Guild Wars 2

eldain stenlund.4306:

Teevell.1684:

There is no mage in this game. If you want one, play WOW. Or DND online. Or Neverwinter or Elder Scrolls when they come out.

Elemental is not a mage, and most of the problems I read about on these forums come from people not leaving their previous MMO experience and preconceptions at the door.

I love my ele despite its flaws (and it does have them).

Just for fun.. what do you call a Master elementalist as class then ??
*Warlock ??
*Wizard ??
*Sorcerer ??
*Mage ??
*Elementalist ??
note. these are all mages.

What? Your question doesn’t make sense to me.

What? Your question doesn’t make sense to me.

realy ?

You dont want to call the elemental a mage class.. so.. what class is it then ?

eldain stenlund.4306:

You dont want to call the elemental a mage class.. so.. what class is it then ?

The class is called… Elementalist. <.< Of the scholar profession.

I don’t know why everyone is so hung up on all those words. You think that by simply calling it an elementalist or mage, it will define the class to its core and what it is and what it’s not. Just do it simple. Read the GW2’s class presentation.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/elementalist/
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elementalist

Scholars. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Scholar

paleeshi.1924:

eldain stenlund.4306:

You dont want to call the elemental a mage class.. so.. what class is it then ?

The class is called… Elementalist. <.< Of the scholar profession.

I don’t know why everyone is so hung up on all those words. You think that by simply calling it an elementalist or mage, it will define the class to its core and what it is and what it’s not. Just do it simple. Read the GW2’s class presentation.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/elementalist/
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elementalist

Scholars. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Scholar

Pretty much this. Stop trying to play a traditional MMO mage and instead try to play the GW2 ele and the profession may become more enjoyable.

Chaosky.5276:

Honestly, I find eles to be one of the less versatile classes when it comes to combat. Sure, I have a mixture of damage, healing, and CC skills that other classes may not, but as an ele, I have to choose between damage or ranged capability, zerging or roaming – I don’t need to do that as, say, a d/d-staff necro.

I don’t see the problem? You just swap to D/D or staff out of combat when situation requires. And you mostly don’t have to respec for it, since most builds works pretty much with every weapon set. Just cause you cannot swap in combat as Ele, it doesn’t mean you have to stay with that particular weapon set/roll forever.

paleeshi.1924:

Chaosky.5276:

Honestly, I find eles to be one of the less versatile classes when it comes to combat. Sure, I have a mixture of damage, healing, and CC skills that other classes may not, but as an ele, I have to choose between damage or ranged capability, zerging or roaming – I don’t need to do that as, say, a d/d-staff necro.

I don’t see the problem? You just swap to D/D or staff out of combat when situation requires. And you mostly don’t have to respec for it, since most builds works pretty much with every weapon set. Just cause you cannot swap in combat as Ele, it doesn’t mean you have to stay with that particular weapon set/roll forever.

I want versatility in terms of RANGE. As an ele, if I want to duel, I don’t have any effective ranged options – however, the lack of effective ranged solo-oriented weapons wouldn’t matter nearly as much if I could just switch from staff to d/d when things got rough.
Now, of course eles shouldn’t get weapon swapping as well as attunement swapping, but I want to point out that attunement swapping doesn’t allow me to react to a given situation as effectively as weapon swapping.

(inb4 play another class, which isn’t an option because lol roleplaying)

Chaosky.5276:

paleeshi.1924:

Chaosky.5276:

Honestly, I find eles to be one of the less versatile classes when it comes to combat. Sure, I have a mixture of damage, healing, and CC skills that other classes may not, but as an ele, I have to choose between damage or ranged capability, zerging or roaming – I don’t need to do that as, say, a d/d-staff necro.

I don’t see the problem? You just swap to D/D or staff out of combat when situation requires. And you mostly don’t have to respec for it, since most builds works pretty much with every weapon set. Just cause you cannot swap in combat as Ele, it doesn’t mean you have to stay with that particular weapon set/roll forever.

I want versatility in terms of RANGE. As an ele, if I want to duel, I don’t have any effective ranged options – however, the lack of effective ranged solo-oriented weapons wouldn’t matter nearly as much if I could just switch from staff to d/d when things got rough.
Now, of course eles shouldn’t get weapon swapping as well as attunement swapping, but I want to point out that attunement swapping doesn’t allow me to react to a given situation as effectively as weapon swapping.

