Guild Wars 2

I play scepter/dagger because I want ranged capability while retaining effectiveness in 1v1s (the ranged-melee hybrid aspect is nice, too). Thing is, the scepter attacks that actually hit at range don’t do much damage, so I gear offensively. (The SPvP variant of Berserker’s for the purposes of this thread.)

Anyway, the reason I’m making this thread is that my experiences as a glass s/d ele don’t seem to match up with that of the community – that is to say, I actually do okay. I die pretty much instantly to enemies that cooridinate CC, of course, but in 1v1s I perform just fine (not so much against bunker rangers, but I think that’s a common difficulty).

TL;DR: Does going glass as an ele work in duels, or are my opponents just bad?

Glass will only work in duels if your opponents are bad, or if you are willing to jump out of the fight everytime your safety nets are down(cantrips).

What you could do in a zerg is stay behind the lines and then just pick a weak looking target and burst ‘m down with arcana and stuff. I’ve got a zerker set-up too and even when I don’t trait completely towards it I still do very decent damage. I die in 4 hits but I tend to do 4 times more damage then when I use my cleric set-up.

Swimsasa Stoon.8936:

What you could do in a zerg is stay behind the lines and then just pick a weak looking target and burst ‘m down with arcana and stuff. I’ve got a zerker set-up too and even when I don’t trait completely towards it I still do very decent damage. I die in 4 hits but I tend to do 4 times more damage then when I use my cleric set-up.

I’m referring to a glass cannon (with 30 in water) as is possible in SPvP, where full Berserker’s grants me about 17.5k health with a 0/20/0/30/20 build. In WvW the stats can get pretty crazy, so in attempting to replicate my SPvP stats, I end up with around 1.4k armor and 15k health with exotic gear, with nearly identical offense.

ARM.3912:

Glass will only work in duels if your opponents are bad, or if you are willing to jump out of the fight everytime your safety nets are down(cantrips).

I suppose this is the sort of answer I asked for, though not the kind I was hoping for. Rather, I’d like to know why the following strategies don’t work:

…Yeah, I asked for other people’s opinions and now I’m sort of arguing them. Sorry, I just wasn’t clear in the OP.

I wouldn’t consider any build with 30 in water to be glass, especially in sPvP where enemy damage is lower than WvW and the amulets make you take some survival stats.

Is it possible to do ok with your build?
Sure.
Are you?
Then it is.
Are your opponents just “bad”?
Probably, or maybe, who knows, it’s pretty subjective. If you’re “good” then they are probably “bad”. ’Cause, there are a lot of people in the world, and some will be better at stuff and some worse.

tl;dr Your build isn’t “glass”, but yeah, you can do alright with it.

Thrashbarg.9820:

I wouldn’t consider any build with 30 in water to be glass, especially in sPvP where enemy damage is lower than WvW and the amulets make you take some survival stats.

Is it possible to do ok with your build?
Sure.
Are you?
Then it is.
Are your opponents just “bad”?
Probably, or maybe, who knows, it’s pretty subjective. If you’re “good” then they are probably “bad”. ’Cause, there are a lot of people in the world, and some will be better at stuff and some worse.

tl;dr Your build isn’t “glass”, but yeah, you can do alright with it.

Eh, I was defining the playstyle by gear, because ele builds are all so similar.

…But yeah, this subject is so subjective that this thread is kinda pointless.

You guys can ignore this, not really sure what I was thinking.

15k health and no toughness is simply not viable in my opinion outside of PvE. Any halfway decent player is going to down you in seconds.

In duels as a glass cannon ele build you HAVE to land your burst/opener/put up big numbers fast. If you don’t immediately put the other player on their back foot then you’re in for a bad time. You want them to be so busy wondering how to manage all your damage that they have no time to play too offensively. Even as glass, running a signet heal gives us a decent amount of maintain, enough that when coupled with water attunement we can pull through the dps they put up, if they’re on the back foot.

If you’re at perfect range for a burning speed initiate, but then waste it into a well timed immob, you’re done. You lost an initiating skill, and now if you switch attunements for another gap closer your fire attunement is on cd.

Stronger players will be better at fending off your burst, and that’s what’ll decide the fight.

Bunker rangers are just a sore point.

in my opinion the best is trying to mix, for example fire traits and earth traits mix very well … so with something like 20 fire and 20 in earth u can create a build that give u good dps and good surv … The remaining 30 pt u can put as you feel for your play style

It can work against bad – mediocre opponents but here is the problem:

It is a really high risk (compared to most professions) and only mediocre reward. This is because of 3 reasons:

• Low survivability because you have the lowest HP and armor and only your mobility/dodge and cantrips as defense. If you don’t dodge properly or use your cantrips fast enough you are dead.

• The high damage skills are on a very long CD and/or are pretty difficult to hit. It’s not like a thief or mesmer who can burst you down and if it doesn’t work they just disengage and try again. If you miss your skills you are either dead or you have to use your cantrips and wait until your skills are off CD again.

