Guild Wars 2

I would like to hear your view on these changes proposed for the Tempest.
Please take the time to read through them and to post a reply.

OVERLOADS:
Remove the casttime/channeltime.
Make each overload into a spell that is active around you
or a form
that lasts for ~4 sec (as long as the casttimechanneltime currently is).
This way you can dodge while its active.

Make the stability pulse every second.

It still locks you out of your spells as it currently does.

Reduce the waittime and the cooldowns of the overloads:
I would say 2 to 3 sec waittime and 12-14 sec cooldown max.

FIRE:
Increase the fire overload radius from 180 to 360.
Make the tornado around you destroy projectiles.

EARTH:
In addition, while overloading earth will make you gain Obsidean flesh (the earth focus #5 ability).

LIGHTNING:
In addition, when you start the overload you will gain shocking aura.

WATER:
This overload just doesnt work for its purpose.
You cannot wait 5 seconds till the overload is ready, so that you can cleanse conditions.

Conditions need to be cleansed the moment they are applied.
You cannot predict that conditions need cleansing right after 5 seconds,
unless a scenario is scripted.
You cannot set camp in water attunement after the 5 seconds waittime, till conditions need cleansing. You cant keep waiting in there.

So either this overload needs to be instant/1 second waittime, or the condition cleansing needs to be put somewhere else in the tempest play.
On other water spells/utility through a trait for example.

The tempest Elite Rebound spell:
The heal needs to be a lot larger, otherwise you basically die on the hit you take after rebound.

The Tempest utility spells:
Reduce their cooldowns to a more fair number.
They are to long atm.

VIEWS:
I am very interested in your views elementalist community.
Please share your views on this post.
If you have improvements to these ideas, you can throw them in too.

I agree with the overall theme of your post, ie that the Tempest is fundamentally flawed and needs a significant overhaul before release.

Do we expect Karl to do anything but tune numbers at this point? Absolutely not. I predict that he’ll improve some of the cooldowns and damage values, move a few traits around, but the flaws will remain untouched.

It’s a shame that someone more experienced with the Elementalist class was not in charge of its Elite Specialization. He’s not a bad developer, he just doesn’t understand the subtleties of the class particularly well, as demonstrated by past comments he’s made on Twitch, various design decisions with the Tempest, and lack of certain minimum experience metrics in-game.

sicsempertyrannis.3510:

I agree with the overall theme of your post, ie that the Tempest is fundamentally flawed and needs a significant overhaul before release.

Do we expect Karl to do anything but tune numbers at this point? Absolutely not. I predict that he’ll improve some of the cooldowns and damage values, move a few traits around, but the flaws will remain untouched.

It’s a shame that someone more experienced with the Elementalist class was not in charge of its Elite Specialization. He’s not a bad developer, he just doesn’t understand the subtleties of the class particularly well, as demonstrated by past comments he’s made on Twitch, various design decisions with the Tempest, and lack of certain minimum experience metrics in-game.

Well based on what hes posted on the thief forums so far about Daredevil, I expect that he’ll focus on buffing/reworking traits primarily, plus we already know that he knows to buff/rework earthen proxy and latent stamina. Really the minor traits and the middle line of the tempest traitline are the only things that need significant fixing. The warhorn is fine besides lightning orb and cooldowns, and I’ve come to terms with the strenghts and weaknesses of the overloads.

The air and earth overloads are in an amazing place for what they do, and I’m perfectly happy with them. Fire was nerfed for being too strong last time, and water is flawed since it got its cast time normalized with the others. You can use them as stunbreaks now, which gives them much more utility and purpose than they originally had. You can make a water/arcane/tempest build with d/d and cantrips and play it exactly the same, except you’ll either have much more sustain from auraheals, much more boon duration/protection from warhorn if you take that+imbued melodies, a possible 10% damage modifier to compensate for losing fire, earthen proxy, and best of all, situational extra stunbreaks that can do a lot of damage or a lot of support, and I think I’d be happy with that.

If they just remedy the traitline, tempest will fall into place.

Karl might do more than just tune numbers at this point.
As you can see in the quote below.

I would say my post falls within small doable changes category, because all my changes are mechanics that already exists in the game and number tuning.

-Fire overload radius increase is tuning numbers.
-Projectile reflect/destroy on fire overload is a mechanic that exists already in the game.
-The shocking aura on lightning exists as well.
-The Obsidean flesh for earth as well.
-Water overload is more number tuning.
-The cooldown and waittime for overloads is number tuning.
-Same for the elite Rebound and the tempest utility spells.

-Changing overloads to a spell with a duration or a form, rather than a casttime/channel is not something new either. Such mechanics (spell with duration/form) already exist in the game.
The stability pulse is number tuning as well.

Karl McLain.5604:

Bam!
Thanks everyone in advance for your constructive feedback. Please keep in mind that we’re getting close to day zero and that the smaller the change, the more likely we’ll be able to discuss and action that feedback. This isn’t the end, however. We’ll continue to make changes, when necessary, after HoT releases, as well.

Thanks!
-Karl

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/BW3-Feedback-Thread/first

I agree with fire tornado destroying projectile.

