Guild Wars 2

Renewing stamina is the Arcana VI major trait, it grants 5s of vigor on critical hits, with an internal cooldown of 5s. Mesmers get the exact same trait as the Duelist 5 point MINOR trait. We have to choose a sacrifice to our utility and playstyle in order to get what virtually every mesmer I’ve ever seen gets for free.

Meanwhile our arcana minor traits are ho hum at best. 2s of fury is okay but not all that useful when it basically just gives an autoattack an extra 20% chance to crit.

I’d trade Renewing Stamina to be the minor trait slot and have fury on attunement swap as a major trait, provided it was a longer duration.

My friend you need to learn how to use that 2s of fury
Even if it was a grandmaster trait I would strive to get it!

^but i agree about renewing stamina being a major sucks. Put it on air 5pt minor or something coz 5 air sucks

Zelyhn.8069:

My friend you need to learn how to use that 2s of fury
Even if it was a grandmaster trait I would strive to get it!

It’s enough for maybe 1 skill, but as staff, a lot of your skills take longer than 2s to have any effect for damage. Eruption, Ice Spike, and Meteor Shower won’t do damage in 2s, Lightning surge barely will. Lava font and autoattacks are basically the only skilsl staff has that can make use of 2s of fury on attunement swap.

By the way, your liking of the trait and statement that you’d trait for it even further down the line makes my point that renewing stamina and arcane fury should trade places, with arcane fury getting longer duration as a major trait.

I disagree.
Air 5 is quite weak I admit. But not all elementalists have access to perma swiftness!

Try swapping before those skills hit u’ll still be able to use the fury

Devildoc.6721:

Zelyhn.8069:

My friend you need to learn how to use that 2s of fury
Even if it was a grandmaster trait I would strive to get it!

It’s enough for maybe 1 skill, but as staff, a lot of your skills take longer than 2s to have any effect for damage. Eruption, Ice Spike, and Meteor Shower won’t do damage in 2s, Lightning surge barely will. Lava font and autoattacks are basically the only skilsl staff has that can make use of 2s of fury on attunement swap.

By the way, your liking of the trait and statement that you’d trait for it even further down the line makes my point that renewing stamina and arcane fury should trade places, with arcane fury getting longer duration as a major trait.

Not quite. Because Elemental Attunement is the trait that everybody is looking in arcane 10, for the right reasons.
Like I said, even in staff you need to learn how to use the 2s of fury. It is not as good as with scepter, or daggers, but still. You are aware that you can swap attunements mid-cast right?

Zelyhn.8069:

I disagree.
Air 5 is quite weak I admit. But not all elementalists have access to perma swiftness!

Well i could also say not all elementalists have perma vigor and lacking mobility/swiftness can be partly compensated with some weapon or utility. But we have only 2 skills that grant vigor untraited

Devildoc.6721:

Renewing stamina is the Arcana VI major trait, it grants 5s of vigor on critical hits, with an internal cooldown of 5s. Mesmers get the exact same trait as the Duelist 5 point MINOR trait. We have to choose a sacrifice to our utility and playstyle in order to get what virtually every mesmer I’ve ever seen gets for free.

Meanwhile our arcana minor traits are ho hum at best. 2s of fury is okay but not all that useful when it basically just gives an autoattack an extra 20% chance to crit.

I’d trade Renewing Stamina to be the minor trait slot and have fury on attunement swap as a major trait, provided it was a longer duration.

Guardians have Vigorous Precision which is MINOR trait that requires 5 points in Honor to get and does the exact same thing as Renewing Stamina.

I guess Renewing Stamina is still a major because it used to have a different functionality.

Why is it a major trait and mesmers have it as a minor? Well because a class has a trait similar to another class you have to place it somewhere else because every class is different.

Necro’s and engineers have traits similar for the burn on crit why is one a grandmaster and one not?

