Guild Wars 2

Also I forgot to add that only goes for GS. If a warriors inst using a GS for example lets say they are using axe + shield and somthing else. Than Bulls charge is the only gap closer they have.

TheGuy.3568:

MIrra.3604:

SupahSpankeh.8452:

I think I might be able to help you understand what the problem is.

It’s not how the elementalist’s mobility compares to anyone else; it’s about the fact that elementalists can disengage safely and reliably at a time of their choosing, and are too difficult to kill.

Now either everyone elses experience of Elementalists stems from the fact that Elementalists are just plain better players by their very nature, or that there is a balance issue which needs to be addressed.

You’re wasting your time comparing Elementalist and Warrior abilities, the same way I’d be if I compared Necro mobility to Thief mobility. ANet have a design in mind, they have made their decisions and are enacting them in a few days.

As they say in Eve online:

“Adapt or die”

I chase Ele’s down all the time in WvW on my thief. Not hard to catch up with them. Thief is the only class that can disengage safely and reliably not the Ele….

This might be a bit off topic but are you D/P also?

Nope. Don’t need d/p when I have a near instant 2500 range gap closer.

Warlord.9074:

I think your just misunderstanding what I was trying to say, and I wasn’t clear what I meant. Rush alone doesn’t really set a warrior up to to damage. Its just a gap closer. Where as bulls charge sets a warrior up to do damage. A warrior could do rush + bullscharge or rush + traited blade trail to immobilize. But geneally not rush alone. Rush is eaisly evaded on top of that. Warrior melee weapon skils are like 130 range. where as elementalist dagger skills are over twice that range 300. So in a DD setup u RTL to get in 300 range basically and at that point you can deal damage and run around and stuff. Its not like that on a warrior. Then you can simply escape if you wanted to.

Its not weather or not the skills work the same but its in practice what the skill is often used for.

How exactly does RtL set up an elementalist more to do dps than rush does for a warrrior?

The max range on the DD set is 600m but there is no weapon swap so there is no swithig to range an option all of classes have if wanted. That being said the 130 range issue vs 300 is not approximate. Many melee attacks have deceptively long range especially those of Greatsword due to the size of the weapon. Also axes cleave is surprising wide on Double and triple chop.

Because someone doesn’t use Bull’s Charge ans mobility skill doesn’t mean it is not one. Whether you chose to use it that way or not is irrelevant as the fact is that it can be used that way.

As I have stated repeatedly in my warrior build a generic DD ele “can not” out run me. I have more mobility so the idea of an ele out running me is doesn’t make sense. It is the same for my thief. This assumption that ele can out run something faster than it is deeply flawed.

Warlord.9074:

Also I forgot to add that only goes for GS. If a warriors inst using a GS for example lets say they are using axe + shield and somthing else. Than Bulls charge is the only gap closer they have.

DD has to use /D for mobility warrior Sword or Greatsword. Both classes have to make concession to have it so it doesn’t matter. Mobile sets should be compared to other mobile sets.

MIrra.3604:

TheGuy.3568:

MIrra.3604:

I chase Ele’s down all the time in WvW on my thief. Not hard to catch up with them. Thief is the only class that can disengage safely and reliably not the Ele….

This might be a bit off topic but are you D/P also?

Nope. Don’t need d/p when I have a near instant 2500 range gap closer.

Shadowstep to Infiltrator’s to Steal?

Shouldn’t open up with RTL anyways. You should probably save it to run. RTL is so predictable only a bad player wouldn’t dodge it.

Doomdesire.9365:

Shouldn’t open up with RTL anyways. You should probably save it to run. RTL is so predictable only a bad player wouldn’t dodge it.

Sad to say this is true. The number of DD eles who run a rotation is staggering.

The funny thing is I Wv3 now a days on thief and warrior much more than ele due to this. Ele rotation can be optimized but it is predictable.

Doomdesire.9365:

Shouldn’t open up with RTL anyways. You should probably save it to run. RTL is so predictable only a bad player wouldn’t dodge it.

