Refining a Build
It’s a essentially a Fresh Air build that I use for dungeoning/fractaling.
Fresh Air isn’t worth using in dungeons. From the comments section of my guide…
@ Assassin: Let’s look at the dmg you get from traiting into Fresh Air. It comes from 2 sources: the 15 minor in Air, which does single-target dmg when swapping to Air, and Lightning Strike, the Scepter 2 Air instant-attack, which is on a 5 sec CD, the same CD as Fresh Air. You can play it in 2 ways: either stacking Might with s/f and trying to fit in burst via Air 15 and Lightning Strike via Fresh Air, or forgetting about Might stacking and trying to maximize burst dmg via those 2 sources.
Trying to fit Fresh Air burst into s/f Might stacking rotation:
Fire 2 > Fire 4 > Fire 3 & Arcane Wave > Air Atune & Air 2 & Arcane Brilliance > Earth Atune > Earth 4 > Water Atune > Water 5 > summon/pick up LH > 6 complete LH AA chains > Air Atune > 2 complete LH AA chains > Fire Atune & drop LH > repeatBecause you swapped to Air to activate Air 15 and use Air 2 between Fire and Earth Atunes, your LH hits 1.625 secs later than it would have had you not gone Air. This means it does not combo Area Might, since your fire field expires before the first chain finishes. The extra dmg you do by using Air 2 and 15 do NOT compensate for losing 15 Might total (3 stacks * 5 party members). Therefore, if you’re trying to maximize group dmg, Fresh Air is useless.
You might be thinking “well, why don’t I atune swap while using the LH to activate Air 15 more often, instead of staying in Water with the LH?” If you swap out of Water, you lose the 20% dmg modifier – and that is FAR more important that the amount of dmg you get via Air 15.
The alternative is to abandon Might stacking and try to use Fresh Air to activate Air 2 and 15 the maximum number of times. Assuming you don’t trait into Arcana, you have a 13 sec CD on each Atune and a 1.625 global Atune CD, as I said before. Fresh Air also has a 5 sec internal CD. Air AA w/ scepter has a 3.5 sec duration. If you are PERFECT at timing Atune swaps (and I mean perfect) and lucky with crits, that means you can:
Time: 0.000: start in Atune 1, swap to Air to activate Air 15, AA in Air and use 2 while channeling,
Time: 1.625: swap to your 2nd atune while channeling,
Time: 2.000: assume an instant crit with the channel and instantly swap back to Air, activating Air 15,
Time: 3.500: start a 2nd Air AA,
Time: 3.625: swap to Atune 2,
Time: 7.000: assume the last tick of the Air AA channel crits, and swap to Air to activate Air 15. Use Air 2. AA in Air
Time: 8.625: swap to Atune 3
Time: 10.500: Air AA ends; start to AA in Atune 3
Time: 12.000: Assume the Atune 3 AA crits, and swap to Air to activate Air 15. Use Air 2. Start to AA in Air
Time: 13.625: Swap to Atune 1, continue to AA Air channel.
… etcWhat problems do you see with a rotation like this, that makes maximum use of Fresh Air, Air 15 minor, and Scepter Air 2 attack? I see a bunch: no Might stacking (and I proved in the previous example that losing even a single Area Might combo is disastrous), and you’re spending a LOT of time using the Scepter’s weak AA… oh, and of course, it’s humanly impossible to maintain a rotation like that to the 3rd decimal place of a second. The first 2 secs of rotation are very good burst; after that, though, Fresh Air doesn’t do much for you. Average DPS over a 30-sec time period is FAR lower than what you’d get with the rotation I showed in this vid, using the LH: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeRhQ40ckQ4
That reply assumed scepter + FA. Lightning Whip + FA is better, but then you lose 2x blasts for might stacking. And if you’re gonna be in melee range for Lightning Whip, you might as well use scepter + LH. The only dungeon where I’d ever use Lightning Whip over LH is the last boss of HotW p1 for the slightly greater range.
Click the link to the meta guide in my sig and choose an LH build or the fire-staff one.
If you had taken time to look at the link I provided, you’d have seen I was running Dagger/Focus.
The reason for focus is the large amount of utility and survivability is brings to a group, and while the lightning hammer is nice it is purely DPS. The loss of damage I incur by not consistently using the hammer is marginal compared to the group protection and personal survivability offered by just.. not using it.
Lightning Hammer is fantastic for a might spam fury stacking build that focuses on pewpewpew, but since that sort of build is relative trash in an uncoordinated group and further still you didn’t even bother to address the real question which revolved around what gear to focus on:
Thank you for taking the time to read nothing.
If you had taken time to look at the link I provided, you’d have seen I was running Dagger/Focus.
Obviously I did look at it, or I wouldn’t have referenced Lightning Whip (below).
That reply assumed scepter + FA. Lightning Whip + FA is better, but then you lose 2x blasts for might stacking. And if you’re gonna be in melee range for Lightning Whip, you might as well use scepter + LH. The only dungeon where I’d ever use Lightning Whip over LH is the last boss of HotW p1 for the slightly greater range.