Bountiful power increased damage for each boon on you is grandmaster minor, engineer has a trait like that, guardians have a trait like that, warrior has the trait as a adept not all are grandmaster minors.

That is why there are similar traits in different places for different classes. Just off top of my head mesmers vigor trait is a minor eles similar is a major and ele has like 3 more vigor traits. Mesmer has another as a major shatters grant vigor. If you don’t take the vigor trait in dueling as a mesmer or the vigor on shatter you will be hurting for dodges unless you use sigil of energy the ele has like 5 traits for vigor.

I play PvP and PvE without vigor from traits (or even weapons: main-hand dagger). I compensate for it by using the focus in PvE, and elemental surge in PvP, for example.

That is true but dont forget that their class gives them something quite unique to survive dodging and healing is hardly unique

Devildoc.6721:

Renewing stamina is the Arcana VI major trait, it grants 5s of vigor on critical hits, with an internal cooldown of 5s. Mesmers get the exact same trait as the Duelist 5 point MINOR trait. We have to choose a sacrifice to our utility and playstyle in order to get what virtually every mesmer I’ve ever seen gets for free.

Meanwhile our arcana minor traits are ho hum at best. 2s of fury is okay but not all that useful when it basically just gives an autoattack an extra 20% chance to crit.

I’d trade Renewing Stamina to be the minor trait slot and have fury on attunement swap as a major trait, provided it was a longer duration.

Tbh, Our Renewing Stamina is WAY better than Vigor Trait on Mesmer. Our trait procs without any Setup at all, all we need to do is keep attacking and it procs,no worry. Mesmer Traits requires some conditions to fullfill to proc:

1/Clones has to be Shattered to get the effect
2/You have to be close enough where Clone shatter to get effect

So I think Renewing Stamina is justified to be a Major trait.

I think people haven´t realised just how powerful renewing stamina actualy is.
You don´t need all that much crit chance to have pretty reliable permanent vigor. Add to that fury on attunement swap, and we already have constant vigor.

It is indeed very easy to maintain constant vigor, especially with boon duration and fury. But I think a lot of people are overestimating vigor.

Zelyhn.8069:

I play PvP and PvE without vigor from traits (or even weapons: main-hand dagger). I compensate for it by using the focus in PvE, and elemental surge in PvP, for example.

In pve, do you have a guardian with you? And what content do you do? And how elemental surge helps you in pvp since whenever I use it, I mostly use it to immobilize enemy.

Stealth.9324:

Tbh, Our Renewing Stamina is WAY better than Vigor Trait on Mesmer. Our trait procs without any Setup at all, all we need to do is keep attacking and it procs,no worry. Mesmer Traits requires some conditions to fullfill to proc:

1/Clones has to be Shattered to get the effect
2/You have to be close enough where Clone shatter to get effect

So I think Renewing Stamina is justified to be a Major trait.

He’s talking about critical infusion not vigorous revelation. If you want to compare other vigor traits compare it to soothing disruption.

Stealth.9324:

Tbh, Our Renewing Stamina is WAY better than Vigor Trait on Mesmer. Our trait procs without any Setup at all, all we need to do is keep attacking and it procs,no worry. Mesmer Traits requires some conditions to fullfill to proc:

Critical Infusion (Mesmer) and Vigorous Precision (Guardian) are both 5 point Minor traits while Renewing Stamina is a 10 point Major trait. There is big difference here.

As for compaing Soothing Disruption and Vigorous Revelation, Soothing Disruption relies on high CD Cantrips (but also gives Regeneration) while Vigorous Revelation just requires a simple/quick/easy shatter (and also affects allies)

oZii.2864:

That is why there are similar traits in different places for different classes. Just off top of my head mesmers vigor trait is a minor eles similar is a major and ele has like 3 more vigor traits. Mesmer has another as a major shatters grant vigor. If you don’t take the vigor trait in dueling as a mesmer or the vigor on shatter you will be hurting for dodges unless you use sigil of energy the ele has like 5 traits for vigor.

