Guild Wars 2

Bringing up the lack of ranged options that are effective in 1v1 scenarios again. (The scepter requires you to get close to be effective; I define ranged effectiveness as the ability to kill your opponent without closing from 900+ range.) Will elementalists ever see ranged capability that can compete with, say, mesmers and necromancers?

This is important to me because I hate playing without without being effective at range, and I mainly roam solo in WvW.

I will not simply play another class, because given the lore and class themes, I can’t justify playing as any other.

lollatenightcomplaintthread

scepter doesn’t deadlock you in close combat merely gives you the option to move in for the kill whenever you please. Air is pretty effective in long range. If you’re going single target condition then fire and earth have decent auto-attacks at 900 range. Fact is that even if you’re ranged enemies in wvw will always close in on you so since you can burst in close-range I really don’t see what the problem is. Otherwise you can always updraft RTL away and start from ranged again.

Necromancers don’t have such powerful gap-enlargers as the elementalist does. Mesmers are op… But elementalist is pretty decent in ranged and close combat just not pidgeon holded in either long or short range.

I don’t think it’s the Scepter’s fault – while the weapon does have lots of flaws, it is only a bit more effective at melee than at range (Phoenix is easier to hit).

The reason everyone says the scepter is a ‘close-ranged’ weapon is because it is almost always paired up with an offhand dagger, which is close ranged. Because of the stupidly long delay (I’m looking at you, Dragon’s Tooth) on everything, it can only be landed with the offhand dagger CC abilities. Trying to set up a Phoenix + DT burst combo without any knockdowns is just not possible. The easiest S/D combo involves air attunement because you can’t miss with those spells (notice how there aren’t many videos of people using DT+Phoenix+Fire Grab to blow things up, because landing it is hard and you have to get lucky)

As another point, consider S/F. It’s not a close ranged set, even though the scepter is used. Once again, it shows that the problem with the scepter isn’t that it is better in melee (it is better, but not by much), but that it is terrible for hitting anything that moves.

TLDR: Easy way to fix Scepter to be ok at range is to make everything faster (and reduce the damage?) or make focus have more ranged snares. The spells themselves don’t favor any particular range.

Edit: Edited for more clarity

Sunflowers.1729:

I don’t think it’s the Scepter’s fault – while the weapon does have lots of flaws, it is only a bit more effective at melee than at range (Phoenix is easier to hit).

The reason everyone says the scepter is a ‘close-ranged’ weapon is because it is almost always paired up with an offhand dagger, which is close ranged. Because of the stupidly long delay (I’m looking at you, Dragon’s Tooth) on everything, it can only be landed with the offhand dagger CC abilities. Trying to set up a Phoenix + DT burst combo without any knockdowns is just not possible. The most effective S/D combo involves air attunement because you can’t miss with those spells (notice how there aren’t any videos of people using DT+Phoenix+Fire Grab to blow things up, because landing it is hard and you have to get lucky)

As another point, consider S/F. It’s not a close ranged set, even though the scepter is used. Once again, it shows that the problem with the scepter isn’t that it is better in melee (it is better, but not by much), but that it is terrible for hitting anything that moves.

TLDR: Easy way to fix Scepter to be ok at range is to make everything faster (and reduce the damage?) or make focus have more ranged snares. The spells themselves don’t favor any particular range.

half of the focus skills don’t do damage, When they change that is when I’ll start using S/F for ranged combat.

Better scepter autoattacks and a more damage oriented focus with more hard CC (trading an AoE knockdown for a ranged AoE daze with a small radius isn’t so great) would be an effective solution, but it’s highly unlikely that the latter would ever become a reality, as it would require a complete rework of the weapon.

Maybe we could get a torch offhand or something, instead.

This is exactly why we need torch/pistol offhand

Focus is pretty great at what it does, I wouldn’t want to change it, but there is a space for a 600-900 range damage offhand.

