Guild Wars 2

I thought D/F is supposed to be a good general-purpose build for all sorts of PvE. I play a full zerk D/F ele that follows the meta spec fairly closely. I have always liked glass cannon characters and do not mind going down a few times as long as I stay up long enough to get my damage in. Though I will switch to other specs when required, D/F is what I usually choose should the situation allow for it. In general, I am quite happy with this build.

One thing I have noticed lately though is that there seem to be a few players – usually encountered in fractals – who play tank/healer/dps and insist that I go staff claiming that I’ll “die less often” and “help the party”. The first person was an outright jerk about it and I eventually quit the group since he would not stop the insults even after I switched to staff. The second person was helpful and sent me a set of exotic cleric gear which I use anywhere dps is unimportant. The third was a bit unexpected, my guild leader apparently does not approve of dagger-wielding eles and is trying to get me to use staff in guild runs. Why is there all this hate and where does this idea come from that staff is better for support? Aren’t the only party support skills in staff water fields and AA? Does this mean they asking me to camp water? Do people really play like this in high-level fractals?

I’d argue staff is the general purpose build for PvE with the rise of EA-PS warriors for might stacking. D/F focuses more on might stacking than pure offensive capabilities. The only fight I can think where I’d say it’s necessary is Legendary Grawl Shaman if your party has no other source of reflects.

Staff is good for support if you’re running either of the two main meta builds (66xxx or 64220) because you’ll have 2 blast finishers (Arcane Brilliance and Arcane Blast) and a constant fire field that provides 3 stacks of might and fury each blast. The former build you add in Ice Bow and Glyph of storms as well as doing Vuln on crit. Lightning Storm stacks vulnerability as well and ice bow is just great.

It’s not about hate, but about efficiency. As a staff Ele, your job is usually to deal damage and provide a constant fire field. I don’t actually play the build on meta battle since I don’t like having only offensive utils and I don’t play with a consistent group. Staff also has an easier rotation so you can focus more on the fight instead of your rotation. (Dead DPS = No DPS)

if your GM is bringing a warrior and you’re running D/F, you’ve got 2 characters who do the same job…and arguably the warrior will do it better while you do the pure damage set up better. For your guild, I’d advise talking to your GM about this and hear his/her reasoning behind it. For PuGs, IMO you should always be flexible.

But I don’t have a cool staff skin!

As Fade said it, you have to get out of the mentality of “i found this on metabattle and i’m following it to the letter” and look (and ask) what the party members that are relevant are running (is the warrior PS? is the other ele might stacking?).

Try to look at the party as an entity and ask yourself how can you help that whole better?

Thanks for the feedback. It makes sense that might and fury from 100% fire field uptime can be counted as support. Somehow I doubt that non-zerker pugs are thinking of this.

I am definitely not following the meta blindly. I only stated that my own setup is close to meta. I use Lava Tomb because I know I’m likely to go down a few times in a pug. Likewise, I often swap Stone Splinters for Renewing Stamina. I also frequently use either Arcane Shield or Glyph of Storms instead of Ice Bow. My signet is nearly always Air and not Fire because of how often my survival depends on being able to kite. There aren’t many variations if what you want to play is a fresh air ele. You might say that I build to play zerker in a pug.

By the way, my guildmaster mains ele and was on a necro when she complained about my choice of weapons. We have a warrior but I don’t think he’s PS since I almost never have a full might stack despite being in melee most of the time.

Perhaps my problem is that I am trying too hard to accommodate non-zerkers. Some of us like playing glass dps.

It’s definitely rough if you run Berserker in a non-Berserker group. Most cases they just don’t have the kind of DPS to burn through encounters fast enough and then you start having to eat mechanics that you aren’t prepared to continuously take. Most cases they probably just see you dying a lot and just assume you’re bad when in fact it’s just you’re tooled for a different style of group.

Just find the right kind of group that you want to play with and supports the way you want to play and you should be set.

Staff ele can’t be glass dps? And how do you know the pugs are non-zerkers?

To me, it sounds like you are too salty about others wanting you to play something else then what you want.

You can either stay d/f and find a group that doesn’t care or switch to want they want. Contrary to want you are trying to imply here, it’s zerker groups that ask me to switch weps most often.

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Staff ele can’t be glass dps? And how do you know the pugs are non-zerkers?