(inb4 play another class, which isn’t an option because lol roleplaying)

I do have to agree with this. I completely understand why we don’t have weapon swapping. 4 attunements gives us access to a LOT of skills. However it can really screw you over in some situations. Anet has said over and over again that you should be able to adapt your play style to the situation, and leaving ele’s stuck with either meelee or ranged (unless they can get out of battle which isn’t always possible) contradicts this.
Yes you can argue that we have weapon summons, but they are a really ridiculous substitute, they last a short amount of time and have long cooldowns on both the activation skill and the actual weapon skills.

They almost need to allow Ele’s to set which weapon they want for which attunement, so if you went into Fire you would have your staff, but switching attunement into water would swap you into dagger (just as an example). Obviously that complicates things a lot, but at least you have access to some range diversity that way. (and a whole slew of balance issues concerning weapon combos, but oh well xD)

I don’t see the problem? You just swap to D/D or staff out of combat when situation requires. And you mostly don’t have to respec for it, since most builds works pretty much with every weapon set. Just cause you cannot swap in combat as Ele, it doesn’t mean you have to stay with that particular weapon set/roll forever.

I agree with your reasoning, but the problem seems to be that there are so few situations where D/D is not equally good or better than Staff. Staff would be so much more viable if you could either:

A) Reliably down your target from a distance in a 1v1 scenario—consistently.
^which is OP imo

-or-

B) Have instant access to all of your tools across all 4 attunements (no swap cooldowns).

Someone explain to me why Elementalists are expected to perform with 9+ seconds of lock-out from at least 5 of their abilities at all times after opening combat. Lock-out becomes more than 5 abilities if you are quickly chaining a combo across attunements. Without a deep Arcana spec, this problem is amplified.

I would understand locking us out of other attunements if it were possible to run competitively with just one. I don’t think it’s possible.

Swap cooldowns are forcing us into creating combos that link fluidly across the 4 attunements. These combos are really good in the right situation but so much of combat is reactive that it becomes difficult to apply it to a small engagement. (D/D’s setup seems to fare well in these situations—could be part of the reason why players choose it over Staff and label Staff as “support only.”) IMO, gameplay would be more interesting if you could bounce back and forth between attunements, choosing the proper skill not proper attunement for the situation.

If we’re locked out of attunements, we can’t effectively micro-manage a 1v1 because by the time we regain access to the skill that we need, the opportunity for using it is over.

My perspective is that Ele’s strength is supposed to be it’s ability to employ 20 skills, allowing us to adapt to reactive combat. However, we can’t use all 20 abilities in a given situation, it seems that we are stuck with:

5 | 5 | 5 | 5

I’d appreciate if someone could tell me why this suggestion wouldn’t work, be it balancing or any other reason.

Chaosky.5276:

paleeshi.1924:

Chaosky.5276:

Honestly, I find eles to be one of the less versatile classes when it comes to combat. Sure, I have a mixture of damage, healing, and CC skills that other classes may not, but as an ele, I have to choose between damage or ranged capability, zerging or roaming – I don’t need to do that as, say, a d/d-staff necro.

I don’t see the problem? You just swap to D/D or staff out of combat when situation requires. And you mostly don’t have to respec for it, since most builds works pretty much with every weapon set. Just cause you cannot swap in combat as Ele, it doesn’t mean you have to stay with that particular weapon set/roll forever.

I want versatility in terms of RANGE. As an ele, if I want to duel, I don’t have any effective ranged options – however, the lack of effective ranged solo-oriented weapons wouldn’t matter nearly as much if I could just switch from staff to d/d when things got rough.
Now, of course eles shouldn’t get weapon swapping as well as attunement swapping, but I want to point out that attunement swapping doesn’t allow me to react to a given situation as effectively as weapon swapping.

(inb4 play another class, which isn’t an option because lol roleplaying)

I can see what you’re saying but weapon swapping in combat would make us too OP with our attunement swapping. I think that our weapons are designed to keep us at a range, since we can’t swap. Staff skills have slows etc. On them to help you get back to long range. Perhaps the real problem is they’re not effective enough.

xbaunx.6438:

I’d appreciate if someone could tell me why this suggestion wouldn’t work, be it balancing or any other reason.

