RTL vs Rush, why were we nerfed again?

RTL vs Rush, why were we nerfed again?

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Posted by: phaeris.7604

phaeris.7604

Ride the lightning: 1200 range, 336 damage, 40 sec recharge unless you hit someone, then 20 sec recharge, 180 radius.

Rush: 1200 range, 628 damage, 20 second recharge.

So why exactly was Rtl nerfed yet rush remains untouched?

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Posted by: Zelyhn.8069

Zelyhn.8069

Zelyhn.8069 [rT]
Retired elementalist theorycrafter

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Posted by: phaeris.7604

phaeris.7604

Hah! Sadly I think that’s pretty close to the mark.

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Posted by: phaeris.7604

phaeris.7604

I also don’t understand also why dogged march , a 33 percent snare reduction + regen is adept on a warrior, yet geomancer’s freedom , only a 33 percent snare reduction is a master tier trait.

Honestly after coming up against warriors in wvw today, the changes they made in spvp for them are amplified 1000 fold in severity.

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Posted by: Fuzzion.2504

Fuzzion.2504

Not sure about spvp, but i think the warrior and engie class were made for the beginners.

Fuzzionx [SF]
Guest member of [LOVE]
JQ official Prime Minister

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Posted by: Doctor Orderly MD PhD DDS.7625

Doctor Orderly MD PhD DDS.7625

RtL is better than rush.

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Posted by: phaeris.7604

phaeris.7604

Nothing like a statement with no explanation.

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Posted by: Kyon.9735

Kyon.9735

RtL is better than rush.

Let’s swap then (:

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Posted by: Sizer.5632

Sizer.5632

I would make this in the warrior forum instead of here so some of them actually read it. The people who defend that class come up with some pretty hilarious replies sometimes. I think i saw one threatening to quit his warrior and play an easymode ele if his healing signet got nerfed, i wonder if he will ever get around to doing that.

Borolis Pass – [TOVL]
Aeneaaa – 80 engineer
Aeeneaa – 80 Ele

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Posted by: sorrychief.2563

sorrychief.2563

WvW reason: a few eles were kiting and killing zergs by themselves while recording it all.

Spvp/Tpvp reason: you could simply RTL away, reset fight, cleanse every condition on you in seconds and go back to cleave everything.

champion magus
previously rank 2 on old leaderboards
EG.secret.OG.NAVI.sorrychief

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Posted by: Marcos.3690

Marcos.3690

Ride the lightning: 1200 range, 336 damage, 40 sec recharge unless you hit someone, then 20 sec recharge, 180 radius.

Rush: 1200 range, 628 damage, 20 second recharge.

So why exactly was Rtl nerfed yet rush remains untouched?

Quick math:

1. RTL was considered OP: 1500 range, 15 seconds CD.
They nerfed it to 1200 range, 40 seconds CD

Before: 1500/15 = 100 range/second
Now: 1200/40 = 30 range/second

It was nerfed by 70%
100*(100-30)/100= 70%

2. Healing Signet is considered OP. They nerf it by 8%

Conclusion: They are very careful at nerfing warriors but they don’t give a kitten about eles. This is why Rush isn’t nerfed

Hope this helped

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Posted by: Shockwave.1230

Shockwave.1230

This is just my opinion, but the biggest reason for the significant rtl nerfs was because of thief.

ANet has decided thief and warrior are two of the most important classes all balance should revolve around.

Because of the natural popularity of the elementalist class among players (due to it’s originally challenging but rewarding profession mechanics) and because ANet wanted thiefs to have the highest mobility (stated somewhere in these forums) RTL was nerfed pretty much into the ground. This was becuause a 1550 range skill on a 15 second cooldown meant offhand dagger eles pretty much hard countered any thief build (and lets be real, that’s an OP mobility skill with those numbers).

