Guild Wars 2

I feel that the elementalist should have a lot of what was taken away come back, like the old ride the lightning CD/no penalty.

They deserve to have some mobility and nerfs unturned as the community grows better.

Elementalists need some stuff, but giving them the old “I either kill you or run away” gameplay is not one of them.

I don’t really think its a huge issue, as even with the 40 second CD, we can still escape and reset fights, its just not as powerful as it once was. Anet says that they plan to release new skills and traits sometime before 2013, so who knows what we could really end up seeing for elementalist.

As far as the nerf to bountiful power, I don’t really mind it because its coercing us to spec more in air (or earth 10-stone splinters) to get straits that really improve our sustained and burst DPS.

What about the current RtL in combat, the old RtL out of combat? I mostly miss it for QoL, not trolling people in W3.

It needs the 15 second CD back, and the double CD penalty only in spvp.

Whats wrong with tactically retreating or moving into a fight? Mobility is a big part of the game.

They nerfed alot of our survivability so even if they turn it how it was we wouldn’t be the never die and run away eles that we were in the past
So therefore it shouldn’t be a problem

Daecollo.9578:

Whats wrong with tactically retreating or moving into a fight? Mobility is a big part of the game.

Nothings wrong with having mobility, We just no longer have the ability to essentially spam RtL, because a skill with such escape potential on such a low cooldown really was just overpowered. I mean do thief/Mesmer shadowsteps/teleports and invisabilities have cooldowns that low? No they don’t usually, its 25 to 30 seconds for an ability that dosen’t move them as far away as RtL can. I’d say we’re balanced and should accept this and be glad that the CD is 20 seconds when you use it as a DPS-gap closer move.

nearlight.3064:

Daecollo.9578:

Whats wrong with tactically retreating or moving into a fight? Mobility is a big part of the game.

Nothings wrong with having mobility, We just no longer have the ability to essentially spam RtL, because a skill with such escape potential on such a low cooldown really was just overpowered. I mean do thief/Mesmer shadowsteps/teleports and invisabilities have cooldowns that low? No they don’t usually, its 25 to 30 seconds for an ability that dosen’t move them as far away as RtL can. I’d say we’re balanced and should accept this and be glad that the CD is 20 seconds when you use it as a DPS-gap closer move.

Not really overpowered, imo.

It was overpowered, but the game changed a lot since then.

RtL was too strong, but Anet (as usual) is ridiculous to nerf from 20 to 40 seconds, rather than trying 25, 30, etc.

I completely agree with the OP. While RTL ruined the fun of other professions in PVP and WVW (eles always running away and never dying), in PVE the fun of eles themselves is ruined because they are now so much slower than before. Arenanet should never forget that having fun is most important in a game, and in order to make PVE less dull due to slow running speed, extra mobility is never a bad idea.

Ele` weren`t even fastest pre-any of the several nerfs though.
Warrior could out run fairly easily & can so to stupid extents now.
Rangers with 1100range leap every 12 seconds, makes it faster then ele.
Mesmers traited blink plus scepter, thief with their completely ott escapes & the previous three all now having stealth…
Hell, even necro is faster now lol
But the problem wasn`t ele managing to escape/catch up, it was the kittens not immobilising the ele that were at fault, but anet decided to continue doing the carebear routine they`re getting famous for.

But tell me this, why shouldn`t the lowest hp/armour only class, the same class that is the only class that is stuck at melee only, why shouldn`t it have more mobility?
As it stands now, everyone/thing can hit, stun, immob` & hit you some more whilst you`re just trying to even get in melee range, by which point you`ve either lost a huge amount of hp, ot have dodged enough to escape that & then have no dodges for in melee combat range….

Whilst this is mostly aimed at my experience of wvws, the same stands true in the battlegrounds.

facepalm You say ele ruined the fun of other classes but you could have easily stunned them or immobilized while they RTL. just goes to prove anet is faster at nerfing things than our playerbase is to adapting and getting better.

I played the ele for the mobility. Plenty of classes can reset fights; like the thief, engineer, mesmer, gaurdian, warrior, ranger, and necro. Using that as an excuse to kill off the elementalist class was utter nonsense. Using it as an excuse not to revive the class is equal nonsense.

If a thief’s strongest attack is blocked, evaded, or just misses, nothing happens and he gets to spam the button until it lands. If RTL is blocked, evaded, or misses, it goes on a massively long cooldown leaving us vulnerable and very likely to die. GG Anet.