Y’know, I’m honestly not sure there would be an issue, provided that bonuses dependent on switching attunement were place on internal cooldowns. It’d certainly help the non-dagger weapons, seeing as their attunements are more situationally dependent (the scepter’s air attunement offers what are pretty much the weapon’s only effective options at range, for example).
The only issue I see that may arise as a result is that Arcana would become less desirable, but I’d rather that than its current necessity, and traits like Elemental Attunement and Renewing Stamina would still completely justify spending 20 points.

Teevell.1684:

I can see what you’re saying but weapon swapping in combat would make us too OP with our attunement swapping. I think that our weapons are designed to keep us at a range, since we can’t swap. Staff skills have slows etc. On them to help you get back to long range. Perhaps the real problem is they’re not effective enough.

Although it can be an issue, my gripes are more about actually hitting enemies at range than keeping them there.

paleeshi.1924:

eldain stenlund.4306:

You dont want to call the elemental a mage class.. so.. what class is it then ?

The class is called… Elementalist. <.< Of the scholar profession.

I don’t know why everyone is so hung up on all those words. You think that by simply calling it an elementalist or mage, it will define the class to its core and what it is and what it’s not. Just do it simple. Read the GW2’s class presentation.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/elementalist/
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elementalist

Scholars. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Scholar

Scholar. synonyms.

teacher, student, wizard. etc.

so we have: warriors, guardians, thieves, engineers, and then 3 students ??

Or do we have warriors, guardians, thieves, engineers, and then 3 wizards focusing on different fields.

I can guarantee you that A-net is not using the name Student, when looking at the class core.

and not matter how “innovative” they want to be, when you create a class wich can controll nature, energies, and dark forces around. they are a mage class in core.

and everyone knows this.. and expects this.
and when we then find the elemental class. (wich is a mage), Is working more like a magic using thief, because A-net decided to feel “innovative”.
then something is wrong.

Dagger/Dagger for all situations.. but keep guarding.. GREAT Innovation A-net…
whats next, innnovation for warrior: Dagger/Dagger. ???

Something along the way from Core —- Finished class, went bad.

I usualy hate when people get nerfed.
But in this case, i hope DD gets a realy strong one.

DD is the innovative way to play a mage.
But it should not dominate as it is now.

eldain stenlund.4306:

DD is the innovative way to play a mage.
But it should not dominate as it is now.

Infact its not….
S/D cantrip is “dominating”

The awful pattern i see in anet Patches.

Nerf to the ground a weaponset….give COMPLETE random buff to Others….

Staff was viable?
nerf it to the ground and buff D/D!

D/D is strong?
Nerf it and buff scepter…..

What i fear most is they will now nerf offhand dagger and traits…..
Because now we have conjured weapons…

I mean its clear that i’ve chosen a mage/scholar/wizard/elementalist to go melee with a hammer….how could they not see it"

Hammer is so appropriate for elementalists…

.______. the day it happens i will completely quit this profession.
If i wanted to use a hammer i would’ve used a warrior -.-

eldain stenlund.4306:

paleeshi.1924:

eldain stenlund.4306:

You dont want to call the elemental a mage class.. so.. what class is it then ?

The class is called… Elementalist. <.< Of the scholar profession.

I don’t know why everyone is so hung up on all those words. You think that by simply calling it an elementalist or mage, it will define the class to its core and what it is and what it’s not. Just do it simple. Read the GW2’s class presentation.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/professions/elementalist/
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elementalist

Scholars. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Scholar

Scholar. synonyms.

teacher, student, wizard. etc.

so we have: warriors, guardians, thieves, engineers, and then 3 students ??

Or do we have warriors, guardians, thieves, engineers, and then 3 wizards focusing on different fields.

I can guarantee you that A-net is not using the name Student, when looking at the class core.

and not matter how “innovative” they want to be, when you create a class wich can controll nature, energies, and dark forces around. they are a mage class in core.

and everyone knows this.. and expects this.
and when we then find the elemental class. (wich is a mage), Is working more like a magic using thief, because A-net decided to feel “innovative”.
then something is wrong.

