Guild Wars 2

Today I reached my 100th PvP game of Tempest and I would like to analyze its new mechanic (overloading). I’ll write about the relation between cost and reward.

Cost

1- Wait 5 seconds in an attunement:
This wait-time ruins your attunement rotation. Being an elementalist you don’t want to stay in an attunement more than 3-3.5 seconds as you want to cicle fast in order to get more healing, boons, damage and condition cleansing. At the same time the autoattacks are usually underwhelming which means that you are basically going to waste a couple of seconds every time you prepare to overload.

2- Channel the overload during 4 more seconds:
This makes you extremely vulnerable to any kind of burst damage, condition and CC.

3-While overloading you are still locked in the same attunement:
Since you had to wait for 5 seconds earlier and now you are channeling for 4, all your other attunements are recharged already (5+4=9 is the attunement recharge).
Being forced to channel means that you are being extremely innefficient as you are wasting a whole rotation of boons, healing, condition cleanse and damage.

4- The overloaded attunement becomes locked for 20 seconds
20 seconds is the 200% of the base recharge rate which is huge. Not only you ruined your current attunement rotation but you are also paying with the following one.

We lost 1 rotation and made another one inefficient and therefore we are losing a ton of value (boons, damage, healing, condition cleanse). At this point you will be thinking that the reward is going to be insane. I have bad news.

Reward

1- Fire: Pulses burning and 5-6 ish might. You can get more might if you decide to stand in the small area and not move (root yourself, more drawbacks to get the full value).
2- Water: Cleanses conditions and heals.
3- Air: Deals damage. Applies vulnerability.
4- Earth: Grants protection, cripples, bleeds, immobilizes.

Cost-Reward
1- Fire: This ability should never be casted as the cost is way too high for just 5 might. You could get way more than that by doing your natural rotation. The damage is underwhelming.

2- Water: although this one may seem good, the fact that you lock yourself out of water for 20 seconds means that you will die in the next rotation. You might heal more now, but in the long run you will be losing.

3- Air: The cost is super high but at least the damage is great. Maybe the only barely usable overload.

4- Earth: Again decent, but the cost is so high it’s not worth casting.

Overall we have mediocre and average effects at an incredibly high cost. Therefore, most overloads never see any play.

Possible fixes

Two directions could be taken

a) Increase the reward: I think this would be the most interesting one. High cost high reward gameplay is usually the most enjoyable in PvP games.
If this direction is followed, only fire, water and earth need to be buffed. Air is already OKish.

b) Reduce the cost. This would require less effort by anet than option a). I will brainstorm a few suggestions (only one should be taken)

- You can swap attunements while channeling the overload (nice synergy with traits such as rock solid and elemental attunement. Probably the natural option)

- You are not forced to wait 5 seconds before starting the channel. This is a good option as it would make the stunbreak on overloads actually usable. However overloads would then become a consequence to CC, rather than a proactive play.

- Don’t punish the tempest with extended cooldowns after overloading. Overload can still have the 20 sec recharge, but attunement shouldn’t.

- Make harmonious conduit (1 stack of stability when overloading) baseline, minor or adept tier. Right now it is competing with Invigorating torrents which is too good too pass.

- Change “Rebound!” to “Your following Overload channel is instant”

- Change “Superior rune of the tempest” bonus. It now grants stability and protection while overloading (or when you use a shout – “feel the burn” synergy)

Marcos.3690:

1- Wait 5 seconds in an attunement:
This wait-time ruins your attunement rotation. Being an elementalist you don’t want to stay in an attunement more than 3-3.5 seconds as you want to cicle fast in order to get more healing, boons, damage and condition cleansing. At the same time the autoattacks are usually underwhelming which means that you are basically going to waste a couple of seconds every time you prepare to overload.

Have you thought of a way to make this waiting for efficient? There are some utilities that allows you to have a completely different set of weapon skill without having to swap attunements.