The warrior can pretty much hard counter thief mobility, but because it’s the warrior class and that’s a staple profession that ANet wants to balance around they haven’t taken immediate action. This really doesn’t mean much for RTL though.

tl;dr

To answer the OP’s question, it pretty much comes down to the thief being the reason RTL was nerfed in combination with the ele’s original popularity.

Because of the duration a thief will usually stay engaged in a fight, and the timing of when ele’s use RTL in combat, if Anet were to buff RTL I’d expect it to be somewhere along the lines of:

25 second recharge

or

30s cd, but 20s cd if you hit an enemy.

Sylvari Elementalist – Mystree Duskbloom (Lv 80)
Norn Guardian – Aurora Lustyr (Lv 80)
Mia A Shadows Glow – Human Thief (Lv 80)

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Posted by: oZii.2864

oZii.2864

I partly agree with Shockwave.

I think it was also l2P and other classes where still weak. They should have just reduced the range and thats it.

I always say to my guildies if Ele had all of its previous nerfs reverted RTL brought in line with 1200 range. Would it be OP in this current meta or still be overshadowed by Warrior for Roaming bunker or Thief for Burst? Those would be the roles that off hand dagger users would compete with D/D Ele with Warrior and S/D Ele’s with Thief.

[Good Fights]Sinndicate{Ele}Sinactic{Engineer}
Sinnastor{Warrior}Sinnacle{Mesmer}Sintacs
{Thief}

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Posted by: MightyMicah.7451

MightyMicah.7451

WvW reason: a few eles were kiting and killing zergs by themselves while recording it all.

Spvp/Tpvp reason: you could simply RTL away, reset fight, cleanse every condition on you in seconds and go back to cleave everything.

1. Show me these recordings. If you’re referring to daphoenix, one of the biggest and most frequent criticisms he received was that he “couldn’t kill anything.” Staying alive, despite a Zerg, and killing an entire Zerg are two quite different things. No Ele could solo a Zerg. Especially not a Zerg with warriors.

2. You can still ride the lightning, escape a fight, and cleanse all conditions. Just maybe not as often. Theives use stealth and short bow to get away and heal up, warriors use great swords, and Engi’s use rocket boots (plus a few other various skills). The difference is that these other classes can actually have decent damage while surviving.

My dear sir, I mean no offense to you in the least, but I believe your thoughts on Eles at the moment are gravely mistaken.

This is that new sound. Ya’ll ain’t ready.

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Posted by: Bsgapollo.5364

Bsgapollo.5364

I would make this in the warrior forum instead of here so some of them actually read it. The people who defend that class come up with some pretty hilarious replies sometimes. I think i saw one threatening to quit his warrior and play an easymode ele if his healing signet got nerfed, i wonder if he will ever get around to doing that.

Pretty sure he would to back to war within 5 mins. lol

Level 80 Elementalist, experienced player in pvp, trying out pve for now.

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Posted by: rhodoc.2381

rhodoc.2381

[VcY] Velocity – Gargamell

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Posted by: Tei.1704

Tei.1704

16 replies and nobody seems to have mentioned that rtl ignores every snare besides immobilize. Rush gets shutdown by cripple and chill, which were always easy to spam and stack. The nerf was still too harsh and biased, but there was a legitimate reason for nerfing rtl and no other mobility skill. Even if you only use it to run away, it’s still one of the most reliable short-term skills for that. Rush is bad for attacking because the damage is delayed after you reach your target. I honestly wouldn’t trade rtl for rush.

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Posted by: Kyon.9735

Kyon.9735

16 replies and nobody seems to have mentioned that rtl ignores every snare besides immobilize. Rush gets shutdown by cripple and chill, which were always easy to spam and stack. The nerf was still too harsh and biased, but there was a legitimate reason for nerfing rtl and no other mobility skill. Even if you only use it to run away, it’s still one of the most reliable short-term skills for that. Rush is bad for attacking because the damage is delayed after you reach your target. I honestly wouldn’t trade rtl for rush.

