Guild Wars 2

Bar tender! Two necrocrosi for me and my new Ele friends!

rotten.9753:

Iris Ng.9845:

What do you need Reflect for? And no, Block will be periodically destroyed by the boss’ auto Magic Aura. Higher armor doesn’t really matter if you intend to soak up the Seeker’s damage: You’ll die! You still need to avoid colliding against the Seeker to the minimum: like, strafe left-right, pull them together then dodge over. On the other hand, you can dodge over the blue teleport aoe at the last minute to avoid the boss moving too much. So perma Vigor is much more preferred than high armor.

Have you seen the sustain that a cele ele can pump out compared to a cleric guard in a PvP match? Ele can get a high up time of Protection and Regen. With Tempest, you are looking at 40% damage reduction with aura/protection. You have yourself Might and Fury. You have your own Rebound, which you can share with your DPS allies during Bullet Storm, too. You also have plenty of blast finisher to coordinate a water blast with your engi.

Since you don’t need any of the Reflect/Block/Stability (yet), it’s pretty much a fair game to have a cele ele tank/kite the boss.

I think you might have missed the last patch notes or you plan on using cantrips as well.

Either way, earthen proxy isn’t something I would have brought into a discussion.

I’m not sure what do you imply by “missing patch notes” and using “cantrips”. Earthen Proxy is exactly what I used when assuming the tank role.

@Particlar: Well done. It’s quite pleasantly assuring to see you using the same staff setup as mine. The lack of fury troubled me into choosing between Lightning Flash and Signet of Fire, also between Glyph Pet and Rebound when running the AoE duty. I think staff ele only shines when aggro is properly maintained, like how your group did during the first phase of the boss. Very impressive!

rotten.9753:

NayNay.7680:

I use dust storm for bleeds/blinds. Is that wrong?

Well, yea. In the segment of the raid that was available you couldn’t blind anyone.

Are they immune to blind? Or just Unshakable. I just assumed they were unshakable and used it as a Fire-and-forget after switching to earth for the protection buffs, anyways.

AFAIK Blind is a soft-CC, so it goes directly to the defiance bar.

NayNay.7680:

rotten.9753:

NayNay.7680:

Though I only attempted the raid twice (and with random groups, no less) I didn’t have any problems sustaining myself while keeping an eye on my teammates. Any time i’d see that i’ve taken agro, I would swap to earth and drop Dust storm-Feel the burn (proc protection on aura) Sand squall (proc again) then swap to water to gauge who needs heals and Toss tidal surge, Water globe and Trident their direction.

What was the point of casting Dust Storm?

My dps was entirely burn-oriented (Toughness/Heal power/Cnd dmg) with Scepter/Warhorn so I could keep a safe distance.

I will add that I wasn’t able to beat the Vale Guardian with either group, but I feel like my role was about right. Burning spikes fast and is a quick rotation through fire atunement to unload and end with Heat sinc to top off anyone who needs a stack of 25 might.

If you have a controlled environment like raids (unlike open world triple trouble) and enrage timers, you want to always make sure everyone is playing at the highest level. Condition damage elementalist doesn’t allow it so if your team mates don’t mind it that’s fine but I frankly cannot see it used by any “competitive” guild in the near future..

I use dust storm for bleeds/blinds. Is that wrong?

So by your standards I should sacrifice my own survivability and that of my teammates just to burn the bosses HP bar a little bit faster? I’ll take 8-9k burn ticks 2-3k bleeds out of face-punch range any day.

I really don’t think this is a sittuation where anyone who isn’t running the most streamlined specialized Spec should be discluded from Game content (uncompetitive pve content at that) it all comes down to how well you know your routine for the build you play and being properly informed about boss behaviors and the like.

Edit:
This coming from a player who avoids competitive guild politics. I don’t mean for it to come off as an attack on the well-rounded guild groups just trying to be the most efficient, but just saying people shouldn’t be turned away because they’re running a build that is deemed “less efficient”. Let their actions prove their worth, first.

You are again missing the point. Yes you have to do that if that is what the boss demands, because why would you or anyone go to a boss getting wiped 500 times and never beat the enrage timer (the time when the boss wipe you). If a boss demands certain stats or skills and you refuse to take that with you will either stop your group from making it, or the rest of the group have to carry you and do what you don’t. I can’t see how you would justifie that?

