[PVE]D/W or staff for highest dps?

[PVE]D/W or staff for highest dps?

in Elementalist

Posted by: gin.7158

gin.7158

So has anyone checked the dps difference?

[PVE]D/W or staff for highest dps?

in Elementalist

Posted by: Demented Yak.6105

Demented Yak.6105

Staff has always been better for dps in PvE.

[PVE]D/W or staff for highest dps?

in Elementalist

Posted by: Dinosaurs.8674

Dinosaurs.8674

It depends on the conditions you are looking at.

Most people asking this question assume basically a single stationary target where you can repeat your rotation perfectly. In this situation, D/W is better DPS than staff. In fact, it is the best DPS in the entire game.

However, staff is better under other conditions. Against large hitboxes, staff has better DPS because Meteor Shower goes insane and hits with all or most of its damage instances. At range staff is also obviously better. Finally, it is possible (and not even uncommon) that multiple enemies can be spread out in such a way that they can be easily hit by lava font and meteor shower but not burning speed and/or wildfire.

If I remember right from when I tested in the past, D/W Fresh Air is maybe 10-15% better than staff against “normal” hitboxes, and staff is 15-20% better than that against larger hitboxes. (These are just off the top of my head estimates, don’t take them as fact lol.)

[PVE]D/W or staff for highest dps?

in Elementalist

Posted by: Knuckle Joe.7408

Knuckle Joe.7408

I’ve been constantly getting better DPS with staff at the new training area in Aerodrome, even against small targets. Meteor shower makes an average of 8 hits on a small target, taking in consideration you would need at least 3-4 meteors to hit to compensate for those 3 fireballs lost while casting, casting meteor shower on a small target is NOT a damage loss.

This is all assuming enemy is stationary of couse. On the other hand, Fresh air provides insane vulnerability for your team.

DO FAST HANDS BASELINE

[PVE]D/W or staff for highest dps?

in Elementalist

Posted by: reikken.4961

reikken.4961

d/w is better dps in all situations in which it can stay in range

staff is better dps if both you can’t stay in range and the target doesn’t move out of lava font much

And yes, all situations means even on large hitboxes, though the difference is extremely small (less than 5%) for large hitboxes

(edited by reikken.4961)

[PVE]D/W or staff for highest dps?

in Elementalist

Posted by: reikken.4961

reikken.4961

I’ve been constantly getting better DPS with staff at the new training area in Aerodrome, even against small targets.

something is wrong with your d/w rotation, then

here’s an example of a good rotation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEbPcNa2PC0

[PVE]D/W or staff for highest dps?

in Elementalist

Posted by: Dinosaurs.8674

Dinosaurs.8674

d/w is better dps in all situations in which it can stay in range

staff is better dps if both you can’t stay in range and the target doesn’t move out of lava font much

And yes, all situations means even on large hitboxes, though the difference is extremely small (less than 5%) for large hitboxes

I guess I’ll have to test again, but I definitely remember staff being substantially better against the large hitbox golem. I’ll check again when I can play more tonight.

[PVE]D/W or staff for highest dps?

in Elementalist

Posted by: Knuckle Joe.7408

Knuckle Joe.7408

I’ve been constantly getting better DPS with staff at the new training area in Aerodrome, even against small targets.

something is wrong with your d/w rotation, then

here’s an example of a good rotation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEbPcNa2PC0

That’s pretty much my rotation, I’ll check stuff alter again tho

DO FAST HANDS BASELINE

[PVE]D/W or staff for highest dps?

in Elementalist

Posted by: Snowball.3497

Snowball.3497

I’d say D/W is always better damage.
Only in a setting with zero movement, permanent alacrity and a Slothasor’s sized hitbox staff pulls ahead slightly. Slightly as in ~3%, in a scenario that will never be reality.

Go staff if you need the utility of ranged dps or if you’re figthing the Ice Elemental in the Snowblind Fractal. Otherwise always D/W.
That means even for Bloomhunger or Molten Duo or similar. All of those bosses have a much smaller hitbox than Sloth’s making D/W roughly 8% better than staff.

