Guild Wars 2

Dog.1472:

As it has already been said, an Ele has some of the best condition removal and will not be affected by immobilize unless they aren’t paying attention. Now, even if you presume to be able to counter an ability that has no cast time by catching them off guard and predicting them, what happens then if an Ele decided to pop arcane shield before even switching to wind? Are you saying that now you are going to throw immobilize at an Ele who is in earth because you suspect they are going to run? Even if you did that, the Ele now has enough time to cure any condition as well.

The combination of the Ele’s mobility and healing make them the clear top class in PvP. A class that has mobility and nothing else will be an incredibly unforgiving class that has no room for mistakes. A class that has healing will be able to make a mistake while still staying in the fight. You say an Ele needs mobility to counter the big hits it takes, I say it needs healing to counter it, not mobility. Whichever it may be, one of them needs to be toned down.

You know what’s sad is that after all these post I realize you get it but you are not listening at all. Only bunker ele have that level of condition removal. Even my own kittening build only has the one where you attune to water and EA (but that wont help with immobilize) that’s it.

Not everyone one runs 30 points in water do you get it? We all know healing need to be toned down in SPvP (WvW doesn’t count because of how imbalanced it is already).

So to spell this out simple. You nerf mobility you nerf every glass cannon, balanced build, etc. all at the same time. You nerf cleansing and healing you nerf bunker primarily. Do you understand? RtL is not the issue. But it doesn’t matter they wont hit mobility again as it will just cause people to leave the class or more even more bunker builds to emerge.

Edit:

Sigh

How many times do you need to be told skills are balanced? You mention arcane shield. The stats 75 second CD block 3 attacks. if you compare it to other skills that block its not all that great. "Shelter""http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shelter is superior but gear Shield is best.

If we are talking with mobility (this is why you need to play all mobile classes for high mobility and escapes before you comment) “Shield Stance”http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shield_Stance would be king. Block all attacks for 3 seconds 30 second cd pair this with sword + GS and its your escape plan in zerg. Best of all its a weapon skill so you don’t have to waist a utility slot,

Please before you mention random skills do the research and play the classes.

It’s interesting that you still fail to understand despite you seeming to consider yourself such an enlightened individual. You keep mentioning the great mobility that a warrior has and it’s funny, because the warrior is widely considered to be the most underpowered class in PvP. You see what happens when all you have is mobility and nothing else?

Dog.1472:

It’s interesting that you still fail to understand despite you seeming to consider yourself such an enlightened individual. You keep mentioning the great mobility that a warrior has and it’s funny, because the warrior is widely considered to be the most underpowered class in PvP. You see what happens when all you have is mobility and nothing else?

Sigh..

Like I said you need to do your research and we have already discussed this. And the funny thing is that it still comes down to healing not mobility.

Do you play warrior? I don’t mean do you have 80 warrior I mean do you play warrior in Spvp and WvW?

In Spvp the main issue with warrior comes down to landing burst and dealing with incoming conditions. Despite having a relatively high EHP warriors suffer from an issue of not being able to remove conditions regularly. The other issue is base hp is high and that’s all fine and dandy but passive healing on the warrior is on the weak side. When you add that together all that’s left is a class with weak passive healing, burst that’s hard to land, and a class nearly forced to eat all conditions.

So, lets say a warrior want to bunker. Well we can’t because of 2 things. Weak/No access to defensive boons (protection, Regeneration, etc) and weak passive healing and no passive condition removal. Further more our denial skills suck. ele and guardian have lots of skills that let them hold points (tourney play) while they call for backup. Mesmer has fantastic group utility and can be nearly impossible to pin down. Necro and engi can deny well and CC in aoe to a great extent. Ranger can go trap and CC/bleed you to death or go BM bunker and bleed you to death with the pet.

Warriors are gray in a world full of rainbows.

The other issue is that warrior are predictable. Moves are telegraphed and skills like shield bash and bull’s charge can be missed due to patching issue because they don’t corner well.

So in Spvp when you want a roamer ele or thief will do it better once they get to the location. Ele, necro, guardian and engineer are better bunker. Mesmer brings so much to the team and ranger can bunker or CC/Condition apply well.

In WvW warriors are fine. You can get an EHP around 50k and skirmish zerg v zerg. For great justice is one of the best group buffs out there and you have plenty of weapons that you can land in the chaos of a zerg to CC/root/down etc. them.

As a solo roamer you can be fast enough to out run most and if you get to water you will outrun everyone save another warrior.

It should be noted that we have the some of the best defensive utilities from jumping into the middle of zerg doing DPS and then getting out.