• The air/fire/earth traits are really bad compared to water/arcana. They offer very little and have little to no synergy. It is simply not worth it to spend more than the last 10 points on any of those trait lines. (If you need further information feel free to read this guide: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Guide-Rating-Elementalist-traits/first)

Maybe this helps.

Muppet.6485:

You want them to be so busy wondering how to manage all your damage that they have no time to play too offensively.

Yeah this pretty much sums up your hopes of success when running GC. Hit them hard, and hope they freak out and run around like a noob until your finish them off instead of just two shotting you.

covenn.7165:

Muppet.6485:

You want them to be so busy wondering how to manage all your damage that they have no time to play too offensively.

Yeah this pretty much sums up your hopes of success when running GC. Hit them hard, and hope they freak out and run around like a noob until your finish them off instead of just two shotting you.

Fair enough, I have had plenty of pretty nasty matchups (d/d-staff ’Zerker necros, for one), and against other eles the best I can do is heal. However, the purpose of me building offensively is for ranged damage – got any suggestions for that?

I run full power/toughness/vitality gear and slot beryls in my accessories. I use the same for my daggers, but swap out a higher damage staff since the range adds survivability. I hit pretty much as hard as you can baseline with power, but I sacrifice some c/cd for a crap load more toughness and vitality compared to zerker gear. (With stacks, food, and auras I still have over 50% c/cd both) This means that I sustain my damage output longer and am immune to being brought down by another player’s burst. Overall, I will do more damage because I will not have to reset or heal up as often.

So compared to zerker gear, it might take an extra couple of abilities to drop someone. A sacrifice I make willingly because I will be alive and standing on my feet to drop damage into the next person after I kill the first. Dead people do 0 damage.

covenn.7165:

I run full power/toughness/vitality gear and slot beryls in my accessories. I use the same for my daggers, but swap out a higher damage staff since the range adds survivability. I hit pretty much as hard as you can baseline with power, but I sacrifice some c/cd for a crap load more toughness and vitality compared to zerker gear. (With stacks, food, and auras I still have over 50% c/cd both) This means that I sustain my damage output longer and am immune to being brought down by another player’s burst. Overall, I will do more damage because I will not have to reset or heal up as often.

So compared to zerker gear, it might take an extra couple of abilities to drop someone. A sacrifice I make willingly because I will be alive and standing on my feet to drop damage into the next person after I kill the first. Dead people do 0 damage.

Not quite what I meant – I have another set of gear that works quite well. Certainly better than the glassy stuff I’ve been going on about.
Because the staff doesn’t work well for 1v1s (I’ll probably be able to stay alive, but I’m not gonna kill anyone without help), the point of using Berserker gear was to make Arc Lightning and Lightning Strike deal enough damage to warrant staying at range. I know Phantaram uses Vital Striking and Scholar runes to boost the damage, but he has a team to prevent enemies from dealing the 1.4k damage to him that would negate the damage bonus.

I absolutely despise being restricted to melee range. (Although I like a hybrid of ranged and melee the most.)

Heh, I check the forums after not playing for a while and elementalists here are still as clueless as ever. I ran glass d/d in spvp and wvw and it is 100% viable. Saying it only works vs. bad players is incorrect. In fact, I would go so far as to say that if you think that, you are the one who is bad.

dreztina.4820:

Heh, I check the forums after not playing for a while and elementalists here are still as clueless as ever. I ran glass d/d in spvp and wvw and it is 100% viable. Saying it only works vs. bad players is incorrect. In fact, I would go so far as to say that if you think that, you are the one who is bad.

He didn’t say D/D, he said S/D. There is big difference that I would expect you to understand with all your… clues.

@Blackhat.4016 If u put 30 in arcana and 25,30 pt in water u loose dps . I love some traits as evasive arcana for example, but when i play in dung and in pve I feel i miss dps … and the same i feel in PVP … ok , i last more … but the scope of the game is to destroy your opponent… not to last.. .and if i do poor dmg i think i can not help my team very much . Earth and Fire are good for that imho

S/F 0/30/0/10/30
Stick to air, use 3 arcane utilities. Blind, Blind, Blind, Blind…

Elemental surge with arcane power?

dreztina.4820:

Heh, I check the forums after not playing for a while and elementalists here are still as clueless as ever. I ran glass d/d in spvp and wvw and it is 100% viable. Saying it only works vs. bad players is incorrect. In fact, I would go so far as to say that if you think that, you are the one who is bad.

Failing to see the weaknesses and drawbacks of a class and its specs or builds is just as bad as seeing nothing but the negatives; ideally the best balance is found in the middle.

dreztina.4820:

Heh, I check the forums after not playing for a while and elementalists here are still as clueless as ever. I ran glass d/d in spvp and wvw and it is 100% viable. Saying it only works vs. bad players is incorrect. In fact, I would go so far as to say that if you think that, you are the one who is bad.

