Guild Wars 2

Rush

Charge and strike your foe.

Damage: 628 (1.7)?
Range: 1,200

Ride of the Lightening

Ride the lightning to your foe, then strike all nearby foes with an electrical burst. If a foe is hit by the burst, the skill’s recharge is halved.

Damage: 336 (1.00)?
Radius: 180
Range: 1,200

These two skills are practically the same in what they are meant to achieve (gap closer or creating distance) yet one is significantly weaker then the other . The warrior skill rush does not evoke a cooldown when no target is hit, has higher damage and is effected by swiftness meaning that the it can travel up to 1600m.

The elementalist skill ride the lightening is significantly weaker as cooldown increases to 40 seconds if no target is hit, has lower base damage and is not affected by swiftness. The only advantage of ride the lightening is that it’s aoe and is unaffected by cripple and chill (although cooldown increase still applies) .

This however was not always the case. Once upon time when the ele was “OP” ride of the lightening was significantly nerfed from 15 seconds cooldown to 20 seconds and 40 seconds if nothing is hit. Since Anet have shown their willingness to revert some of these nerfs maybe they can see it in their heart to undo the nerf and change it to a 20 seconds flat cooldown making it on par with the warrior rush skill.

Sadly, putting this back to 20 seconds would probably make the Triple Cantrip Celestial Eles that have been running around go from simply viable to insanely overpowered again in sPvP.

I don’t think it will every happen it’s been brought up for about 1.5 years now. It always comes up again when a new balance patch approaches but they havent reverted it. If Eles have indeed made it back into the meta then they definitely won’t revert it.

What Neko said is probably why this is off the table even more so now. I just put 20 in air now take the cooldown reduction. Shocking aura is up every 20 seconds RTL is 32 with no hit it’s not so bad but it isn’t the old RTL but it works.

Ahh okay I can see where you are coming from but I think they should at least make it affected by swiftness to increase it’s effectiveness.

RTL is fine as it is.-
Our mobility is good enough.Other things need to be reworked with daggers like churning earth and Fire Grab being the most difficult skills to land in the game with little reward.

And this is when PvP players thibks the game is only PvP.

Out of PvP, RTL was the defining skill of a weapon that needs to have low cd.
But lets balance the game around the 1%… expecially when PvP means Player vs points.

Neko.9021:

Sadly, putting this back to 20 seconds would probably make the Triple Cantrip Celestial Eles that have been running around go from simply viable to insanely overpowered again in sPvP.

while I agree with your statement, given the proportions of pvp maps, don’t you think that should be about time for a.net to focus on balancing stuff in their specific environment?
40 sec cd on RTL are wrong to begin with, no matter if pvp or whatever else, but this aside, in WvW is a major penalty (all other classes -mesmer aside, but it got other ways to handle the situation- can do better than this without having to face the limits of Ele class).

Neko.9021:

Sadly, putting this back to 20 seconds would probably make the Triple Cantrip Celestial Eles that have been running around go from simply viable to insanely overpowered again in sPvP.

Considering Warriors fly left and right through the maps now + so much else I respectfully disagree.

If they made ride the lightning a 25 second CD at most the skill would more than likely be used every ~30-35 seconds. Since air is an important part of sustaining dps, fresh air builds would really have something quite viable at their finger tips then.

Swim.6830:

Neko.9021:

Sadly, putting this back to 20 seconds would probably make the Triple Cantrip Celestial Eles that have been running around go from simply viable to insanely overpowered again in sPvP.

Considering Warriors fly left and right through the maps now + so much else I respectfully disagree.

Warriors running left and right in sPvP? I don’t generally see that. They’re generally Hammer+Longbow (poor mobility) or Sword/Sword+Longbow (decent mobility). D/D Ele is still more mobile than either of those.

One thing you forgot to mention is that Rush is affected by cripple, chill, etc. while RTL is not. Whether this is balanced or not I don’t know. Both skills should be reflected fairly in your opening post though.

Woops you’re right when I tested the two skills I didn’t have anyone applying conditions on me. I think both are affected by immobilize right?

Also edited the original post to reflect the change.

Caom.9251:

Woops you’re right when I tested the two skills I didn’t have anyone applying conditions on me. I think both are affected by immobilize right?

Yes, that is right. I’m fine with RTL not being affected by cripple; You’re nto running or sliding along the ground. You’re literally riding a bolt of lightening, I do not believe this should be change. RTL can still be hit by imbolize though, I feel the skill is balance right now. Especially since we can get a 20 CD by merely “touching” an enemy. It can even be an ambient creature and bam 20 second CD.

Caom.9251:

Woops you’re right when I tested the two skills I didn’t have anyone applying conditions on me. I think both are affected by immobilize right?