I have to point this out to you. You said, “You see what happens when all you have is mobility and nothing else?” and you also said, “Whichever it may be, one of them needs to be toned down.” So if mobility doesn’t do all that much for survival in your opinion why would it need to be nerfed? In the first place wouldn’t the real culprit be healing? Now if you check my post here or in spvp that’s what I have been saying all along so…….

If you go deeper into this issue HB while being a hard hitter just doesn’t compare to flurry and pistol whip because it doesn’t stun and had no evade attached to it. The cast is insanely long and without quickness many find it had to land.

I am a 0 0 30 30 10 warrior. So many of these issue don’t affect me the same way. If you would like to discuss warrior meta, builds, or difficulty head to that forum instead. Its inappropriate to discuss it all here, but as you can see there is lots to talk about and that community is very helpful.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/The-main-spvp-questions/page/2

Again, you speak as if you are the epitome of understating and yet you can’t even understand the simple point that it is mobility combined with healing that is the problem. Warrior has mobility, not healing, and look where they are.

You failed to make a point.

Dog.1472:

Again, you speak as if you are the epitome of understating and yet you can’t even understand the simple point that it is mobility combined with healing that is the problem. Warrior has mobility, not healing, and look where they are.

You failed to make a point.

Warrior has way more base damage, base HP and base armor..on top of equal if not superior mobility, along with more gap closers.
But feel free to post a video of an ele wearing a soldier/valkyrie amulet and “heal” himself to full HP every 2s.

Dog.1472:

Again, you speak as if you are the epitome of understating and yet you can’t even understand the simple point that it is mobility combined with healing that is the problem. Warrior has mobility, not healing, and look where they are.

You failed to make a point.

Excellent.

If mobility + healing is the problem.

And you are aware that nerfing mobility affects all builds, while nerfing healing affects most notably the overpowered build.

Please tell me why would you nerf mobility, out of all things?

Dog.1472:

Again, you speak as if you are the epitome of understating and yet you can’t even understand the simple point that it is mobility combined with healing that is the problem. Warrior has mobility, not healing, and look where they are.

You failed to make a point.

Do you even read?

“I have to point this out to you. You said, “You see what happens when all you have is mobility and nothing else?” and you also said, “Whichever it may be, one of them needs to be toned down.” So if mobility doesn’t do all that much for survival in your opinion why would it need to be nerfed? In the first place wouldn’t the real culprit be healing? Now if you check my post here or in spvp that’s what I have been saying all along so…….”

Long story short, after wasting my time with this ridiculousness; you came to the same conclusion as everyone who already figured it out. You nerf healing. What a revelation considering we said that months ago.

Dude I don’t get it. We literally say nerf healing leave mobility alone. What is the problem?

You have been posting for nearly a week and have already admitted that healing is the problem and not mobility. Why not let the rtl issue go? You have already conceded to the main counter argument. What’s the point of rehashing this over and over?

And your right I do know a lot but how is that a bad thing? Just because I take the time to read and learn does that mean there is something wrong? When did I say I was the “epitome of understanding”? IMHO my knowledge on this game is basic and that many are just too stubborn to read and accept facts.

This isn’t Harrison Bergeron and understanding the situation better than someone else is not a crime.

We have been going over this ad nauseam. So, now I am done with this. My bits been said you can have the last word, but I don’t need to convince you of anything. The facts are there and anyone who has the sense to read them can.

“The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.”
Winston Churchill

Why don’t I put it another way, the number one reason the Ele is considered OP to so many is because of their ability to control or neutralize a point in PvP with no risk. Their healing allows them to keep themselves alive, and their mobility allows them to leave, without dying. Even if the entire opposing team finds the Ele alone, they will not be able to kill them. This effectively allows a single Ele to prevent the opposing team from gaining any points for a period of time.

Without the ability to use RtL as an escape option, the Ele would eventually die if they are found alone, and that is exactly what should happen. This is why only the Ele bunker is considered OP and why the Ele bunker is the one that does this so well.

Making a slight adjustment to RtL will balance the class. Nerfing the healing down will destroy it. An Ele needs healing to compensate for it’s low defense. You are very wrong about why the Ele is in the position it is.

Edit: You also need to stop taking my posts out of context to fill your ego.

Dog.1472:

Why don’t I put it another way, the number one reason the Ele is considered OP to so many is because of their ability to control or neutralize a point in PvP with no risk. Their healing allows them to keep themselves alive, and their mobility allows them to leave, without dying. Even if the entire opposing team finds the Ele alone, they will not be able to kill them. This effectively allows a single Ele to prevent the opposing team from gaining any points for a period of time.

Without the ability to use RtL as an escape option, the Ele would eventually die if they are found alone, and that is exactly what should happen. This is why only the Ele bunker is considered OP and why the Ele bunker is the one that does this so well.