Alekt.5803:

Marcos.3690:

1- Wait 5 seconds in an attunement:
This wait-time ruins your attunement rotation. Being an elementalist you don’t want to stay in an attunement more than 3-3.5 seconds as you want to cicle fast in order to get more healing, boons, damage and condition cleansing. At the same time the autoattacks are usually underwhelming which means that you are basically going to waste a couple of seconds every time you prepare to overload.

Have you thought of a way to make this waiting for efficient? There are some utilities that allows you to have a completely different set of weapon skill without having to swap attunements.

Are you talking about weapon conjures? Because weapon conjures are probably the least useful and most underwhelming utilities on Ele in general, I mean, why would you take lightning hammer for instance, when you can take mistform (that makes you survive burst, safe stomp, safe revive, is useful for waiting on cooldowns), lightning flash, even lesser glyph of elementals, ..? Conjure weapons are useless even in PvE now, since the icebow nerfs and everyone knows it, but it will take time before Anet decides to find a way to make them work in all modes (could never happen).

I would take a Earth Shield because it has an AoE unbockable pull, while also having a cleaving daze + gap closer on a 12 seconds cooldown. The auto attack itself is pretty good.

Your analysis is spot-on. But this is the exact same analysis we were giving by the bucketful after BWE3 and still virtually nothing changed.

BTW I like the idea of Rebound just recharging your overload. Simple. Makes overloads more usable in a pinch as a stunbreak. It should probably have a lower cool-down too.

There has been some talk of a balance patch prior to the start of the PVP ranked season. So maybe they will consider fixing Tempest then? But make no mistake, there are big problems with the entire spec, not just overloads. Warhorn is one of the least effective weapons in the game and shouts in general are meh.

You can Run Fresh air, overload air and then your crit from the overload will reset the CD on attune swap to Air after you leave it.

So you can overload Air, Leave Air the crit will happen, Then swap back into air

What it we just did away with the chanel time? Would that be enough of a buff to make them usable, or would the interruption to our standard rotations still be too high a cost?

You can Run Fresh air, overload air and then your crit from the overload will reset the CD on attune swap to Air after you leave it.

So you can overload Air, Leave Air the crit will happen, Then swap back into air

True, but then the 5-second wait to Overload is even more punishing.

Overload experience of today:

About to fight a reaper, start overloading air, noticed I am barely doing any damage even if I am running a marauder amulet with a dmg build, interrupted, then BAM, 12k Gravedigger —> dead

Went to play Chronomancer…
Overloads are such a bad design.

I agree with your suggestions btw.

Gravedigger is so slow… Easy to dodge. BUT in overloads you are discouraged from dodging.

Maybe a bit of topic but I’ve reached pretty much identical conclusions whilst trying tempest solo in dungeons. The recharge cost is too high and you rarely have the chance to finish casting. More like discharge than overcharge

A reduced/removed casting time seems like a must, as for the mechanic itself I had high cost/high reward idea bit similar to OPs

Overcharges could give something for the attunements rather than a separate buff at the cost of longer cooldown. For example, overcharging air could give quickness, super speed and refresh the cd of last attunement used, including its abilities. Something along those lines.

Things that should be done:

• Can swap attunement while Overloading. What ANet wants to prevent is that you cast one Overload, then switch to another attunement. When the first Overload finished, your new attunement is almost done having Overload charged, and you can keep Overloading over and over. We can fix that by having Overload put all other attunement Overload to kitten cooldown, and the overloaded one to 20s cooldown. That way we make Tempest play more fluid and not overpower.
• Fire Overload should have an increase length of Burning. If ANet doesn’t want to increase the damage, then the Tornado should follow the user (about 50% walking speed) after Overload finishes.
• Water Overload is terrible. 4s cast, and any competent thief can down you. The healing per second is worst than passive healing from a Warrior. It should grant immunity for 4s while casting. It’s a freaking Water Overload. The Ele is locked out of healing for the next 20s. Make it high risk high reward. It makes sense for the bubble to give immunity.
• Earth Overload should pulse faster, and gives more bleeding stack.

