Guild Wars 2

So, RTL can’t be how it was because lets face it, guaranteed 1200 distance opener/closer (immune to CCs and all that jazz) was really strong, but 40s CD is ridiculous (i’ve never said it wasn’t). So how about instead of if we miss we get hit with a 40s CD instead if we miss we get hit with a reduced distance? Maybe it only goes 600 units instead of 1200?

Then we could still use it to escape (kinda) or engage, but just not as well. What do you think?

EDIT Ignore my ignorance, i had thought the bugged 1550 range was actually 1200 range, i think it’d be fine if it were just reverted

Durzlla.6295:

So, RTL can’t be how it was because lets face it, guaranteed 1200 distance opener/closer (immune to CCs and all that jazz) was really strong, but 40s CD is ridiculous (i’ve never said it wasn’t). So how about instead of if we miss we get hit with a 40s CD instead if we miss we get hit with a reduced distance? Maybe it only goes 600 units instead of 1200?

Then we could still use it to escape (kinda) or engage, but just not as well. What do you think?

You are not immune to CC. You are not immune to immobilize. It is a teleport that acts as a teleport (gasp). It only ignores cripple and chilled. You can be knocked, bulled, blown, frozen and any other type of CC that I might have missed if your opponent is on his game.

Your fix is worse than how it is now. 600 range on RTL? You crazy?

I actually think reducing the range to 1200 would have been enough to make it balanced, without the ridiculous cooldown increase. 1200 range doesn’t take you out of combat in pvp, and every class has access to 1200 range skills, most of them (besides ele and thief AFAIK) even can skill for 1500 range.
The main problem with RTL was that it gave bunkers a free out of jail card because it was 1550 range which meant you were instantly out of range of enemies and could heal up. With 1200 range that isn’t possible any more so they really should revert the cooldown to 20 seconds or even 15 like it was at the start.
Ranger, Warrior, etc. mobility skills all have around 10-12 seconds cooldown only. RTL should have that too. If RTL ignoring slow and crippled would have been a problem they simply should have disabled that feature of RTL instead. Although I think ignoring those conditions is a fair tradeoff for not being able to us any instant or utility skill while RTL is active (meaning if you’re immobilized you’re a sitting duck for ~2 seconds).

Raif.9507:

Durzlla.6295:

So, RTL can’t be how it was because lets face it, guaranteed 1200 distance opener/closer (immune to CCs and all that jazz) was really strong, but 40s CD is ridiculous (i’ve never said it wasn’t). So how about instead of if we miss we get hit with a 40s CD instead if we miss we get hit with a reduced distance? Maybe it only goes 600 units instead of 1200?

Then we could still use it to escape (kinda) or engage, but just not as well. What do you think?

You are not immune to CC. You are not immune to immobilize. It is a teleport that acts as a teleport (gasp). It only ignores cripple and chilled. You can be knocked, bulled, blown, frozen and any other type of CC that I might have missed if your opponent is on his game.

Your fix is worse than how it is now. 600 range on RTL? You crazy?

I always played a ranger or an ele (staff or s/f were my main weapons) so i didn’t really know you could be pulled and all of that, and i KNOW you can’t be chilled or crippled in it (or at least be affected by it). Btw, i was saying instead of a 40s CD WHEN YOU MISS it becomes a 600 range skill, IE if you hit someone it’s still 1200.

As for Aether, i didn’t realize the distance -was- that far, i think 1200 would probably be fine if it was actually bugged and sending them extremely far away. I know the main issue was the skill was a total disengage, you can’t do anything to stop me (almost anything) sort of thing.

Durzlla.6295:

Raif.9507:

Durzlla.6295:

So, RTL can’t be how it was because lets face it, guaranteed 1200 distance opener/closer (immune to CCs and all that jazz) was really strong, but 40s CD is ridiculous (i’ve never said it wasn’t). So how about instead of if we miss we get hit with a 40s CD instead if we miss we get hit with a reduced distance? Maybe it only goes 600 units instead of 1200?

Then we could still use it to escape (kinda) or engage, but just not as well. What do you think?

You are not immune to CC. You are not immune to immobilize. It is a teleport that acts as a teleport (gasp). It only ignores cripple and chilled. You can be knocked, bulled, blown, frozen and any other type of CC that I might have missed if your opponent is on his game.