You should look both at the upside and the downside.

RTL ignores chill and cripple but doesn’t get any range bonus from swiftness. Rush is affected by chill and cripple but gets affected by swiftness.

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Posted by: Tei.1704

Tei.1704

You should look both at the upside and the downside.

RTL ignores chill and cripple but doesn’t get any range bonus from swiftness. Rush is affected by chill and cripple but gets affected by swiftness.

That’s such a small downside though. At a certain point, advantages and disadvantages are too small to be worth mentioning. The fact that you can’t get an additional 300 range is more than compensated for by never losing 600+ range. Plus, the current condition meta makes it an even better trade. You’re very likely to be snared and they are less likely to be the conditions removed.

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Posted by: Shockwave.1230

Shockwave.1230

Is it reality that warriors have a problem cleansing soft cc before using Rush

Sylvari Elementalist – Mystree Duskbloom (Lv 80)
Norn Guardian – Aurora Lustyr (Lv 80)
Mia A Shadows Glow – Human Thief (Lv 80)

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Posted by: I Am Dansker.7105

I Am Dansker.7105

You should look both at the upside and the downside.

RTL ignores chill and cripple but doesn’t get any range bonus from swiftness. Rush is affected by chill and cripple but gets affected by swiftness.

That’s such a small downside though. At a certain point, advantages and disadvantages are too small to be worth mentioning. The fact that you can’t get an additional 300 range is more than compensated for by never losing 600+ range. Plus, the current condition meta makes it an even better trade. You’re very likely to be snared and they are less likely to be the conditions removed.

I would happily switch RTL with rush

Far Shiverpeaks

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Posted by: Kyon.9735

Kyon.9735

You should look both at the upside and the downside.

RTL ignores chill and cripple but doesn’t get any range bonus from swiftness. Rush is affected by chill and cripple but gets affected by swiftness.

That’s such a small downside though. At a certain point, advantages and disadvantages are too small to be worth mentioning. The fact that you can’t get an additional 300 range is more than compensated for by never losing 600+ range. Plus, the current condition meta makes it an even better trade. You’re very likely to be snared and they are less likely to be the conditions removed.

Good. Done with comparing the range, now time to take a look at the cool down. For me, I’d love to swap Rush for RTL with its current mechanics anytime. I’d miss RTL’s damage for my S/D burst build though (well, Rush’s damage is almost 2x better) and I’m forced to reserve it from time to time as an escape mechanism and the fact that it misses a lot even when you’re supposed to hit your target and gives you a 40 second cool down.

Not to mention using RTL is a one-way ticket if you don’t hit anything while Rush doesn’t give a kitten if you hit something.

(edited by Kyon.9735)

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Posted by: Ant.3415

Ant.3415

I play both warrior and ele (mostly D/D) and I definitely prefer RTL as it is (though I QQ’d when it was nerfed) over Rush because Rush can get snared and has a pause for hit. Rush feels clunky and has really weird turning/tracking, whereas RTL seems faster and more crisp.

Sort of unrelated but I feel they need to buff the vitality of ele to make up for their inability to get out of situations they used to be able to more often.

As far as Healing Signet (HS) goes, those of you who QQ about this don’t realize that Warriors have 3 or 4 types of regeneration that help them out, it’s not just this one. HS heals for what, 480hps or something, and yes it’s passive, but they also have Adrenal Health, Regeneration (boon), and some specs carry banner regeneration (which gimps dps). All of which are passive, and they basically get no active heal with this build.

I’m sure it seems OP but play one and you’ll find the weaknesses (poison).

Don’t forget that while Ele’s have a signet too, they also have water attunement (active heals + regen + condi clear) and earth (stability and/or protection).

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Posted by: Odinsfury.8360

Odinsfury.8360

This is a very good question. I would like to see a dev response, but I know they are busy responding to posts which praise all of their good works.

