual mechanics, the minor bonus DPS over the condi classes evaporates, and you’re left dying and doing less damage.

Sab: Condi classes can do just fine clearing turrets and cannons. Oh, and killing Karde faster due to being condi classes.

Sloth: Sure, the fight is still playable. But boy the risk/reward feels much tighter. One string of mechanics and you’re screwed.

Trio: who cares.

Matthias: Agreed, this was ele’s weakest fight, and now weaker.

Escort: who cares

KC: This fight was basically designed for Ele, so that’s that.

Xera: Sc/Wh is a decent replacement for FA Staff on this fight, but still it’s such a ridiculous struggle. I haven’t seen enough on how non-Ele comps perform here, but it’s not looking good for Ele.

Cairn: No. Condi here.

Mursaat: No. Condi here.

Samarog: Yay, another Ele fight.

Deimos: No. Condi here.

So Ele went from being worth the risk on 11/11 encounters down to 3/11 encounters. This is almost on par with Reaper’s effectiveness in raids. Everything else is an unnecessary struggle where you work so hard to not die and your payoff is doing less damage.

“Ele is still in a good place.” – these words do not match reality.

Additional: VG (along with Slothasor, and KC) has less armor than the usual raid boss, giving power builds a boost, so Ele is still ok on VG.

Ok is not ok for a class that struggles to survive.. why be ok when you can be chilling, take a hit if you mess up and let condis work the dps for you.

Jski.6180:

kitten it sounds like they want to nerf eles dmg more i get that it can support but core ele cant. Did an ele do something to anet when they where kids or something? Its like they have a honest vendetta for the class at this point.

The ele nerfs literally drove me to play other games. It’s always unjustified and they never buff what needs to be buffed.

It’s like they never take into consideration that it’s the squishiest class, that heavy classes now do more burst damage than us, even aoe, and that most class already roll over us as soon as they target us in WvW.

Xillllix.3485:

Jski.6180:

kitten it sounds like they want to nerf eles dmg more i get that it can support but core ele cant. Did an ele do something to anet when they where kids or something? Its like they have a honest vendetta for the class at this point.

The ele nerfs literally drove me to play other games. It’s always unjustified and they never buff what needs to be buffed.

It’s like they never take into consideration that it’s the squishiest class, that heavy classes now do more burst damage than us, even aoe, and that most class already roll over us as soon as they target us in WvW.

The epi comment alone drove a lot of ppl to new games “blast light fields” and “stay away from wvw doors” because you know the other team can epi there own door or that you can epi doors. Something that realy shows you where they want ele because ele is the worst condi dmg class in the game and that IS where the dmg is being added.

There a major disconnected with the dev for class balancing and the game it self. Ele is the best example of this with lack of dmg lack of strong boons and lack of viable aoe tools working with there own trait line (icd on aoe is out right silly).

Jski.6180:

Something that realy shows you where they want ele because ele is the worst condi dmg class in the game and that IS where the dmg is being added.

I’d argue that Revenant and Mesmer are worse on the condi side where PvE is concerned. Torment and Confusion are really bad in PvE.

Terminsel.5728:

despite the likelihood that almost no Tempests could actually reach golem-like benchmark DPS levels in many boss encounters.

But most classes can’t reach golem-like DPS either. While some classes certainly lose less than others, it’s not going to make so big a difference as to close the massive performance gap that pre-nerf ele had over it’s peers.

Crinn.7864:

Terminsel.5728:

despite the likelihood that almost no Tempests could actually reach golem-like benchmark DPS levels in many boss encounters.

But most classes can’t reach golem-like DPS either. While some classes certainly lose less than others, it’s not going to make so big a difference as to close the massive performance gap that pre-nerf ele had over it’s peers.

You mean, the massive performance gap that pre-nerf ele had on the training golem? Because in real-life scenarios other dps classes were already close to ele on most places and better on some. Now, if you’re not top-level it is safe to assume you’re being outdps-ed by others. Some incentive to learn a hard to play and easy to die profession.

If you even out the maximum power of a class but have one class with a much higer skill cap and/or risk.. . Guess what will people play …. Unless you are a hardcore fan or masochist you won´t play the difficult class …
On the other side if you make expert play more rewarding on a class, top players will go for it and wreck less skilled even more. This happend with celestial d/d.
So you basically already have a problem if a class is harder to play then others.
You will need a rock/paper/scissors system and make the harder classes a bit more rewarding to get this working.