Your fix is worse than how it is now. 600 range on RTL? You crazy?

I always played a ranger or an ele (staff or s/f were my main weapons) so i didn’t really know you could be pulled and all of that, and i KNOW you can’t be chilled or crippled in it (or at least be affected by it). Btw, i was saying instead of a 40s CD WHEN YOU MISS it becomes a 600 range skill, IE if you hit someone it’s still 1200.

As for Aether, i didn’t realize the distance -was- that far, i think 1200 would probably be fine if it was actually bugged and sending them extremely far away. I know the main issue was the skill was a total disengage, you can’t do anything to stop me (almost anything) sort of thing.

Theres plenty you can do to stop it, but it requires intelligent play. Something Anet doesn’t seem to expect from it’s player base. It’s very simple. See the ele at low health and swapped to air? Immobilize, because there is a 90% chance he will RTL. Bam 2 seconds to kill the ele and there is nothing he can do.

You can set up a pull with the mesmer too, that just takes a lot of planning though, and the warrior can use his f1 hammer skill while you are in the transform to stun him. Thief can use basilisk venom and hit us for a stun, but it all takes a bit of planning and very good timing.

The reduction to 1200 was good enough of a nerf. Plenty of classes have range/gap closers that can be used to be back on the elementalist if he/she managed to get off that RTL. The previous range was too much and let us get out of combat easy to heal up if we had no conditions on us, but now with the nerf being 1200 range, thieves now have a 1500 trait for steal, and rangers having enough range plus lower cooldowns on their gap closers and warriors have ALWAYS been faster than us anyway (the recent buff to sword makes it a VERY good weapon to roam with) means that it isn’t as OP as people make it out to be.

Raif.9507:

Durzlla.6295:

Raif.9507:

Durzlla.6295:

So, RTL can’t be how it was because lets face it, guaranteed 1200 distance opener/closer (immune to CCs and all that jazz) was really strong, but 40s CD is ridiculous (i’ve never said it wasn’t). So how about instead of if we miss we get hit with a 40s CD instead if we miss we get hit with a reduced distance? Maybe it only goes 600 units instead of 1200?

Then we could still use it to escape (kinda) or engage, but just not as well. What do you think?

You are not immune to CC. You are not immune to immobilize. It is a teleport that acts as a teleport (gasp). It only ignores cripple and chilled. You can be knocked, bulled, blown, frozen and any other type of CC that I might have missed if your opponent is on his game.

Your fix is worse than how it is now. 600 range on RTL? You crazy?

I always played a ranger or an ele (staff or s/f were my main weapons) so i didn’t really know you could be pulled and all of that, and i KNOW you can’t be chilled or crippled in it (or at least be affected by it). Btw, i was saying instead of a 40s CD WHEN YOU MISS it becomes a 600 range skill, IE if you hit someone it’s still 1200.

As for Aether, i didn’t realize the distance -was- that far, i think 1200 would probably be fine if it was actually bugged and sending them extremely far away. I know the main issue was the skill was a total disengage, you can’t do anything to stop me (almost anything) sort of thing.

Theres plenty you can do to stop it, but it requires intelligent play. Something Anet doesn’t seem to expect from it’s player base. It’s very simple. See the ele at low health and swapped to air? Immobilize, because there is a 90% chance he will RTL. Bam 2 seconds to kill the ele and there is nothing he can do.

You can set up a pull with the mesmer too, that just takes a lot of planning though, and the warrior can use his f1 hammer skill while you are in the transform to stun him. Thief can use basilisk venom and hit us for a stun, but it all takes a bit of planning and very good timing.

The reduction to 1200 was good enough of a nerf. Plenty of classes have range/gap closers that can be used to be back on the elementalist if he/she managed to get off that RTL. The previous range was too much and let us get out of combat easy to heal up if we had no conditions on us, but now with the nerf being 1200 range, thieves now have a 1500 trait for steal, and rangers having enough range plus lower cooldowns on their gap closers and warriors have ALWAYS been faster than us anyway (the recent buff to sword makes it a VERY good weapon to roam with) means that it isn’t as OP as people make it out to be.

Well the 1550 was OP, i just assumed that was 1200 though, but since that -wasn’t- 1200 i see no way RTL would be OP with a 20s CD if the range was what it was supposed to be.