The Boz.2038:

Elementalists need some stuff, but giving them the old “I either kill you or run away” gameplay is not one of them.

The only problem with Rtl was that it was 1550 range. Either keep Cd to an unconditional 40s 1500 range or put the cooldown to 25, or 20s with 1200 range. Both, however, was way too much as far as nerfing goes. Now, that many players have figured out how to move with their other chars (such as rangers GS and wars GS), IF the 1500 range was put in with 40s cd or the 1200 was kept with a lower CD, eles would not be able to pull off the “i kill you or run away”.

How about a change like this:

When Out of Combat – 1200 distance travel range, 15s/20s Cooldown and no Cool Down Penalty when you don’t hit anything.

When In Combat – 1200 distance travel range, 20s Cooldown, 30s Penalty when you don’t hit anything.

TBH I’m still doing fine with the nerfed RtL in PvP/WvW. My main problem lies with PvE and WvW map roaming.

People were complaining how we can just simply run away (same as GS Warriors/Thieves/Mesmers -.- ) when we’re losing a fight. I just want it back on a low cool down when you’re out of combat for roaming mobility.

Fishbait.6723:

But tell me this, why shouldn`t the lowest hp/armour only class, the same class that is the only class that is stuck at melee only, why shouldn`t it have more mobility?

this

Kyon.9735:

How about a change like this:

When Out of Combat – 1200 distance travel range, 15s/20s Cooldown and no Cool Down Penalty when you don’t hit anything.

When In Combat – 1200 distance travel range, 20s Cooldown, 30s Penalty when you don’t hit anything.

TBH I’m still doing fine with the nerfed RtL in PvP/WvW. My main problem lies with PvE and WvW map roaming.

People were complaining how we can just simply run away (same as GS Warriors/Thieves/Mesmers -.- ) when we’re losing a fight. I just want it back on a low cool down when you’re out of combat for roaming mobility.

Nope.
Again, why should one class be penalised for using a mobility spell when no other class is?

If it`s good for the goose, it`s good for the gander.

Either no classes have a double in their cd for mobility spells or they all do.

RTL should be 1550 range, with 12 second cooldown. Anything else is just proof that Anet hates elementalists.

Eles are in a good place right now, at least in WvW. They do not really need any other buffs. PvP is also ok. PvE likes needs some help.

style.6173:

Eles are in a good place right now, at least in WvW. They do not really need any other buffs. PvP is also ok. PvE likes needs some help.

First off, PvE doesn’t need help for a couple reasons. FGS in a corner kills most things, plus PvE is boring static play and if you can’t figure out how to kill mobs a buff wont help you either.

Second, WvW is not ok. The elementalist is the complete bottom of the food chain and might as well be renamed “rally bait” or “free bags” when shown to enemies.

Third, I don’t play PvP since i’m not a casual gamer. But I understand the mechanics and ele’s are slightly better off there than in WvW because the map is just simply smaller. But they still suck there.

Thief mobility is quite hilarious when you put it up on the block vs old rtl. You don’t need to stealth to get away as a thief. You just spam infiltrator’s arrow for a 900 yard blink every 6 initiative. The lowest cd we can jolt forward like that is rtl once, and blink once. The thief will easily break combat to attain full run speed, while we’ll be stuck in it for a very long time while cycling various sprints and long cds. We already know how broken stealth is, and the thief should get to move that fast, too? And we shouldn’t? Why again? Because we could reset a fight? That is a horrible excuse created by people who didn’t know how to flat-out kill a squishie.

P.S. We can’t catch warriors either. Or rangers. That’s 2 medium armor, and 1 heavy, that outrun light armor.

On the flip side, we can have close to full sprint uptime if we spec that way. 10 air’s zepher’s boon gives us a sprint from water, air, and fire combo auras. 10 arcana’s elemental attunement gives us sprint on attuning to air. (out of combat swap to) Glyph of Elemental Harmony for another 10s of swiftness while in air. You can put on a staff to combo swiftness from earth to air, then air 4 for more swiftness, swap back to daggers, and finish with a burning speed &lightning flash until air or water is back up again. I just tested the full combo. Forgot to mention updraft for sprint. I hit air aura refresh in the combo once and that put me at a full minute of sprint.

