Rise ele base hp?

Rise ele base hp?

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Posted by: Vyko.6953

Vyko.6953

I cant get why so low hp. Yes, we have water attunement, but thats just very little heal, if you compare it to necromancer: necros have highest health cap. They dont have water heal as ele, however they STEAL LIFE (comparable to water heal, maybe stronger than water heal) + they have DEATH SHROUD. Seems legit!

Thiefs has same hp as elementalists, but they have more condi removals and plenty of stealth, so they are still well viable.

And now, after cleansing wave trait nerf (ANOTHER NERF, FFS!), we have a stupid little amount of condi removal and still the lowest hp. Its almost impossible to kill necro in spvp. Yes I can use diamond skin but then I will suck against other classes… no solution.

Can anyone explain me that lowest hp logic?

#ELEtism

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Posted by: cheshirefox.7026

cheshirefox.7026

not logic, gimmick
welcome to nerfmentalism

i can outswim a centaur!
when i’m done on an issue
i start talking in nerglish

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Posted by: pulupulu.9730

pulupulu.9730

It is quite logical. When you play elementalist, you can make other people’s life more enjoyable.

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Posted by: reikken.4961

reikken.4961

no
do not increase ele hp
I’d rather have my power allocated to offense and support than passive defense

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Posted by: LightningBlaze.4913

LightningBlaze.4913

The logic is because we have various ways to clean conditions and heal ourselves back up. Hp by itself is a lame stat if you don’t have ways to keep avoiding damage or recover.

Heidia- The elementalist is the #1 most OP profession in this game since beta!

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Posted by: dietzero.3514

dietzero.3514

The logic is because we have various ways to clean conditions and heal ourselves back up. Hp by itself is a lame stat if you don’t have ways to keep avoiding damage or recover.

HP is fantastic without those.

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Posted by: reikken.4961

reikken.4961

hp is actually the BEST stat to have when you don’t have ways to recover or avoid damage

but ele does, so it’s not needed

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Posted by: LightningBlaze.4913

LightningBlaze.4913

hp is actually the BEST stat to have when you don’t have ways to recover or avoid damage

but ele does, so it’s not needed

For that scenario a very strong offense would be your best defense. Power stat is a lot more valuable by itself than hp when it comes to pvp setting. For Pve sure the hp can come helpful but in a pvp environment the most benefit it would allow (only if you invest a great amount and without the help of the other defensive stats/skills/utilities/traits) is to receive just one – two extra auto attacks…. assuming your opponent is not a punching bag with low damage. Dodging along is enough to avoid a lot of damage on smaller scale encounters but a lot of players fail to do even that right.

Heidia- The elementalist is the #1 most OP profession in this game since beta!

(edited by LightningBlaze.4913)

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Posted by: ThiBash.5634

ThiBash.5634

Whether healing power is amazing or not, depends mostly on how effective it is compared to vitality and toughness. As a simple example, for eles, healing power has a relatively easy time to ‘add more health than vitality’, especially if you get the extra heals from traits. Basically, most eles have so many heals that the healing gained from 1 point of healing power exceeds the 10 health they gain from 1 point of vitality.

If you can read this then it is proof that ArenaNet’s moderators just, kind and fair.

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Posted by: LightningBlaze.4913

LightningBlaze.4913

I’m pretty sure the op meant the Heath bar(vitality) and not healing power….

Heidia- The elementalist is the #1 most OP profession in this game since beta!

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Posted by: Vyko.6953

Vyko.6953

The logic is because we have various ways to clean conditions and heal ourselves back up. Hp by itself is a lame stat if you don’t have ways to keep avoiding damage or recover.

You dont have that many condition removers if you go dps build (however I had decent before cleansing wave nerf). Yes we can heal ourselves back up but necro has life steal and death shroud instead. He should have lowest base amount of hp right like eles or eles should have high amount.
And I keep avoiding. Perma vigor, cantrips, Im trying to avoid the most of dmg, yet its useless against condis, which I can barely remove with DPS build and with so tiny hp its just impossible to stay alive.