Traits:

• Gives 2 stacks of stability for the full duration of Overload
• Make a trait that gives extra damage the longer the Ele stays in one attunement. Every second it increase the damage by 1%, with a cap of 10% (or 20% if it’s a grand master trait). The stack is lost as soon as the user swap to another attunement.

Sunshine.5014:

Things that should be done:

• Can swap attunement while Overloading. What ANet wants to prevent is that you cast one Overload, then switch to another attunement. When the first Overload finished, your new attunement is almost done having Overload charged, and you can keep Overloading over and over. We can fix that by having Overload put all other attunement Overload to kitten cooldown, and the overloaded one to 20s cooldown. That way we make Tempest play more fluid and not overpower.
• Fire Overload should have an increase length of Burning. If ANet doesn’t want to increase the damage, then the Tornado should follow the user (about 50% walking speed) after Overload finishes.
• Water Overload is terrible. 4s cast, and any competent thief can down you. The healing per second is worst than passive healing from a Warrior. It should grant immunity for 4s while casting. It’s a freaking Water Overload. The Ele is locked out of healing for the next 20s. Make it high risk high reward. It makes sense for the bubble to give immunity.
• Earth Overload should pulse faster, and gives more bleeding stack.

Traits:

• Gives 2 stacks of stability for the full duration of Overload
• Make a trait that gives extra damage the longer the Ele stays in one attunement. Every second it increase the damage by 1%, with a cap of 10% (or 20% if it’s a grand master trait). The stack is lost as soon as the user swap to another attunement.

That atunement trait should be on the GM. 10% combined with the immune to movement condition while overloading. I see in yours eyes that you want to replace latent stamina… But that Latent Stamina is an awesome trait. Karl should be proud of that. (It is not sarcasm)

Tempest is not even mentioned in the recent changes xD. I think people should just stop posting about it. It’s a waste of time.

Marcos.3690:

Today I reached my 100th PvP game of Tempest and I would like to analyze its new mechanic (overloading). I’ll write about the relation between cost and reward.

Cost

1- Wait 5 seconds in an attunement:
This wait-time ruins your attunement rotation. Being an elementalist you don’t want to stay in an attunement more than 3-3.5 seconds as you want to cicle fast in order to get more healing, boons, damage and condition cleansing. At the same time the autoattacks are usually underwhelming which means that you are basically going to waste a couple of seconds every time you prepare to overload.

2- Channel the overload during 4 more seconds:
This makes you extremely vulnerable to any kind of burst damage, condition and CC.

3-While overloading you are still locked in the same attunement:
Since you had to wait for 5 seconds earlier and now you are channeling for 4, all your other attunements are recharged already (5+4=9 is the attunement recharge).
Being forced to channel means that you are being extremely innefficient as you are wasting a whole rotation of boons, healing, condition cleanse and damage.

4- The overloaded attunement becomes locked for 20 seconds
20 seconds is the 200% of the base recharge rate which is huge. Not only you ruined your current attunement rotation but you are also paying with the following one.

We lost 1 rotation and made another one inefficient and therefore we are losing a ton of value (boons, damage, healing, condition cleanse). At this point you will be thinking that the reward is going to be insane. I have bad news.

Reward

1- Fire: Pulses burning and 5-6 ish might. You can get more might if you decide to stand in the small area and not move (root yourself, more drawbacks to get the full value).
2- Water: Cleanses conditions and heals.
3- Air: Deals damage. Applies vulnerability.
4- Earth: Grants protection, cripples, bleeds, immobilizes.

Cost-Reward
1- Fire: This ability should never be casted as the cost is way too high for just 5 might. You could get way more than that by doing your natural rotation. The damage is underwhelming.

2- Water: although this one may seem good, the fact that you lock yourself out of water for 20 seconds means that you will die in the next rotation. You might heal more now, but in the long run you will be losing.

3- Air: The cost is super high but at least the damage is great. Maybe the only barely usable overload.