That being said although on paper it looks like theres a lot of counters, most builds don’t have those, so it can’t be strong enough where if you -don’t- have that stun/immob the ele is going to win, but it -should- be strong enough where if you don’t have that stun/immob/gap closer that the ele can get away, because really if you’re not running with ANY of those you’re probably going for pure SMASH FACE MOAR DMGZ build or your build is just really really bad.

Funny how everyone seems to forget rtl locks all your skills when talking about how great it is.

Hence I said, the average player doesn’t run with the proper counters. But why should that be punished. If a player doesn’t want to run with the proper skills or know how to use them to immobilize someone, that isn’t my problem.

They don’t need to spec just to fight elementalists, but an immobilize is great to fight ANY mobile class. People need to learn that you can’t just slot for more damage in PvP. It doesn’t work that way. People need to step up their game and learn how to counter things. This is the reason that people complain about thieves, or mesmers because they do not have the proper skills to counter them and then cry about it.

And most builds DO have it. Most builds that are popular for sPvP and WvW have some form of CC/stability in them as well as gap closers. They HAVE the ability to use them, but don’t.

Durzlla.6295:

That being said although on paper it looks like theres a lot of counters, most builds don’t have those, so it can’t be strong enough where if you -don’t- have that stun/immob the ele is going to win, […]

I see this pretty much as a double standard.

If a dagger thief opens on you and you don’t have a stunbreak ready you’re dead.
If a greatsword warrior charges you and you don’t have a stunbreak ready you’re dead.
If a necro fear-condition-bombs you and you don’t have a stunbreak/cleanse ready you’re dead.
If you don’t bring insane burst you won’t win against a competent bunker ranger.
If you don’t bring stuns, slows and aoes you won’t win against any thief because he will stealth away.
The list goes on.

So why is it always OK to have to bring specific skills and needing to use specific tactics against all other classes, but when it comes to eles that’s not OK and ele needs nerfs until they can be defeated by braindead opponents hammering their face on the keyboard?

Aether McLoud.1975:

Durzlla.6295:

That being said although on paper it looks like theres a lot of counters, most builds don’t have those, so it can’t be strong enough where if you -don’t- have that stun/immob the ele is going to win, […]

I see this pretty much as a double standard.

If a dagger thief opens on you and you don’t have a stunbreak ready you’re dead.
If a greatsword warrior charges you and you don’t have a stunbreak ready you’re dead.
If a necro fear-condition-bombs you and you don’t have a stunbreak/cleanse ready you’re dead.
If you don’t bring insane burst you won’t win against a competent bunker ranger.
If you don’t bring stuns, slows and aoes you won’t win against any thief because he will stealth away.
The list goes on.

So why is it always OK to have to bring specific skills and needing to use specific tactics against all other classes, but when it comes to eles that’s not OK and ele needs nerfs until they can be defeated by braindead opponents hammering their face on the keyboard?

I don’t use a stun break against a warrior or thief, i just use raw tankyness to wait out their burst and then melt them with condis (how most condi builds work), or i do this thing called Dodging/Blocking.

Am i saying that it’s not OK to make it so if you don’t have a handful of skills to stop the eles escape he gets away? No, i’m saying that it shouldn’t HAVE to be a Stun or immob, there should also be the option to just chase after them IE The Ele RTLs out, i should be able to say, GS leap after him on my ranger, or pull him back on my engi etc. It shouldn’t be “Oh well i don’t have an immob/stun, looks like the ele wont die!”

For most builds and that there are MULTIPLE ways to prevent your death/to kill the enemy, that’s all i’m saying, it shouldn’t be immob/stun only, those are few and far between, i mean for kittens sakes, a necro only has 1 immob and doesn’t even have a stun.

That being said, most builds that are decent (as i said) have some form of CC, so it’s not out of the question to make them have CC to counter RTL.

EDIT: I think the three of us are actually on the same page, as long as RTL has a 1200 range, i don’t see how the skill is OP, but it CAN NOT have the 1550 range (which i thought was 1200) and keep the 20s CD.

Durzlla.6295:

Btw, i was saying instead of a 40s CD WHEN YOU MISS it becomes a 600 range skill, IE if you hit someone it’s still 1200.