To me, it sounds like you are too salty about others wanting you to play something else then what you want.

You can either stay d/f and find a group that doesn’t care or switch to want they want. Contrary to want you are trying to imply here, it’s zerker groups that ask me to switch weps most often.

The problem with that is that D/F zerker ele is one of the most powerful build anyway. That make no sense to attack a D/F ele, since it does more damage than Guardian, Warrior, Mesmer and Necro (around the same damage as a Ranger). I can understand if there is already a Warrior PS, but otherwise.

Thaddeus.4891:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Staff ele can’t be glass dps? And how do you know the pugs are non-zerkers?

To me, it sounds like you are too salty about others wanting you to play something else then what you want.

You can either stay d/f and find a group that doesn’t care or switch to want they want. Contrary to want you are trying to imply here, it’s zerker groups that ask me to switch weps most often.

The problem with that is that D/F zerker ele is one of the most powerful build anyway. That make no sense to attack a D/F ele, since it does more damage than Guardian, Warrior, Mesmer and Necro (around the same damage as a Ranger). I can understand if there is already a Warrior PS, but otherwise.

This, I mean even with a PS war having swirling winds ready as well as things like ring of earth or magnetic wave all right at your finger tips without getting stuck in the wrong attunement… there’s nothing to complain about. Especially when many fights are doable with the majority of it being channeling Ice Bow/Glyph of Storms, then quick swap to whips to finish it off. The beauty of D/F is that it’s flexible and can do well in any situation, that’s not quite the same for staff or scepter+LH builds which are more specialized (no moving targets with staff, and LH dependancy on scepter just for example). DF may not be ideal in many situations but it’s never a bad option. And, it’s the most fun so…

Jerus.4350:

Thaddeus.4891:

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Staff ele can’t be glass dps? And how do you know the pugs are non-zerkers?

To me, it sounds like you are too salty about others wanting you to play something else then what you want.

You can either stay d/f and find a group that doesn’t care or switch to want they want. Contrary to want you are trying to imply here, it’s zerker groups that ask me to switch weps most often.

The problem with that is that D/F zerker ele is one of the most powerful build anyway. That make no sense to attack a D/F ele, since it does more damage than Guardian, Warrior, Mesmer and Necro (around the same damage as a Ranger). I can understand if there is already a Warrior PS, but otherwise.

This, I mean even with a PS war having swirling winds ready as well as things like ring of earth or magnetic wave all right at your finger tips without getting stuck in the wrong attunement… there’s nothing to complain about. Especially when many fights are doable with the majority of it being channeling Ice Bow/Glyph of Storms, then quick swap to whips to finish it off. The beauty of D/F is that it’s flexible and can do well in any situation, that’s not quite the same for staff or scepter+LH builds which are more specialized (no moving targets with staff, and LH dependancy on scepter just for example). DF may not be ideal in many situations but it’s never a bad option. And, it’s the most fun so…

While D/F itself is flexible in solo and pug situations, it’s not so much in organized groups. If the group has a Mesmer and/or a guardian, their reflects are better than Swirling Winds. It can be a bad option if the two major things it brings (might/fury stacking and projectile destruction) are brought by other players who do it better. (Again in an organized group).

I’d argue that Staff is just as flexible if not more so because it can work over two game types very well (PvE and WvW). It’s much more reliant on traits than D/F, but at 80 it’s not an issue. It’s also a bit easier to level with as D/F does need FA in order to be interesting.

Again, not optimal in many situations, but never bad.

Fade.1743:

While D/F itself is flexible in solo and pug situations, it’s not so much in organized groups.

All i’m saying is that on the list of things that you don’t want in your run, D/F is at the bottom of it. A lot of stuff need to be checked before the presence of D/F ele if you want to optimize your group.

And we are talking about pugs here don’t we? In that case, there is zero reason to ask someone to not use D/F Ele.

Thaddeus.4891:

Fade.1743:

While D/F itself is flexible in solo and pug situations, it’s not so much in organized groups.

All i’m saying is that on the list of things that you don’t want in your run, D/F is at the bottom of it. A lot of stuff need to be checked before the presence of D/F ele if you want to optimize your group.

And we are talking about pugs here don’t we? In that case, there is zero reason to ask someone to not use D/F Ele.