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Posted by: oZii.2864

oZii.2864

This is a very good question. I would like to see a dev response, but I know they are busy responding to posts which praise all of their good works.

They have never responded to a question about RTL. It has been asked probably 100 times on this forum.

[Good Fights]Sinndicate{Ele}Sinactic{Engineer}
Sinnastor{Warrior}Sinnacle{Mesmer}Sintacs
{Thief}

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Posted by: phaeris.7604

phaeris.7604

I’m sure it seems OP but play one and you’ll find the weaknesses (poison).

Kind of off this topic, but considering most warriors run melandru, and only a few classes have poison access and warriors get best condition clear in the game, it’s not really a weakness.

Oh, they’re also nerfing poison field durations on the two classes who classes who had the most reliable way to land poisons. So you get it even easier now.

Anyway, back to RTL, it just seems there are alot of double standards in this game when it comes to abilities/utility cooldown,function and tier level. Especially elementalist cooldowns, it’s like every utility is an elite.

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Posted by: Arcturus.8109

Arcturus.8109

You’re very likely to be snared and they are less likely to be the conditions removed.

Swithing to air already gives you swiftness from trait. Not to say about updraft and zephys’s boon. So pretty much every RTL is casted from swiftness.

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Posted by: Kyon.9735

Kyon.9735

I play both warrior and ele (mostly D/D) and I definitely prefer RTL as it is (though I QQ’d when it was nerfed) over Rush because Rush can get snared and has a pause for hit. Rush feels clunky and has really weird turning/tracking, whereas RTL seems faster and more crisp.

Sort of unrelated but I feel they need to buff the vitality of ele to make up for their inability to get out of situations they used to be able to more often.

As far as Healing Signet (HS) goes, those of you who QQ about this don’t realize that Warriors have 3 or 4 types of regeneration that help them out, it’s not just this one. HS heals for what, 480hps or something, and yes it’s passive, but they also have Adrenal Health, Regeneration (boon), and some specs carry banner regeneration (which gimps dps). All of which are passive, and they basically get no active heal with this build.

I’m sure it seems OP but play one and you’ll find the weaknesses (poison).

Don’t forget that while Ele’s have a signet too, they also have water attunement (active heals + regen + condi clear) and earth (stability and/or protection).

This is kind of off topic.


The main difference is that warriors don’t need to invest a lot on something to get a decent sustain. Just equip healing signet and put 15 points in Discipline, that’s it you have more than decent sustain.

Adrenal Health is pretty much a “freebie” trait since it’s a Minor trait so you’ll see most decent warrior builds with at least 20 points in Defense to get a package of increased toughness, 33% soft CC reduction (Dogged March), more sustain (Adrenal Health), and condition cleanse (Cleansing Ire). They don’t even need to trait for regen on banners because HS and Adrenal Health alone are more than enough sustain.

About that “weakness” you call poison, phaeris has already talked about it. It doesn’t help that not all classes have access to that unless you specifically get Sigil of Doom just for the sole reason of countering 1 class. And another thing is that Anet is nerfing poison duration on 2 classes that have decent access to it.

(edited by Kyon.9735)

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Posted by: PSX.9250

PSX.9250

This is a very good question. I would like to see a dev response, but I know they are busy responding to posts which praise all of their good works.

Haha! Indeed.

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Posted by: Tei.1704

Tei.1704

Good. Done with comparing the range, now time to take a look at the cool down. For me, I’d love to swap Rush for RTL with its current mechanics anytime. I’d miss RTL’s damage for my S/D burst build though (well, Rush’s damage is almost 2x better) and I’m forced to reserve it from time to time as an escape mechanism and the fact that it misses a lot even when you’re supposed to hit your target and gives you a 40 second cool down.

Not to mention using RTL is a one-way ticket if you don’t hit anything while Rush doesn’t give a kitten if you hit something.