It might be that you feel you don’t want to do this anyway and that is ok, but then you are probably not a person that should raid, because raids are based on teamwork, not what you as a person want to do but what the group need for you to do in order to manage to kill the boss. Teameffort.

In a dungeon it is diffent. There is no timelimit, a group with nomad stats will make the dungeon in the end event though it will take a bit of time. In raids this do not work. If not adjusting your group will simply never make it and the boss will enrage and wipe all.

Anyway this thread was not about raid or not, but what place ele have in raids, and at this point we are not in a great spot for this mission.

I think we have conflicting views of Teamwork. That’s exactly what I’m trying to enforce, here. I chose condition damage and healing because utilizing that build I’m able to see what else is going on and who needs support while i’m waiting for my next burst to be ready, which I might add works out well when a boss has a period in invulnerability that requires a condition to be met before DPS can take the helm again. At least it seemed to work out a lot better than what I saw of other players getting smashed up or not paying attention to the orbs and whatnot.

Raids work best when everyone is maximising their potential. This usually means dedicated DPS, tank, and healer. Hybrids SOMETIMES work, but it is rare. The 10 man limit might mean a hybrid dps/healer is viable, but that will most likely be a druid.

Axialbloom.8109:

Raids work best when everyone is maximising their potential. This usually means dedicated DPS, tank, and healer. Hybrids SOMETIMES work, but it is rare. The 10 man limit might mean a hybrid dps/healer is viable, but that will most likely be a druid.

I gotta say, last time i checked in the beta test weekend i noticed a good amount of dps, mostly in the form of sustain due to elemental overloads. I was running a S/Wh combo with fresh air and while i used cele trinkets and accesoires, i used berserker amu and armor, my damage was good enough to solo elites in SW. The fight went smooth and i had no trouble surviving and i never felt my dps was low. There was a good amount of sustain instead of periods of burst and periods of no or almost no damage. I think tempest will fill the roll of dedicated dps, with support through aura’s, fields and blast finishers. Dont forget with scepter/warhorn we can deal damage while moving, specially in overloads. Although the tempest needs fine tuning, i do think we fill a spot in the raid.

While i was sceptical when i heard about the tempest and saw what the mechanics where, the feel while playing last weekend was really good. But thats just imho.
Cheers.

Iris Ng.9845:

I’m not sure what do you imply by “missing patch notes” and using “cantrips”. Earthen Proxy is exactly what I used when assuming the tank role.

This part:

So perma Vigor is much more preferred than high armor.

Latent Stamina

Iris Ng.9845:

Latent Stamina

Is a horribly bad trait.

Bogus.1598:

Axialbloom.8109:

Raids work best when everyone is maximising their potential. This usually means dedicated DPS, tank, and healer. Hybrids SOMETIMES work, but it is rare. The 10 man limit might mean a hybrid dps/healer is viable, but that will most likely be a druid.

I gotta say, last time i checked in the beta test weekend i noticed a good amount of dps, mostly in the form of sustain due to elemental overloads. I was running a S/Wh combo with fresh air and while i used cele trinkets and accesoires, i used berserker amu and armor, my damage was good enough to solo elites in SW. The fight went smooth and i had no trouble surviving and i never felt my dps was low. There was a good amount of sustain instead of periods of burst and periods of no or almost no damage. I think tempest will fill the roll of dedicated dps, with support through aura’s, fields and blast finishers. Dont forget with scepter/warhorn we can deal damage while moving, specially in overloads. Although the tempest needs fine tuning, i do think we fill a spot in the raid.

While i was sceptical when i heard about the tempest and saw what the mechanics where, the feel while playing last weekend was really good. But thats just imho.
Cheers.

The problem with this, is that everything was nerfed in the latest beta weekend. Every build could easily kill things.

Bogus.1598:

I gotta say, last time i checked in the beta test weekend i noticed a good amount of dps, mostly in the form of sustain due to elemental overloads.

Tempest has less dps than regular ele, which has less damage and less survivability and less utility than condi engi.

Coldtart.4785:

Bogus.1598:

I gotta say, last time i checked in the beta test weekend i noticed a good amount of dps, mostly in the form of sustain due to elemental overloads.

Tempest has less dps than regular ele, which has less damage and less survivability and less utility than condi engi.