I’d rather have weapon swap option than old rtl. Something I feel we need more than anything else.

Had a chat in guild or /t chat one day, where someone listed all the ways to keep ele fast(ish) by blowing all of their cds. although still not as fast as other classes can.
My argument was simple, you blow those cds & someone hits you, you are kittened.

Well most of the time I don’t even need to leave air attunement or swap weapons to maintain sprint. Switching healing skills could be the thing that keeps me alive in a big fight. But that’s kinda off-topic lol. I don’t really feel (edit) underpowered in wvw. In spvp I prefer s/d. And pve (guild missions/fractals) I don’t have problems with anything.

My wvw/general spec: d/d
Things to note: If you’re not going to be running condi clear in a utility slot or from the heal, then having V in water is necessary. That gives you 2 condi clears because of the dodge in water. I find it far more useful than regen and vigor when I already have decent healing and vigor from my off-hand sigil. Sometimes I will use ether renewal if I know the other team is necro heavy. In a gvg I have to drop the 10 air to help with group buffs and crap like that that makes d/d less enjoyable really. The -33% damage every aura is far superior to stability and protection every 90s or whatever that (earth-traited) earth’s embrace gives you. So basically I run around with protection, fury, and sprint 90% of the time, and regen about 75% of the time instead of just regen 75%, and fury/sprint 50%, with protection only on earth swap and utility, making it 25% of the time on average. None of those percentages are accurate, but that best describes the spec the way I play it.

I would be happy with a 900 range on 15s cooldown, or 1200 range on 25s cooldown.

Barring that, RtL should be unblockable so that things like aegis/blocks/etc don’t screw us over when using RtL as intended. Also, if its staying at the stupidly high CD, give us some more damage (although this won’t happen b/c of stupid, cheesy S/D burst ele in sPVP).

Fishbait.6723:

Kyon.9735:

How about a change like this:

When Out of Combat – 1200 distance travel range, 15s/20s Cooldown and no Cool Down Penalty when you don’t hit anything.

When In Combat – 1200 distance travel range, 20s Cooldown, 30s Penalty when you don’t hit anything.

TBH I’m still doing fine with the nerfed RtL in PvP/WvW. My main problem lies with PvE and WvW map roaming.

People were complaining how we can just simply run away (same as GS Warriors/Thieves/Mesmers -.- ) when we’re losing a fight. I just want it back on a low cool down when you’re out of combat for roaming mobility.

Nope.
Again, why should one class be penalised for using a mobility spell when no other class is?

If it`s good for the goose, it`s good for the gander.

Either no classes have a double in their cd for mobility spells or they all do.

I only suggested it like this in case Anet won’t revert it to its old form. But of course it would certainly be better for us if they revert it.

nearlight.3064:

As far as the nerf to bountiful power, I don’t really mind

I suppose you never played Mesmer. Compounding Power is an ADEPT (yeah, no master, let alone grand master) trait which mimics Bountiful Power’s mechanic; it gives ’tho 3% damage increase for each active illusion. Yeah can you believe, 3%. And ppl QQ about Bountiful Power /facepalm
Try to duel a good shatter Mesmer and you will be enlightened about what damage output means and control over the fight (weapon swap, teleport, stealth

I do admit the nerf to RTL was kind of uncalled for.. you guys keep saying it was needed.. but not really as it was our only escape mechanic.. unlike other classes who have MANY over our 1. but atm ive kind of adapted to it because even if my RTL hits some 1 the cooldown will be halved got to remember that effect aswell.

Most ele players have strayed away from phoenixes D/D build and went scepter but im sticking it out thro thick and thin all the way till its gone and the build still works perfectly for me so far. i only do spvp now since i kinda came back after a long break and have no guild but i will eventually go back to doing WvW soon i hope.

But honestly i gotta say i still love being an ele i just hope somewhere along the lines they actually.. give us a good buff for our builds rather than nerf something that didnt need to be nerfed in the first place. thats like putting a 20s cooldown on attunement switching. but oh well people still love me in spvp because of the fact that i can still play my class regardless of the nerf xD They be like’ OH theres AN ELE GET HERRR OMGAHHH !!!!!!!!’ yea i like it :o lol so if anyone wants to spvp sometime or tpvp pm me or you might see me there :p

Where have I seen this topic before…

Lordryux.9785:

thats like putting a 20s cooldown on attunement switching.

don`t give them ideas, you know they`re stupid enough to go ahead with this!!!