#ELEtism

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Posted by: Gorni.1764

Gorni.1764

It would help a bit, but I don’t think that solely raising base-HP will fix ele …

Rachat – Elementalist (Abbadon’s Mouth)

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Posted by: Fade.1743

Fade.1743

I agree, but not Ele alone. The difference between top tier HP and bottom tier HP is over 7k…which means that Necromancers and Warriors get about 700 “vitality” extra. I understand the reason why each class is in their tier and I agree with them. However, I disagree with how far the tiers are apart.

The lowest tier should have its HP raised to the current medium tier. And the medium tier somewhere around the 16-17k border. It would cause a lot of chaos for a few weeks as builds rise and fall, but it would be easier to balance in the long run. When you think about it…the base defensive difference between a Warrior and Elementalist is around 1000 “vitality” + “toughness” ((For base HP and armor)). That’s a pretty severe handicap given to the class that has lost a lot of condition cleanses and stunbreakers.

Magichemist Zeke – Asura Elementalist [TC]
An Insane(ly Intelligent) Genius!
“Did you just tell me the rules? Never tell me the rules!”

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Posted by: Pyriall.5027

Pyriall.5027

Here’s a lesson that took well over 8 years for Blizzard to learn. You CANNOT balance damage output with such a large discrepancy in base hp’s. The idea alone doesn’t make sense. You want everyone to be able to play a “burst” build and be competitive with damage, yet you handicap others by not allowing to live through initial burst. Don’t worry, we know the developers at A-Net are smart enough to figure this out…ROFL, just kidding.

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Posted by: Gorni.1764

Gorni.1764

The lowest tier should have its HP raised to the current medium tier. And the medium tier somewhere around the 16-17k border. It would cause a lot of chaos for a few weeks as builds rise and fall, but it would be easier to balance in the long run.

I wrote something like this in another thread a few months ago. My idea was to reduce these huge differences and fine-tune all stats based on current performance of classes and their major role in the game. So for example Elementalists should keep their lowest base-HP and -toughness (because it makes sense) but they could get some healing-power and/or power as compensation. So they have lower defense but better support/offensive capabilities which makes sense in terms of game-design and is also fair in terms of balancing.

It’s no miracle that a class that has 1000P worth of attributes more than another class is superior in comparison. Especially when spell-scalings are approximately equal and CDs of comparable spells are significantly lower.

In fact, easiest way to balance an MMO is to give all classes approximately the same base-stats (differences only about 1-5%) and balance the classes through CDs, Scaling-Coefficients, Resource-Management and type of damage done (magic/physical or like in GW condition/direct damage). This is how you can fine-tune balancing.
When you look at GW2 we have classes that have twice the HP of other classes, no resoucres like mana and no resonable CDs on certain spells. Every class has access to direct damage and condition damage-builds so this can’t be used to balance specific classes either.

It looks like Anet was kinda lazy when it comes to balancing. They just give every class everything and randomly distributing attributes – there’s no DPS-meter so nobody really cares about PvE; and PvP seems to have always been just a small side-aspect of the game.

Rachat – Elementalist (Abbadon’s Mouth)

(edited by Gorni.1764)

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Posted by: oZii.2864

oZii.2864

This is what would happen my post from another thread

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/elementalist/?1.0|8.5n.h2.8.5n.0.d13.0.d14|0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0|1g.71m.1g.71m.1n.71m.1g.71m.1n.71m.1g.71m|2t.d1d.2v.d14.3v.d17.2v.d1d.2t.0.2v.d13|p00.f0.k00.0.a5|6f.1|1n.1u.1v.1s.28|e

Power 2311 (no might stacks) 2611(easy 10 stacks of might)
35% chance to crit (no fury) 55% crit chance with fury (via zephyr’s boon)
83 critical damage
Heavy class modified Armor = 3066 (3186 while attuned to earth)
Heavy class modified Health = 19182

I am almost certain that if Ele’s HP was raised the condition management option we have now would be nerfed hard.

