Remove team support from traits
I agree with this to some extent, but it does not address the inherent lack of survivability of the eles to begin with.
I would say, they need to go a step further:
- Remove a lot of the survivability from traits, increase the survivability from weapon skills and utilities. This would include removing the heal from evasive arcana water dodge and reducing the protection duration of elemental attunement, while halving cantrip cooldowns and improving water weapon-skill heals (which can be interrupted). This serves 2 purposes: you increase build variety b/c you no longer HAVE to go water/arcana/X just to play the game (although these lines would still be good) while making eles more susceptible to interrupts on their heals (counterplay!!). Soothing disruption will probably have to lose its “regen on cantrip” with this, which could be compensated by putting more cleanse on weapon skills (or just b/c cleansing fire has a shorter CD).
- I do agree, they should remove some of the inherent team-support while doing the above. In addition to reducing the water-dodge heal, I would make ele attunement single-person, and replace one of the master-level traits in arcana (the one that gives auras on reviving someone) with one that makes ele attunement aoe.
The thing a lot of non-eles don’t understand is that there is very thin line between which eles go from OP to useless. If they do not have enough healing to recover from thief burst and win sustained fights, they are dog-crap terrible. If they have too much more healing than that, they become monstrously strong (as they are now).
Decoupling self-survival and team-support slightly does help simplify that problem. It also creates a different niche for d/d ele and tempest (which currently just do the same things).
Good thoughts, Supreme.
(edited by BlackBeard.2873)
The thing a lot of non-eles don’t understand is that there is very thin line between which eles go from OP to useless. If they do not have enough healing to recover from thief burst and win sustained fights, they are dog-crap terrible.
I just wanted to point this out as a tl:dr version.
supporting ele is totally fine…
supporting ele + crazy burn damage from fire line is not…
nerf fire line and some burning application skills
buff dps eles so that if you wan’t dps you can actually spec for it in a reasonable way
/thread
Ex player of PeanutButterJellyTime, Heavenly Annoying and Visceral Gaming.
We finally have a decent offensive line and you want to nerf it?
yes because it’s imbalanced and not what ele needs.
if you want to buff offensive lines it has to be done in a way that it doesn’t benefit bunker/support builds or you will get exactly what we have now, a no brain build that can be played by scrubs which will still get above average results sadly.
burns need to be toned down, might stacks from cantrips and blinding ashes.
what needs to be buffed is air line and scepter. i wish the elite spec would have addressed the dps options but sadly it’s just another, yet worse, bunker.
d/d ele should be a supportish bruiser, not an all killing abomination that takes no skill to play.
Ex player of PeanutButterJellyTime, Heavenly Annoying and Visceral Gaming.
And then we’ll face our core problem of dependence on water/arcana. You need defensive traits in offensive lines because non-bunker eles will never work due to low innate survivability.
Basically, ele is kittened.
d/d ele should be a supportish bruiser, not an all killing abomination that takes no skill to play.
lol this always make me laugh, people talking kitten about class they know nothing about. Ele has the highest skill cap with engi.
The only thing right now is that the ele out-sustain other classes because it uses a bunker/celestial build, and it’s the only build that work at all for d/d. There is nothing more that eles would want than to be able to run something else.
You play with on berserker and marauder amulet high dps classes and then are surprised when a bunker celestial outlives you. Seriously just change your build and gear and you’ll have just as much sustain if not more.
Ever seen a bunker guard/d/d ele fight? Or a bunker war/ele fight? It never ends.
If by support you mean the passive healing they obtain from running 4 eles in a team then it can be achieved by reducing the radius on cleansing wave. This poses an issue sometimes since you have to be very close to heal up allies that really need it.
Bad Elementalist
If by support you mean the passive healing they obtain from running 4 eles in a team then it can be achieved by reducing the radius on cleansing wave. This poses an issue sometimes since you have to be very close to heal up allies that really need it.
It has 240 range, it’s already hard to use it properly when you are not in one big blob.
d/d ele should be a supportish bruiser, not an all killing abomination that takes no skill to play.
lol this always make me laugh, people talking kitten about class they know nothing about. Ele has the highest skill cap with engi.