Fishbait.6723:

Lordryux.9785:

thats like putting a 20s cooldown on attunement switching.

don`t give them ideas, you know they`re stupid enough to go ahead with this!!!

If they do that.. i quit gw2.. lmao.. plain and simple.. that what make ele unplayable by all means but i doubt they will do that ever.

I actually thought RTL was overpowered and granted at the time it probably was, and then every other class got buffed. Now it just isn’t. It needs to be brought back to what it was.

(I play a warrior too!)

Ok, I have 1k + hours on my ele. All I do is roam in wvw. Yes I was gutted when RTL got nerfed into oblivion, but I coped with it and dealt with it.

But the last few patches have made this skill worthless imo. Other classes mobility been bought up and ours is just bad. On a miss/dodge/blind/block we are stuck left trying to chase ppl down as a melee class. Why ?

Please dont tell me f3 and e3 are enough gap closers to keep players within our range because they just arent. RTL needs looking at again please anet, at the moment it isnt able to be used offensively (the only time it hits is when you join a skimish and a player isnt looking, 9/10 players see the big ball of electrical light hurtling towards them and dodge it the other times) and defensively the cd is excessive. And no i’m not using FGS on a 180 cd to either keep the gap closed or to create the gap, leaving our inherent weapon mechanics etc unaccessible, whilst every other class fires and forgets with their respective elites.

Now i just get /laugh in wvw because escaping is really hard work (yes its doable if you have most of your cd’s) and /laugh at by ranged and the other faster melee classes out there as i’m left hitting mid air in the voids they just left.

Please reassess RTL.

Reset it back to what it was, the meta is fine and the dev who nerfed it took a sledge hammer to it.

Also revert CD to 15 seconds.

I`d say good luck on this, it is obviously being ignored.
Placing bets if they ever do anything, which I doubt they`ll have the balls to, that they`ll only make it a 30sec cd.

I love how in the video where they introduced the atrocious change, they claimed “dodging or blocking rtl will still trigger the short cooldown”, and yet here we are half a year later with a sorry joke of a skill that almost always goes to 40s cooldown and still glitches making you immobile at the end until you re-press w half the time.

Have the devs actually commented on RTL before, reasoning the change with logic? Sorry if this sounds offensive. But from what I think and what I’ve heard (and also clearly based upon what I want) there are more reasons to change RTL into something more useful again.

If they insist on RTL being used primarily for offense, fine, I can deal with that. But make it acutally worth using offensively. It should be unblockable and damage anything it hits along it’s flight path and go through targets like burning speed. Make it like Ky Kiske’s Ride the Lightning in Guilty Gear. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSIh0vj3sT8&list=PLE43F72C1A75C1A52 skip to 1:03 in the vid. THAT’s how it should be.

Or at 1:09 in the 2nd link. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMNXcp0Or10

RtL should be 1200 range on 20s (kind of like rush), and perhaps let it be affected by movement impairing condis if you want. That is all. D/D ele in melee can’t even stick to the following professions b/c they simply outrun us, and they can change range to boot if they spec that way:
-Thief: a million ways to get free
-Ranger w/ GS: one swoop and they are free
-Engi: one rocket boots and they are free
-Warrior: one rush and they are free
-Mesmer: can easily stealth + blink and they are 90% free

If they want RtL to be used as a gap closer, than make it 900 range on 15s cooldown. Now you have a viable skill to burst in air on D/D, can reliably stay on your target, and can only use it to get part of the way away. All of the other nerfs brought down our sustain and damage (of the bunker) more than enough, taking away our mobility was not necessary.

The main reason why rtl should be 20 seconds is another.

Its the key spell to make the profession fun…
Without it its just plain boring.

Its not even OP

Nerf fgs, unnerf rtl <.<

Maybe all the other gap closers that can be used as range makers should get the same long cool down if it doesnt hit anything just like RTL, they also need to adjust all the cool downs of them.

40second basic, 20 if you hit something is insane. It needs to be 20seconds and 10 if you hit something in my opinion

I don’t get why RTL was nerfed but Swoop and Rush have been untouched. They should either revert RTL, or nerf those 2 abilities since they’re the same basic thing and used for the same purposes. And the pitiful amount of damage it deals is no reason for it to be on such a long cooldown. I can deal WAY more damage with Swoop than I can with RTL even using a bunker spec on ranger. It needs to be reverted to how it was before, or the radius of the burst and the damage need to go up exponentially to justify 40 freaking seconds. 40 seconds is longer than most utility cooldowns of other classes. I wont even get on the subject of our horrendously long cooldowns on our utilities.