Yeah, the cooldown on rtl is bad. That’s the only noteworthy disadvantage it has compared to rush and most other mobility skills. The damage compared to rush is neutral because rtl deals damage faster and more reliably than rush at the price of lower damage when it does hit. Strengths are countered by weaknesses; that is what balance is.

Rtl got nerfed because it was better than nearly every other mobility skill. Rtl had the same movement per second as rush (it was a strong mobility skill), required pretty much the same investment (just equip the weapon) and it was way harder to counter (only stuns and immobilize will stop it). Rtl was op for the same reasons that warrior regen/sustain is op, which you had no problem pointing out. There are always people that ignore obviously op stuff their class has, but they have no problem identifying op things on other classes. The 40 second cooldown is arguably too much. Yes, anet is clearly biased for not nerfing healing signet more harshly when it has similar balance issues to rtl. Maybe you would have preferred a nerf to something other than cooldown, but there shouldn’t be any questions about why some kind of nerf was needed.

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Posted by: Pyriall.5027

Pyriall.5027

I will explain this in the simplest terms. A-net wanted to nerf Ele sustain and their ability to disengage. The problem, as is typical of A-net, they nerfed abilities without first fixing bugs. Sustain was strong because of EA and SoR multi-proc’ing. So instead of fixing those first they nerfed everything AND fixed them. And so, here we are…

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Posted by: Kyon.9735

Kyon.9735

Good. Done with comparing the range, now time to take a look at the cool down. For me, I’d love to swap Rush for RTL with its current mechanics anytime. I’d miss RTL’s damage for my S/D burst build though (well, Rush’s damage is almost 2x better) and I’m forced to reserve it from time to time as an escape mechanism and the fact that it misses a lot even when you’re supposed to hit your target and gives you a 40 second cool down.

Not to mention using RTL is a one-way ticket if you don’t hit anything while Rush doesn’t give a kitten if you hit something.

Yeah, the cooldown on rtl is bad. That’s the only noteworthy disadvantage it has compared to rush and most other mobility skills. The damage compared to rush is neutral because rtl deals damage faster and more reliably than rush at the price of lower damage when it does hit. Strengths are countered by weaknesses; that is what balance is.

Rtl got nerfed because it was better than nearly every other mobility skill. Rtl had the same movement per second as rush (it was a strong mobility skill), required pretty much the same investment (just equip the weapon) and it was way harder to counter (only stuns and immobilize will stop it). Rtl was op for the same reasons that warrior regen/sustain is op, which you had no problem pointing out. There are always people that ignore obviously op stuff their class has, but they have no problem identifying op things on other classes. The 40 second cooldown is arguably too much. Yes, anet is clearly biased for not nerfing healing signet more harshly when it has similar balance issues to rtl. Maybe you would have preferred a nerf to something other than cooldown, but there shouldn’t be any questions about why some kind of nerf was needed.

It is being compared to Rush because it’s the closest skill similar to it out of all mobility skills in the game.

If you ask me, I’d personally like to have it at 20/25~30s CD for the things you’ve pointed out. The real reason why people say that Rush is better is because of the cooldown differences. RTL’s pros does not give justice for its cons.

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Posted by: Pyriall.5027

Pyriall.5027

Good. Done with comparing the range, now time to take a look at the cool down. For me, I’d love to swap Rush for RTL with its current mechanics anytime. I’d miss RTL’s damage for my S/D burst build though (well, Rush’s damage is almost 2x better) and I’m forced to reserve it from time to time as an escape mechanism and the fact that it misses a lot even when you’re supposed to hit your target and gives you a 40 second cool down.

Not to mention using RTL is a one-way ticket if you don’t hit anything while Rush doesn’t give a kitten if you hit something.

Yeah, the cooldown on rtl is bad. That’s the only noteworthy disadvantage it has compared to rush and most other mobility skills. The damage compared to rush is neutral because rtl deals damage faster and more reliably than rush at the price of lower damage when it does hit. Strengths are countered by weaknesses; that is what balance is.