Absolutely! The only reason I don’t play it is being unable to pull off the combo and feel like I’m not doing my job. That’s the only reason I hesitate to recommend D/F in PuGs. Other than that, you’re right. It’s a fantastic build that can be tweaked for higher level gameplay and in the hands of a skilled player can do wonderful things. (Do note I’ve only done one 30+ Fractal before, so I don’t speak from experience in that)

I recommend Staff over it for new players because you can more easily get into the class and learn how to play it. While it’s fun to feel like the Archmage of the entire freakin’ multiverse, D/F offers something completely different that takes barely any change in gear and traits to swap. (Mostly, just swapping weapons)

Aye tis true staff rotation is easy, DF… not so much, but a lot more fun once you learn it

D/F ele isn’t bad, it just has worse potential than staff ele does when played at a high level. Sometimes actually D/F can be better than staff in solo settings depending on whether or not you can meteor shower/ice bow off cooldown without the utility of swirling winds, but as far as groups are concerned the vast majority of the time the better choice is for warrior to run PS in fractals and eles to use staff to reap the benefits. It’s not always the case, but yeah.

However it doesn’t sound like the group you were in was even aware of this, OP. It sounds like they were just jerks flaming you for not conforming to their inept standards.

Don’t worry about it. D/F is not a bad setup.

The first person just sounded like a jerk, id put him on block if you havent already.

The second sounded nicer but was entirely wrong, cleric staff ele is not ideal in fractals by any means. If they want to run a specific tank/dps/healer group to do fractals, they can (even though itd be slow as kitten), but expecting a pug to spec according to their wishes is silly unless they asked you when you joined the group (and even then itd still be silly, but at least more reasonable)

And the third one might have had a point if he was talking about a static guild group (namely one that has enough might/reflects so you dont need to run d/f), but if he means eles should never ever run dagger builds regardless of the situation, it might be time to find a new guild.

Staff has its merits, especially in organized groups, but I always run d/f in pugs (unless its something like urban or reactor where you want staff for the range), and never had a problem. Just sounds like bad luck on your part, run d/f all you want and dont worry about it.

Just step up your game and wow them with your super fluid rotation of D/F. However, sometimes, in Fractals, staff is just better (and easier). So consider swapping if you risk dying to play D/F.

Doesnt make sense to me. I go D/F if i want an easier time. I used to exclusively D/F in fractals. Now that we run phalanx more i stay staff for most stuff. But D/F is always the fall back build. Lose a little damage, gain a ton of versatility and survivability.

Staff ele has finally emerged as the top DPS weapon/build in meta groups it should have been since the blasting staff buff. As with any “standard” way of doing things, there’s going to be people who absolutely fuss and whine when you’re not meeting their visual expectations. Frankly the best tip for anyone in this thread is to simply run what you’re most proficient at, as ele builds are all highly dependent on the user. A top tier d/f ele will EASILY out perform a merely competent staff ele, despite staff being higher DPS on paper, simply because of their efficiency with the build.

Stay practical rather than theoretical. Just state you can’t do staff as well as D/F and that’s that. A well played ele is a well played ele and the few extra seconds it takes to kill a boss just doesn’t freakin’ matter. If someone else just can’t stand you playing what you’re good at it’s their problem and they need to adjust their own comfort level or you both need to part ways. It’s as simple as that.

I acknowledge Fresh Air builds for what they are, despite loathing them greatly for reasons I won’t get in to. Realizing they are valid despite my personal opinion has made it immensely easier to just get over it. I had to do the same with shatter builds and stealth in general, though I still find myself still cursing stealth on occasion. And lag.

spoj.9672:

Doesnt make sense to me. I go D/F if i want an easier time. I used to exclusively D/F in fractals. Now that we run phalanx more i stay staff for most stuff. But D/F is always the fall back build. Lose a little damage, gain a ton of versatility and survivability.

Well, with pugs, there are some encounters just easier with staff: Urban Battleground, Thaumanova, all the champs and golems at Uncatergorized, Mossman, etc

Urban battlegrounds and thaumanova maybe. But the rest I would always go D/F for the extra projectile defence and invuln.