RTL is ONLY useful for situationally keeping yourself in melee range post-nerf. It is best used to run currently, but running isn’t really an option anymore. The new ele meta is that you are forced to stand toe-to-toe and whittle your opponents down. Running is suicide as you will be kited, caught, and killed. You better hope our healing and dodges can outpace their damage, or you aren’t very useful anymore. I sincerely think they want to force people out of D/D as focus actually has better skills for a dogfight, but being slow sucks. My ele is going into stasis/bank duty.

Warlord.9074:

RTL is still better than Bullcharge if you land it. 300 range longer and CD is twice as fast and its not affected by chill and cripple like bull charge. I honestly dont under stand what you are complaining about.

lol. 40% more HP on average, heavy armor, weapon swap, adrenaline, powerful burst…. how can you even compare the two things? xD

Just reducing RTL from 1500 to 1200 range is a big change, should have left it at that.

TheGuy.3568:

Iavra.8510:

It does make sense if you add to the math the insane amount of healing the current FOTM ele build can pull off. Being able to pop out of the fight, heal up and pop in again multiple times is a big part of what makes the build OP.

After the patch you will have to actually think about if you really want to use RtL to kite your opponent because it’s not so easy anymore to just reset the fight whenever and how often you want.

It’ not like they are destroying the build like they are doing with Condi-Mesmer.

You see it get that but this why I asked for logical responses. This has 0 to do with the weapon set or math for that matter.

What about bunker rangers? Healing is on Par or exceeds ele with more mobility and access to fear through the terrifying howl. A ranger doesn’t have to build bunker though and neither does ele. Healing arguments are pointless as the only class that can’t build for sustained healing is warrior.

None of the healing matters because all that matters is the weapon set. If an ele isn’t speced for healing how can you possibly justify this nerf?

Stick with the math, please.

only part worth responding to. never use ranger as a comparison. until the day that all other classes lose 40% of their DPS for 45 seconds out of every minute, you’re ALL better off than rangers.

Also, D/D deserved a nerf. Be glad they didn’t Smiter’s Boon it.

Chaosky.5276:

It seems like a better solution would have been to remove the stun-break aspect of Lightning Flash and Cleansing Fire (also implementing the Mist Form nerf, as much as I dislike it), as well as Fury from Zephyr’s Boon (to limit bunkers’ access to Vigor).
Then they could have improved the focus so that it became the go-to choice for bunker builds, which would have solved the mobility issue given its complete lack of mobility. (Yes, they could still have switched to an offhand dagger out of combat, but ele bunkers aren’t the only ones capable of that.)

It wouldn’t be an ideal solution, but it wouldn’t gut just about every other viable elementalist build, as well as mobility in other game modes.

After all this talk, what about Staff Ele’s? You know we do exist, right? We’re pretty much DOA the moment combat is initiated now. Mist Form is/was our one trick poney. If RTL is so vital for Ele’s, why wasn’t Staff given such a feature?

For Thieves, the true OP class in WvW since launch, Heartseeker can also do 5k! Where is that on any other mobility skill? Certainly RTL doesn’t do that.

I’m ticked about RTL because I mostly use D/D on reset to quickly bounce around to build. 40 sec c/d is a horrible idea for NON COMBAT uses!!!!

This is what happens when the game is revolving around sPvP. Keep everything sPvP out of PvE and WvW please????

stale.9785:

TheGuy.3568:

Iavra.8510:

It does make sense if you add to the math the insane amount of healing the current FOTM ele build can pull off. Being able to pop out of the fight, heal up and pop in again multiple times is a big part of what makes the build OP.

After the patch you will have to actually think about if you really want to use RtL to kite your opponent because it’s not so easy anymore to just reset the fight whenever and how often you want.

It’ not like they are destroying the build like they are doing with Condi-Mesmer.

You see it get that but this why I asked for logical responses. This has 0 to do with the weapon set or math for that matter.

What about bunker rangers? Healing is on Par or exceeds ele with more mobility and access to fear through the terrifying howl. A ranger doesn’t have to build bunker though and neither does ele. Healing arguments are pointless as the only class that can’t build for sustained healing is warrior.