That doesn’t make sense. You may have already gone 1200 when you miss. How would you go back to 600 at that point?

Durzlla.6295:

Aether McLoud.1975:

Durzlla.6295:

That being said although on paper it looks like theres a lot of counters, most builds don’t have those, so it can’t be strong enough where if you -don’t- have that stun/immob the ele is going to win, […]

I see this pretty much as a double standard.

If a dagger thief opens on you and you don’t have a stunbreak ready you’re dead.
If a greatsword warrior charges you and you don’t have a stunbreak ready you’re dead.
If a necro fear-condition-bombs you and you don’t have a stunbreak/cleanse ready you’re dead.
If you don’t bring insane burst you won’t win against a competent bunker ranger.
If you don’t bring stuns, slows and aoes you won’t win against any thief because he will stealth away.
The list goes on.

So why is it always OK to have to bring specific skills and needing to use specific tactics against all other classes, but when it comes to eles that’s not OK and ele needs nerfs until they can be defeated by braindead opponents hammering their face on the keyboard?

I don’t use a stun break against a warrior or thief, i just use raw tankyness to wait out their burst and then melt them with condis (how most condi builds work), or i do this thing called Dodging/Blocking.

I’m sorry but that’s not an option. No matter your toughness or vitality, if you don’t stunbreak basilisk venom ASAP you’re dead against a burst thief, so the rest of your point doesn’t have any substance.

There aren’t multiple ways to get out of this situation. There is no option. You either have the stunbreak and use it, and have A CHANCE to win (though of course the thief still has the upper hand through his opener) or you are dead. Simple as that. It’s a binary choice.

Aether McLoud.1975:

Durzlla.6295:

Aether McLoud.1975:

Durzlla.6295:

That being said although on paper it looks like theres a lot of counters, most builds don’t have those, so it can’t be strong enough where if you -don’t- have that stun/immob the ele is going to win, […]

I see this pretty much as a double standard.

If a dagger thief opens on you and you don’t have a stunbreak ready you’re dead.
If a greatsword warrior charges you and you don’t have a stunbreak ready you’re dead.
If a necro fear-condition-bombs you and you don’t have a stunbreak/cleanse ready you’re dead.
If you don’t bring insane burst you won’t win against a competent bunker ranger.
If you don’t bring stuns, slows and aoes you won’t win against any thief because he will stealth away.
The list goes on.

So why is it always OK to have to bring specific skills and needing to use specific tactics against all other classes, but when it comes to eles that’s not OK and ele needs nerfs until they can be defeated by braindead opponents hammering their face on the keyboard?

I don’t use a stun break against a warrior or thief, i just use raw tankyness to wait out their burst and then melt them with condis (how most condi builds work), or i do this thing called Dodging/Blocking.

I’m sorry but that’s not an option. No matter your toughness or vitality, if you don’t stunbreak basilisk venom ASAP you’re dead against a burst thief, so the rest of your point doesn’t have any substance.

There aren’t multiple ways to get out of this situation. There is no option. You either have the stunbreak and use it, and have A CHANCE to win (though of course the thief still has the upper hand through his opener) or you are dead. Simple as that. It’s a binary choice.

Maybe if you’re an ele, my ranger, mesmer, and engi do not need to stunbreak it they have ways to mitigate the damage while stunned (or prevent most of it). Idk if i can on my ele or not because all my eles builds have a stunbreaker (or two) because of how squishy they are.

Durzlla.6295:

Aether McLoud.1975:

Durzlla.6295:

Aether McLoud.1975:

Durzlla.6295:

That being said although on paper it looks like theres a lot of counters, most builds don’t have those, so it can’t be strong enough where if you -don’t- have that stun/immob the ele is going to win, […]

I see this pretty much as a double standard.

If a dagger thief opens on you and you don’t have a stunbreak ready you’re dead.
If a greatsword warrior charges you and you don’t have a stunbreak ready you’re dead.
If a necro fear-condition-bombs you and you don’t have a stunbreak/cleanse ready you’re dead.
If you don’t bring insane burst you won’t win against a competent bunker ranger.
If you don’t bring stuns, slows and aoes you won’t win against any thief because he will stealth away.
The list goes on.