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The reason for focus is the large amount of utility and survivability is brings to a group, and while the lightning hammer is nice it is purely DPS. The loss of damage I incur by not consistently using the hammer is marginal compared to the group protection and personal survivability offered by just.. not using it.
Focus does not bring a “large amount of utility and survivability to a group.” It brings a minor extent of survivability to you (Magnetic Wave and Obsidian Flesh) and a single utility to the group which is actually detrimental to DPS because it destroys projectiles rather than reflecting them (Swirling Winds).
The lightning hammer is not “purely DPS.” It has significant utility. The first 2 attacks in its AA chain are cleave. The 3rd attack in its AA chain is 5-target AoE, blind, and a blast finisher. The 3 attack is a CC. The 5 attack is a stun similar to Line of Warding.
You do not offer “group protection” by not using the LH. The only protection you can give is via EA in Earth, which isn’t worth getting for PvE. Even if it were, you could still swap to Earth to give protection while using the LH. As far as group survivability goes, which is what I’m guessing you meant but was phrased quite poorly, using the LH in Water maintains Healing Mist for your group, so it actually does more for them than swapping between atunes and spending most of your time in Air, as you do with a FA build.
As far as “personal survivability” goes, if you’re using MH dagger, you’ll spend most of your time using Lightning Whip, so you’ll already be in melee range. For 90% of combat in dungeons, you’re stacking everything anyway, so there is no downside to using LH. It won’t be detrimental towards your own or your group’s survivability; in fact, it will be beneficial. With an LH build, you’ll also be using focus, so you still have Obsidian Flesh if you need it. Furthermore, you’ll be using scepter as well, so that’s 2x additional blast finishers and a faster heal, Trident (channeling Cone of Cold is a DPS loss).
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Lightning Hammer is fantastic for a might spam fury stacking build that focuses on pewpewpew, but since that sort of build is relative trash in an uncoordinated group
For pug’ing I run 30/30/0/10/0 s/d LH. That’s as glassy as it gets; the only concessions to DPS I make are minor: 1) the 10 points in Water for Healing Mist instead of putting then in Earth and AA’ing in Air; and 2) OH dagger instead of focus for the larger fire field and Cleansing Wave. I rarely die, and then only because: 1) the group wipes; or 2) at the end of a boss fight when Arcane Shield and my dodges have run out. The second event rarely happens because when I pug I always ask for a gear ping, and zerk pugs are perfectly capable of killing bosses long before my dodges/Arcane Shield runs out.
(edited by Anierna.6918)
Thank you for taking the time to read nothing.
I read your original post. I addressed it in my initial response. I’ll quote your OP below, since you seem to have forgotten what it actually contained:
I’m beginning to work towards Ascended Gear and curious if I should continue down my ‘Zerks or bust’ path, or if perhaps it would serve myself and my group better if I built to live longer, or utilized the bigger stat gain of Celestial gear.
- I would love advice on the build, if there’s more efficient ways to damage or support without losing much one way or another. The utility of focus for dungeons despite possibly being subpar is pretty hard to argue with.
-Group utility is nice. I’m open to trying a completely different build before deciding as long as I bring competitive damage and useful things such as projectile destruction and CC
You “would love advice on the build.” I gave you advice: don’t use FA. I explained why it’s not worth using. I even gave you the link to alternative builds that work better in dungeons. The LH builds in particular have far greater utility and do far higher dmg than your d/f build, for reasons I’ve stated previously. Regarding focus, you still use it in LH builds for optimal might-stacking prior to summoning/picking-up the LH, so it is most definitely not “subpar.”
You’re “open to trying a completely different build before deciding as long as I bring competitive damage and useful things.” s/f LH builds fulfill both these criteria better than your current d/f build.
Regarding optimal gear, “if you had taken the time to look at the link I provided, you’d have seen I was running” full zerk/assassins for every single one of my meta builds.
Post edited by moderator
(edited by Moderator)
Except you’re not really helping him, you’re telling him what to do. The OP wants to optimize the build in his link. What you’re telling him is to go play scepter/lightning hammer instead. That’s not improving a build, that’s pointing him to a different build and that wasn’t the question.
There are far more knowledgeable people on this forum than. I’m just one of those people, and I’m not nearly as sarcastic/unhelpful as most of them. I do spend the time to read posts and give helpful replies. It’s not my fault that you misinterpreted what I wrote due to your ignorance of the class.
That’s just rude.
If you can read this then it is proof that ArenaNet’s moderators just, kind and fair.
Celestial armor will do nicely since it’s the most expensive part. All else should probably be zerkers (easier to get another durable set for wvw). Given 20+ stacks of might your damage loss won’t be too dramatic, and that armor can be used in WvW as well as an added bonus.
As for the traits, I never liked fresh air on D/x. To be honest I would go 0/15/10/15/30, picking up damage modifiers in water and earth while giving out good heals+protection.
