Guild Wars 2

Maybe this was brought up several times allready, I don’t know but this is my first post so bear with me please

Ok so recently I decided to give a try to the elementalist profession, I’ve never tried it before the nerf so I have no Idea how it was but I can’t see how the 40 second cooldown on RTL is fair for pve.

I’ve done some research and all the complaints were pretty much for WvW and spvp, personally I think it was all around a decent nerf as I saw plenty of videos with elementalist running like crazy and almost no one could catch them if not thieves.

I’ve played GW1 for about 7 years and I remember how the skills were at some point split between pvp and pve as the two worlds were really different from eachother, I think this kind of treatment should be applied for the RTL skill, ok maybe 40 seconds cooldown is a bit harsh in pvp too but I have no idea since I’ve never tried this class there.

Personally I don’t really like to rely on signet of Air all the time giving up an utility because I can’t use RTL to roam around, I’m no expert but it kinda hurts to be outrunned by rangers who leap all around all day with the signet always on, at least they don’t die in 2 hits.

TL;DR version

Sorry for my ignorance on the matter if something was not right, but having a nerf on Pve because people complains in Pvp does not really seem fair to me, WvW should be considered pvp in my opinion, I’d just like to be the mobile class Arenanet told us it should’ve been at launch.

It isn`t fair in any zones, let alone just pve.

I don’t think you’ll find anyone disagreeing that RTL should have a lower cooldown in PvE. There’s not even really a compelling reason it can’t even drop back to its pre-pre nerf of 15 seconds there.

I heard it took them 4 years to start splitting skills in gw.

You wish.

Fishbait.6723:

It isn`t fair in any zones, let alone just pve.

Qft.

And to the OP: selfish much pve’r? Why do you need to move fast to fight the same mob over and over anyway?

ARM, I’m not selfish, I simply stated my opinion about a skill, PVE and PVP are simply separated, that’s a fact and you know it. You didn’t even bother reading my whole post seeing your banal reply.

ARM.3912:

Fishbait.6723:

It isn`t fair in any zones, let alone just pve.

Qft.

Oops, i had to search what that meant.
/blush

Winds.3087:

I heard it took them 4 years to start splitting skills in gw.

Read somewhere that one or more spells in Guild Wars on the Elementalist weree only “fixed/changed” last year….
Not too bad as still main mine in Guild Wars

/cringe

Back on topic: yes, there’s no reason at all why RTL has such a big cooldown in PVE. Even in PVP the skill was overnerfed imo (compare it to another snare-ignoring gap closer: Savage Leap).
For PVE, the issue is much more simplistic: moving quickly reduces time spent on running, reduces amount of time being bored, increases the fun. Arenanet sometimes seems to forget that a game has to be fun, and certain details, like moving too slow, ruin that fun. Of course, in PVP mobility has to be toned down a bit, so that every class has a chance of catching another class.
TL;DR version: split your skills for pve and pvp, arenanet. It’s becoming painfully obvious that it’s necessary.

Hmm, let’s have a quick look at the numbers for Savage Leap vs RTL

Say we are spamming the abilities as much as we can, and apart from that our movement speeds are the same (swiftness)

at 900 units and 8 seconds savage leap is 112.5 units per second gained on the target

at 1200 units every 40 seconds, RTL is 30 units per second, almost 4 times slower.

with its original cast time of 15s, it is still only 80 units/s, still worse.

we could do the same for thief, but the outcome there is fairly obvious.

It does make you wonder when an ele ability is nerfed for being OP, but the several other classes which have even better equivalents are left alone.

The reason likely has to deal with the fact they want the game play to functionally be similar through PvP, WvW and PvE. They talk about this a lot as the primary reason they don’t want to split change (IE: Something works X in PvP and Y in PvE/WvW) abilities.

So imagine Player X has been doing PvE all day on his Ele using RTL to travel around on a 30 second cool down. They’ve gotten used to that 30s cool down and how it functions and reactively hit that button every 30 seconds. Then they go into WvW and start roaming and all of a sudden it has a 40s Cool Down and they die cause they expected to be able to RTL but it was on cool down for another 10s.