The ele can do alot of damage raising the hp would allow ele’s to make more mistakes therefore be more effective because we can afford to face tank damage to apply our own damage we wouldn’t need to be as careful. That is how warrior plays.

HP increase I think would see healing nerfed, condition removal nerfed, vigor nerfed.

[Good Fights]Sinndicate{Ele}Sinactic{Engineer}
Sinnastor{Warrior}Sinnacle{Mesmer}Sintacs
{Thief}

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Posted by: LelouchViBritannia.3607

LelouchViBritannia.3607

Mesmer and Eles should swap base health. Mesmer have countless active defenses (clones, defensive phantasms, stealth, evades, distortion) while eles pretty much have none. Yet mesmers have 15k health while eles are stuck at 10k.

I command you to be AWESOME.

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Posted by: Elfis.9102

Elfis.9102

Please do NOT buff Ele HP, armor, or autoattacks. Doing that necessitates weaker cooldown powers, and I would prefer those be buffed instead. Please NERF ele HP, armor, or autoattacks as needed to balance for buffed cooldown powers and reduced cooldowns.

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Posted by: MasterMc.7543

MasterMc.7543

Please do NOT buff Ele HP, armor, or autoattacks. Doing that necessitates weaker cooldown powers, and I would prefer those be buffed instead. Please NERF ele HP, armor, or autoattacks as needed to balance for buffed cooldown powers and reduced cooldowns.

Did you really just say you wanted them to NERF our HP. Yes lets go ahead and knock off another 2k, putting it to 8k base. No thank. The whole point here is to increase ele survivability not reduce it more.

Though I do agree our cool downs need to be dropped.

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Posted by: Snorcha.7586

Snorcha.7586

More HP and cool downs reduced, do that and we are in a better state. We have the damage, just not the ability to stay alive and deal it.

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Posted by: oZii.2864

oZii.2864

This is a discussion on low hp in the Guardian forums from a while back.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Why-low-base-HP-might-be-a-good-thing/first

The same can be applied to Ele which probably has it better at low HP then guard since we can be more mobile and apply protection with good dps. You want max protection uptime on a Guard you need to run 2 utilities with shouts or hammer. Really more vit just allows you to make more mistakes and trying to run around for a large part of the fight trying to recover that missing health pool. You won’t really being doing damage if you get spiked you will be trying to heal all the time.

We should be past the phase of getting 1 shot by thieves and that really is the only reason you need higher hp. Mesmers with higher HP or Necros with higher HP just can make more mistakes or have a way to cover up the mis-timed dodge.

Once you blow through deathshroud on a necro or you come across one that doesn’t have life force the fight is completely different and when I run my necro all that extra HP just gives me a slight buffer to try to build up life force if I am at 0% . Most of the terrormancer running around sPvP probably only have 18k anyway which a ele can reach but why would you want to.

More hp means bye bye elemental attunement. They would never raise ele’s base HP and leave all the bells and whistles we are use to exactly the same. They wont just say here you go take 2k extra.

[Good Fights]Sinndicate{Ele}Sinactic{Engineer}
Sinnastor{Warrior}Sinnacle{Mesmer}Sintacs
{Thief}

(edited by oZii.2864)

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Posted by: Conncept.7638

Conncept.7638

no
do not increase ele hp
I’d rather have my power allocated to offense and support than passive defense

The least likely thing for the devs to ever allow, even less likely than getting an HP buff.

More hp means bye bye elemental attunement. They would never raise ele’s base HP and leave all the bells and whistles we are use to exactly the same. They wont just say here you go take 2k extra.

I don’t see how that’s true at all, it could be argued that the attunement system gives us a little bit more damage and utility, but they come at the cost of higher than average cast and recharge times. But one thing nobody can argue is that it gives us absolutely no more defense than the weapon skills of any other class. Heck we had to depend on one set of utility skills for all our defense for the entire first six months of the game.

Buffing our HP bar may not be the way to go, but we do need inherent defense somewhere like every other class has.

(edited by Conncept.7638)