Where are these 5 Vigor traits? Eles have 2 -good- traits that affect endurance, Soothing Disruption (requires high CD cantrips) and Renewing Stamina. There are two more traits, Zephyr’s Focus which requires channeling skills (and has great competition for far superior traits) and Vigorous Scepter, which is nearly useless in lots of builds as it is far better to get Renewing Stamina (both Adept traits), unless you don’t have an average crit chance. So it’s 2 vs 2 with the Mesmer as far as Vigor is concerned. And the Mesmer trait does have advantages over the Ele trait.

oZii.2864:

Necro’s and engineers have traits similar for the burn on crit why is one a grandmaster and one not?

Try comparing similar traits please, they have burn on crit traits but they are completely different. The Ele trait Burning Precision applies burning for 1 second with a 30% chance on critical, while both the Engineer (Incendiary Powder) and the Necro (Dhuumfire) traits apply Burning for 4 seconds with a 100% chance on critical. It’s obvious that the Necro/Engi traits are far superior to the Ele one and having them all as Adept would’ve been insane.

The “issue” with Renewing Stamina is that it has THE EXACT same effect as minor traits of other professions.

@ Haviz
I used to have a more than decent anchor guardian perma running with me. But he has stopped playing now. I had traited vigor then, but now I have learned how to play without it. Basically I was using dodge too much. It’s a gameplay choice.
I do all PvE content (High level fractals and dungeons).
In PvP elemental surge is massive! You can blind or chill, but also build more offensive pressure so that the enemy has to be more defensive. It fits really well when you have team mates who expect you to reliably root a given target for 4-5 seconds on demand.
Also since enemies don’t expect me to run this trait it gives a lovely element of surprise: countless times I have channelled churning earth, my targets not walking away, waiting for a timely dodge, while I just cast arcane wave. No need for lightning flash anymore

Zelyhn.8069:

@ Haviz
I used to have a more than decent anchor guardian perma running with me. But he has stopped playing now. I had traited vigor then, but now I have learned how to play without it. Basically I was using dodge too much. It’s a gameplay choice.
I do all PvE content (High level fractals and dungeons).
In PvP elemental surge is massive! You can blind or chill, but also build more offensive pressure so that the enemy has to be more defensive. It fits really well when you have team mates who expect you to reliably root a given target for 4-5 seconds on demand.
Also since enemies don’t expect me to run this trait it gives a lovely element of surprise: countless times I have channelled churning earth, my targets not walking away, waiting for a timely dodge, while I just cast arcane wave. No need for lightning flash anymore

Currently I’m levelling my ele to lvl 80 fractal (got 1 char there already) and some mobs have inappropriate skills like novices in cliffside strikes are able to deal 25k with lotus strike (that’s autoattack) and just 5k with backstab/heartseeker while on the other hand cultists in ascalon can hit you for 25k heartseeker with full hp and no might stacks from monks. Endurance is a resource every decent ele should master to manage and only use it for hardest hitting or punishing skills but on levels 70+ it’s really hard to get hit even once and live to tell about that. Btw, you seem like a decent player so if you would ever try something challenging pm me and we can make a fixed team (I don’t pug) for fractals 49+.

About elemental surge, I’ve been using it mostly for arcane power+hurl and arcane wave infinity range immobilize (shame immobilize doesn’t stack because arcane wave hits with condies twice) but after 1-2 surprise any decent enemy won’t fall for the same trick.

Stealth.9324:

Devildoc.6721:

Renewing stamina is the Arcana VI major trait, it grants 5s of vigor on critical hits, with an internal cooldown of 5s. Mesmers get the exact same trait as the Duelist 5 point MINOR trait. We have to choose a sacrifice to our utility and playstyle in order to get what virtually every mesmer I’ve ever seen gets for free.

Meanwhile our arcana minor traits are ho hum at best. 2s of fury is okay but not all that useful when it basically just gives an autoattack an extra 20% chance to crit.