Actually, I would argue that tempest has higher damage than regular ele when it comes to mobile raid fights. A regular ele loses a lot of damage in this case. The problem is that overloads still cost a lot and that your survivability needs to be paper if you want to do good damage.

In order to compete, the tempest needs more inherent survivability baked into the spec (maybe with new minor traits?), and probably more damage on overloads as well.

Even if tempest has more dps in a mobile fight than regular ele it doesn’t matter because engi is still better than both while being better at other things at the same time.

Coldtart.4785:

Even if tempest has more dps in a mobile fight than regular ele it doesn’t matter because engi is still better than both while being better at other things at the same time.

Exactly, which is why I’m saying that tempest needs buffs.

I think tempest support builds are quite alright for the raid, it’s just that druid outshines them due to the huge base heals. Apparently, the people who finish bring cleric druids, even with the bad scaling for healing power. One proposed fix which I support and which could be the saving grace for support ele: bring the scaling on healing power more in line with the other stats, so other classes can approach the druid’s huge base heals (and bring down druid’s base heals, but allow to scale them to the same values).

Iris Ng.9845:

Latent Stamina

You brought into the discussion both traits that even Karl considers “not strong enough”. How desperate are you?

rotten.9753:

Iris Ng.9845:

Latent Stamina

You brought into the discussion both traits that even Karl considers “not strong enough”. How desperate are you?

Good job on deflecting the point of this discussion and cherry picking on the effectiveness of the trait.

Let’s go back from the start, shall we?

Iris Ng.9845:

Out of curiosity, do you have any experience in controlling the aggro of the Vale Guardian without the actual need to change classes/ comp? Anything that could trigger the aggro? From my own experience, the first group I was with had a cleric Guard and a cele Revenant, the boss decided to pick me, a zerker staff ele. So I had to swap to Rabid Tempest in order to kite him and do DPS.

Neko.9021:

It should be noted that since someone has to run a tank build in order to kite the boss around with highest armor, a Cele Ele would not actually be a bad choice at all. One group did it with a Cele Guardian. I’m sure Cele Ele would be OK.

SkiTz.4590:

Don’t think Cele ele has access to the blocks/reflects and utilties that guardian has…not to mention the naturally higher armor total….

Don’t see a logical reason a light armor/lowest HP should be tanking over other heavies in your squad lol….

Iris Ng.9845:

What do you need Reflect for? And no, Block will be periodically destroyed by the boss’ auto Magic Aura. Higher armor doesn’t really matter if you intend to soak up the Seeker’s damage: You’ll die! You still need to avoid colliding against the Seeker to the minimum: like, strafe left-right, pull them together then dodge over. On the other hand, you can dodge over the blue teleport aoe at the last minute to avoid the boss moving too much. So perma Vigor is much more preferred than high armor.

Have you seen the sustain that a cele ele can pump out compared to a cleric guard in a PvP match? Ele can get a high up time of Protection and Regen. With Tempest, you are looking at 40% damage reduction with aura/protection. You have yourself Might and Fury. You have your own Rebound, which you can share with your DPS allies during Bullet Storm, too. You also have plenty of blast finisher to coordinate a water blast with your engi.

Since you don’t need any of the Reflect/Block/Stability (yet), it’s pretty much a fair game to have a cele ele tank/kite the boss.

Snowball.3497:

Now I do agree with the general opinion that the elementalist role gets outshined by others.
The two strongest positions I’ve found is either play as the ‘tank’ to keep the vale guardians aggro or as a fresh air tempest for moderate damage on the move.

rotten.9753:

I think you might have missed the last patch notes or you plan on using cantrips as well.

Either way, earthen proxy isn’t something I would have brought into a discussion.

rotten.9753:

Iris Ng.9845:

I’m not sure what do you imply by “missing patch notes” and using “cantrips”. Earthen Proxy is exactly what I used when assuming the tank role.

This part:

So perma Vigor is much more preferred than high armor.