We don’t have a projectile reflect/destroy mechanic other than focus right now, and since we always camp staff it would be beneficial to give us projectile destruction. That is one thing we cannot do at the moment.

The great thing about Overload Fire is also the ability to stack might in the middle of the fight, useful if we don’t have a PS warrior.

Also, if we are gonna be auramancer, I wish they would give us some trait that improves on the efficiency of auras. Right now they just feel weak, especially fire auras and frost aura.

And overloads should give their aura at the start of the channel.

Yashuoa.9527:

Karl might do more than just tune numbers at this point.

snip

I highly doubt this is true. Eles have been stressing some of the MAJOR design flaws behind tempest since the start, and very little has changed EXCEPT numbers. They squandered an excellent opportunity to actually modify some of the core functionality (such as by modifying the absurd overload costs, implementing new mechanics to enable slower swap-rates, promoting different roles rather than variations on the same role, and instead focused on tweaking numbers to see if it could be made decent enough that it wouldn’t be a complete and immediate failure on the usage rate statistics on which they base their balancing (skills are only modified when numerical metrics show they are used way too much or never, ignoring the underlying reasons for such issues).

The design of tempest at this point reminds me of that old show “Pimp my Ride” where they take some POS car and put a bunch of TV’s, leather seats, awesome paint job, etc. on it. You can put as many bells and whistles onto the spec as you want, but at the end of the day you are stuck with a shiny piece of metal with POS internals.

So, because they did nothing but make easy changes (slap on extra boons/effects is fairly easy), and past balancing has been highlighted by their utter inability to make a working ele build that isn’t either useless or borderline-OP bruiser, I highly doubt they will make the changes that need to be made.

The tempest you have seen is basically the tempest you are going to get. Only when nobody plays it for ~1 year will they think about buffing it, and since it is ele it will probably get the shatterstone treatment (add 1 stack of vuln onto a skill that is fundamentally flawed).

It cannot be saved. I predict that after some unspecified time period, maybe even a year, tempest will still see the low popularity numbers and Karl will overbuff its numbers. And the pendulum of ele balance will swing again.

rotten.9753:

It cannot be saved. I predict that after some unspecified time period, maybe even a year, tempest will still see the low popularity numbers and Karl will overbuff its numbers. And the pendulum of ele balance will swing again.

More likely they just let all the tempest skills rot on the ever-increasing pile of useless skills along with all the conjures, most the glyphs, half the signets, most of the elites, half the arcanes, and a good 30% of the traits (that are basically empty slots).

rotten.9753:

It cannot be saved. I predict that after some unspecified time period, maybe even a year, tempest will still see the low popularity numbers and Karl will overbuff its numbers. And the pendulum of ele balance will swing again.

This actually makes me sad and I really hope it’s not going to happen. It already seems ele will have a difficult time to find a spot in raids and god knows what’s gonna happen in pvp.

I’m still hoping some miracle will happen and Karl will make it viable somehow, but I’m afriad you’re actually right.

Yashuoa.9527:

I would like to hear your view on these changes proposed for the Tempest.
Please take the time to read through them and to post a reply.

OVERLOADS:
Remove the casttime/channeltime.
Make each overload into a spell that is active around you
or a form
that lasts for ~4 sec (as long as the casttimechanneltime currently is).
This way you can dodge while its active.

Make the stability pulse every second.

It still locks you out of your spells as it currently does.

Reduce the waittime and the cooldowns of the overloads:
I would say 2 to 3 sec waittime and 12-14 sec cooldown max.

FIRE:
Increase the fire overload radius from 180 to 360.
Make the tornado around you destroy projectiles.

EARTH:
In addition, while overloading earth will make you gain Obsidean flesh (the earth focus #5 ability).

LIGHTNING:
In addition, when you start the overload you will gain shocking aura.

WATER:
This overload just doesnt work for its purpose.
You cannot wait 5 seconds till the overload is ready, so that you can cleanse conditions.

Conditions need to be cleansed the moment they are applied.
You cannot predict that conditions need cleansing right after 5 seconds,
unless a scenario is scripted.
You cannot set camp in water attunement after the 5 seconds waittime, till conditions need cleansing. You cant keep waiting in there.

So either this overload needs to be instant/1 second waittime, or the condition cleansing needs to be put somewhere else in the tempest play.
On other water spells/utility through a trait for example.

The tempest Elite Rebound spell:
The heal needs to be a lot larger, otherwise you basically die on the hit you take after rebound.

The Tempest utility spells:
Reduce their cooldowns to a more fair number.
They are to long atm.

VIEWS:
I am very interested in your views elementalist community.
Please share your views on this post.
If you have improvements to these ideas, you can throw them in too.

Overload need a cast/channel time to maintain the risk/reward ratio; the original concept of the ele expected the player to attune to each element when required therefore kitten window is totally legit.

The only thing I know needs improvements is the water overload, your other suggestions are a big NO, they would make tempest far too OP, especially the overload turned into a form….

-Fire overload applies might/burning and does the most damage..now you ask to increase its radius too…you require good positioning for this one, EX. an enemy group ress attempt, on a point ( save graveyard) etct etc

-Earth overload..you want obsidian flesh?…Are you serious?