I’d trade Renewing Stamina to be the minor trait slot and have fury on attunement swap as a major trait, provided it was a longer duration.

Tbh, Our Renewing Stamina is WAY better than Vigor Trait on Mesmer. Our trait procs without any Setup at all, all we need to do is keep attacking and it procs,no worry. Mesmer Traits requires some conditions to fullfill to proc:

1/Clones has to be Shattered to get the effect
2/You have to be close enough where Clone shatter to get effect

So I think Renewing Stamina is justified to be a Major trait.

No. That’s a different vigor trait.

on my mesmer I lay down a chaos storm, or use blurred frenzy, or use izerker or warden, and I get vigor pretty much without fail. It’s on crits.

maddoctor.2738:

Stealth.9324:

Tbh, Our Renewing Stamina is WAY better than Vigor Trait on Mesmer. Our trait procs without any Setup at all, all we need to do is keep attacking and it procs,no worry. Mesmer Traits requires some conditions to fullfill to proc:

Critical Infusion (Mesmer) and Vigorous Precision (Guardian) are both 5 point Minor traits while Renewing Stamina is a 10 point Major trait. There is big difference here.

As for compaing Soothing Disruption and Vigorous Revelation, Soothing Disruption relies on high CD Cantrips (but also gives Regeneration) while Vigorous Revelation just requires a simple/quick/easy shatter (and also affects allies)

oZii.2864:

That is why there are similar traits in different places for different classes. Just off top of my head mesmers vigor trait is a minor eles similar is a major and ele has like 3 more vigor traits. Mesmer has another as a major shatters grant vigor. If you don’t take the vigor trait in dueling as a mesmer or the vigor on shatter you will be hurting for dodges unless you use sigil of energy the ele has like 5 traits for vigor.

Where are these 5 Vigor traits? Eles have 2 -good- traits that affect endurance, Soothing Disruption (requires high CD cantrips) and Renewing Stamina. There are two more traits, Zephyr’s Focus which requires channeling skills (and has great competition for far superior traits) and Vigorous Scepter, which is nearly useless in lots of builds as it is far better to get Renewing Stamina (both Adept traits), unless you don’t have an average crit chance. So it’s 2 vs 2 with the Mesmer as far as Vigor is concerned. And the Mesmer trait does have advantages over the Ele trait.

My mistake I did say off top of my head so that’s 4 traits for endurance regen a Mesmer has only 2 your personal opinion if the other 2 traits are good or not is a totally different topic.

I could use the same argument because vigor on shatter is useless in any build that isn’t shatter doesn’t have clone on dodge trait etc. You don’t have crit the Mesmer trait does nothing for you. I honestly have never seen a build that took 5 pts in dueling just to get that trait. Mesmers don’t get easy reliable access to fury but their clones do. The Mesmer trait is good but synergy wise it isn’t even close between it and renewing stamina.

I think the reason why it’s a major trait is because of the potential for constantly maintained vigor. I remember the pre-nerf days of this trait when my staff ele would, on average, maintain 30-45 seconds worth of vigor against a champion, 20-30 seconds while fighting a veteran, and 10-20 seconds against critters.

Add in boon duration and suddenly you get a tremendous amount of vigor duration that makes managing stamina almost an afterthought. Even post nerf, with the 5 second cooldown, it is still very useful for near permanent vigor throughout a fight for me.

Also, evasive arcana could also be a reason why this trait is in the major ranking.

Devildoc.6721:

No. That’s a different vigor trait.

on my mesmer I lay down a chaos storm, or use blurred frenzy, or use izerker or warden, and I get vigor pretty much without fail. It’s on crits.

You don’t get vigor from your illusions crits. You can from criting a shatter if it crits though since it counts as your attack.

Also arcane grants boon duration, which helps with the perma stacking of vigor (the boon last for more than the ICD), as opposed to the relevant mesmer tree that grants cirt and crit damage.