Rtl got nerfed because it was better than nearly every other mobility skill. Rtl had the same movement per second as rush (it was a strong mobility skill), required pretty much the same investment (just equip the weapon) and it was way harder to counter (only stuns and immobilize will stop it). Rtl was op for the same reasons that warrior regen/sustain is op, which you had no problem pointing out. There are always people that ignore obviously op stuff their class has, but they have no problem identifying op things on other classes. The 40 second cooldown is arguably too much. Yes, anet is clearly biased for not nerfing healing signet more harshly when it has similar balance issues to rtl. Maybe you would have preferred a nerf to something other than cooldown, but there shouldn’t be any questions about why some kind of nerf was needed.

It is being compared to Rush because it’s the closest skill similar to it out of all mobility skills in the game.

If you ask me, I’d personally like to have it at 20/25~30s CD for the things you’ve pointed out. The real reason why people say that Rush is better is because of the cooldown differences. RTL’s pros does not give justice for its cons.

It’s not just rush vs rtl, you have rush and whirling attack, both of which are on modest cd’s.

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Posted by: der don.9854

der don.9854

If i’m not mistaken, 2 main reasons caused the changes in April 2013 (i think some devs talked about it in a sotg in march or april):
- the complaints about ele as uber-orb-carrier in spirit watch (although that was debateble event at that time)
- the combination of mobility and sustain, that allowed the ele to contest a point permanently

So they combined bugfixing and “careful shaving of skills and traits” to tone down the high mobility boon bunker…
And, as we all know, they did a really good job there… after all bunkereles are no problem in spvp anymore…

Disclaimer: this post may contain sarcasm, read at your own risk!

Narrenturm [Narr] – DL
Nomen est omen!

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Posted by: LordByron.8369

LordByron.8369

RTL vs Rush, why were we nerfed again?

Answer was given already:
Spirit watch

P.S. oh derdon said it first ( ._.)
But the rest of the post wasn t really the reason…
Also my signature was an interview before ele “shavings”

GW2 balance:
A PvE player is supposed to avoid a 1-2 second 1 shotting aoe.
A WWW player is considered uncapable of avoiding a 5,75 second aoe for half his health.

(edited by LordByron.8369)

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Posted by: ComeAtMe.5932

ComeAtMe.5932

I love the ELE q.q on forums whenever someone refers to another class being OP.

After playing an elementalist since beta on GW2, I think it’s fair to say I have tried out a lot of different things on elementalist. More to the point I think that many people underrate RTL as it is now; it’s a ridiculously high damage ranged attack which offers insane mobility. Mainly the nerf on RTL cooldown has just added a simple skillcap to the skill which so many ELE’s love to moan about; if you pull of something which not every other idiot in WvW or Spvp can do, it gives a much more rewarding gameplay experience.

The reason even comparing this skill to the warriors Rush (GS 5) is halarious is because it’s like me comparing the firepower of a flamethrower compared to a squirtle’s waterblast; the other skills that dagger offhand offers are updraft which is an AoE 5 man knockdown for 2 seconds. Taking this into account when looking at the greatsword 4 and 5 skills is that the greatsword on warrior offers literally a ranged cripple. This move isn’t even used by warriors unless the warrior is facerolling like a wild turnip. Taking into account the greatsword’s skills as a whole does not even come close to how puny the elementalist D/D skills or even the S/D skills make them look. On one hand you have a an insane damage autoattack, weakness on demand and an aura that completely shuts down melee classes, and on the greatsword you have an average auto attack, hundred blades which require a lot of cc to pull off and a spin which does decent damage.

ELE as a class is just a mechanically complex class which offers rewarding gameplay and I think that after playing an ELE for this long the nerfs have been completely justified to stop the elementalist class from becoming a massive faceroll like some of the warrior builds.