Dagger/Dagger for all situations.. but keep guarding.. GREAT Innovation A-net…
whats next, innnovation for warrior: Dagger/Dagger. ???

Something along the way from Core —- Finished class, went bad.

I usualy hate when people get nerfed.
But in this case, i hope DD gets a realy strong one.

DD is the innovative way to play a mage.
But it should not dominate as it is now.

QFT

Now that I got that off my chest, there is absolutely no weapon, from a PVE and WvW standpoint, that outclasses every other in EVERY situation. Just carry all your weapons on you, shell out some extra gold to have a staff, scepter, two daggers, and a focus, and just use the right tool for the right job. Big mob pulls use a staff, single target that must remain at a range S/D, close distance fights D/D, heavy group-killing range S/F or D/F. Can just /thread this already? There really isn’t a weapon that is perfect for every situation.

I am a lvl 80 elementalist and I got all weapons and gear. Basically you need to prepare for any type of battle you’re gonna expect. In some dungeon instances the scepter-focus is the best choice, in keep battles its the staff. For wvw roaming its D/D and for general PvE content the S/D would probably be the best choice.
As for the stats/gear you choose should depend on your teammates. I often go full support D/D with 1k healing power when I team up with a team of glass cannons and I gear to rampager with S/F for dungeons where we have attleast one support oriented ally already. In WvW when I want to burst people down quickly without any regards to my life I go S/D full berserker with arcana slot-skills.

Learn to play and adapt, think outside the box before you start bickering about whats in the box.

Now that I got that off my chest, there is absolutely no weapon, from a PVE and WvW standpoint, that outclasses every other in EVERY situation. Just carry all your weapons on you, shell out some extra gold to have a staff, scepter, two daggers, and a focus, and just use the right tool for the right job.

I agree that this is our best approach at the moment. However, each weapon represents a different combat style, range and skill set.

We’re asking Ele’s to gather all weapon sets, master 60 skills, learn 60 cooldown timings, master 3 play styles, 3 types of range (and maneuverability best suited for each range), and develop a trait scheme that lends itself a little bit to all 3 play styles but commits to none. Ele must do this just to be on par with the other classes when discussing a variety of situations. A class that boasts versatility shouldn’t have to improvise pre-combat, irreversible weapon selections just to break free of it’s inability to react to changes during combat.

I love that we’re expected to master so many facets of combat but it’s a little disappointing when your result is not something to be admired. Maybe I’m doing it wrong, but it seems a little clunky to have to swap in the desired weapon set before opening combat and then be locked-out from swapping again. Our attunements should be making up for this, but they aren’t able to because attunement swap cooldowns prevent us from adapting to reactive combat.

xbaunx.6438:

Now that I got that off my chest, there is absolutely no weapon, from a PVE and WvW standpoint, that outclasses every other in EVERY situation. Just carry all your weapons on you, shell out some extra gold to have a staff, scepter, two daggers, and a focus, and just use the right tool for the right job.

I agree that this is our best approach at the moment. However, each weapon represents a different combat style, range and skill set.

We’re asking Ele’s to gather all weapon sets, master 60 skills, learn 60 cooldown timings, master 3 play styles, 3 types of range (and maneuverability best suited for each range), and develop a trait scheme that lends itself a little bit to all 3 play styles but commits to none. Ele must do this just to be on par with the other classes when discussing a variety of situations. A class that boasts versatility shouldn’t have to improvise pre-combat, irreversible weapon selections just to break free of it’s inability to react to changes during combat.

I love that we’re expected to master so many facets of combat but it’s a little disappointing when your result is not something to be admired. Maybe I’m doing it wrong, but it seems a little clunky to have to swap in the desired weapon set before opening combat and then be locked-out from swapping again. Our attunements should be making up for this, but they aren’t able to because attunement swap cooldowns prevent us from adapting to reactive combat.

It’s the nature on the class. If you want low-input/high-output roll a warrior/guardian.

I disagree about the end result, though. Elementalists are the only class on the forums that people simultaneously cry for nerfs and buffs. You get out of it what you put in, with a high skill ceiling.

