Guild Wars 2

I’ve been having a lot more trouble against DD eles since EA nerf (I wonder how I’ll do now with EA kind of back). DD Ele is infinitely more mobile (and has higher burst damage) than Staff Ele and I find them hard to kill because it’s hard to hit them with AoE (Frost Armor helped with this with pre-nerf EA).

How do fellow Staff Eles go about killing DD eles? They’re faster, stronger, and their heals are better (especially since I don’t go 30 water, 30 arcane anymore).

1v1? I don’t know, but for casual spvp, if you know how and where to fight, staff is the easiest weapon to get credit for kills, because you’re hitting everyone. I usually don’t rely on Staff much for duels. :/

No one? I really need help with this guys. DD Ele is my worst enemy in PVP. I need to create distance as a Staff Ele but DD Ele is so mobile and shuts me down so easily. They cross the gap easily with magnetic grasp or RTL or just thru pure speed and dodges. It’s so hard to fight them. Especially since their DPS and heals are better. And DD Eles have better buffs. Their escapes are better.

kitten, it feels like all staff eles have is AOE damage that’s limited to 5 kittening people. Sigh. I should just do what all eles are doing and go DD… Even though I’ve been Staff since forever.

Staff is our group support weapon. Daggers are our kill things weapon.

I support my group with AoE damage mainly as I’m built for it and do decent damage to groups and can help tip the balance to my side. However I kind of accept that I’ll get butchered if I get caught alone. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve had a fair share of 1v1 wins with my staff, but it’s usually by the skin of my teeth.

Daggers on the other hand is our direct burst set. It excels with superior damage, mobility, and to be feels like a more complete weapon set. Staff, though I love it, feels like there are four separate attunements that don’t mesh all that well together while daggers seamlessly flow from one element to the other without any clunky pauses or awkward clicks. Though I think that’s more because I have to ground target every other attack with my staff while daggers generally do not.

Basically, don’t expect to 1v1 a D/D ele with a staff. You’re essentially fighting a more specialized soloist version of yourself no matter what build you’re using.

Bah, I hate being the support class. I don’t play Staff Ele like that and I enjoy my 1v1’s with other classes. I don’t want and I don’ think that Staff Ele should only work if it sits back 1200 range away raining meteor storm and lava fonts on crowds.

The only (well, maybe not only but primary) problem is DD Ele. They close the distance too well and constantly. Burning Speed. RTL. Magnetic Grasp. Lightning Flash (usually used with churning earth).So many ways to close distance.

I mean, It’d be ok if Staff was purely for support if we had weapon swap, but we can’t. It’s not cool in PVP that Staff is only capable of one role. It shouldn’t be that way. I’ve fared well in 1v1’s until DD Eles got popular and they wreck easily. I can’t control distance with DD Eles.

There has to be some way to deal with DD eles. I can’t be the only decent Staff Ele on the forums. Sure feels like it since EA nerf though…

SecondtoNone.7549:

Bah, I hate being the support class. I don’t play Staff Ele like that and I enjoy my 1v1’s with other classes. I don’t want and I don’ think that Staff Ele should only work if it sits back 1200 range away raining meteor storm and lava fonts on crowds.

The only (well, maybe not only but primary) problem is DD Ele. They close the distance too well and constantly. Burning Speed. RTL. Magnetic Grasp. Lightning Flash (usually used with churning earth).So many ways to close distance.

I mean, It’d be ok if Staff was purely for support if we had weapon swap, but we can’t. It’s not cool in PVP that Staff is only capable of one role. It shouldn’t be that way. I’ve fared well in 1v1’s until DD Eles got popular and they wreck easily. I can’t control distance with DD Eles.

There has to be some way to deal with DD eles. I can’t be the only decent Staff Ele on the forums. Sure feels like it since EA nerf though…

I feel your pain buddy, I also don´t like to be locked in the support role (Although I enjoy it in PvE). D/D just don´t fit the caster class for me (I have my Thief for that) and the staff has too much drawbacks unfortunately (slow projectiles, low dmg overall etc.) I just hope that the devs don´t intend to leave the only long-range option for Ele crippled like this
Btw, can you share your build? I like to experiment with different builds to find a new ideas

First of all, I think you need to accept that staff ele is not perfectly suited for 1v1 combat as it has more focus on support aoe. Secondly, most d/d eles will be defensively/balanced specced with good healing power, so they will be hard to take down without burst. If you are a staff bunker, you won’t kill him – but he will likely not kill you either.

Having said that, it all boils down to choice of builds and who is the better player. My advice, though of general character, is as follows:

1. You have to kite and use range to your advantage. Therefore, use your cc skills (and anti-cc) to your best effort and use them wisely (to interrup his combos). There are quite a few staff skills that are usefull here, such as Burning Retreat, Frozen Ground, Gust, Static Field, Windborne Speed, Shockwave, Unsteady Ground. In addition, you can spec cc utilities, though it depends on your build.