Also edited the original post to reflect the change.

I’m not 100% sure, but I don’t think you can immobilize someone in the middle of RTL, but using RTL after you are immobilized turns you into an angry ball of lightning that is stuck there. I don’t remember how rush is affected by immobilize though, or if it can be immobilized in the middle of the skill or not.

I would only want them to change one thing: If you end the skill within 200 range of an opponent it’s CD is half. This makes blocks, blinds, evades, aegis etc not nullify the skill when it is used a gap closer.

As it is, when you DO use it as a gap-closer, 50% of the time it ends up on a 40s CD and you are SoL if your opponent tries to kite you. It’s not a big deal on a capture node, but makes D/D much worse in WvW. Most of the time, its either a 200 range “extra burst” or a 1200 range skill saved to gtfo.

The proposed change makes “run away, heal, come back” not possible in PvP, while allowing the skill to better fulfill its role in other game-modes.

Its still possible.
RTL CD oly hurts offensive side.

You can still run away with it.
What prevents ele to use it as before is the decreased range already.

So hard to catch a sword/x GS warrior with bull’s charge and lemongrass + dogged march.

sorrychief.2563:

So hard to catch a sword/x GS warrior with bull’s charge and lemongrass + dogged march.

Good thing that build doesn’t really do anything other than run away really fast.

RtL, aside from CD, is fine as it is. It doesn’t need any range boost from swiftness as it already ignores the effects of cripple and chill.

Let’s say just lower the base CD to 30s for a start. I’d love to see it apply Blindness or Weakness too.

They should think about increasing the damage and/or adding a useful secondary effect to it if changing the cooldown is out of the question. As it stands, rtl is a weak skill that has almost no damage potential, is easily locked onto a long cooldown, and is punishing to use when running, the enemy is going down, or when the enemy can dodge. I think strengthening the skill’s offensive side would greatly improve it’s viability and better justify it’s long cooldown.

I will not be satisfied with RTL until we can do this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=sFwuC2zcQdM

Posted this in another thread:

Decrease range to 900
Have only a single recharge of 20s
Only do damage to selected target if hit
Blind up to 5 foes in a radius of 180
Problem solved AND is more like its GW1 counterpart!

My changes would bring it in line with the Ele’s other gap closers, and increase the Ele’s overall mobility, without making the profession OP. Not having an AoE Blind on our “brawling” set is a huge oversight in terms of balance anyways, since this is a great way to mitigate damage. And since the Ele has no inherent class feature that can mitigate damage (such as Stealth, DS, etc.) having access to disabling conditions is kind of mandatory honestly.

Kaleban that would kill DD istantly.

At that point even without stealth almost every class could exit a fight at will against DD ele.

1200 is mandatory.

Neko.9021:

sorrychief.2563:

So hard to catch a sword/x GS warrior with bull’s charge and lemongrass + dogged march.

Good thing that build doesn’t really do anything other than run away really fast.

Yea and they know it. Warriors running that who are actually roaming are only trolling and want you to chase them. I always laugh when a warrior engages me with a power sword build it just does no damage at all.

LordByron.8369:

Kaleban that would kill DD istantly.

At that point even without stealth almost every class could exit a fight at will against DD ele.

1200 is mandatory.

How… exactly?

A range of 300 on one movement skill is an entire weapon set “killer”?

If you look at my changes, you’d also see a base recharge of 20 seconds, meaning with Aeromancer’s Alacrity you’d have a 900 range, AoE Blind every 16 seconds, that you could use as you wanted without having to hit a target, just like every other mobility skill in the game. Plus that Blind effect would give an Ele just a bit more active defense that the Profession desperately needs, given no other inherent profession based defense and severe nerfing of healing.

Currently, several professions do have much better mobility than Eles, such as Thieves, Warriors and Rangers. Plus, there are several professions that don’t have even Ele level mobility that compete just fine in both PvP and WvW, making use of effects like Cripple and Immobilize.

I fail to see the reasoning behind your over the top assertion.

Kaleban.9834:

Posted this in another thread:

Decrease range to 900
Have only a single recharge of 20s
Only do damage to selected target if hit
Blind up to 5 foes in a radius of 180
Problem solved AND is more like its GW1 counterpart!

I agree with this. Also to keep that “if you hit an enemy”. If you hit, this effect trigger. If not hit an enemy it dont trigger, but instead you do a leap/dodgeroll at 300range. Of course no dmg or blind from that extra range.