None of the healing matters because all that matters is the weapon set. If an ele isn’t speced for healing how can you possibly justify this nerf?

Stick with the math, please.

only part worth responding to. never use ranger as a comparison. until the day that all other classes lose 40% of their DPS for 45 seconds out of every minute, you’re ALL better off than rangers.

Also, D/D deserved a nerf. Be glad they didn’t Smiter’s Boon it.

If you cant handle pet management then why should anyone sympathize? You have 2 pets and recall. Either you handle pet management or not that the current ranger meta. Having Pet issues with aoe/zerg has very little to do with roaming and is not relevant to this conversation whatsoever.

No other class has the capability to have 40% of there dps (closer to 50% or more for BM) to be up while there down. It true pet management, responsiveness, and survivabililty vs aoe need to be improved. This is not a forum for that conversation. The fact is bunker regen build on ranger is the closest example you can get to DD ele bunker amongst one of the mobile classes.

The comparison is valid. Stick with the context of the message not what you choose to read into it.

DeWolfe.2174:

After all this talk, what about Staff Ele’s? You know we do exist, right? We’re pretty much DOA the moment combat is initiated now. Mist Form is/was our one trick poney. If RTL is so vital for Ele’s, why wasn’t Staff given such a feature?

For Thieves, the true OP class in WvW since launch, Heartseeker can also do 5k! Where is that on any other mobility skill? Certainly RTL doesn’t do that.

I’m ticked about RTL because I mostly use D/D on reset to quickly bounce around to build. 40 sec c/d is a horrible idea for NON COMBAT uses!!!!

This is what happens when the game is revolving around sPvP. Keep everything sPvP out of PvE and WvW please????

While I understand staff issues (vs a single target it is way too underpowered) I do agree with the changes to cantrips synergy in the water line. Staff should have been looked at independently months ago. We have been asking for buffs for it for so long I do not care to recount the discourteousness we received because we haven’t heard a thing. Staff like focus and to a lesser extent scepter has seen its issues gone unnoticed for far too long.

I truly do sympathize but at the same time I am inclined to argue for Zerker DD ele first. It is very hard to argue for staff because so often anything we say goes unnoticed. Like I said in another post we were never the priority 4 months straight nerfs and one buff to scepter that’s it. This is our reality. I do not know how long we will have to wait to see improvements in fire, air, staff, scepter, and focus. I wouldn’t suggest you hold your breath.

autoduck.2837:

Anet’s goal was to punish the X/X/X/30/30 “BUNKER” DD Ele build but what they are doing in fact is destroying the zerker dd ele which is in no way OP. This RTL nerf will severely limit the viability of all non-bunker dd ele builds.

Anet, what is it that you want to do? Do you want to reduce the effectiveness of the cantrip dd ele? Or do you want everyone to stop playing the Elementalist all together?

If anything they are encouraging bunker builds.

Fuzzion.2504:

autoduck.2837:

Anet’s goal was to punish the X/X/X/30/30 “BUNKER” DD Ele build but what they are doing in fact is destroying the zerker dd ele which is in no way OP. This RTL nerf will severely limit the viability of all non-bunker dd ele builds.

Anet, what is it that you want to do? Do you want to reduce the effectiveness of the cantrip dd ele? Or do you want everyone to stop playing the Elementalist all together?

If anything they are encouraging bunker builds.

I think other DD eles understand that but, I don’t think the devs or the community at large understand that logic. Many of us have been around since before the grand EA nerf where bunker staff got shut down. We saw the surge to DD ele and super bunker builds. Same thing happened after the fury nerf more DD bunkers. Even the nerf to vigor was really more a nerf to zerk specs and a buff to bunkers if you think about it.

The thing is each nerf that is supposed to make DD bunker harder makes everything else hurt that much more. Instead of grating us more viable builds and forcing us out of bunker they are forcing into bunker or to just plain quit the class. It is sad but true. Honestly I see better options in jumping class than sticking on./shrug

stale.9785:

only part worth responding to. never use ranger as a comparison. until the day that all other classes lose 40% of their DPS for 45 seconds out of every minute, you’re ALL better off than rangers.