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

scepter doesn’t deadlock you in close combat merely gives you the option to move in for the kill whenever you please. Air is pretty effective in long range. If you’re going single target condition then fire and earth have decent auto-attacks at 900 range. Fact is that even if you’re ranged enemies in wvw will always close in on you so since you can burst in close-range I really don’t see what the problem is. Otherwise you can always updraft RTL away and start from ranged again.

Necromancers don’t have such powerful gap-enlargers as the elementalist does. Mesmers are op… But elementalist is pretty decent in ranged and close combat just not pidgeon holded in either long or short range.

That’s the problem..you should be perfectly able to kill an opponent from distance without getting close, if not you lose all reasons to be at range

No you most certainly should not be able easily kill people with a max range weapon. That is not balance imagine how stupidly op it would be to be a staff ele in zerker gear and drop someone with ccs and damage before they can even get close. The staff might need something of a buff but it shouldn’t be damage.

NeXeD.3042:

No you most certainly should not be able easily kill people with a max range weapon. That is not balance imagine how stupidly op it would be to be a staff ele in zerker gear and drop someone with ccs and damage before they can even get close. The staff might need something of a buff but it shouldn’t be damage.

LOL!
What are you on about?
Mesmers-rangers-warriors-engineers-thieves-necros can kill people from max distance!And only in the warrior or necro cases it would make a difference if you get close

-Warrior rifle= 12k killshot at 1220 range on 1500 toughness target
-Rangers=..well no need for introductions, he’s got enough traps to kill any of your attempts to get close enough
-Mesmer= phase retreat away every 8s, chaos armor to cripple/chill you at distance, chaos field to daze/cripple/chill you at distance…clones apply conditions and you die slowly
-Engineers= 900 range condition spammer
-Necro= a well spammer from 1200 range
-Staff ele= kill nobody as people walk away from any possible dmg skill and laugh at their 2s CC on very very long CD, enemy get close and staff ele become free kill

And yet nobody has been able to kill me from far away. Closest thing was a god kitten ed ranger against my necro.

NeXeD.3042:

That is not balance imagine how stupidly op it would be to be a staff ele in zerker gear and drop someone with ccs and damage before they can even get close.

That would indeed not be balanced.

However, I don’t care about dropping someone before they can get close (relative to other games, melee combatants have fewer gap closers, which is made up for by lower ranged damage), I just want to be able to kill someone without closing distance. Currently, the scepter doesn’t allow that, and the staff doesn’t work in 1v1s, so, yeah.

Chaosky.5276:

NeXeD.3042:

That is not balance imagine how stupidly op it would be to be a staff ele in zerker gear and drop someone with ccs and damage before they can even get close.

That would indeed not be balanced.

However, I don’t care about dropping someone before they can get close (relative to other games, melee combatants have fewer gap closers, which is made up for by lower ranged damage), I just want to be able to kill someone without closing distance. Currently, the scepter doesn’t allow that, and the staff doesn’t work in 1v1s, so, yeah.

Then you would have to be fighting golems in the mist. If you come across anyone that is setup to deal with range and melee attacks via traits or weapon sets they are going to switch to the one that gives them some kind of advantage or evens the odds a bit.

You need CC to keep them from closing distance that would be focus or staff. As far as you not having to close distance your choice is scepter/focus or staff thats it. In order for you to create a gap you need CC which again is scepter/focus or staff.

Melee will usually 9/10 pack more punch than ranged in this game as I feel it should. Melee is going to want to close the gap and will blow cooldowns to close that gap. Focus provides the CC to keep people at distance enough. That imo I know people don’t like focus much but I mess with it from time to time and it is actually pretty good if you look at the focus skills as defense which is what they all are. So you have to pick dagger main hand or scepter for damage and scepter wins for range.

For focus I like earth cd reduction and water that gives you a daze and chill on pretty short cooldowns basically another cantrip with earth 5 and a reflect on earth 4. Then you throw in the knock down on air and swirling winds. The worst focus skill imo is fire 4 not sure what they thought with that one.

I would do something like maybe 0/0/30/20/30 then grab damage from gear and trinkets runes etc with written in stone and run signet of water or earth for some extra cc maybe fire for extra damage. Or grap something like stone splinters for +5% damage and salt stone for +10% damage.