Zelyhn.8069:

Also arcane grants boon duration, which helps with the perma stacking of vigor (the boon last for more than the ICD), as opposed to the relevant mesmer tree that grants cirt and crit damage.

You’re doing something wrong if you can’t get 1 crit every 5s on a mesmer.

Permavigor is very strong. It’s totally worth the 20-point trait.

Besides, it’s not like we could give up Elemental Attunement anyway.

You can swap while casting. Also You have more boon duration, so it’s more like 3s.

Breaking news: classes are not meant to be identical.
That’s why we get 2s of fury (which translate to pretty much perma-fury) as a minor trait instead of vigor-on-crit. And I would take that fury every time over vigor, it allows me to play with valkyrie and still have 40% crit chance.

Renewing Stamina and all other equivalent traits for other professions, are extremely strong. Perma vigor means twice the dodges. This could very well be a 25th trait, and people would still want to pick it. Traits like these have been requested at the pvp forums to be nerfed someday.

DiogoSilva.7089:

Renewing Stamina and all other equivalent traits for other professions, are extremely strong. Perma vigor means twice the dodges. This could very well be a 25th trait, and people would still want to pick it. Traits like these have been requested at the pvp forums to be nerfed someday.

It is powerful, but I have the same trait on my mesmer and I didn’t have to sacrifice a major trait for it.

Devildoc.6721:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Renewing Stamina and all other equivalent traits for other professions, are extremely strong. Perma vigor means twice the dodges. This could very well be a 25th trait, and people would still want to pick it. Traits like these have been requested at the pvp forums to be nerfed someday.

It is powerful, but I have the same trait on my mesmer and I didn’t have to sacrifice a major trait for it.

Different professions have different needs. Also, it’s very probably an overpowered trait on the Mesmer.

On the surface, I’d say it’s because there’s actually quite a few traits for the elementalist that either give them increased endurance regen or vigor once a condition is met: putting that on a minor (especially in arcana) risks making those redundant (endurance regen) or just overwhelming (other vigor traits).

That’s my guess anyways, didn’t see anyone else in the thread mentioning it.

I’ll trade Lingering Elements for Renewing Stamina any day of the week.

TwoBit.5903:

I’ll trade Lingering Elements for Renewing Stamina any day of the week.

I´d trade lingering elements for anything.

Am I reading this correct? An ele is ‘crying’ about the access to boons? LOLOLOL

TwoBit.5903:

I’ll trade Lingering Elements for Renewing Stamina any day of the week.

The lingering elements of earth (if you have atleast 5 points in earth) is pretty nice tho. Free 80 thoughness.

Avatar Yirachi.7162:

TwoBit.5903:

I’ll trade Lingering Elements for Renewing Stamina any day of the week.

The lingering elements of earth (if you have atleast 5 points in earth) is pretty nice tho. Free 80 thoughness.

Doesn´t work.

Lingering Elements has been broken since the beginning of time.

To quote the bug thread:

Lingering Elements — Function Issue/Tooltip Issue
Only Flame Barrier, Zephyr’s Speed, and Soothing Mist 5 point minor traits are affected by this trait. Does not work with Stone Flesh minor trait or other traits.

So yes, I too would change LE for almost anything else.

Avatar Yirachi.7162:

Am I reading this correct? An ele is ‘crying’ about the access to boons? LOLOLOL

OP is confused because he like so many think because contextually similar traits should be exactly the same in the same spots in all trait lines for all professions lul.

I wonder where he thinks +50% critical chance in deathshroud should go since its grandmaster and very similar to unsuspecting foe for warriors.

Or dhuumfire should move to a adept trait since engineers have it at adept also and it reads the exact same.

oZii.2864:

Or dhuumfire should move to a adept trait since engineers have it at adept also and it reads the exact same.

Maybe ele should have burning precision changed as well because it’s very similiar to earlier version of incendiary powder?

Or natural vigor being moved to grand master major because of adrenal implant?