2. Dont attack when auras are up unless you are at good range (which you should be).

3. Time your burst till later in the fight, best timed when the d/d water attunement is on cooldown. Stay calm in the beginning, dont overextend and use all abilities at once. Autoattack for a while and try and stay at range and let the d/d ele work for it as he has to get within melee range to be dangerous. When he has exhausted many of his abilities (and they are on cooldown) you should swap to a more offensively role and go to town.

4. Heal early and preferable have regen to tick while you kite.

5. Accept that fact that the d/d ele can bail with RTL if things get ugly. You will likely not be able to catch him (just like thiefs). He will, however, likely be able to catch you, if you try to run.

6. Use terrain to your advantage but I guess that is common sense.

Thanks superkav. My main goal in the beginning is avoiding the initial burst as that fire combo hurts like hell.

I try hard to kite and use my range but the problem is the numerous options DD eles have to close the distance. While the skills Staff Eles have to close distance suck against good DD eles. Gust and Shockwave are risky and can miss easily. Burning Retreat and Unsteady Ground are decent but its mainly Static Field and Frozen Ground that really hold the DD ele in place. And those are high CD spells.

Also, Staff Eles don’t have a burst (at least, I don’t).

As for my build, well, it’s a little strange perhaps. I’m 30 Air, 10 Water, 30 Arcane. I use runes of the eagle with sigil of battle. I use knight amulet with zerker jewel. I like having tempest defense and vigor on crit. Very useful traits. The vigor on crit really helps keep me alive.

Here’s a link: http://www.gw2skills.net/editor/?fEAQFAWhEmkbnxygjDAkCmIeYRDSUekzO2A;TkAA2CnowxgjAHLOOck4MEB
or this link: http://gw2.luna-atra.fr/skills_tool/?lang=en&code=321020232bgklglm000u0au0i0m1d1gecenf1

I hit fairly hard and have pretty decent survivability. I crit about 1.5k-2k at 57% crit rate with 20k HP. I like Arcane Shield for oh kitten moments (also good against thiefbursts).

Your build seems to suggest an offensive ranged nuker. That makes you squishy and vulnerable when alone, not only against d/d eles (I assume thiefs are a nightmare for you?) You have almost no healing power and no toughness. Most d/d eles will at least have decent healing power and possibly some toughness which will give them an advantage.

You forego a lot of defensive stats in order to hit hard, which I don’t think is worth it because your squishiness does not outweight your offensive power (in other words, you are glass without the canon). I beelive you would stand a better chance by speccing more defensively.

I suggest at least get some healing power as staff eles has decent healing skills. Also, take Healing Ripple as it provides good healing for a minor trait (most d/d eles also have this). This will enable you to heal more while you kite.

Also, I suggest getting a bit more toughness so you can withstand the initial combo from the d/d ele. It will be a difficult match if you are close to death already from his first combo.

Cleansing wave, renewing stamina and Evasive arcane are great choices. I would probably change Blasting Staff to Elemental Attunemet for boons on swap, such as protection and regen. Note that with the recent patch you get a blast finisher from evasive arcane when in earh attunement which you can combo with your water fields for more healing. Arcane wave can also be used for this purpose.

Superkav.5012:

First of all, I think you need to accept that staff ele is not perfectly suited for 1v1 combat as it has more focus on support aoe. Secondly, most d/d eles will be defensively/balanced specced with good healing power, so they will be hard to take down without burst. If you are a staff bunker, you won’t kill him – but he will likely not kill you either.

Having said that, it all boils down to choice of builds and who is the better player. My advice, though of general character, is as follows:

1. You have to kite and use range to your advantage. Therefore, use your cc skills (and anti-cc) to your best effort and use them wisely (to interrup his combos). There are quite a few staff skills that are usefull here, such as Burning Retreat, Frozen Ground, Gust, Static Field, Windborne Speed, Shockwave, Unsteady Ground. In addition, you can spec cc utilities, though it depends on your build.

2. Dont attack when auras are up unless you are at good range (which you should be).

3. Time your burst till later in the fight, best timed when the d/d water attunement is on cooldown. Stay calm in the beginning, dont overextend and use all abilities at once. Autoattack for a while and try and stay at range and let the d/d ele work for it as he has to get within melee range to be dangerous. When he has exhausted many of his abilities (and they are on cooldown) you should swap to a more offensively role and go to town.

4. Heal early and preferable have regen to tick while you kite.

5. Accept that fact that the d/d ele can bail with RTL if things get ugly. You will likely not be able to catch him (just like thiefs). He will, however, likely be able to catch you, if you try to run.