So why is it always OK to have to bring specific skills and needing to use specific tactics against all other classes, but when it comes to eles that’s not OK and ele needs nerfs until they can be defeated by braindead opponents hammering their face on the keyboard?

I don’t use a stun break against a warrior or thief, i just use raw tankyness to wait out their burst and then melt them with condis (how most condi builds work), or i do this thing called Dodging/Blocking.

I’m sorry but that’s not an option. No matter your toughness or vitality, if you don’t stunbreak basilisk venom ASAP you’re dead against a burst thief, so the rest of your point doesn’t have any substance.

There aren’t multiple ways to get out of this situation. There is no option. You either have the stunbreak and use it, and have A CHANCE to win (though of course the thief still has the upper hand through his opener) or you are dead. Simple as that. It’s a binary choice.

Maybe if you’re an ele, my ranger, mesmer, and engi do not need to stunbreak it they have ways to mitigate the damage while stunned (or prevent most of it). Idk if i can on my ele or not because all my eles builds have a stunbreaker (or two) because of how squishy they are.

Dunno about mesmer and ranger but as an engy you’d have to spent specific trait points to get the damage reduction while stunned to live through that amount of burst even with 1900 toughness.

So again, the point still stands: Why is it OK for classes to have to use specific skills/tactics/traits against the likes of thieves, warriors, etc. to be able to have a fighting chance, but when it’s eles instead of people learning to adapt eles have to be nerfed every single time?

That’s the very definition of a double standard.

Aether McLoud.1975:

Durzlla.6295:

Aether McLoud.1975:

Durzlla.6295:

Aether McLoud.1975:

Durzlla.6295:

That being said although on paper it looks like theres a lot of counters, most builds don’t have those, so it can’t be strong enough where if you -don’t- have that stun/immob the ele is going to win, […]

I see this pretty much as a double standard.

If a dagger thief opens on you and you don’t have a stunbreak ready you’re dead.
If a greatsword warrior charges you and you don’t have a stunbreak ready you’re dead.
If a necro fear-condition-bombs you and you don’t have a stunbreak/cleanse ready you’re dead.
If you don’t bring insane burst you won’t win against a competent bunker ranger.
If you don’t bring stuns, slows and aoes you won’t win against any thief because he will stealth away.
The list goes on.

So why is it always OK to have to bring specific skills and needing to use specific tactics against all other classes, but when it comes to eles that’s not OK and ele needs nerfs until they can be defeated by braindead opponents hammering their face on the keyboard?

I don’t use a stun break against a warrior or thief, i just use raw tankyness to wait out their burst and then melt them with condis (how most condi builds work), or i do this thing called Dodging/Blocking.

I’m sorry but that’s not an option. No matter your toughness or vitality, if you don’t stunbreak basilisk venom ASAP you’re dead against a burst thief, so the rest of your point doesn’t have any substance.

There aren’t multiple ways to get out of this situation. There is no option. You either have the stunbreak and use it, and have A CHANCE to win (though of course the thief still has the upper hand through his opener) or you are dead. Simple as that. It’s a binary choice.

Maybe if you’re an ele, my ranger, mesmer, and engi do not need to stunbreak it they have ways to mitigate the damage while stunned (or prevent most of it). Idk if i can on my ele or not because all my eles builds have a stunbreaker (or two) because of how squishy they are.

Dunno about mesmer and ranger but as an engy you’d have to spent specific trait points to get the damage reduction while stunned to live through that amount of burst even with 1900 toughness.

So again, the point still stands: Why is it OK for classes to have to use specific skills/tactics/traits against the likes of thieves, warriors, etc. to be able to have a fighting chance, but when it’s eles instead of people learning to adapt eles have to be nerfed every single time?

That’s the very definition of a double standard.

I’m not saying that, i’m saying there shouldn’t be ONE WAY, you are essentially saying if you go against a D/D ele and you don’t have an immob or stun, whelp sucks to be you, i’m saying it shouldn’t be that narrow. As for my engi, he’s a turret engi, that thief jumps on me and he gets stunned or KD or thrown away from me and his entire burst combo is ruined, or i use this fancy little thing called a shield and stun his kitten the second he comes up to stun me, or better yet, just block the shot entirely. There are OPTIONS on those ones, just because you only use the most direct route doesn’t mean there aren’t other ways to prevent it.