You can get by sufficiently just playing one weapon set. But if you really want to shine, you gotta put in 110% effort, learn all the weapon sets, and anticipate what kind of scenarios you’ll likely find yourself in.

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

I am a lvl 80 elementalist and I got all weapons and gear. Basically you need to prepare for any type of battle you’re gonna expect. In some dungeon instances the scepter-focus is the best choice, in keep battles its the staff. For wvw roaming its D/D and for general PvE content the S/D would probably be the best choice.
As for the stats/gear you choose should depend on your teammates. I often go full support D/D with 1k healing power when I team up with a team of glass cannons and I gear to rampager with S/F for dungeons where we have attleast one support oriented ally already. In WvW when I want to burst people down quickly without any regards to my life I go S/D full berserker with arcana slot-skills.

Learn to play and adapt, think outside the box before you start bickering about whats in the box.

So, you are saying: i need to do this in a dungeon.. or pvp. or wvw.

“STOP, i need to change everything before we go into the next room,
I have my support stuff on me, i need my dps now…
*room 1 cleared…

STOP, i need to change everything again. i need to get my AoE kit.(weapon,traits,gear)
*room 2 cleared…

STOP, i need to change everthing again…

by the 3:d stop.. you get kicked from the group.

Now, i could probably do all this in a dungeon.
(but it whould be stupid, and tiresome).

And in a pvp surronding. Your enemy is there to kill you.
You dont go boxing rounds, so you can not change gear mid fight because its going down wards.. you cant even change weapon.

Engineers have this working ALOT better with kits.
i can jump in and out of flamethrower for close range.. and elixir for long – close. and i can also turn them off for rifle or P/P or P/S… IN combat i can react and adapt.

Elementals are just fecked from start.
As i have said before… The class looks and sounds super awesome on paper,
But in game… its awhole other story.

This class is obviously badly implemented.

There are a ton of ideas on this forum, and hopefully also A-net have a few.
If they can fix it… lets look at the upcoming patch and see whats happpening.

eldain stenlund.4306:

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

I am a lvl 80 elementalist and I got all weapons and gear. Basically you need to prepare for any type of battle you’re gonna expect. In some dungeon instances the scepter-focus is the best choice, in keep battles its the staff. For wvw roaming its D/D and for general PvE content the S/D would probably be the best choice.
As for the stats/gear you choose should depend on your teammates. I often go full support D/D with 1k healing power when I team up with a team of glass cannons and I gear to rampager with S/F for dungeons where we have attleast one support oriented ally already. In WvW when I want to burst people down quickly without any regards to my life I go S/D full berserker with arcana slot-skills.

Learn to play and adapt, think outside the box before you start bickering about whats in the box.

So, you are saying: i need to do this in a dungeon.. or pvp. or wvw.

“STOP, i need to change everything before we go into the next room,
I have my support stuff on me, i need my dps now…
*room 1 cleared…

STOP, i need to change everything again. i need to get my AoE kit.(weapon,traits,gear)
*room 2 cleared…

STOP, i need to change everthing again…

by the 3:d stop.. you get kicked from the group.

Now, i could probably do all this in a dungeon.
(but it whould be stupid, and tiresome).

And in a pvp surronding. Your enemy is there to kill you.
You dont go boxing rounds, so you can not change gear mid fight because its going down wards.. you cant even change weapon.

Engineers have this working ALOT better with kits.
i can jump in and out of flamethrower for close range.. and elixir for long – close. and i can also turn them off for rifle or P/P or P/S… IN combat i can react and adapt.

Elementals are just fecked from start.
As i have said before… The class looks and sounds super awesome on paper,
But in game… its awhole other story.

This class is obviously badly implemented.

There are a ton of ideas on this forum, and hopefully also A-net have a few.
If they can fix it… lets look at the upcoming patch and see whats happpening.

no what he’s saying is L2P. You’re exaggerating the effort it takes to switch weapons.

Numlock>H>double-click desired weapon – takes like 2 seconds.

If it would be easier i can just sit back and watch while you hate hate hate away at a class that you obviously don’t like playing.

eldain stenlund.4306:

<snip>

Or they could give us templates to make save/load builds quick and easy.