I’m still waiting for the CD increase on heartseeker spamming runaway thieves, whirlwind/rush warriors, and others. Rush even has range equivalent to the nerfed RTL, on a 20s CD, with no hit/miss penalty.
Why is the ele singled out for “too much” mobility, even when it has the lowest hp and armor? Shouldn’t the ele be at a mobility advantage? What is the tradeoff?

The trade off is the collective IQ at anet.
All of these things were pointed out during the stream pre nerf, it has been mentioned continuously since the nerf & not once have they had the balls to reply.

boroguy.5690:

I’m still waiting for the CD increase on heartseeker spamming runaway thieves, whirlwind/rush warriors, and others. Rush even has range equivalent to the nerfed RTL, on a 20s CD, with no hit/miss penalty.
Why is the ele singled out for “too much” mobility, even when it has the lowest hp and armor? Shouldn’t the ele be at a mobility advantage? What is the tradeoff?

keep waiting, it wont happen.
THIS is why Anet should NEVER be allowed to do “Balancing” because they are simply PATHETIC at it. They have no clue what they are doing, bowing down to the casuals crying all the time and look what it has done to the Ele, destroyed it. They have targeted Mesmer now that very soon will be a worthless class as well.

The ONLY class that when they go Melee (Dagger/Dagger) are FORCED to ONLY stay melee thanks to no weapon swap and they nerf the ONE skill that was helpful and very useful both in defense and offense.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

boroguy.5690:

I’m still waiting for the CD increase on heartseeker spamming runaway thieves, whirlwind/rush warriors, and others. Rush even has range equivalent to the nerfed RTL, on a 20s CD, with no hit/miss penalty.
Why is the ele singled out for “too much” mobility, even when it has the lowest hp and armor? Shouldn’t the ele be at a mobility advantage? What is the tradeoff?

keep waiting, it wont happen.
THIS is why Anet should NEVER be allowed to do “Balancing” because they are simply PATHETIC at it. They have no clue what they are doing, bowing down to the casuals crying all the time and look what it has done to the Ele, destroyed it. They have targeted Mesmer now that very soon will be a worthless class as well.

The ONLY class that when they go Melee (Dagger/Dagger) are FORCED to ONLY stay melee thanks to no weapon swap and they nerf the ONE skill that was helpful and very useful both in defense and offense.

Its original CD was excessively low and could be traited to be a 12 second recharge, but 40 seconds (that doesn’t always properly hit and thus reduce recharge) is absurd. And no, fixing the hitbox bugs that trigger recharge reduction will not solve this problem. It needs to be a static 24 seconds, give or take before traits.

Ehhh honestly the old RTL could be locked down by decent players. With the new condition meta I can see a lot of eles dying anyway even if they do escape with RTL. Cause.. you know.. conditions and such. Either is fine, I still escape just fine if i need to with the current RTL, just can’t use it for damage anymore..

Leuca.5732:

Its original CD was excessively low and could be traited to be a 12 second recharge, but 40 seconds (that doesn’t always properly hit and thus reduce recharge) is absurd. And no, fixing the hitbox bugs that trigger recharge reduction will not solve this problem. It needs to be a static 24 seconds, give or take before traits.

why is 12 seconds to excessive?
Ranger Greatsword is 12 seconds (without trait) goes 1100range, is a combo finisher
Warrior Greatsword is 20 seconds (without trait) goes 1200range

The ONE class that has NO option of going between range and melee with D/D and make the skill that is pretty much the SAME as the ones above and give it a cool down that is at least twice as long as just the 2 above is a joke

if it must have the “on hit” thing then it needs to be UNBLOCKABLE or remove it and reduce the overall cool down. 20 seconds before trait seems fair.

Eslakon.8149:

Ehhh honestly the old RTL could be locked down by decent players. With the new condition meta I can see a lot of eles dying anyway even if they do escape with RTL. Cause.. you know.. conditions and such. Either is fine, I still escape just fine if i need to with the current RTL, just can’t use it for damage anymore..

There is no elementalist that can ever escape from my thief.