Most pug would range Mossman and fail to cleave the wolves. At some points it would be incredibly painful trying to keep the D/F rotation with projectile defense up or not. On the other hand, it’s much easier to dodge the Flying Dagger while kiting the wolves into our AoE. For the Champ room, noob ele get one shot easily trying to melee recklessly. While it is all nice and cool to play D/F, if they cannot dodge the fire shaman’s throw, aoe, rush and the ettin’s cleave then better stay at safe range to have a clear view of the tells. For Old Tom, it is meaningless to try stacking behind Earth golem if the dps is lacking. The pull is unlockable and the bouncing projectile has long cd. If you have to recharge the batteries multiple time then staff is a solid choice to range the boss. Last encounter would be the Molten Boss duo which pretty much doesn’t need any explanation. My personal favorite use of staff would be at Cliffside even though it doesn’t necessarily make the encounter any easier.

By the way, which trait distribution do you use for staff on fractals? 62222,64202…?

It depends on the fight. I’d say the base version is 64×2x (exception is Mai Trin). If you can hit at close range 64220, if you can’t 64022. The only time I’d run 62222 is if I was attacking an object at close range. (Think like a world boss, or CoF2 final boss)

Legendary Grawl Shaman and Mai Trin should be more…personalized and given a bit more defense and cleansing power, but that’s just how I try to play.

D/F is a fun and effective build in high level fractals, good overall weapon set. I do agree that staff is generally better with a phalanx warrior though if the boss is kept still (coordinated groups), but in a lot of pug groups since bosses are moving you may be better off going d/f anyway. As a lot of people here have already said, d/f isn’t a bad set up at all, don’t feel bad for using it

eats popcorn as an ele that runs D/F literally everywhere

eats camenbert and drinks bordeaux as french ele that runs D/F literally everywhere

I run staff, because it is more general purpose and adaptable. I keep the same gear setup of ascended celestial armor, ascended berseker trinkets and ascended berseker staff and alternate between 6/6/2 when I want to focus on camping staff for DPS or a 2/6/6 when I want to focus on support via healing, boons, conditional removal and okay dps. It’s viable and I am able to hold my own in both WvW and PvE without having to keep alternate gear sets.

Staff excels in support, because it has access to a variety of combo fields. But those only really matter if you are in a group that actually uses blast finishers when you lay them down. Most of the time in pugs, it’s just me blasting my own fields for area might, swiftness or healing.

Staff is better in almost every way in the current meta provided you are not soloing and have a decent group. The whole idea of D/F is to sacrifice DPS for more might stacking and utility. These usually are not needed in a group with other heavy utility classes like Guardian and Mesmer that you find in Fractals and might stacking that can be better off loaded to an EA/PS Warrior. Thus the superior option is to run Staff.

The only time I ever use D/F (6/6/2/0/0) is on Mia Trin in Fractals. The rest of the time you can use an Earth Golem or Frozen Ground to keep bosses from moving around too much and walking out of your Lava Font and Staff DPS as was before mentioned.

Don’t you take a pretty substantial dps loss for half a dozen seconds or so when you swap to earth/water/air to use that utility in combat though? Not saying Staff isn’t awesome and far more likely to be the optimal choice, it certainly is. Just saying I think DF is more consistent on it’s output and always a good option, not best but good. And in weaker groups that utility is pretty dang awesome.

Yes you would, however, if your managing your rotations correctly you would have no issue with this at all. Chill you would apply at the start of a fight and swap into fire. Eruption in Earth and Ice Spike are actually good damage for their cast time. Since you can swap into their respective attunement, cast them, go into air and cast Lightning Storm → Icebow (Ice Storm) then back to Fire you will not lose nearly any DPS as Fire would be off cooldown by this time and you would continue business as usual.

Even if you weren’t doing good rotations the burst from Staff on trash mobs and most bosses would easily outshine D/F and Swirling Winds is quite frankly trash compared to the other reflects provided by other members of your party. Your much better off focusing on DPS which Elementalist is good at.

That’s assuming perfect conditions though isn’kitten What if you have a longer fight and 2 Ele’s and you want to use the earth Ele half way through, having already blown your lightning storm. What if you take too long to get to the transition on Grawl shaman and need to apply a long chill at the transition? /shrug, again, just saying I don’t think you lose nearly as much outside of optimal conditions as people imply.

Perfect conditions with a well trained group, sure. Likely to see that in a pug… no.

And again, my point is not that DF is better than staff, just that it’s not something any PUG group should ever scoff at, seen that swirling come in handy far too many times when fights take longer than they should or someone fails/forgets their reflect.