Iris Ng.9845:

Latent Stamina

It’s fine and dandy not to use any of those sustain traits when you are able to assume a DPS role. But when you are hand picked (by the boss) to tank, your option is to adapt or reroll (ragequit? lol). Since the OP asked how to tank when you are not a bunker guardian, I provided him plentiful options an ele can have in his/her kitten nal. You can go deeply to Water/Earth-or-Arcane/Tempest and be virtually immortal or you can shed some of those defense for hybrid damage. Tempest has perma vigor if you want to push it that far and that’s where it can even outshine a bunker guard. If you and Karl think the trait is weak and need buffs, sure, I’ll be more than happy to go with its stronger version. Just to point out how the utility those traits provide is best fit for the raid situation. For the record, our raid group went as far as 33% with two and a half minute left on the timer. We wiped because a stupid mistake with the lightning AoE, but the point is, I know how effective Tempest as a tank-kiter can be from my first hand experience. I don’t have any screenshots or VoD to prove it, but you can contact any of my raid team members (APeX members, Trackful, AK) to verify our positive experience.

Iris Ng.9845:

Good job on deflecting the point of this discussion and cherry picking on the effectiveness of the trait.

Let’s go back from the start, shall we?

I quoted you once and you brought back an entire discussion… If you cannot understand that, I’ll try to make it easier.

You said something about perma vigour and I pointed that you cannot achieve that without cantrips because renewing stamina was nerfed by 50%. You also were gloating how earthen proxy is such a decent trait for tanking and I pointed out it’s a pretty bad trait.

Iris Ng.9845:

It’s fine and dandy not to use any of those sustain traits when you are able to assume a DPS role. But when you are hand picked (by the boss) to tank, your option is to adapt or reroll (ragequit? lol). Since the OP asked how to tank when you are not a bunker guardian, I provided him plentiful options an ele can have in his/her kitten nal. You can go deeply to Water/Earth-or-Arcane/Tempest and be virtually immortal or you can shed some of those defense for hybrid damage.

It would hold any merit if the boss actually didn’t stick to the highest toughness person.

Tempest has perma vigor if you want to push it that far and that’s where it can even outshine a bunker guard.

If you play water/earth/tempest than I have absolutely no clue how (5+3)/10 could give more than 1 without using cantrips (which was my original point).

If you and Karl think the trait is weak and need buffs, sure, I’ll be more than happy to go with its stronger version. Just to point out how the utility those traits provide is best fit for the raid situation.

More like, “if me, the vast majority of posters here and even Karl”.

For the record, our raid group went as far as 33% with two and a half minute left on the timer. We wiped because a stupid mistake with the lightning AoE, but the point is, I know how effective Tempest as a tank-kiter can be from my first hand experience. I don’t have any screenshots or VoD to prove it, but you can contact any of my raid team members (APeX members, Trackful, AK) to verify our positive experience.

You can be certain it was a positive experience, I’m certain it’s more beneficial to pick another profession.

rotten.9753:

Iris Ng.9845:

Good job on deflecting the point of this discussion and cherry picking on the effectiveness of the trait.

Let’s go back from the start, shall we?

I quoted you once and you brought back an entire discussion… If you cannot understand that, I’ll try to make it easier.

You said something about perma vigour and I pointed that you cannot achieve that without cantrips because renewing stamina was nerfed by 50%. You also were gloating how earthen proxy is such a decent trait for tanking and I pointed out it’s a pretty bad trait.

Earthen Proxy gives 40% damage reduction under protection. As a tempest, you have very good boon duration, on top of protection on Aura. If your group has one or two Herald, it’s almost settled on the permanent effect of this trait. A full zerker staff ele got hit by the auto Magic Aura of the Vale Guardian for 1.96k .

A full cele ele gets hit for 1.48k, a full rabid ele gets hit for 1.32k (damage reduction by toughness alone). With Protection, a full cele ele gets hit for 1.04k, a full rabid ele gets hit for ~920. With Earthen Proxy+ Protection, a full cele ele gets hit for ~888, a full rabid ele gets hit for ~792. These numbers can be reasonably sustained with Passive Regen and Heal.

Now, please back up your point instead of just your usual one-liner.

rotten.9753:

You said something about perma vigour and I pointed that you cannot achieve that without cantrips because renewing stamina was nerfed by 50%.

Fried Golden Dumpling
Bountiful Sharpening Stone

PvE is such a beautiful place.

Iris Ng.9845:

rotten.9753:

You said something about perma vigour and I pointed that you cannot achieve that without cantrips because renewing stamina was nerfed by 50%.

Fried Golden Dumpling
Bountiful Sharpening Stone

PvE is such a beautiful place.