-Air overload..you want shocking aura?…C’mon guys…

I do believe that rebound heal should be at least 2k more max, the shouts CD is fine, but the freeze one need at least 5s chill, that would be all

Considering our elites history, I wouldn’t set my hopes too high for our elite spec.

Well i was tinking not to answer because the suggestions just cry for OP´ness.

The overloads are in a good shape now exept water and water suffers most from ele game mechanics and i can live with it being not usable in PvP.

Air overload: Good use at start of a fight. Especially strong with fresh air.
Fire: Very situational. Strong in packed fights if you are eiter unatended or have some guard.
Earth: strong tactical overlaod and support mid or end of a fight.
Water: Poor due to 5s wait and lockout. I see it only useful if you go for healing support mostly camping water. You won´t start a fight with like you can benefit from air.

I wish it was a different mechanic, not a conflicting one, but you know my point. I think it would be in an ok spot if some traits were merged and made minor baseline and adding traits that would help core ele besides overload.

OVERLOADS:

Make it so you can dodge while its active.

Make the stability pulse every second= Seriously OP.

Maybe make gaining an aura mandatory on overloading, this way Unstable Conduit can be made into a aura enhanced trait, maybe increasing aura’s for 2 seconds?

It still locks you out of your spells as it currently does: True but it is a attunement overload so extra powerfull u get a lot from it.

Reduce the waittime and the cooldowns of the overloads:
I would say 2 to 3 sec waittime and 12-14 sec cooldown max: Agree

FIRE:

Make the tornado around you destroy projectiles.

EARTH:
In addition, while overloading earth will make you gain Obsidean flesh (the earth focus #5 ability): No, too OP.

LIGHTNING:
In addition, when you start the overload you will gain shocking aura= Think this will be too OP, specially with fresh air builds.

WATER:
This overload just doesnt work for its purpose.
You cannot wait 5 seconds till the overload is ready, so that you can cleanse conditions.

Conditions need to be cleansed the moment they are applied.
You cannot predict that conditions need cleansing right after 5 seconds,
unless a scenario is scripted.
You cannot set camp in water attunement after the 5 seconds waittime, till conditions need cleansing. You cant keep waiting in there.

So either this overload needs to be instant/1 second waittime, or the condition cleansing needs to be put somewhere else in the tempest play.
On other water spells/utility through a trait for example.

I agree on most of the above, condition clearing is lackluster on tempest specially without water. On the other hand, u remove 4 conditions with the attunement, where other classes have to use utility slots for that.

The tempest Elite Rebound spell:
The heal needs to be a lot larger, otherwise you basically die on the hit you take after rebound.
Aye, it is an elite spell, it should have that Oomph that u expect. Maybe make it so that Rebound gives 100 endurance at the end as well…so u have more dodges to get out of trouble…

Those are my 2 cents, hope the dev picks it up.

I believe Tempest will be the elite spec that will need most balances after HoT. This is far, faaaar from the end.

Valento.9852:

I believe Tempest will be the elite spec that will need most balances after HoT. This is far, faaaar from the end.

Irenio micdrop after massive Tempest buffs when?

Ganathar.4956:

Valento.9852:

I believe Tempest will be the elite spec that will need most balances after HoT. This is far, faaaar from the end.

Irenio micdrop after massive Tempest buffs when?

This is a complete different situation. It doesn’t revolve around numbers, which was the case with D/D cele and Ice Bow.

Valento.9852:

Ganathar.4956:

Valento.9852:

I believe Tempest will be the elite spec that will need most balances after HoT. This is far, faaaar from the end.

Irenio micdrop after massive Tempest buffs when?

This is a complete different situation. It doesn’t revolve around numbers, which was the case with D/D cele and Ice Bow.

I know that, but a micdrop doesn’t need numbers! Buffs don’t just mean numbers.

Ganathar.4956:

Valento.9852:

Ganathar.4956:

Valento.9852:

I believe Tempest will be the elite spec that will need most balances after HoT. This is far, faaaar from the end.

Irenio micdrop after massive Tempest buffs when?

This is a complete different situation. It doesn’t revolve around numbers, which was the case with D/D cele and Ice Bow.

I know that, but a micdrop doesn’t need numbers! Buffs don’t just mean numbers.

You simply can’t nerf something that isn’t functional yet, this is non sense.

Valento.9852:

Ganathar.4956:

Valento.9852:

Ganathar.4956:

Valento.9852:

I believe Tempest will be the elite spec that will need most balances after HoT. This is far, faaaar from the end.

Irenio micdrop after massive Tempest buffs when?

This is a complete different situation. It doesn’t revolve around numbers, which was the case with D/D cele and Ice Bow.

I know that, but a micdrop doesn’t need numbers! Buffs don’t just mean numbers.

You simply can’t nerf something that isn’t functional yet, this is non sense.

That’s not what I meant… I meant that he would do the micdrop while presenting the buffs in 3 years time.

Ganathar.4956:

That’s not what I meant… I meant that he would do the micdrop while presenting the buffs in 3 years time.

Can’t argue with that, his micdrop is powerful and hilarious, though. xD