Also, D/D deserved a nerf. Be glad they didn’t Smiter’s Boon it.

do you even lift? ranger, bunker one to be precise, is one of Elementalist’s nemesis, more so for D/D (and god only knows how hard will it be without a gap closer), it takes ages to kill 1vs1 ’cause of our risible damage output.
D/D since launch deserves an huge damage output boost, and by huge I mean huge.

Grevender.9235:

D/D since launch deserves an huge damage output boost, and by huge I mean huge.

YES! At least that would be the logical conclusion! (poor hp, low armor… HIGH BURST!)

Grevender.9235:

stale.9785:

only part worth responding to. never use ranger as a comparison. until the day that all other classes lose 40% of their DPS for 45 seconds out of every minute, you’re ALL better off than rangers.

Also, D/D deserved a nerf. Be glad they didn’t Smiter’s Boon it.

do you even lift? ranger, bunker one to be precise, is one of Elementalist’s nemesis, more so for D/D (and god only knows how hard will it be without a gap closer), it takes ages to kill 1vs1 ’cause of our risible damage output.

I play bunker ranger so I am not going to lie I am really looking forward to the buff. The DPS should go up if they really fixed the AI.

Gugus.1462:

Grevender.9235:

D/D since launch deserves an huge damage output boost, and by huge I mean huge.

YES! At least that would be the logical conclusion! (poor hp, low armor… HIGH BURST!)

Actually they said they were going to do this months ago for the DD set. It was a long time back. They admitted that the burst DPS on DD was too low. Any who QQ started then that went Bye Bye.

TheGuy.3568:

I play bunker ranger so I am not going to lie I am really looking forward to the buff. The DPS should go up if they really fixed the AI.

did you try it against D/D ele? once you keep ‘em out of melee they go down easily against that build; it’s one of those I have most troubles dealing with.

Actually they said they were going to do this months ago for the DD set. It was a long time back. They admitted that the burst DPS on DD was too low. Any who QQ started then that went Bye Bye.

oh I do remember this, was late summer/early autumn, still the only things we’ve experienced are nerf and some very tiny puff on some traits.
I am convinced that for trading safety for melee, we should get raw nuking power beyond the sky.

Grevender.9235:

TheGuy.3568:

I play bunker ranger so I am not going to lie I am really looking forward to the buff. The DPS should go up if they really fixed the AI.

did you try it against D/D ele? once you keep ‘em out of melee they go down easily against that build; it’s one of those I have most troubles dealing with.

Actually they said they were going to do this months ago for the DD set. It was a long time back. They admitted that the burst DPS on DD was too low. Any who QQ started then that went Bye Bye.

oh I do remember this, was late summer/early autumn, still the only things we’ve experienced are nerf and some very tiny puff on some traits.
I am convinced that for trading safety for melee, we should get raw nuking power beyond the sky.

In WvW? No ( I haven’t bumped into a DD ele in Wv3 on that toon in a while). In Spvp? yes and it can work. The is entirely reliant upon the cat and wolf getting their DPS and knockdowns off. Even when I swap to GS I basically CC for the pet the entire time. Then I switch back to SB and kite.

The main thing that attracts me to bunker ranger is how strong it can be as long as you are creating gaps in the opponents DPS. Since so much of the healing is purely passive its like if they don’t stick to you then you end up healing. If you can get them into melee and give the pet a somewhat stationary target the Dps they put out (especially cats) its quite good. It got nerfed a while back but the DPS is still solid. Wolf can provide some decent CC if you need to gap or just want to run. Empathic Bond is also great because if can really do a good job of keeping you from getting cc’d. It really is one of my favorite specs. Has one of the best blocks in the game also in counterattack one of the best thing about this skill is as long as the attack isn’t in melee range the block will hold for the 4 second duration.

The only downsides are your personal dps is laughable and you really don’t get much in the way of burst healing.

Sorry for the wall I really like that build lol.

I do not think well get a dps increase anytime soon if ever but it was on the table once lol.