Durzlla.6295:

Aether McLoud.1975:

Durzlla.6295:

Aether McLoud.1975:

Durzlla.6295:

Aether McLoud.1975:

Durzlla.6295:

That being said although on paper it looks like theres a lot of counters, most builds don’t have those, so it can’t be strong enough where if you -don’t- have that stun/immob the ele is going to win, […]

I see this pretty much as a double standard.

If a dagger thief opens on you and you don’t have a stunbreak ready you’re dead.
If a greatsword warrior charges you and you don’t have a stunbreak ready you’re dead.
If a necro fear-condition-bombs you and you don’t have a stunbreak/cleanse ready you’re dead.
If you don’t bring insane burst you won’t win against a competent bunker ranger.
If you don’t bring stuns, slows and aoes you won’t win against any thief because he will stealth away.
The list goes on.

So why is it always OK to have to bring specific skills and needing to use specific tactics against all other classes, but when it comes to eles that’s not OK and ele needs nerfs until they can be defeated by braindead opponents hammering their face on the keyboard?

I don’t use a stun break against a warrior or thief, i just use raw tankyness to wait out their burst and then melt them with condis (how most condi builds work), or i do this thing called Dodging/Blocking.

I’m sorry but that’s not an option. No matter your toughness or vitality, if you don’t stunbreak basilisk venom ASAP you’re dead against a burst thief, so the rest of your point doesn’t have any substance.

There aren’t multiple ways to get out of this situation. There is no option. You either have the stunbreak and use it, and have A CHANCE to win (though of course the thief still has the upper hand through his opener) or you are dead. Simple as that. It’s a binary choice.

Maybe if you’re an ele, my ranger, mesmer, and engi do not need to stunbreak it they have ways to mitigate the damage while stunned (or prevent most of it). Idk if i can on my ele or not because all my eles builds have a stunbreaker (or two) because of how squishy they are.

Dunno about mesmer and ranger but as an engy you’d have to spent specific trait points to get the damage reduction while stunned to live through that amount of burst even with 1900 toughness.

So again, the point still stands: Why is it OK for classes to have to use specific skills/tactics/traits against the likes of thieves, warriors, etc. to be able to have a fighting chance, but when it’s eles instead of people learning to adapt eles have to be nerfed every single time?

That’s the very definition of a double standard.

I’m not saying that, i’m saying there shouldn’t be ONE WAY, you are essentially saying if you go against a D/D ele and you don’t have an immob or stun, whelp sucks to be you, i’m saying it shouldn’t be that narrow. As for my engi, he’s a turret engi, that thief jumps on me and he gets stunned or KD or thrown away from me and his entire burst combo is ruined, or i use this fancy little thing called a shield and stun his kitten the second he comes up to stun me, or better yet, just block the shot entirely. There are OPTIONS on those ones, just because you only use the most direct route doesn’t mean there aren’t other ways to prevent it.

a) For eles there IS ONLY ONE WAY to get out of that thief instagib.
b) There already ARE MULTIPLE WAYS against a 1200 range RTL because as I said all classes have 1200 range skills, most of them even 1500 if skilled, all classes have immobilizes, stuns and movement skills. Every single one of these is a counter against RTL. If you have a 1200 range weapon all you have to do is move 1 inch and autoattack away and there’s nothing the ele can do against it.

Aether McLoud.1975:

Durzlla.6295:

Aether McLoud.1975:

Durzlla.6295:

Aether McLoud.1975:

Durzlla.6295:

Aether McLoud.1975:

Durzlla.6295:

That being said although on paper it looks like theres a lot of counters, most builds don’t have those, so it can’t be strong enough where if you -don’t- have that stun/immob the ele is going to win, […]

I see this pretty much as a double standard.

If a dagger thief opens on you and you don’t have a stunbreak ready you’re dead.
If a greatsword warrior charges you and you don’t have a stunbreak ready you’re dead.
If a necro fear-condition-bombs you and you don’t have a stunbreak/cleanse ready you’re dead.
If you don’t bring insane burst you won’t win against a competent bunker ranger.
If you don’t bring stuns, slows and aoes you won’t win against any thief because he will stealth away.
The list goes on.