4- Earth: Again decent, but the cost is so high it’s not worth casting.

Overall we have mediocre and average effects at an incredibly high cost. Therefore, most overloads never see any play.

Possible fixes

Two directions could be taken

a) Increase the reward: I think this would be the most interesting one. High cost high reward gameplay is usually the most enjoyable in PvP games.
If this direction is followed, only fire, water and earth need to be buffed. Air is already OKish.

b) Reduce the cost. This would require less effort by anet than option a). I will brainstorm a few suggestions (only one should be taken)

- You can swap attunements while channeling the overload (nice synergy with traits such as rock solid and elemental attunement. Probably the natural option)

- You are not forced to wait 5 seconds before starting the channel. This is a good option as it would make the stunbreak on overloads actually usable. However overloads would then become a consequence to CC, rather than a proactive play.

- Don’t punish the tempest with extended cooldowns after overloading. Overload can still have the 20 sec recharge, but attunement shouldn’t.

- Make harmonious conduit (1 stack of stability when overloading) baseline, minor or adept tier. Right now it is competing with Invigorating torrents which is too good too pass.

- Change “Rebound!” to “Your following Overload channel is instant”

- Change “Superior rune of the tempest” bonus. It now grants stability and protection while overloading (or when you use a shout – “feel the burn” synergy)

Great analysis. This is one of the few gems you can find among the trash in forums that is ele hate. They just want to see us underpowered and keep it that way. Good job.

Marcos.3690:

a) Increase the reward: I think this would be the most interesting one. High cost high reward gameplay is usually the most enjoyable in PvP games.
If this direction is followed, only fire, water and earth need to be buffed. Air is already OKish.

They reduced fire overload damage so they don’t regard its damage as too low, laughable as this may seem.

I love the rune suggestion for its effect, but then it would become mandatory and that’s bad design depending on what actual build you’re going for. The unified attunement/overload cooldown is something that really needs to go, though. How come you become exhausted after overloading fire, but if you don’t swap attunements your “exhaustion” still allows to use fire skills? Such exhaustion should just kick you out of the attunement in that case… it doesn’t even make sense to put such high cooldown for attunement.

OP, what do you think about party-wide damage modifiers or stat increases? It could be tied to Lucid Singularity, something like:

• Gives nearby allies a certain stat increase after finishing an overload, depending on the attunement.

So fire gives, like, AoE Power increase for 15sec for all members in a party. This way it would compete directly with the other options and open up for different decision making.

@Edit
Another random idea for party-wide buff is giving 10 stacks of a Venom-inspired buff that applies a certain condition, depending on the attunement (Fire->burning, Earth->bleeding, Air->??, Water->??).

Letting us swap attunements during an overload would be a good place to start. We can swap attunements while using just about all of our other abilities, so it’s inconsistent that we can’t swap during an overload. Several elementalists in my guild were surprised that they had to interrupt their overloads to change attunements.

This would allow us to switch to earth attunement 1 second into an air overload and then we would only have to wait 2 seconds to cast an earth overload. That would alleviate the downtime we would have to spend in earth attunement, when all we wanted was to use the earth overload and maybe one or two other skills. Another example would be swapping attunements at the start of a water overload. Now my water attunement will be at a 16 second cooldown at the end of the overload instead of the 20 second cooldown it would have been.

The only reason I could see for not allowing this would be the fear that elementalists would chain overloads.

Valento.9852:

I love the rune suggestion for its effect, but then it would become mandatory and that’s bad design depending on what actual build you’re going for. The unified attunement/overload cooldown is something that really needs to go, though. How come you become exhausted after overloading fire, but if you don’t swap attunements your “exhaustion” still allows to use fire skills? Such exhaustion should just kick you out of the attunement in that case… it doesn’t even make sense to put such high cooldown for attunement.

OP, what do you think about party-wide damage modifiers or stat increases? It could be tied to Lucid Singularity, something like:

• Gives nearby allies a certain stat increase after finishing an overload, depending on the attunement.