We’re wearing a loin cloth, why shouldn’t we run faster than something in heavy plate?

katniss.6735:

We’re wearing a lion cloth, why shouldn’t we run faster than something in heavy plate?

because A.Net’s logic!
My gigantic Charr Warrior in fullplate:
swirl + sword rush + bull rush + sword 2 = around 3000 units, nearly no cooldown

my paper dressed tiny hooman Ele:
RTL = 1200 units, 40s CD

sorrychief.2563:

I will not be satisfied with RTL until we can do this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=sFwuC2zcQdM

sir, please don’t ever, ever Ever, ever, everr compare or allude to elemental mages in other games, because    in this one    they are simply a deficiency

…ever

cheshirefox.7026:

sorrychief.2563:

I will not be satisfied with RTL until we can do this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=sFwuC2zcQdM

sir, please don’t ever, ever Ever, ever, everr compare or allude to elemental mages in other games, because in this one they are simply a deficiency

…ever

Only if RTL nerf is reverted!

Grevender.9235:

katniss.6735:

We’re wearing a lion cloth, why shouldn’t we run faster than something in heavy plate?

because A.Net’s logic!
My gigantic Charr Warrior in fullplate:
swirl + sword rush + bull rush + sword 2 = around 3000 units, nearly no cooldown

my paper dressed tiny hooman Ele:
RTL = 1200 units, 40s CD

that sounds dangerously close to being on par with warrior. anet should further buff those warrior skills and nerf RTL.

I already asked Karl about this on a twitch stream chat. His answer was rather depressing and makes me wonder if he actually plays this game. He said that the balance team has no plans on reverting RTL. He also said when RTL is used offensively a good ele should check for blinds or enemy blocks.

Neko.9021:

Sadly, putting this back to 20 seconds would probably make the Triple Cantrip Celestial Eles that have been running around go from simply viable to insanely overpowered again in sPvP.

As if warriors aren’t greatly over powered…

ReSpect.7125:

Kaleban.9834:

Posted this in another thread:

Decrease range to 900
Have only a single recharge of 20s
Only do damage to selected target if hit
Blind up to 5 foes in a radius of 180
Problem solved AND is more like its GW1 counterpart!

I agree with this. Also to keep that “if you hit an enemy”. If you hit, this effect trigger. If not hit an enemy it dont trigger, but instead you do a leap/dodgeroll at 300range. Of course no dmg or blind from that extra range.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
RTL used to be more than 1200 range (though the tooltip didn’t say that) Now you want to reduce it even further? I Use RTL in lots of jp as short cuts and I can only barely make it since they decided to nerf the range
If they do decrease the base range attleast let it be affected by airs super speed
(switch into air for super speed- use RTL and jumps 1800 range)

Eviscera.9703:

I already asked Karl about this on a twitch stream chat. His answer was rather depressing and makes me wonder if he actually plays this game. He said that the balance team has no plans on reverting RTL. He also said when RTL is used offensively a good ele should check for blinds or enemy blocks.

Meanwhile another class can counter your defense mechanic on the same cooldown with an unblockable skill of the same range. No need to check for blocks, aegis or stability there… http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Corrupt_Boon

A factor that has to be considered is how it was used and abused.
Warriors rushh as always been more around breaking distance to start or return to melee range and of course to break distance at times and was nothing amazing in our view.

Ride the lightning on the other hand was considered OP because it was used so much as a escape measure and the start of a crushing combo that torn most players apart unless they saw it coming straight on.

I believe this was the major deciding factor that resulted in RTL’s time nerf. Elementalist did what all good players do. Take something that was created and use it to its highest potential and beyond which of course got anet’s attention and was quickly nerfed because they realized to late just how dangerous its potental was. If warriors started using rush in a similar fashion that created some amazing OP combo it would be nerfed right into RTL’s current position as well.

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

Neko.9021:

Sadly, putting this back to 20 seconds would probably make the Triple Cantrip Celestial Eles that have been running around go from simply viable to insanely overpowered again in sPvP.

As if warriors aren’t greatly over powered…

as they are now, decap Engi and MM Necros are far beyond any Warr opness (yep, even more op than hambow ones)

Grevender.9235:

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

Neko.9021:

Sadly, putting this back to 20 seconds would probably make the Triple Cantrip Celestial Eles that have been running around go from simply viable to insanely overpowered again in sPvP.

As if warriors aren’t greatly over powered…

as they are now, decap Engi and MM Necros are far beyond any Warr opness (yep, even more op than hambow ones)

A lot of people on the below thread would disagree with you simply because we don’t see those builds in the tournaments. That OBVIOUSLY means they are balanced right?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Condition-Wars-2

Use Fiery GS for increased mobility.

Grevender.9235:

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

Neko.9021:

Sadly, putting this back to 20 seconds would probably make the Triple Cantrip Celestial Eles that have been running around go from simply viable to insanely overpowered again in sPvP.