The only thing right now is that the ele out-sustain other classes because it uses a bunker/celestial build, and it’s the only build that work at all for d/d. There is nothing more that eles would want than to be able to run something else.
You play with on berserker and marauder amulet high dps classes and then are surprised when a bunker celestial outlives you. Seriously just change your build and gear and you’ll have just as much sustain if not more.
Ever seen a bunker guard/d/d ele fight? Or a bunker war/ele fight? It never ends.
i don’t need to change anything and you don’t even know what you’re talking about…
d/d ele was fine prepatch without fire line, a very good support/bruiser build with mediocre damage, what it is now is a more tanky version with double the damage it had before.
d/d ele’s skill cap is bottom, the skill ceiling can be high if you know how to play ele but 99% or even more don’t and then it comes from properly supporting and peeling for team members, also something that 99% of eles have no idea how it works. but it doesn’t matter because they don’t need to know, why would they if they get build carried anyway.
and cleansing wave has a 240 radius, there is no reason to reduce that.
Ex player of PeanutButterJellyTime, Heavenly Annoying and Visceral Gaming.
i don’t need to change anything and you don’t even know what you’re talking about…
d/d ele was fine prepatch without fire line, a very good support/bruiser build with mediocre damage, what it is now is a more tanky version with double the damage it had before.
d/d ele’s skill cap is bottom, the skill ceiling can be high if you know how to play ele but 99% or even more don’t and then it comes from properly supporting and peeling for team members, also something that 99% of eles have no idea how it works. but it doesn’t matter because they don’t need to know, why would they if they get build carried anyway.
and cleansing wave has a 240 radius, there is no reason to reduce that.
It was fine without fire line because you couldn’t grab a third GM trait.
blinding ashes is not the major problem, it’s just one of them. the main problem is the burning damage that you can get out of it while half of it is from passives.
nobody would complain if it was strong but difficult to play, sadly it’s not.
Ex player of PeanutButterJellyTime, Heavenly Annoying and Visceral Gaming.
As much as I want d/d to be nerfed, I fear it’s gonna be almost impossible to nerf it without damaging other ele specs which are a lot harder to get good at and master and have more counters to d/d.
That being said, removing anything from traits, would hurt other specs probably more than d/d cause the real probably of d/d is both the sustain it has (looking at you cele amulet in combination with evasive arcana – again, if you touch that trait, you hurt every other spec as well which is completely unneeded), the burst damage (e.g burning speed and fier grab – numbers can be nerfed which would only hurt d/d, burst damage on cele has way too high imo) and the sustained damage/damage over time (burning – too many burn application skills on a rather short cd)
Nerf 2) and 3) and d/d will get used a lot less. Also, I agree that Elemental Attunement should only apply boons to yourself. Decreasing the duration of protection would imo be, again, counter productive as other specs need it to be atleast somewhat viable.
Another method would be to rework all the other weapons for ele to have more support and defensive capavilities and then remove support from the traits.
You can always gut the weapons themselves, instead of traits.
You can always gut the weapons themselves, instead of traits.
Except that just pigeon-holes the class EVEN MORE into relying on water/arcana just to play the game. As it is, the class has terrible baseline defensive mechanics, and 80% of total survival comes from low-CD effects on traits.
Reduce the power of the traits and INCREASE the power of the weapons will allow for both balance AND build diversity.
OR…run around like a chicken with your head cut off because you have no idea how to balance the class after 3 years (this is what they will do, btw).
Only thing I am agree with you why some group support traits are baseline.
Everybody before the patch agreed Elemental Attunement to share so many boons for the group at Master level was OP. Everybody asked the buffs to be for the caster and additional trait at GM level to make group wide which will concur with Evasive Arcana, so we will have to make a choice. Do we want to be group support or selfish. What do we get Elemental Attunement minor. WTF?
Same can be said for water line, we need every trait for self sustain but we do not need them for group support, make water traits for the caster only (heal on switch to water, cleansing water) and make another trait (like water CD reduction trait) to make those group wide, which will force us to a choice. Do we want lower CD on cantrips or heal/support the group?