So why is it always OK to have to bring specific skills and needing to use specific tactics against all other classes, but when it comes to eles that’s not OK and ele needs nerfs until they can be defeated by braindead opponents hammering their face on the keyboard?

I don’t use a stun break against a warrior or thief, i just use raw tankyness to wait out their burst and then melt them with condis (how most condi builds work), or i do this thing called Dodging/Blocking.

I’m sorry but that’s not an option. No matter your toughness or vitality, if you don’t stunbreak basilisk venom ASAP you’re dead against a burst thief, so the rest of your point doesn’t have any substance.

There aren’t multiple ways to get out of this situation. There is no option. You either have the stunbreak and use it, and have A CHANCE to win (though of course the thief still has the upper hand through his opener) or you are dead. Simple as that. It’s a binary choice.

Maybe if you’re an ele, my ranger, mesmer, and engi do not need to stunbreak it they have ways to mitigate the damage while stunned (or prevent most of it). Idk if i can on my ele or not because all my eles builds have a stunbreaker (or two) because of how squishy they are.

Dunno about mesmer and ranger but as an engy you’d have to spent specific trait points to get the damage reduction while stunned to live through that amount of burst even with 1900 toughness.

So again, the point still stands: Why is it OK for classes to have to use specific skills/tactics/traits against the likes of thieves, warriors, etc. to be able to have a fighting chance, but when it’s eles instead of people learning to adapt eles have to be nerfed every single time?

That’s the very definition of a double standard.

I’m not saying that, i’m saying there shouldn’t be ONE WAY, you are essentially saying if you go against a D/D ele and you don’t have an immob or stun, whelp sucks to be you, i’m saying it shouldn’t be that narrow. As for my engi, he’s a turret engi, that thief jumps on me and he gets stunned or KD or thrown away from me and his entire burst combo is ruined, or i use this fancy little thing called a shield and stun his kitten the second he comes up to stun me, or better yet, just block the shot entirely. There are OPTIONS on those ones, just because you only use the most direct route doesn’t mean there aren’t other ways to prevent it.

a) For eles there IS ONLY ONE WAY to get out of that thief instagib.
b) There already ARE MULTIPLE WAYS against a 1200 range RTL because as I said all classes have 1200 range skills, most of them even 1500 if skilled, all classes have immobilizes, stuns and movement skills. Every single one of these is a counter against RTL. If you have a 1200 range weapon all you have to do is move 1 inch and autoattack away and there’s nothing the ele can do against it.

I already said it’d be fine if it were 1200 range because you could just chase after them, i don’t know why you’re still going on about this, i’ve posted that as a response a while ago, and an ele actually has the same “I’ll just CC you while i’m CCed” approach the engi can have if they either have Tempest Defense or Static Field (use it defensively) or Static Shield, or if you time it right comet (i only knew about this one because my friend whose a thief told me a few eles have done it to him).

Durzlla.6295:

Aether McLoud.1975:

Durzlla.6295:

Aether McLoud.1975:

Durzlla.6295:

Aether McLoud.1975:

Durzlla.6295:

Aether McLoud.1975:

Durzlla.6295:

That being said although on paper it looks like theres a lot of counters, most builds don’t have those, so it can’t be strong enough where if you -don’t- have that stun/immob the ele is going to win, […]

I see this pretty much as a double standard.

If a dagger thief opens on you and you don’t have a stunbreak ready you’re dead.
If a greatsword warrior charges you and you don’t have a stunbreak ready you’re dead.
If a necro fear-condition-bombs you and you don’t have a stunbreak/cleanse ready you’re dead.
If you don’t bring insane burst you won’t win against a competent bunker ranger.
If you don’t bring stuns, slows and aoes you won’t win against any thief because he will stealth away.
The list goes on.

So why is it always OK to have to bring specific skills and needing to use specific tactics against all other classes, but when it comes to eles that’s not OK and ele needs nerfs until they can be defeated by braindead opponents hammering their face on the keyboard?

I don’t use a stun break against a warrior or thief, i just use raw tankyness to wait out their burst and then melt them with condis (how most condi builds work), or i do this thing called Dodging/Blocking.

I’m sorry but that’s not an option. No matter your toughness or vitality, if you don’t stunbreak basilisk venom ASAP you’re dead against a burst thief, so the rest of your point doesn’t have any substance.