As if warriors aren’t greatly over powered…

as they are now, decap Engi and MM Necros are far beyond any Warr opness (yep, even more op than hambow ones)

decap engi can be easily countered with invulnerability and stability…
MM necros you just have to spam aoe’s around you to take down their minions.
Hambow warriors are easy to beat with a tanky warrior build.
I’m talking about the tanky signet warrior with shield and warhorn. AoE debuff, perma swiftness, 3700 armor 800 hp/s regen, shout healing condi removing warrior that can burst down zerkers with ease.

Minion necromancers are also way easier to beat now then ever. The minion AI has been completely messed up. Power Necromancers with 100% crit chance and 200+ crit damage 40k hp etc. those are WAY more dangerous.
Or a well played zerker rifle engineer can down an elementalist in 1 second.

Swim.6830:

That OBVIOUSLY means they are balanced right?

I’d say super-obviously perfectly balanced!

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

decap engi can be easily countered with invulnerability and stability…

do you realize that Ele should build specifically to counter that exact class build, while said Engi would just continue to vaporize everything in its path without breaking a sweat?

MM necros you just have to spam aoe’s around you to take down their minions.

same as above, although I am unsure if the amount of conditions from engi will eat ele faster than necro….

Hambow warriors are easy to beat with a tanky warrior build.

/cough/ we are in the Elementalist forum talking about Elementalists….

Swim.6830:

Eviscera.9703:

I already asked Karl about this on a twitch stream chat. His answer was rather depressing and makes me wonder if he actually plays this game. He said that the balance team has no plans on reverting RTL. He also said when RTL is used offensively a good ele should check for blinds or enemy blocks.

Meanwhile another class can counter your defense mechanic on the same cooldown with an unblockable skill of the same range. No need to check for blocks, aegis or stability there… http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Corrupt_Boon

No cast time.

Kaleban.9834:

LordByron.8369:

Kaleban that would kill DD istantly.

At that point even without stealth almost every class could exit a fight at will against DD ele.

1200 is mandatory.

How… exactly?

A range of 300 on one movement skill is an entire weapon set “killer”?

easy:
Your opponent use any 1200 range movement skill and he is out of range from DD…GG.

Grevender.9235:

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

decap engi can be easily countered with invulnerability and stability…

do you realize that Ele should build specifically to counter that exact class build, while said Engi would just continue to vaporize everything in its path without breaking a sweat?

MM necros you just have to spam aoe’s around you to take down their minions.

same as above, although I am unsure if the amount of conditions from engi will eat ele faster than necro….

Hambow warriors are easy to beat with a tanky warrior build.

/cough/ we are in the Elementalist forum talking about Elementalists….

Okay to prove my point here is what happened yesterday:
MM necro, decap engi and a condi mesmer all hacking on me and my allies. All my allies are downed, I stay at 100% hp and no condis the intire time rezzing my allies all the time and stomping foes that get downed. after 5 minutes I start getting whispers from the MM necro and the decap engi saying ‘hacks!’ and ‘reported’….
It ended as soon as a zerker thief hit me with a backstab though.

LordByron.8369:

easy:
Your opponent use any 1200 range movement skill and he is out of range from DD…GG.

By that logic any weaponset that doesn’t have equivalent movement capability would render said profession or weaponset useless.

As the important bits of PvP are capture point-hold, escape mechanisms are not as important as invulns, blocks, evades, etc. and don’t determine the fight.

A long range movement skill on short CD is really only important as a QoL issue in PvE, or as a solo/small-team roamer in WvW, neither of which cripple or “kill” a profession or weapon set’s viability.

So no, you’re wrong in your assertion. A small decrease in range for a 50% reduction in cooldown is easily a smart trade-off for any area in which said skill or weaponset would be used. Especially in conjunction with active defense mechanics, such as my additional suggestion of adding an AoE Blind, which fits with the skillset and is in keeping with its GW1 roots.

Other weaponset doesn t have the highest CD in the game and other profession aren’t locked into a range.

Other professions can switch.

A D/D ele is already quite slow.

Kaleban.9834:

As the important bits of PvP are capture point-hold, escape mechanisms are not as important as invulns, blocks, evades, etc. and don’t determine the fight.

this is exactly what’s ruining fights in this game: fights being balanced on mechanics other than pure 1v1 killspree.
It would be like balancing Boxe matches on how many bottles of water they can drink in between each round.

Caom.9251:

Ahh okay I can see where you are coming from but I think they should at least make it affected by swiftness to increase it’s effectiveness.

Really bad idea man as if it is affected by swiftness it is affected by chill and cripple too. Would be less beneficial overall i think.