Nooo stop telling people, this kitten is getting more expensive

Neko.9021:

Iris Ng.9845:

rotten.9753:

You said something about perma vigour and I pointed that you cannot achieve that without cantrips because renewing stamina was nerfed by 50%.

Fried Golden Dumpling
Bountiful Sharpening Stone

PvE is such a beautiful place.

Nooo stop telling people, this kitten is getting more expensive

I am hoping they make these crafable at one point. Rev’s passive +50% out going boons throws all boon duration out of wack to the point of becoming nearly pointless if you have a rev in your pt.

Iris Ng.9845:

Earthen Proxy gives 40% damage reduction under protection. As a tempest, you have very good boon duration, on top of protection on Aura. If your group has one or two Herald, it’s almost settled on the permanent effect of this trait. A full zerker staff ele got hit by the auto Magic Aura of the Vale Guardian for 1.96k .

A full cele ele gets hit for 1.48k, a full rabid ele gets hit for 1.32k (damage reduction by toughness alone). With Protection, a full cele ele gets hit for 1.04k, a full rabid ele gets hit for ~920. With Earthen Proxy+ Protection, a full cele ele gets hit for ~888, a full rabid ele gets hit for ~792. These numbers can be reasonably sustained with Passive Regen and Heal.

Now, please back up your point instead of just your usual one-liner.

Should those numbers mean anything substantial? I know how percentages work, it’s simply not worth to pick traits like latent stamina or earthen proxy in their current iteration because there are better alternatives in other trait lines but if you believe otherwise, please, go on, play your full rabid tempest.

Iris Ng.9845:

Fried Golden Dumpling
Bountiful Sharpening Stone

PvE is such a beautiful place.

Ever heard of something like opportunity cost?

I cannot take someone seriously who thinks latent stamina is fine…

Here is something people tend to never consider:

Tempest Elementalist can camp in Earth form, in Dire gear, can maintain good bleed stacks and can maintain permanent uptime on protection, which allows for some insane tanking capabilities.

This allows them to have a decent condition damage contribution through bleed stacking while being able to keep the boss STATIONARY, which most other tank builds cannot do. In fact, if the healing power set becomes an option instead of Dire, they could probably be completely self-sustained and free up healers to focus on other allies.

By keeping the boss stationary by face-tanking its hits and dodge-rolling through the teleporting aoes, this allows the normally non-viable Staff Ele and Greatsword Warriors and backstab Thieves to pull off their respective builds much more effectively, increasing the damage of the raid by a very significant amount. Sinister Engineers greatly benefit from stationary foes as well.

Additionally, if bosses ever have a type of critical hit mechanic at some point, Stoneheart will be very, very valuable.

Lastly, Elementalists can have the highest possible toughness + damage mitgation in the game, although Rangers also are quite fantastic in this area. If we ever have a boss that deals more consistent, high, sustained damage on the tank, the Tempest Earth camping tank will become even more valuable.

I think Apostate’s (Condi >Healing / Tough) would be a strong option if less defenses are needed to self-sustain, otherwise Settler’s (Toughness > Healing / condi) would offer better sustainability, while a support variant for a Tempest healer supporting the party would run Apothecary’s (Healing > Toughness / Condi)

You would tank with Sceptre/Focus? What would you heal with? I also believe Earth Overload is bugged, with its protection uptime.

Being able to keep a boss stationary through sustain isn’t going to help against the vale guardian because the fight mechanics require you to move him around.

BTW you could just as easily ‘tank’ with a guard and have the advantage of also being a healer at the same time.

Coldtart.4785:

Being able to keep a boss stationary through sustain isn’t going to help against the vale guardian because the fight mechanics require you to move him around.

BTW you could just as easily ‘tank’ with a guard and have the advantage of also being a healer at the same time.

No it doesnt. It requires you to dodge its close range ground target teleport and reposition boss to be within range over the lightnjng aoes’s ranged damage dealers. This means 80% of the time you could keep him completely still, and i did it in our attempts. Jt also makes it super easy for a ventari or druid to target the heals for you.

Healing could be either through ether renewal or sig of restoration with sigil trait. Since bosses dont crit, swapping into water and taking improved Soothing Mist with high healing power is amazing sustainable healing too but you lose iut on condi damage upkeep.