There aren’t multiple ways to get out of this situation. There is no option. You either have the stunbreak and use it, and have A CHANCE to win (though of course the thief still has the upper hand through his opener) or you are dead. Simple as that. It’s a binary choice.

Maybe if you’re an ele, my ranger, mesmer, and engi do not need to stunbreak it they have ways to mitigate the damage while stunned (or prevent most of it). Idk if i can on my ele or not because all my eles builds have a stunbreaker (or two) because of how squishy they are.

Dunno about mesmer and ranger but as an engy you’d have to spent specific trait points to get the damage reduction while stunned to live through that amount of burst even with 1900 toughness.

So again, the point still stands: Why is it OK for classes to have to use specific skills/tactics/traits against the likes of thieves, warriors, etc. to be able to have a fighting chance, but when it’s eles instead of people learning to adapt eles have to be nerfed every single time?

That’s the very definition of a double standard.

I’m not saying that, i’m saying there shouldn’t be ONE WAY, you are essentially saying if you go against a D/D ele and you don’t have an immob or stun, whelp sucks to be you, i’m saying it shouldn’t be that narrow. As for my engi, he’s a turret engi, that thief jumps on me and he gets stunned or KD or thrown away from me and his entire burst combo is ruined, or i use this fancy little thing called a shield and stun his kitten the second he comes up to stun me, or better yet, just block the shot entirely. There are OPTIONS on those ones, just because you only use the most direct route doesn’t mean there aren’t other ways to prevent it.

a) For eles there IS ONLY ONE WAY to get out of that thief instagib.
b) There already ARE MULTIPLE WAYS against a 1200 range RTL because as I said all classes have 1200 range skills, most of them even 1500 if skilled, all classes have immobilizes, stuns and movement skills. Every single one of these is a counter against RTL. If you have a 1200 range weapon all you have to do is move 1 inch and autoattack away and there’s nothing the ele can do against it.

I already said it’d be fine if it were 1200 range because you could just chase after them, i don’t know why you’re still going on about this, i’ve posted that as a response a while ago, and an ele actually has the same “I’ll just CC you while i’m CCed” approach the engi can have if they either have Tempest Defense or Static Field (use it defensively) or Static Shield, or if you time it right comet (i only knew about this one because my friend whose a thief told me a few eles have done it to him).

Glad we’re on the same page then. 1200 range 20 seconds RTL. Now we’ll just need to get arenanet to recognize that the ele forum even exists

Take cleansing wave, put it on the focus. Take Comet, put it on the /Dagger. Revert RTL, bunker and movement issue solved.

TGSlasher.1458:

Take cleansing wave, put it on the focus. Take Comet, put it on the /Dagger. Revert RTL, bunker and movement issue solved.

You know what? You’re absolutely right….

Durzlla.6295:

TGSlasher.1458:

Take cleansing wave, put it on the focus. Take Comet, put it on the /Dagger. Revert RTL, bunker and movement issue solved.

You know what? You’re absolutely right….

They keep punishing the bunker side of /D. Why don’t they just take the defensive weapon (focus) and turn it into the desired bunker weapon. Then make the /D the damage / movement (roaming) weapon. It cant do both (they wont let do both) and currently there is no desire for the focus over /D. Despite that I still use the focus, it has its moments.

Some more tweeks would be needed, /D probably shouldn’t have 3 interrupts lol.

TGSlasher.1458:

Durzlla.6295:

TGSlasher.1458:

Take cleansing wave, put it on the focus. Take Comet, put it on the /Dagger. Revert RTL, bunker and movement issue solved.

You know what? You’re absolutely right….

They keep punishing the bunker side of /D. Why don’t they just take the defensive weapon (focus) and turn it into the desired bunker weapon. Then make the /D the damage / movement (roaming) weapon. It cant do both (they wont let do both) and currently there is no desire for the focus over /D. Despite that I still use the focus, it has its moments.

Some more tweeks would be needed, /D probably shouldn’t have 3 interrupts lol.

3 interrupts is fine IMO especially if their main survivability skill is transferred to the focus, I mean it’s not like the focus really needs comet, it has so much survivability already, I think it’d be better off with that heal.

True
I have made a post about this on the forums now. I have been requesting this change for a long time, back when they were about to nerf RTL the first time.