The only choice you must make before engaging in combat, because once you start you can’t swap, is choosing the proper range, which is something the Ele is lacking compared to all other professions.

FlamingFoxx.1305:

They almost need to allow Ele’s to set which weapon they want for which attunement, so if you went into Fire you would have your staff, but switching attunement into water would swap you into dagger (just as an example). Obviously that complicates things a lot, but at least you have access to some range diversity that way. (and a whole slew of balance issues concerning weapon combos, but oh well xD)

While the weapon swapping of other classes would likely make an Ele way too OP, I very much like this idea. I would love to see something of this nature come about. Attunement swapping counts as a weapon swap as far as sigils go anyway…may as well go this extra step

In the beta i went all dagger dagger or dagger and wand because staff was just too cliche.

Not long after launch tho i found that staff was simply the best. So much control over the battle and so much damage while keeping at range, especially in wvw.

I quit in september after getting all the best gear i could for my ele and am just coming back now.. i donno wth they did to staff eles but i feel very.. nerfed.

xbaunx

We’re asking Ele’s to gather all weapon sets, master 60 skills, learn 60 cooldown timings, master 3 play styles, 3 types of range (and maneuverability best suited for each range), and develop a trait scheme that lends itself a little bit to all 3 play styles but commits to none. Ele must do this just to be on par with the other classes

You’re overestimating other classes. They too have weapon specific traits that leads to certain build. A ranger specializing in longbows is less effective when he swaps to a greatsword compared to a a ranger specialized in greatswords, and vice versa.

eldain stenlund

This class is obviously badly implemented.

Not really. However, it’s often misunderstood, especially by newer players.

Haven’t read through all the posts in the thread but wanted to put in my experience.

I have two level 80 eles so that I can play both my D/D and Staff eles without messing around with respeccing, gear swapping, or any of that. I use both primarily for WvW (although I also spvp on the d/d). Between the two, my staff ele is far superior in its contribution to WvW than my d/d. Sure it’s fun being the near invincible, extremely mobile, 1v1 auto-win machine my d/d can be. Yeah I can solo camps and gank roamers (if their friends don’t show up) and run away whenever the fight goes south, but what do I really add to the actual objective based format of WvW? In a zerg I can draw fire away and play as a distraction to try help my team, but my actual damage is pretty pathetic. I can tag a fair number of enemies and still survive, but actually picking up my bags is a huge pain, and often ends up impossible if our zerg wipes or retreats. For tower defense I can work siege a little better than others (perma-aoe-regen in water attune) and if they don’t have a cata can aoe through the door or hop out, harass and come back through the gate, but that’s not particularly effective.

My (mostly) glass cannon ele on the other hand…Tower defense is excellent as you can stand on the edges without fear because of mist/vapor form. If that’s too risky you can drop fire aoes on the back side of the gate to hit everyone there. A well placed Magnetic Aura can work wonders as well. Attacking a tower you can provide a ton of utility. Meteor Shower with the right traits can hit those AC that are “too far back to hit” and you have a number of heals to drop on the gate for people operating rams. The aoe aspect of all fire attacks means you can stop enemies on siege well before killing it. A single ele can lock down a cannon against even the hardest bunker in just 3 skills. Finally, in backlining a zerg can be the most effective of all. Sure, most people will try to evade back out of your aoes, but with auto-attacks that can easily do 3k+ damage (and another 600 from the blast, and even more possible from my fire sigil) there’s no way for enemies to really avoid much of my damage. Drop those aoes to force groups to scatter. You tag so many enemies that you nearly instantly rally on those (unfortunately common) chances you’re downed.

If anything, I’d argue glass cannon staff eles might be a bit overpowered. Sure, there’s strong counters for you (like the build my mesmer runs) but I’m putting up ridiculous damage numbers (as aoe on my auto attacks!) even though I have 3 or 4 pieces of PVT gear and often forget food/nourishment.

I think the issue is two-fold: people compare staff ele to d/d ele (which is more or less consensus OP), and people expect staff ele to work in their playstyle (rather than adapting their play to ele). You’re not going to do well in 1v1 as a staff ele. That’s just how things are. You will need a group for a lot of content. But I’ll take my staff ele over my d/d 9 times out of 10 in dungeons, fractals, or zerg play in wvw.