Making a slight adjustment to RtL will balance the class. Nerfing the healing down will destroy it. An Ele needs healing to compensate for it’s low defense. You are very wrong about why the Ele is in the position it is.

Let’s have ride the lightning be affected by chill/cripple which would reduce the travelling distance, would that suffice?

I like the suggestion, but I don’t think it would help because of the condition removal that an Ele has. On top of that, if swiftness positively affected the Ele’s movement abilities, it would only end up buffing them in the end.

Well if a bunker trying to run away, it must means that he must have already used all his resources but as the moment RTL is not affect by chill/cripple he would still be able to run off even though he’s loaded with conditions.
Assuming he has used all his resources with RTL affect by chill/cripple, the bunker won’t be able to go far and you’ll be able to finish him off

Why not just nerf cleansing water / soothing disruption? that would be enough.

Add a 5s cooldown to cleansing water, and remove vigor from soothing disruption.

Razor.6392:

Why not just nerf cleansing water / soothing disruption? that would be enough.

Add a 5s cooldown to cleansing water, and remove vigor from soothing disruption.

What would you give to soothing disruption instead than vigor? 2s retaliation? 3s chill on nearby foes?8s cripple?

Plus I don’t agree on cleansing water nerf( useless anyway because attunement CD is 9-10s) because I feel it must be always worth to go for a grandmaster trait no matter how powerful it is, you could add a 20s internal CD on it, so that people would still benefit from it but it’ll only be available every 2 times you switch to water, this would open a window for the opponent

Arheundel.6451:

Razor.6392:

Why not just nerf cleansing water / soothing disruption? that would be enough.

Add a 5s cooldown to cleansing water, and remove vigor from soothing disruption.

What would you give to soothing disruption instead than vigor? 2s retaliation? 3s chill on nearby foes?8s cripple?

Plus I don’t agree on cleansing water nerf( useless anyway because attunement CD is 9-10s) because I feel it must be always worth to go for a grandmaster trait no matter how powerful it is, you could add a 20s internal CD on it, so that people would still benefit from it but it’ll only be available every 2 times you switch to water, this would open a window for the opponent

Remove a condition when you get regen.

Coupled with soothing disruption, you get regen on demand for each of your cantrips, and if you use the glyph (rare, but still) then there’s yet another access to a condi removal (correct me if I’m wrong, I never used that build).

I suggested before to replace vigor gain (soothing disruption) for 25% energy refill, but everyone labeled my ideas as trash lol.

Anyway, once those traits are nerfed, anet could buff the fire trait line, the air grandmaster traits, and even ele’s base stats, among other things.

Razor.6392:

Arheundel.6451:

Razor.6392:

Why not just nerf cleansing water / soothing disruption? that would be enough.

Add a 5s cooldown to cleansing water, and remove vigor from soothing disruption.

What would you give to soothing disruption instead than vigor? 2s retaliation? 3s chill on nearby foes?8s cripple?

Plus I don’t agree on cleansing water nerf( useless anyway because attunement CD is 9-10s) because I feel it must be always worth to go for a grandmaster trait no matter how powerful it is, you could add a 20s internal CD on it, so that people would still benefit from it but it’ll only be available every 2 times you switch to water, this would open a window for the opponent

Remove a condition when you get regen.

Coupled with soothing disruption, you get regen on demand for each of your cantrips, and if you use the glyph (rare, but still) then there’s yet another access to a condi removal (correct me if I’m wrong, I never used that build).

I suggested before to replace vigor gain (soothing disruption) for 25% energy refill, but everyone labeled my ideas as trash lol.

Anyway, once those traits are nerfed, anet could buff the fire trait line, the air grandmaster traits, and even ele’s base stats, among other things.

Maybe we should wait for the boon-hate mechanics before ask for additional nerfs on ele, if my assumptions are correct, bunker eles have a harsh feature ahead of them, while having RTL being affected by chill/snare would be enough to stop less skilled eles from jumping into the fray before thinking

If you’re going to make our one mobility skill require a target, then ALL mobility skills of all classes should require targets. And while youre at it, buff our healing, defense and hp. Cuz without being able to disengage, we will die just sitting in the middle of a fight unlike other classes that can take a few hits. Also remove all stealths so then thieves and mesmers cant disengage from battle since you’re too unskilled to catch an opponent who’s escaping. So lets make it easy for you. Because I personally have no problem catching an killing a bunker ele no matter what class i’m playing as. It’s easiest on warrior. I’d even go so far as saying warrior has better mobility than ele. If you need further proof that RTL doesnt need to be touched, just look at staff ele. Even if they go bunker spec, everyone still considers them a free kill because of their crappy mobility. They will not get away from you, EVER. Unless you’re a terribly incompetent player. And they drop easily.