Little note: Chronomancer can double Ice Bow 4 with Continuum Split. Still useful.

Eponet.4829:

sicsempertyrannis.3510:

Eponet.4829:

Celestial elementalist is a jack of all trades. But it’s important to realise that you need to play to all your strengths in order for it to work.

With two castings of cleansing wave through Water dagger 5 and evasive arcana, they contribute somewhat to group healing and condition management.

It’s not difficult to maintain 10-20 stacks of might and permanent fury using your fire fields, 3 blast finisher weapon skills, and the blast finisher on earth attunement evasive arcana.

Dagger elementalists have high mobility, allowing them to disengage fights, as well as quickly reach objectives if things like having to reach distant switches mid fight are ever incorporated as mechanics.

Due to the design of their kit and stat selection, elementalists deal significant amounts of both direct and condition damage when stacked with might.

Celestial D/D in PvE does really, really poor damage.

Weird, when I played it, it did noticably more than my berserker mesmer.

Mesmer is the lowest damage class in PvE. As in, lower than necromancer. So I’m not sure what point you’re trying to prove when bringing up the lowest standard possible for DPS.

arkealia.2713:

Little note: Chronomancer can double Ice Bow 4 with Continuum Split. Still useful.

I… forgot about that. lol

arkealia.2713:

Little note: Chronomancer can double Ice Bow 4 with Continuum Split. Still useful.

I don’t understand, why would they waste cont. split on something so ordinary? They are better off double-casting a lot of other skills (time warp, phantasms, wells to share all that OP alacrity, etc) rather than wasting the whole thing on one stationary dps skill that isn’t even all that damaging anymore…

Well… I’ve been hearing some guild talks from Sickest Guild (World First Kill for Vale Guardian), and EG. It looks like our squishy nature, and unstable/inconsistent design won’t help with dynamic raids, only same stationary ones. Not sure if Tempest will have a truly WORTH place in raids. I’m gearing my Engineer.. I’m kinda too sad about Tempest and Ele.

Valento.9852:

Well… I’ve been hearing some guild talks from Sickest Guild (World First Kill for Vale Guardian), and EG. It looks like our squishy nature, and unstable/inconsistent design won’t help with dynamic raids, only same stationary ones. Not sure if Tempest will have a truly WORTH place in raids. I’m gearing my Engineer.. I’m kinda too sad about Tempest and Ele.

Their opinion doesn’t really mean that much. Their world first, while nice, was very limited in scope due to the small window of opportunity. This basically means they get huge points in my book for their determination, organization, and “quick” adjustments and optimization, but they are not going to be the be all end all of what “should be used” in raids considering we’ve experienced only 1/3 of one wing of three wings thus far.

Valento.9852:

Well… I’ve been hearing some guild talks from Sickest Guild (World First Kill for Vale Guardian), and EG. It looks like our squishy nature, and unstable/inconsistent design won’t help with dynamic raids, only same stationary ones. Not sure if Tempest will have a truly WORTH place in raids. I’m gearing my Engineer.. I’m kinda too sad about Tempest and Ele.

Caring about their opinions will do you no good, there haven’t been enough people trying out the boss to guarantee that we have efficient strategies nailed down and know what the best comps to take are. It doesn’t exactly mean anything when “World’s first kill” means “World’s first kill due to no competition, as nobody else was able toattempt it yet.”

Anyways, Tempest is low damage low utility and overall pretty pointless for raids. It’s not like it can’t be put to use but it’s not better than other choices, so there’s no point in taking it.

Purple Miku.7032:

Valento.9852:

Well… I’ve been hearing some guild talks from Sickest Guild (World First Kill for Vale Guardian), and EG. It looks like our squishy nature, and unstable/inconsistent design won’t help with dynamic raids, only same stationary ones. Not sure if Tempest will have a truly WORTH place in raids. I’m gearing my Engineer.. I’m kinda too sad about Tempest and Ele.

Caring about their opinions will do you no good, there haven’t been enough people trying out the boss to guarantee that we have efficient strategies nailed down and know what the best comps to take are. It doesn’t exactly mean anything when “World’s first kill” means “World’s first kill due to no competition, as nobody else was able toattempt it yet.”

Anyways, Tempest is low damage low utility and overall pretty pointless for raids. It’s not like it can’t be put to use but it’s not better than other choices, so there’s no point in taking it.