You can argue against that all you want but it’s the design philosophy they’re going for. Pretty sure they’d rather keep the flow of the 3 play options similar rather than split things up even further just because people got used to easy travel.

I can’t believe it, but I am going to agree with Kodiak on this!
They should try their best not to split skills. What they should do instead is produce PvE content that require PvP-style of play. Aetherbalde Retreat was a nice move in this direction.

Zelyhn.8069:

I can’t believe it, but I am going to agree with Kodiak on this!

I’m immediately declaring victory on all fronts and all past arguments are to be considered won by me.

/unfurl the “MISSION ACCOMPLISHED” banner

If anything RTL needs 1 cooldown. It is unfair for us people that lag to have to deal with this skill bugging out over 600 units even though we are using it as intended by the devs (gap closer). It almost never hits over that distance an you usually teleport back to 600-900. The same thing happened with RTL pre 1500 fix, you would go 1500 then rubber band back to 900-1200, waisting your updraft in the process.

Just revert RTL to 20cd 1200 range and move cleansing wave to the focus already.

Then if they`re going to hit one classes roaming by over 130%, especially in D/D which is melee only, whereas S/D is short range attack, all classes should have a similar nerfage.
I`ve seen warriors outrun everything except for thieves, Necro likewise, Rangers easy mode running away/catching up & so on & so on.
All of these can go from melee attack to range with weapon swap, Ele` can not, therefore the 20 second cd was fine as it was & even then ranger/warrior/necro & thief were faster.
Mesmer is slower (I think), unless use blink, scepter etc.
I`ve seen Guardians running from zergs that couldn`t catch it lol.

Simple fact is, the RTL wasn`t nerfed due to battlegrounds, pve etc. It was nerfed due to noobs not immobilising them in WvWs & constantly crying that it was OP.

Ele` got nerfed (several times over) because those idiots didn`t learn how to stun/immob` someone, whereas they should`ve been told L2P.

Kodiak.3281:

So imagine Player X has been doing PvE all day on his Ele using RTL to travel around on a 30 second cool down. They’ve gotten used to that 30s cool down and how it functions and reactively hit that button every 30 seconds. Then they go into WvW and start roaming and all of a sudden it has a 40s Cool Down and they die cause they expected to be able to RTL but it was on cool down for another 10s.

I’d be ok with that. You’ll have to look at your class from another edge of the sword and learn to play your class again, like it should be. Besides, pve and wvw builds aren’t that good in pvp anyways. Entirely different objectives and gameplay. Three different games in one – pve, www and pvp and latter aren’t connected with two others at all – apart from balance, which comes from pvp. I’d like to see pvp player face when he realizes that his favorite build was nerfed because of pve reasons. That’s how I feel each patch.
Why not go further and balance pvp for pvp reasons, wvw for wvw reasons and pve for pve reasons is beyond me.

They should try their best not to split skills. What they should do instead is produce PvE content that require PvP-style of play. Aetherbalde Retreat was a nice move in this direction.

I haven’t seen any pvp-style in AR at all. Typical spank&spank and like everything else in pve anything they throw at you is countered by one competent support guardian.

Fishbait.6723:

Simple fact is, the RTL wasn`t nerfed due to battlegrounds, pve etc. It was nerfed due to noobs not immobilising them in WvWs & constantly crying that it was OP.

Ele` got nerfed (several times over) because those idiots didn`t learn how to stun/immob` someone, whereas they should`ve been told L2P.

once again false.

Why to guess stuff already written everywhere.

RTL was nerfed due to spirit watch PvP mode….
The mistake was even designing spirit watch…but instead of fixing it was easier to nerf into the ground ele.

Devs don t care of WWW and PvE for balancing……the few times they do because something is blatantly OP they mess it up even worse. (confusion)

Where exactly does it state it was changed explicitly due to Spirit watch? Or was that also guess work?