This is only relevant for the PvP aspects of the game. For PvE it’s completely fine for the higher skill cap class to be more rewarding in terms of performance. You can play it well? Congratulations, you’re the dps king. You prefer more relaxed and lazy gameplay? Well, there are classes for you too! Kind of how condi engi is these days, except the part about being dps king.

Yannir.4132:

Jski.6180:

Something that realy shows you where they want ele because ele is the worst condi dmg class in the game and that IS where the dmg is being added.

I’d argue that Revenant and Mesmer are worse on the condi side where PvE is concerned. Torment and Confusion are really bad in PvE.

But poison i would think is king in pve because it counter healing effects and dose more dmg then bleeds. That kind of a blunt problem here pve getting lumped with wvw and even in the forms its throwing ppl off. Torment and confusion are the end all be all condi effects in wvw (though i think poison is better) where in pve its not BUT the are balanced in the same way.

Burning is nice but due to how ele must be in fire to get most of hits burning effect realty locks the class down and makes it only a 1/3 or 1/4 of a viable condi class.

Feanor.2358:

For PvE it’s completely fine for the higher skill cap class to be more rewarding in terms of performance.

Skill requirement is irrelevant. People will take what is most effective and will learn any necessary skill to do so. Any player than cared about optimizing DPS rerolled to ele and taught themselves the class.

The skill requirement card is only valid if the required skill is beyond what can be realistically expected of a human.

Jski.6180:

But poison i would think is king in pve because it counter healing effects and dose more dmg then bleeds.

Healing effects are rare in PvE, so all that matters is the burst. Hence, if you’re going condi there’s nothing better than burn. Except, obviously, if you can apply other conditions along with burning, like the condi ranger does.

Crinn.7864:

Feanor.2358:

For PvE it’s completely fine for the higher skill cap class to be more rewarding in terms of performance.

Skill requirement is irrelevant. People will take what is most effective and will learn any necessary skill to do so. Any player than cared about optimizing DPS rerolled to ele and taught themselves the class.

The skill requirement card is only valid if the required skill is beyond what can be realistically expected of a human.

Because every pre-nerf ele was able to perform on qT level, right?

Realistically, the vast majority of the eles sucked hard.
Realistically, in the current situation an average condi ranger outdps-es a decent ele by a fair margin. I’ve seen differences of 60%.
Realistically, all you get for playing a harder class is a dps loss. Great incentive to learn a new class or stick with the class you like, right?

Feanor.2358:

Realistically, the vast majority of the eles sucked hard.
Realistically, in the current situation an average condi ranger outdps-es a decent ele by a fair margin. I’ve seen differences of 60%.
Realistically, all you get for playing a harder class is a dps loss. Great incentive to learn a new class or stick with the class you like, right?

Realistically you are better off kicking people that can’t play the optimal and finding people that can.

Right, because it’s so much fun to spend in LFG five times more time than you spend in the actual raid. No, thanks.

Feanor.2358:

Right, because it’s so much fun to spend in LFG five times more time than you spend in the actual raid. No, thanks.

Because every other class that wasn’t ele, druid, mesmer, and warrior wasn’t already going through this?

How is that relevant to the lack of reward for playing a harder class? DPS meters are now widely used, the community would shift from eles anyway, because the majority of the players can’t play an ele effectively. The nerf only made the minority who can that much smaller and removed the incentive to become part of it.

Feanor.2358:

How is that relevant to the lack of reward for playing a harder class? DPS meters are now widely used, the community would shift from eles anyway, because the majority of the players can’t play an ele effectively. The nerf only made the minority who can that much smaller and removed the incentive to become part of it.

For ele to play good healing they need to be very tankly and (i guess) that bad for pve due to how aggro works. Where these other classes have build in tanking skill that lets them pull off the glass support with out going high risk.
Now support ele in wvw is fun (missing some QoL for support in gw2) but ele dmg is non existences in wvw. I am not sure why they have not made overload air dmg pve only and different from wvw like they did with epi.