Also not really a big fan of armor of earth in dungeons. My bar is usually something like LH, arcane shield/wave, lightning flash/mist form. Sometimes signet of fire if really easy content.
Obviously far from a dps optimal build, but pugs be pugging.
I find a more durable playstyle much more fun, for the rare occasions where the party wipes and I have to finish something alone, or have to constantly be ressing people.
I’ve heard mix reviews of celestial, but know that the damage loss wasn’t huge. The build I use currently doesn’t offer nearly as much might stacking as the Bunker-esque build does with Dagger/Dagger, but the Focus utility is pretty nice. I hadn’t really considered swapping out Armor of Earth, perhaps Lightning Flash would be worth trying over it for the faster stun break.
Scepter is kept for ranged content, though I was wondering if Staff wouldn’t offer better utility, perhaps I should look into a more flexible variation for both.
If you’re going for a Dagger build, I’d suggest shorter air cooldowns…especially with focus, over more damage in air.
I would also suggest Cleansing Fire over Mist Form so you have a cleanse (since D/F has none innately).
For PvE, I always find Staff builds to be much slower and duller even though some theorize that it can pump out the most damage. Scepter would work better for you if you need range because it’s pretty good at almost any range…though excels in melee with all the blast finishers.
Magichemist Zeke – Asura Elementalist [TC]
An Insane(ly Intelligent) Genius!
“Did you just tell me the rules? Never tell me the rules!”
An Insane(ly Intelligent) Genius!
“Did you just tell me the rules? Never tell me the rules!”
If you’re going for a Dagger build, I’d suggest shorter air cooldowns…especially with focus, over more damage in air.
I would also suggest Cleansing Fire over Mist Form so you have a cleanse (since D/F has none innately).
For PvE, I always find Staff builds to be much slower and duller even though some theorize that it can pump out the most damage. Scepter would work better for you if you need range because it’s pretty good at almost any range…though excels in melee with all the blast finishers.
Between the Condi removal on water attune, and Focus 4 in Earth, I actually have fairly solid condition removal.
I would like to remain with dagger out of preference, and I’ve not seen any real compelling reason to use staff over Dagger or Scepter sans a build that focuses on Lava Font spam.
tl;dr Version:
-The damage loss from going from Zerkers to Celestial: is it worth the survivability/support increase? Would it be worth using Traveler’s Runes over Scholar’s for that reasoning as well?
-Is it worth going deeply into Arcane for the extra support once again, despite the damage loss? Is the loss significant? Would it be better to do Fresh Air/Arcane with a minor in Water? The heal from Healing Ripple is powerful and I’m not sure if the tradeoff is worth it. ( I may grab Cleansing Fire to help with Condi removal if I lose Cleansing Wave )
My own experience with switching from Celestial to Zerk was that the differences are negligible. Yes the damage numbers were a bit bigger. Yes I lost some extra survivability. Gameplay-wise though, it’s going to feel essentially the same. More-so when consumables/sigils are used to boost Power.
Going deep into the Arcane line is going to significantly lower your DPS. That’s a fact. Whether or not it’s “worth it” is entirely up to you and your group. My opinion: It’s not worth it, and those points are better used elsewhere… five more points into water will get you a party-wide cleanse, which is great with Fresh Air.
I’ve been using my focus more and more lately. The more I play it the more I feel that is an extension of my utility bar, rather than the weapon in my offhand. Experimenting with this, I replaced some of my standby utility skills with more offensive utilities. You might consider Glyph of Storms over Mist Form or something of that nature. Or perhaps Signet of Fire for a touch more DPS?
While D/F is all well and good for some encounters, a consummate ele is going to find himself switching weapons and utility skills OFTEN as the situation dictates.
(edited by Wynne.3908)
I’d have to agree with the Signet of Fire if not running full Zerker’s. I run a mix of Valk armor and Zerk everything else. I can’t tell you how many times that extra ~2k HP has saved me. I also run a Fresh Air/Evasive Arcana S/D build since the last patch and I do enjoy it.
If you’re stuck on doing D/F Ele, I would recommend Divinity or Traveller’s Runes over Scholar ((or the 2 Trav/2 Monk/2 water combo if you want the 75% boon duration with 30 points in Arcana)), just because being in melee means you have less of a chance of benefiting from 90+% HP damage boost.
To answer your questions: Gear choice is up to you. Is it worth it? It can be. You’ll be playing a much more rounded character than a focused one. For traits, I say EA is very worth it in the midcore range of content. I can finish most CoF1 runs with any group in 10-15 mins depending on if we have a Mesmer for the rocks. I’ve done up to Fractal level 28 with this setup…and really have no need or desire to go into the 30+ range right now. It’s a personal preference thing…and those can change too.
Magichemist Zeke – Asura Elementalist [TC]
An Insane(ly Intelligent) Genius!
“Did you just tell me the rules? Never tell me the rules!”
An Insane(ly Intelligent) Genius!
“Did you just tell me the rules? Never tell me the rules!”