If it was solely due to that, they would of (in theory assuming they spent all of two seconds thinking about it) just set it to that in spvp & kept it at 20 or 15 seconds in rest of the game.

Also, if it was due to that map, why are other classes allowed to move faster & ele` are not?

P.S. I know they don`t care about balance…..

Fishbait.6723:

Where exactly does it state it was changed explicitly due to Spirit watch? Or was that also guess work?

sometimes take the time read sotg interviews….they help understanding how devs don t care at all about WWW/PvE balance.

Infact they keep saying PvE ele is not good and they keep nerfing it the same.

They don’t keep nerfing PvE ele … we have never been stronger since release in PvE!

Zelyhn.8069:

They don’t keep nerfing PvE ele … we have never been stronger since release in PvE!

Spoken as someone who wasn’t around for beta when ele was actually good. Trust me, we’ve gotten weaker and weaker with each patch.

Nikkinella.8254:

Zelyhn.8069:

They don’t keep nerfing PvE ele … we have never been stronger since release in PvE!

Spoken as someone who wasn’t around for beta when ele was actually good. Trust me, we’ve gotten weaker and weaker with each patch.

I agree that we are seriously weak … I am quite tired of having to try much harder than the other classes only to achieve half of what they can do! But still, last patch buffed us a lot.

yeah destroy a weaponset, buff another nobody uses..
same old song since start.

Next is focus the only yet to be seen viable and scepter will be nerfed to the ground.

LordByron.8369:

Fishbait.6723:

Simple fact is, the RTL wasn`t nerfed due to battlegrounds, pve etc. It was nerfed due to noobs not immobilising them in WvWs & constantly crying that it was OP.

Ele` got nerfed (several times over) because those idiots didn`t learn how to stun/immob` someone, whereas they should`ve been told L2P.

once again false.

Why to guess stuff already written everywhere.

RTL was nerfed due to spirit watch PvP mode….
The mistake was even designing spirit watch…but instead of fixing it was easier to nerf into the ground ele.

Devs don t care of WWW and PvE for balancing……the few times they do because something is blatantly OP they mess it up even worse. (confusion)

I highly doubt that because RTL moves for only 600 units (half its distance) in spirit watch when you have the orb. I cannot LF with orb either (I think you can use dagger fire 3.. not sure) so mobility even with a 20-30sec RTL would not really be great compared to my warrior who can savage-leap/bulls-charge almost covering 60% the distance from the orb to a point.

RTL was nerfed because in high level tpvp the 0/10/0/30/30 ele (pre heals nerfs) could get out of far point (perfect map is foefire) to go mid and heal his buddies and get back to the far/home point back in time to stop it from being decapped.

they talked a lot about spirit watch when rtl was 15 seconds because can t be CC during RTL.

Yep, you can use fire 3 whilst carrying orb.
If anet said can`t be cc`d during RTL, just goes to show how clueless they are.

Haha! Can’t be cc’d during RTL. Do they even know what the skills they created actually do? I wish you couldn’t. It would actually make more sense if you were invulnerable while doing it, then and only then would I accept a 40 sec cooldown for it. I mean, you turn into lightning. A freaking ball of plasma. You SHOULD be invulnerable while doing it. That would actually make me more inclined to use it as a gap closer to initiate a fight and charge into my enemies.

Maybe i used the wrong words.
RTL is not affected by cripple and stuff.

^Well, I don’t know whether to feel better or worse about that. It really wouldn’t surprise me if they actually were just that clueless. It would explain a lot of the asinine changes they’ve made. It feels like they just have a big wheel that they spin and then throw darts at to pick out changes to make when it comes to class balances. We just happen to keep getting an unlucky dart I suppose.

If I am not mistaken, when in RLT you can very well be pushed back or stunned.

Yes, you can be knocked back via Longbow 4, mesmer scepter, immobilised all too easily.
Enough is enough.
We`re melee only, which means we have to risk RTL to get into range, because if we just run there, we lose our health doing kitten all but walk.
RTL biggest telegraph/audio in game, so easy to dodge even noobs do combined with it bugs on pebbles, blocks etc.
Either revert RTL or give us weapon swap now!