So fire gives, like, AoE Power increase for 15sec for all members in a party. This way it would compete directly with the other options and open up for different decision making.

@Edit
Another random idea for party-wide buff is giving 10 stacks of a Venom-inspired buff that applies a certain condition, depending on the attunement (Fire->burning, Earth->bleeding, Air->??, Water->??).

I agree with your thoughts on the runes as they would hurt rune variety. I like the stat increase but I think that overloads should be more visually gamechanging/impactful if they were to be buffed at all.

However I dont think anet reworks something that was realeased a week ago, so a hotfix to the hability cost would be good enough.

I guess my high cost high reward design would be:

-Fire: Same effect, increased burn frequency, the fire field now follows you.

-Water: Heals (slightly more) and cures conditions, it also leaves a big water field after completion (this would allow eles to heal even if they are locked out of water for 20 sec)

-Air: No change.

-Earth: Current effect + obsidian flesh (focus earth#5) after completion. The blast and root are applied at the beginning of the cast instead.

Kurosaix.9352:

Letting us swap attunements during an overload would be a good place to start. We can swap attunements while using just about all of our other abilities, so it’s inconsistent that we can’t swap during an overload. Several elementalists in my guild were surprised that they had to interrupt their overloads to change attunements.

This would allow us to switch to earth attunement 1 second into an air overload and then we would only have to wait 2 seconds to cast an earth overload. That would alleviate the downtime we would have to spend in earth attunement, when all we wanted was to use the earth overload and maybe one or two other skills. Another example would be swapping attunements at the start of a water overload. Now my water attunement will be at a 16 second cooldown at the end of the overload instead of the 20 second cooldown it would have been.

The only reason I could see for not allowing this would be the fear that elementalists would chain overloads.

The whole traitline ideal is against the elementalist. Sitting in an element for 5 seconds JUST to have a chance to overload. Spending another 5 casting it, AND making the recharge 20 seconds? It is counter intuitive to the whole class. And trust me, no good player is going to “chain overloads” and have 20 second cooldowns across the board

Marcos.3690:

I agree with your thoughts on the runes as they would hurt rune variety. I like the stat increase but I think that overloads should be more visually gamechanging/impactful if they were to be buffed at all.

However I dont think anet reworks something that was realeased a week ago, so a hotfix to the hability cost would be good enough.

I guess my high cost high reward design would be:

-Fire: Same effect, increased burn frequency, the fire field now follows you.

-Water: Heals (slightly more) and cures conditions, it also leaves a big water field after completion (this would allow eles to heal even if they are locked out of water for 20 sec)

-Air: No change.

-Earth: Current effect + obsidian flesh (focus earth#5) after completion. The blast and root are applied at the beginning of the cast instead.

Hmm… I’m always afraid of further increasing Overloads effects as this would lead us back to a massive nerf once they realized they are overly strong (specially considering a possible trait rework here and there later on). But, in a more hypothetical point of view:

• Fire: The fire field actually already follows you, it only stops following upon completing the overload. I’d rather have a burning duration increase, rather than frequency as it would result in a more sustained burning damage in the end (more duration= more time to stack up, better than small duration and more frequency).

• Water: I like the water field idea with the same duration as Overload Air’s Static Field. Another idea would be to splash regeneration around (could cause balance issues with Cleansing Water trait, though) or launch foes around (yesh, you heard it right, a 20-sec AoE launch).

• Air: I’m with you in this one. Everything about Overload Air is just fine-tuned.

• Earth: This change is the most dangerous in my opinion. You can tune some condi builds and take advantage of bleeding while still maintaing CC and protection (very strong support/defense). Adding Obsidian Flesh could lead to OP issues as it allows you to cast skills while the effect is active, and you could swap to a damage-oriented attunement and deal massive damage WHILE invulnerable (think fire and air with staff/dagger MH). I actually felt earth very OK to its purpose, though I’m afraid the protection application might be bugged (too much prot aftercast). Hoping it’s a design choice, and doesn’t hurt balance.