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Posted by: Boo.5167

Boo.5167

Just got hit by Rush for 3,789 with 3100 Armor and 2,159 toughness. I been trying to play the not so standard builds and classes but it is starting to get a bit discouraging to be kitten near instagibbed by some of these classes, mainly thieves and warriors.

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

Quick math:

1. RTL was considered OP: 1500 range, 15 seconds CD.
They nerfed it to 1200 range, 40 seconds CD

Before: 1500/15 = 100 range/second
Now: 1200/40 = 30 range/second

It was nerfed by 70%
100*(100-30)/100= 70%

2. Healing Signet is considered OP. They nerf it by 8%

Conclusion: They are very careful at nerfing warriors but they don’t give a kitten about eles. This is why Rush isn’t nerfed

Hope this helped

Sad but true. You can bet the active of Healing Signet will get more than a 8% buff as well to compensate. It doesn’t even deserve to be buffed 8% nerf is like 38Hps loss, that is NOTHING worthy of a buff.

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Posted by: Shockwave.1230

Shockwave.1230

I love the ELE q.q on forums whenever someone refers to another class being OP.

After playing an elementalist since beta on GW2, I think it’s fair to say I have tried out a lot of different things on elementalist. More to the point I think that many people underrate RTL as it is now; it’s a ridiculously high damage ranged attack which offers insane mobility. Mainly the nerf on RTL cooldown has just added a simple skillcap to the skill which so many ELE’s love to moan about; if you pull of something which not every other idiot in WvW or Spvp can do, it gives a much more rewarding gameplay experience.

The reason even comparing this skill to the warriors Rush (GS 5) is halarious is because it’s like me comparing the firepower of a flamethrower compared to a squirtle’s waterblast; the other skills that dagger offhand offers are updraft which is an AoE 5 man knockdown for 2 seconds. Taking this into account when looking at the greatsword 4 and 5 skills is that the greatsword on warrior offers literally a ranged cripple. This move isn’t even used by warriors unless the warrior is facerolling like a wild turnip. Taking into account the greatsword’s skills as a whole does not even come close to how puny the elementalist D/D skills or even the S/D skills make them look. On one hand you have a an insane damage autoattack, weakness on demand and an aura that completely shuts down melee classes, and on the greatsword you have an average auto attack, hundred blades which require a lot of cc to pull off and a spin which does decent damage.

ELE as a class is just a mechanically complex class which offers rewarding gameplay and I think that after playing an ELE for this long the nerfs have been completely justified to stop the elementalist class from becoming a massive faceroll like some of the warrior builds.

This post lacks acknowledgement of the valid points presented in comparing RTL to other gap closers. Look at ranger, warrior, thief, engi, guardian, and do skill comparisons between the gap closers and analyze the impacts they have in combat.

It also doesn’t acknowledge that comparing greatsword to any ele weapon set is an incomplete comparison because Warriors can weapon swap as their builds are defined by two weapon sets.

This discussion about RTL shows that members of the community are expecting more available gap closing in combat from the elementalist. As it’s far easier for ANet to adjust numbers on existing gap closing skills than introduce gap closing skills on other skills it’s only logical to talk about the staple gap closing skill of the elementalist.

Sylvari Elementalist – Mystree Duskbloom (Lv 80)
Norn Guardian – Aurora Lustyr (Lv 80)
Mia A Shadows Glow – Human Thief (Lv 80)

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Posted by: Julie Yann.5379

Julie Yann.5379

I main a Warrior. I would be fine with a nerf to Rush if Anet actually fixed the effin thing. The only time it ever actually hits anything is when you are point blank. The RTL nerf from 1500 to 1200 wasn’t a nerf, it was a bug fix. I wouldn’t mind them changed the CD’s RTL either.

Be careful what you wish for, Anet might just give it to you “HoT”
“…let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we shall die;.”