Stone splinters is 600 range even though the tooltip says 50 there is a video on youtube with a test showing the trait in action. So when someone does get close you will have more burst.

oZii.2864:

*snip*

I don’t care if my enemy gets close to me, I want to be effective without getting close to them.

Also, ele condition damage builds are pretty bad. They can work, but attunement cooldowns, low healing, and a lack of cover conditions make them rather poor.

The only scepter skill that is more effective within melee would be phoenix (and you can still cast this at range to hit your opponent 3 times if they are stunned or imbolized) or while you are running away. Most of my kills as s/d or s/f ele within wvw happens at 600-900 range and I solo roam almost every night for at least 2 hours and a half.

LightningBlaze.4913:

The only scepter skill that is more effective within melee would be phoenix (and you can still cast this at range to hit your opponent 3 times if they are stunned or imbolized) or while you are running away.

True, but then you have to consider that the focus is useless for damage, so I have to take the dagger, which means I’ll spend a lot of time in close quarters.

Also, aside from Signet of Earth, I don’t think we have any CC that’ll keep enemies in place long enough for a max-range Phoenix to hit, and you may as well use it for Dragon’s Tooth if you actually take it.

Chaosky.5276:

oZii.2864:

snip

I don’t care if my enemy gets close to me, I want to be effective without getting close to them.

Also, ele condition damage builds are pretty bad. They can work, but attunement cooldowns, low healing, and a lack of cover conditions make them rather poor.

I wasnt suggesting to go condi at all. The reason I said those 2 traits is because they will give you +10% damage at range. Bleeding is really easy to cause with scepter.

Focus is all about CC focus isnt about damage its about CC and defense. I can’t think of any class in this game that can keep a enemy at range consistently and win.

Focus is your defense. You could go 30 air take grounded trait for +20 damage to knockdown foe, then maybe bolt to the heart and possibly air training. Pop Gale for the knockdown and boom +20% damage right there maybe you can squeeze a dragon tooth on it.

oZii.2864:

I wasnt suggesting to go condi at all. The reason I said those 2 traits is because they will give you +10% damage at range. Bleeding is really easy to cause with scepter.

In regard to offense, I get far more from points in Air than in Earth, so I’m utterly baffled as to why you’re suggesting this.

oZii.2864:

Focus is all about CC focus isnt about damage its about CC and defense. I can’t think of any class in this game that can keep a enemy at range consistently and win.

I don’t think you understand what I’m saying. I don’t care if enemies can get within melee range, I want an option that doesn’t require me to run up to them if I intend to win a 1v1.
An offensive ranged offhand is probably the best way to allow for this.

Chaosky.5276:

oZii.2864:

I wasnt suggesting to go condi at all. The reason I said those 2 traits is because they will give you +10% damage at range. Bleeding is really easy to cause with scepter.

In regard to offense, I get far more from points in Air than in Earth, so I’m utterly baffled as to why you’re suggesting this.

oZii.2864:

Focus is all about CC focus isnt about damage its about CC and defense. I can’t think of any class in this game that can keep a enemy at range consistently and win.

I don’t think you understand what I’m saying. I don’t care if enemies can get within melee range, I want an option that doesn’t require me to run up to them if I intend to win a 1v1.
An offensive ranged offhand is probably the best way to allow for this.

I understand what your saying but what your asking for doesnt exist as there is no offensive offhand for elementalist. Unless your just suggesting there should be one.

oZii.2864:

Unless your just suggesting there should be one.

That’s what he has been doing

Honestly, just reroll mesmer. GS is a much better ranged weapon than anything the Ele has, and sword/focus craps on Ele D/D for burst at close range too.

I mean, it’s been nearly a year since beta and nothing has really changed for Ele. They don’t care.

Actually GS is TOTALLY different from Staff.

I said this on another thread, comparing classes is stupid. Staff Elementalist is focused on Aoe damage and Aoe control.