About your second statement: that was taken into consideration. It’s a constrast between their notable fast adjustments/organization and the current state of tempest (I didn’t forget about this forum, and the BWEs). It looks like we DID have improvements and they’re more than welcome, but it’s more tied to applicability. It’s more of a “why take a tempest if it doesn’t compare to any other elite spec, or perform much underwhelming to another elite spec?”.

I have a strong feeling we won’t be limited to one class/spec to rule all the raids, no. We will have to shift builds and/or classes depending on the group needs and overall raids’ goals, but tempest lacks so much thus far. I’m not kitten about ele nerfs, this was a balance need so that’s why I don’t kind of relate ele nerfs to overall tempest lack of usefulness, indeed even base ele is more helpful than tempest as far as trait goes (staff is still superb when it comes to support and mass control).

Still…

were having issue with the magic aura on vale guardian. its ticking for 6k ticks every 6 seconds on some people and is to much for the healers to keep up with. everyone has at least exotic gear and ascended rings/ trinkets / amulets. is there requirement that no one knows about?

Valento when I posted that comment it was when the only boss available was the vale guardian, which ele is 100% without a doubt terrible on.

For gorseval and the last boss? It’s fine on, because those bosses aren’t moving 100% of the time. On gorseval in particular, staff ele with tempest + fire overloads is great because he moves infrequently and has a big hitbox.

Right now, Ele’s role in raids is to be ranged DPS during Gorseval and Sabetha. ^^;

While maybe not the absolute best build for VG, d/f fresh air tempest is still quite high dps and provides a fair amount of group utility with the shout heal and rebound, so you can certainly take ele into the VG fight (I downed VG with this build last week). Staff zerker eles are obviously top tier for gor and sab right now as well. I’ve seen some groups having success with tank/healer tempest auramancer on VG as well so that could be something to look into, but there are definitely more optimal classes for those roles.

Pergatory.6210:

were having issue with the magic aura on vale guardian. its ticking for 6k ticks every 6 seconds on some people and is to much for the healers to keep up with. everyone has at least exotic gear and ascended rings/ trinkets / amulets. is there requirement that no one knows about?

I’m not quite sure what you’re talking about here. VG doesn’t have any sort of pulsing aoe damage so it seems like you may be misunderstanding a few of the mechanics? I’ll try to explain what some of the possibilities could be and see if that clears things up.

During phases 1, 3, and 5, the red “seeker” orbs will move towards members of your group. If you stand in their red aoes, you will take a ton of damage. These can either be kited, or cced (knockbacks to get them out of the group; cripples, imobs, chills to keep them out). These can down people really quickly so they need to be avoided.

During phases 2 and 4 (the split phases), members of your group will get a colored debuff over their heads. Should they touch the aura of a boss of a different color (those large aoe circles you see on the ground), they will take pulsing aoe damage. There are a couple of different strats to combat this. You can of course equally distribute your group to each boss and have each group kill their color to avoid the aoe damage completely, but what my group and many others have been seeing success with is sending your condi team to red, your tank to green, and the rest of the group to blue. Kill blue as quickly as possible and then either run to green, or have the tank pull green to the blue area and kill green as quickly as possible (yes, while taking aoe damage – your healer will have a few seconds of pressure on them but with personal heals and healer heals, this really shouldn’t be a problem with decent dps).

Other than that, people should mostly be avoiding damage throughout the fight to reduce pressure on the healer. As an elementalist with a 11.6k health pool, I find I rarely go down on this fight and am able to mostly keep myself topped off with just my shout heal when I need it, and random smaller heals from my druid when I happen to get them. I’d try to have your group individually work on avoiding damage as people constantly going down can lead to a lot of wipes/low dps. Think hard about who you have running circles and tanking the boss and make sure their class is good at what they’re doing. (Personally, my group loves to have 3 condi engis and our druid running circles and they all have a ton of knockbacks and area healing and the condi damage from the engis keeps ticking on the boss while they run circles. Many groups have had success with this type of comp.) Good luck and let me know if you need any other help/explanations/advice!

People say that Air Overload has good damage in raid is hurting their raid group. If you’re not doing at least 20k dps, then you should be replaced with a condi engi, reaper, or glass staff camp fire. Good raid dps is above 35k.