Sorry dreztina, I have to disagree with you… though I suspect its due to your definition of ‘viable’ being different than mine. I don’t think anyone is suggesting that you can’t make it work. We all know you can burst noobs down extremely fast as a glass cannon d/d ele.

Whether you are solo, havocing, or zerging the simple fact that you are going to be fighting multiple opponents the vast majority of the time makes it a poor choice for numerous reasons. Over the length of a 5v5 fight, for example, against reasonably skilled opponents I will out damage any glass cannon ele every single time because they will be downed early and downed again immediately if someone gets them up. (I won’t even go on a rant about how getting killed screws your team over and how rallies can cost you fights on any scale….. )

For kittens sake, I can two/three shot a glass cannon ele myself and they can’t keep distance from me because I have the same tools …….

Chaosky.5276:

I’m referring to a glass cannon (with 30 in water) as is possible in SPvP, where full Berserker’s grants me about 17.5k health with a 0/20/0/30/20 build.

I would dispute whether this is “glass cannon.” It sounds like you’ve basically taken the standard Water/Arcana build and put a bit more damage into it. 30/30/x/x/x with full Berserkers would fit the definition of “glass cannon.”

With regards to your build as it stands, though, that’s pretty much what I’ve been running. I hate the heavily defensive D/D build (the mobility and troll power are fun but it’s boring hitting like a wet noodle) so go with S/D and a bit more damage spec, but still 30 in Water and 20 in Arcana because a) they’re simply the best trait lines by a wide margin and b) you do no damage if you’re dead. It’s a pretty solid spec, IMO. You get better choices between support, control, and DPS at any given time.

Up for consideration is the 0/25/0/15/30 build (With bolt to the heart, not air cooldown reduction). With valkyrie stuff. A more offensive minded variant of the valk setup that lets you keep your evasive arcana water rolls.

arcane blast/wave, mist form. Good candidate for ether renewal for the condition clearing.

I’ve been running zerker gear with the 0/10/0/30/30 build most of my GW2 Career and I’ve had no issue with it.

I’ve just had to be a lot more careful by what I get hit by and co-ordinate my healing and cooldowns but the trade-off is a great feeling when you pull off a 6-8k churning earth on those squishy squishy thieves.

Those builds are not “glass cannons”. Both are the standard Water/Arcana build (with slight variations) and different gear. “Glass cannon” means no points into water or earth (which are both more defensive trait lines) and pure damage which simply doesn’t work against better players with the current traits.

Blackhat.4016:

Those builds are not “glass cannons”. Both are the standard Water/Arcana build (with slight variations) and different gear. “Glass cannon” means no points into water or earth (which are both more defensive trait lines) and pure damage which simply doesn’t work against better players with the current traits.

This is certainly true. We can make modifications for more offensive minded traits within the confines of the needs of the profession, and gear with valkyrie and/or zerk gear but in the sense of going all out with offensive only traits, that just doesn’t work so well due to our lack of innate survivability outside of traits.

Of course, have to make do with what we have for now. Being able to run full glass with offensive utils and offensive only traits would require some sort of evasive/survivability mechanics built into the weapon sets themselves, such as thief dagger 5, mesmer MH sword 2, shatter distortion etc.

I ran Staff: 25/25/0/0/20 with zerk/valk (ruby/beryl) in WvW and it was glorious….. when I was alive. But I realized two things:
(1) requires others to keep me alive
(2) gives limited support to others
I realized how selfish I was to play that way in WvW when an Elementalist is a well-rounded class for providing simultaneous damage and support.

In large group settings, you don’t have to be the only person that is downing the enemy. You have many around you doing the same. But, when you provide support to those around you as well as assisting in downing the enemy, an Elementalist is almost unmatched. A few of us Staff Elementalist in my guild went to a 0/0/10/30/30 build with soldiers/cleric Altruism/Water/sapphires and all of a sudden our WvW presence is much more formidable. We are hard to kill and provide much support/cleansing/healing to our side and cc/AoE pressure to the enemy.

Minion of Vey.4398:

Up for consideration is the 0/25/0/15/30 build (With bolt to the heart, not air cooldown reduction). With valkyrie stuff. A more offensive minded variant of the valk setup that lets you keep your evasive arcana water rolls.

arcane blast/wave, mist form. Good candidate for ether renewal for the condition clearing.

0/25/0/15/30 is good, the rest of that is garbage.

Blackhat.4016:

Those builds are not “glass cannons”. Both are the standard Water/Arcana build (with slight variations) and different gear. “Glass cannon” means no points into water or earth (which are both more defensive trait lines) and pure damage which simply doesn’t work against better players with the current traits.

Well, builds without at least 20 in Water and Arcana don’t really work, as you said, but I guess I could call it “gearing for a lotta damage and becoming super squishy” if the technicalities are that great a concern.

Hybrid is the best.