6. Use terrain to your advantage but I guess that is common sense.

1. he will be getting close to you, real fast, you can only delay, DD ele is one of the most mobile classes. if it is a bunker DD then we won’t kill each other for a long time, i might win just barely because i make less mistakes or he didn’t remove any of my conditions quick enough. melee is easy for me because i know exactly where they need to be, right on you, so if you pop anything on you, you will hit them, save eruption, even then you can still hit with it because you can’t dodge eruption(no dodges beforehand work they can walk right back into its explosion)

2. Agreed, just use CC and run for a bit, make him give chace

3. staff ele does not have a lot of burst potential because of the long time it takes for any of our AoE to hit, the fastest burst potential is cleansing fire and arcane wave. burst is out but yeah timing is everything

4. always always heal when you can to its best advantage(if you heal 5k heal when you have lost 5k health)

5. wrong, staff ele is one of the few that can catch a DD ele, because of frozen ground, shaky ground, shockwave, static field, if they walk through any of these they will stop moving so you can get close, hit him with another one and another one, he will roll out so he won’t have any rolls left hit him with eruption(he will also have gone in and out of water attunement so he can get rid of a few of these conditions, nail his kitten with eruption)

6. yep common sense, but because of what the staff ele is, terrain isn’t much of a problem(since our auto attacks are basically useless so hitting him with AoE is where you get your damage)

Superkav.5012:

Your build seems to suggest an offensive ranged nuker. That makes you squishy and vulnerable when alone, not only against d/d eles (I assume thiefs are a nightmare for you?) You have almost no healing power and no toughness. Most d/d eles will at least have decent healing power and possibly some toughness which will give them an advantage.

You forego a lot of defensive stats in order to hit hard, which I don’t think is worth it because your squishiness does not outweight your offensive power (in other words, you are glass without the canon). I beelive you would stand a better chance by speccing more defensively.

I suggest at least get some healing power as staff eles has decent healing skills. Also, take Healing Ripple as it provides good healing for a minor trait (most d/d eles also have this). This will enable you to heal more while you kite.

Also, I suggest getting a bit more toughness so you can withstand the initial combo from the d/d ele. It will be a difficult match if you are close to death already from his first combo.

Cleansing wave, renewing stamina and Evasive arcane are great choices. I would probably change Blasting Staff to Elemental Attunemet for boons on swap, such as protection and regen. Note that with the recent patch you get a blast finisher from evasive arcane when in earh attunement which you can combo with your water fields for more healing. Arcane wave can also be used for this purpose.

You’re basically saying that I need to go bunker and get 10 earth, 30 water, 30 arcane. I don’t want to. I’m tired of playing support/defensively. I like to think of it as a more toned down glass. Wanted to go somewhere in between. But yeah, thieves can give me trouble but with tempest defense and MF and arcane shield. It’s ok. It’s an experimental build.

And how does any staff ele live without blasting staff? You’re crazy.

And yes, I know I can combo now. Hence I have Evasive Arcana now (why else would you use it?) and arcane wave.

Also, I find staff ele’s heals too weak without the pre-nerf EA where I could basically heal to full with multiple blast finishers from dodge rolls along with arcane wave. But maybe I should give it a second try. Ionno. Convince me. Staff heals seem to weak now, especially since Water 5 has a long cast time and it makes you stand still.

I mean, if we calculate it. Even with 30 Water. I can do Healing Rain, this heals 2k health over time. So-so. With arcane wave + evasive arcana, that’s an instant 3.2k health. Not much. If you don’t spec into water, you lose some condition removals, but you only lose about .4k worth of heals. A water EA (with only 10 in water) heals about 1.4k HP.

So, if I only put 10 in water. All I lose is a bit of 1 condition removal, a .4k of heal, and 2k of health. Speccing 30 into air gets me tempest defense which helps with pesky thieves and HB warriors and ups my crit percentage and crit damage and overall damage. But I guess I could try out 30 water again and see how it goes

SecondtoNone.7549:

Staff heals seem to weak now, especially since Water 5 has a long cast time and it makes you stand still.

Absolutely agreed, it´s very easy to get yourself killed because of that staying-still requirement, also it kinda forbids any situational use because of this, and it´s not even that good for the huge CD it has…
I vote for root removal for this skill at least.

further to point 5) It will nevertheless be hard to catch the d/d ele because of cleasing. Any condition cc will simply be removed and most d/d ele run with at least 2 stun removers. Add lightning flash and he will be hard to catch.

Yeah, so I don’t see how 30 water helps much anymore. An extra 2k hp isn’t gonna stop a thief from bursting me down in seconds. While.. tempest defense would! And I’d get much more damage output. The main thing I lose for not investing more into water is the condition removal from cleansing water.

But that’s why I also carry Ether Renewal and why I have at least 10 into water.