I don’t see how weapon swap is related haha!

If I am not mistaken again, RTL goes on a 20s cd when hitting a dodging target.

You are mistaken. It should, but it doesn’t. If it gets blocked by aegis or anything else, or dodged, it goes on the full 40 sec cooldown. So it might as well not even have that second part where it goes on 20 secs if it hits. You aren’t hitting anything unless they are afk or total noobs. Just consider it 40 seconds.

So it should be considered a bug? I remember reading in the patchnotes that it should act as I stated above.

not for dodge afaik

Yes, it is a bug, yes anet were asked outright in SOTG if Aegis, blocks etc would count & yes, anet said that aegis, blocks etc would keep the RTL as 20 seconds.
Yet again, a lie & just watch that cast, you can see/hear the erm, hmm, erm…etc.

Want to test it out in a guaranteed fashion? Enter spvp (ol, no structured kitten all there) perambulate over to enemy keep. Select door, press RTL
Enjoy being stuck as a ball of kittening useless lightning for 2-3 seconds & then enjoy your 40 seconds CD.

Nikkinella.8254:

Zelyhn.8069:

They don’t keep nerfing PvE ele … we have never been stronger since release in PvE!

Spoken as someone who wasn’t around for beta when ele was actually good. Trust me, we’ve gotten weaker and weaker with each patch.

This is the sad truth, beta ele was amazing. Beating people in pvp with sceptre auto attack though, that was OP

I still don’t understand why they didn’t just allow RTL to affected by snares like other movement skills.

Navzar.2938:

I still don’t understand why they didn’t just allow RTL to affected by snares like other movement skills.

They did not allow snares to work because “chill” already destroys us if we are not able to cleanse it (since it affects our attunement cooldowns) so RTL is the only way to get out when chilled and wait for it to fall off (if you do not have water available nor any cleansing cds).

^but that issue applies to other straight line mobility classes as well, and it’s the main reason people complained about RTL mobility. I’d much rather have the old cd and be affected by snares. Some people still consider ele to be one of the mobile classes just because of that snare ignoring aspect. Besides, chill isn’t overly common.

Wishmaster.7693:

Sorry for my ignorance on the matter if something was not right, but having a nerf on Pve because people complains in Pvp does not really seem fair to me, WvW should be considered pvp in my opinion, I’d just like to be the mobile class Arenanet told us it should’ve been at launch.

Anet said that? When?

Also, mobility doesn’t help much in PvE. If you need RtL to leave PvE every 15 seconds you’re doing it wrong.

Like many others have said, RTL nerf is definitely over the top. I went from using my ele main to doing dailies to switching to my lvl 20 warrior to knock them out because its so much quicker getting around. It was definitely nerfed as a knee-jerk reaction to people crying that they couldnt catch us in pvp.

I’m sure anet’s vision for the spell is to be a gap closer and not a gap creator (which explains why you do not get hit by a cooldown for actually hitting something). But what I do not understand is why they couldn’t just make it so that the spell stays at 20seconds if you hit a target or you are out of combat. That way, we can still travel and get around quickly like many of the classes, and it still falls in line with the idea that the spell be used as a gap closer (while in combat).

Redscope.6215:

Wishmaster.7693:

Sorry for my ignorance on the matter if something was not right, but having a nerf on Pve because people complains in Pvp does not really seem fair to me, WvW should be considered pvp in my opinion, I’d just like to be the mobile class Arenanet told us it should’ve been at launch.

Anet said that? When?

Also, mobility doesn’t help much in PvE. If you need RtL to leave PvE every 15 seconds you’re doing it wrong.

I think you are missing the point. Some people (like myself) would rather get from point A to point B quickly so we can do whatever we wanted to do instead of putting on auto-run and alt-tabbing to make posts like this on the forum to kill time. Let’s face it, after a while, traveling becomes a bore and nuisance.