Particlar – Desolation – [Hs]
World First Wurm KillRaid Sells on Twitch
Origin of Diboof

(edited by Snowball.3497)

[PVE]D/W or staff for highest dps?

in Elementalist

Posted by: Keadron.9570

Keadron.9570

Doesn’t staff pull ahead in damage against multiple enemies or has that changed?

[PVE]D/W or staff for highest dps?

in Elementalist

Posted by: reikken.4961

reikken.4961

maybe
but air overload has a huge AoE, as does wildfire, and is over half the dps, and lightning whip’s AoE is as big or bigger than lava font’s, so I don’t think so

[PVE]D/W or staff for highest dps?

in Elementalist

Posted by: gin.7158

gin.7158

It depends on the conditions you are looking at.

Most people asking this question assume basically a single stationary target where you can repeat your rotation perfectly. In this situation, D/W is better DPS than staff. In fact, it is the best DPS in the entire game.

However, staff is better under other conditions. Against large hitboxes, staff has better DPS because Meteor Shower goes insane and hits with all or most of its damage instances. At range staff is also obviously better. Finally, it is possible (and not even uncommon) that multiple enemies can be spread out in such a way that they can be easily hit by lava font and meteor shower but not burning speed and/or wildfire.

If I remember right from when I tested in the past, D/W Fresh Air is maybe 10-15% better than staff against “normal” hitboxes, and staff is 15-20% better than that against larger hitboxes. (These are just off the top of my head estimates, don’t take them as fact lol.)

thx for the thorough answer. thx all 2

[PVE]D/W or staff for highest dps?

in Elementalist

Posted by: Raven.1793

Raven.1793

I’ve been getting higher dps for D/W than staff even on the large hitbox golem. D/W can get north of 30k while Staff barely scrapes that amount.

[PVE]D/W or staff for highest dps?

in Elementalist

Posted by: Forgotten Legend.9281

Forgotten Legend.9281

I’d still like to see fireball have a 20% projectile finisher chance.

I’m actually kinda glad that the DPS golems in the raid lobby have essentially proven what I’ve believed all along… That fire staff needs more damage…

– The Baconnaire

[PVE]D/W or staff for highest dps?

in Elementalist

Posted by: MadRabbit.3179

MadRabbit.3179

In this situation, D/W is better DPS than staff. In fact, it is the best DPS in the entire game.

We’re averaging in the 33k-35k range with staff in the thief forums. Got any numbers for that? Max boons, max party buffs, 25 stacks of vuln.

Rehabilitated Elementalist. Now, trolling the Thief forums with my math.

[PVE]D/W or staff for highest dps?

in Elementalist

Posted by: gin.7158

gin.7158

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4ft01q/qt_dps_benchmarkstests_for_all_classes/

I think staff still pulls ahead considering alacrity will give more lava font. I think D/WH will fall behind when we consider alacrity since most of the damage comes from AA.

my conclusion so far : Unless the enemy moves a lot, staff>D/WH
staff has easier rotation, on par with D/WH on medium hitbox but superior on large hitbox.

(edited by gin.7158)

[PVE]D/W or staff for highest dps?

in Elementalist

Posted by: Raven.1793

Raven.1793

I’ve repeated the setup from that reddit thread and can still only get around 38k on the large golem with full buffs. On the other hand, I managed to get 39k from a D/Wh run on the same large golem. In the videos, I noticed Lightning Orb frequently not making all of its attacks on the small golem. On the large golem, you can set it up to hit up to 16 times – same with a moving target.

Am I doing something really wrong with Staff to get such low numbers? They were getting upwards of 50k on some splits in the posted video.

EDIT: Also, I don’t seem to be casting too many Fireballs in my Staff rotation. I’m pretty much always channeling something or casting lava font.

(edited by Raven.1793)

[PVE]D/W or staff for highest dps?

in Elementalist

Posted by: Zenith.7301

Zenith.7301

Your DPS can also be the result of difference in ping. In a game as spammy as this one, that can be pretty noticeable.

Look at the difference between a Korean player playing Blade and Soul rotations with <15 ms and your average NA player going at 30-70 ms.

For example, with the video reikken linked, I personally can’t attunement swap as fast as he can. Not for lack of mashing the button, his video just does not have the same input delay on attunement swap as I experience.