Well I play core D/D ele and every time an Anet Zerker war, or engi or tempest comes at me in wvw I burst them down and cleave them to death and bow to them. Sometimes they get a guild like ai with 15 people and curb stomp me back, Thus resulting to the commander sending a 15 man team to cc and wipe them out. Yeah they hate eles see them as free kills since the start of the game. Ever since the nerfs in 2013 I show them I can still dish it out (wvw only after season 2 ) And tempest is not the golden standard for eles spamming f1 over skillful rotations and soft ccs.

Well you know, it’s hard to balance an ele if you don’t play all aspects of their builds in their respective game types. Let alone play them as a main character to your fullest!

PS they main play only support tempest in wvw on a team.

Jski.6180:

Feanor.2358:

How is that relevant to the lack of reward for playing a harder class? DPS meters are now widely used, the community would shift from eles anyway, because the majority of the players can’t play an ele effectively. The nerf only made the minority who can that much smaller and removed the incentive to become part of it.

For ele to play good healing they need to be very tankly and (i guess) that bad for pve due to how aggro works. Where these other classes have build in tanking skill that lets them pull off the glass support with out going high risk.
Now support ele in wvw is fun (missing some QoL for support in gw2) but ele dmg is non existences in wvw. I am not sure why they have not made overload air dmg pve only and different from wvw like they did with epi.

WvW is a different matter. I’m talking about PvE, where the one and only role an ele has is damage. Technically you can get healing gear and kite at Deimos, but that’s quite the exception, you basically get a solo role in group content.

There cannot be such thing as a support ele in PvE, because every support we can give others give with additional benefits. Aura healing? Yeah, but there are druids. Our heals are better sustain but then druids give GotL and Spotter. Protection from auras is possible, but isn’t very important and a guardian can supply it without losing as much dps. Stacking might and fury? Nah, there are PS warriors who also bring Empower Allies and banners and druid’s Tiger which keeps perma fury on the whole subgroup by itself.

So, in short, we’re damage dealers. We used to be a high-risk – high-reward damage dealers. Difficult to play, but being able to produce the best damage output in the game if player properly. Thanks to the “balance” changes, we’re now competing (and most often losing) in the dps race with classes which are a lot simpler to play.

Feanor.2358:

Jski.6180:

Feanor.2358:

How is that relevant to the lack of reward for playing a harder class? DPS meters are now widely used, the community would shift from eles anyway, because the majority of the players can’t play an ele effectively. The nerf only made the minority who can that much smaller and removed the incentive to become part of it.

For ele to play good healing they need to be very tankly and (i guess) that bad for pve due to how aggro works. Where these other classes have build in tanking skill that lets them pull off the glass support with out going high risk.
Now support ele in wvw is fun (missing some QoL for support in gw2) but ele dmg is non existences in wvw. I am not sure why they have not made overload air dmg pve only and different from wvw like they did with epi.

WvW is a different matter. I’m talking about PvE, where the one and only role an ele has is damage. Technically you can get healing gear and kite at Deimos, but that’s quite the exception, you basically get a solo role in group content.

There cannot be such thing as a support ele in PvE, because every support we can give others give with additional benefits. Aura healing? Yeah, but there are druids. Our heals are better sustain but then druids give GotL and Spotter. Protection from auras is possible, but isn’t very important and a guardian can supply it without losing as much dps. Stacking might and fury? Nah, there are PS warriors who also bring Empower Allies and banners and druid’s Tiger which keeps perma fury on the whole subgroup by itself.

So, in short, we’re damage dealers. We used to be a high-risk – high-reward damage dealers. Difficult to play, but being able to produce the best damage output in the game if player properly. Thanks to the “balance” changes, we’re now competing (and most often losing) in the dps race with classes which are a lot simpler to play.

A half decent ele still does the same if not MORE dps than those classes. You want your cake and eating it too.

Check here.

Eles only ever have advantage on large hitboxes. Other classes, which are a lot easier to play aren’t far behind and even overtake them on small hitboxes. And that’s assuming perfect play. In a real scenario, be it raid or any other kind of group content, it is only going to get worse. Because the easier the play, the less likely the mistakes. Less mistakes mean less dps lost to imperfect play. So yeah… do tell about half decent eles besting the dps of one-button rotations and condi damage dealers. The only thing a half decent ele can match is a pretty bad ranger or guardian, half decent engi or a really terrible thief. All this while being the most likely to get downed of all these.