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Posted by: BlackBeard.2873

BlackBeard.2873

As has been pointed out before, one of the PRIMARY issuse with RTL was its 1550 range, which basically made it a 1-button, get out of combat ability. This meant you could just RTL away at low health and you would end up getting out-of-combat and able to fully heal up. Current RTL still leaves you in enemy range to get pew-pew-pew’d down, so you have to use it MUCH earlier to have ANY chance to get away if the opponent wants to pursue.

The CD nerf means that eles can’t reposition in a fight effectively, can’t get away when pursued (unless they use RtL AND FGS), and can’t stick to their opponents as effectively despite being range-locked (which is also why RtL ignores soft CC btw – warriors CAN swap to a ranged weapon if being kited). Going back to a 20s CD would be justified and workable at this point, giving eles acceptable mobility in PvP and WvW, but still not giving them the get-out-jail-free card that it used to be.

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Posted by: Pwent.2639

Pwent.2639

Pre rtl nerf eles fell on the op side of unbalanced and if you started to take them down all they had to do was mistform rtl and they vanished… then they got nerfed hard in all the soft places. I dont mind the rtl nerf but would like something to make up for the mistform one.

Ida

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Posted by: Gallrvaghn.4921

Gallrvaghn.4921

Pre rtl nerf eles fell on the op side of unbalanced and if you started to take them down all they had to do was mistform rtl and they vanished… then they got nerfed hard in all the soft places. I dont mind the rtl nerf but would like something to make up for the mistform one.

Yeah nerfing one or the other strong aspect of D/D ele would have been more merciful. Instead, they nerfed EVERYTHING ele got across the board. Now look at what happened.

“The boss you just killed respawns ten minutes
later. It doesn’t care that I’m there.”

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Posted by: Fuzzion.2504

Fuzzion.2504

The reason why folks complain about the RTL nerf is that it was hit with 3 nerfs , 1 was the distance, 2 was the cooldown and 3 was the effect of gravity on the skill that made it feel like ride the rock.

Leave the distance, but hit it with 2 and 3, but all the nerfs combined was uncalled for.

Fuzzionx [SF]
Guest member of [LOVE]
JQ official Prime Minister

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Posted by: Trixie.7614

Trixie.7614

Switch to warrior. I did. I’m being happy ever since. My damage doubled, my hp increased, my usefulness in parties also increased.

Glorious Human Master Race

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Posted by: Nabuko Darayon.9645

Nabuko Darayon.9645

With Rush you still take damage while RTL was invincible.

~ King Arian and Isabella of [EG] ~

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Posted by: ArmageddonAsh.6430

ArmageddonAsh.6430

It is simple: The Devs play Warriors. They will NOT fix the class. This has already been proven. They are SO very happy (and wrong most of the time) in how they nerf classes yet when it comes to Warriors – a pathetic 8% nerf to the BEST regen in the WHOLE game which will be more than countered by the fact the active will be given a good 20%+ buff. Anet are the reason the game will NEVER be balanced. Having a dev team play ONE class is VERY poor decision

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Posted by: scerevisiae.1972

scerevisiae.1972

well they should never have nerfed the anti-gravity aspect of RTL, perhaps the most fun thing in the whole game died that day.

As for the CD and distance, it was definitely overnerfed. 25sec 1200range or 15sec 900 range seem like the sweet spot IMO.

downed state is bad for PVP

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Posted by: P Fun Daddy.1208

P Fun Daddy.1208

well they should never have nerfed the anti-gravity aspect of RTL, perhaps the most fun thing in the whole game died that day.

As for the CD and distance, it was definitely overnerfed. 25sec 1200range or 15sec 900 range seem like the sweet spot IMO.

Yeah, it was pretty entertaining to get to all those high-up spots you normally couldn’t reach.

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Posted by: Axelwarrior.9084

Axelwarrior.9084

Rush is much slower and more predictable.
It’s a high-risk/high-reward skill, unlike RTL.

Also, you can’t really judge the skills individually. They’re part of a different kit, therefore have different roles and uses.