[PVE]D/W or staff for highest dps?

in Elementalist

Posted by: gin.7158

gin.7158

Probably RNG didn’t favor you during your test. Maybe try it again? Ping is reasonable reason too like Zenith said, altough I doubt that’s the case since you can reproduce the similar dps number with D/WH

[PVE]D/W or staff for highest dps?

in Elementalist

Posted by: Lalainnia.3598

Lalainnia.3598

How is scepter in air and fire vs a non moving boss vs dagger and staff?

[PVE]D/W or staff for highest dps?

in Elementalist

Posted by: gin.7158

gin.7158

How is scepter in air and fire vs a non moving boss vs dagger and staff?

Scepter/WH → “Its comparable to d/wh with perma alacrity yes, but without you suffer a lot and d/wh becomes better. On big hitboxes d/wh and s/wh are equal but there you would play Staff anyway.” quote from fennec.

[PVE]D/W or staff for highest dps?

in Elementalist

Posted by: Snowball.3497

Snowball.3497

For numbers on S/W I’ve gotten 34-35k while D/W is 37-38k.
The biggest cripple of this is phoenix cooldown. If the cooldown ever lowers a tiny amount to fit in together with the OLA fresh air rotation we’ll have a variant competetive with D/W. It’s also really difficult to play well when both you (due to seaweed) and the enemy are moving.

Particlar – Desolation – [Hs]
World First Wurm KillRaid Sells on Twitch
Origin of Diboof

[PVE]D/W or staff for highest dps?

in Elementalist

Posted by: Lalainnia.3598

Lalainnia.3598

Tyvm for insight and answers. Just a general question that doesnt have to do with even staff vs d/wh but have ppl tried out different builds especially since we have access to actual pew pew dummies and total control over boons and conditions etc. Would love to see how someone does with a burn ele as it always looked fun to me.

[PVE]D/W or staff for highest dps?

in Elementalist

Posted by: Raven.1793

Raven.1793

I found the answer for why I wasn’t getting the same Staff dps results as the video. He was running a different build than the one posted in the guide. I replicated the results, getting a maximum of 58k and overall of 44k using Fire/ARCANE/Tempest instead of Fire/Air/Tempest for an extra 22% damage from Bountiful Power. He also drops Overload Air and allows it to run out immediately before engaging the target.

Another thing he did was cast Overload Fire after Meteor Shower and allowing the last meteor to fall before casting Ice Storm. This keeps seaweed and Harmonious Conduit bonuses up during Meteor Shower.

IMO, Bountiful Power is a bit dubious. 100% uptime on 11 boons is more than a bit unrealistic. Precasting Overload Air requires really good timing on the pull but I can see how that can be useful in some places. Separating Meteor Shower and Ice Storm was a useful lesson though.

EDIT: Need to clarify that I’m talking about Staff dps, not D/W.

(edited by Raven.1793)

[PVE]D/W or staff for highest dps?

in Elementalist

Posted by: Snowball.3497

Snowball.3497

If you’re refering to the qT benchmark videos I can tell you the arcane traitline is not used. You can confirm this by looking that the Glyph of Storms cooldown is 48 seconds rather than 60 seconds. This means the player in the video had the trait “Inscription”, something that would not be possible without the air traitline. Thus Fire/Air/Tempest was used.

I think everyone agrees that doing DPS tests with bountiful power while you have every single boon is more than unrealistic.

For reference, you can see my PoV with similar results here.

Particlar – Desolation – [Hs]
World First Wurm KillRaid Sells on Twitch
Origin of Diboof

[PVE]D/W or staff for highest dps?

in Elementalist

Posted by: Raven.1793

Raven.1793

Thanks for pointing out the CD, Snowball. I ran the test using Fire/Air/Tempest several more times using the exact same skill sequence in the qT benchmark video and managed to get 49.7-39.4-37.8-40.2 on the best run. It’s still about 15% less than what you are getting. Strangely enough, I get pretty much the same D/W numbers you do even though that is supposed to be a harder rotation. My 75ms ping should not be that terrible but I do notice a bit of delay on some skill activations.