I am not saying go full bunker but I understand your concern. I have yet myself to find a perfect staff build that compares with the offensive powers of d/d eles. Your issue is not just for staff builds. All d/d eles go heavy arcane/water. The whole trait system makes other choices non-forgiving. There aren’t really – to my knowledge – many competitive builds for eles, staff or not.

It may be rather weak heals but if you drop some vitality for more toughness the heals will seem more effective. Also, you could get more healing power, as I said before.

Superkav.5012:

I am not saying go full bunker but I understand your concern. I have yet myself to find a perfect staff build that compares with the offensive powers of d/d eles. Your issue is not just for staff builds. All d/d eles go heavy arcane/water. The whole trait system makes other choices non-forgiving. There aren’t really – to my knowledge – many competitive builds for eles, staff or not.

It may be rather weak heals but if you drop some vitality for more toughness the heals will seem more effective. Also, you could get more healing power, as I said before.

Yeah. I just want to be an offensive staff Ele but it seems like it’s not really possible unless I go full glass and just hang in the sidelines. I’ve been trying to achieve an aggressive 1v1 build but I guess it’s not possible. :\

Armour of Earth > Rain > Dodge Roll > Swap to Earth > Dodge Roll Again > Eruption > Arcane Blast.

That what about 10k+ healing done right there? Staff is now back to it’s supporting glory, however it doesn’t have the OP blast finisher no matter what dodge roll.

Now about D/D Ele’s, it is more about situational awareness knowing what does what and what to avoid. Most Ele’s use the typical combo’s of RTL>Updraft ect so most of the time you can dodge when RTL hits and dodge the updraft or use burning retreat or they may Magnetic Grasp you into a knockdown (You can still dodge the knockdown while immobilized). Though some Ele’s may think on the fly and get creative, those are the ones you want to watch out for as they don’t use your typical combos. For example my favorite is teleporting onto a point then using updraft to get them off the point.

D/D’s main counter is CC, freeze, immobilize and cripple really hurt a D/D ele immobilize more so. Luckily as a Staff ele you have a nice amount of CC to hinder their movement however killing them is a different story as most will just escape if you do manage to get them down to low health. If you’re in a group situation and you see their D/D getting low pop earth 5, 9/10 they will be dead.

There isn’t really much of a hard counter to D/D apart from outplaying them.

If you combine Elemental Surge with Arcane Power and Water Magic, you can get up to 15 seconds of chill on your target. If you use it with earth, you can immobilize them for 5 seconds with the same combo.

How do you get 15s of chill? Elemental surge only gives you 5s per arcane spell? Does Arcane Power make all your next attacks arcane?

@Curring
How is that 10k heal? Wouldn’t the Rain have run out before you finished that heal combo? You’re supposed to use eruption before healing rain. It should be Eruption + Healing Rain + Roll + Arcane Wave. That’s 5k heal + 2k over time from healing rain. That’s like using a glyph of harmony. And it took a lot of spells and time to do.

SecondtoNone.7549:

How do you get 15s of chill? Elemental surge only gives you 5s per arcane spell? Does Arcane Power make all your next attacks arcane?

Yes, that’s exactly what it does. Your next 5 water blasts cause 3 seconds chill each.

SecondtoNone.7549:

How do you get 15s of chill? Elemental surge only gives you 5s per arcane spell? Does Arcane Power make all your next attacks arcane?

@Curring
How is that 10k heal? Wouldn’t the Rain have run out before you finished that heal combo? You’re supposed to use eruption before healing rain. It should be Eruption + Healing Rain + Roll + Arcane Wave. That’s 5k heal + 2k over time from healing rain. That’s like using a glyph of harmony. And it took a lot of spells and time to do.

Visual explanation is better than text explanation sometimes, hope you don’t mind; http://youtu.be/MvZtaNr8ICM

I have 1.2k healing (Clerics Ammy with Soldiers Gem and using runes of Dwayna) so each blast finisher heals for about 2.5k, so does attuning to water, I can’t remember how much the water dodge roll heals for though as usually I don’t see the green numbers (If there are any for it). So that’s 5 direct heals with 20 seconds of regeneration (Not to mention the condi removal). I usually use this combo when I hit 50% health as I get a free armour of earth and can burst heal myself and allies, I then use my armour of earth utility for sure stomps or if I need to cast meteor without being interrupted, more so the former.

I feel it’s balanced well with the one blast finisher.

ThiBash.5634:

If you combine Elemental Surge with Arcane Power and Water Magic, you can get up to 15 seconds of chill on your target. If you use it with earth, you can immobilize them for 5 seconds with the same combo.

Too bad Immobilize is bug and does not stack in duration ;P

You could use it with air attunement to blind mesmer and drive them into insanity. hahah

Thanks curring! Very useful to know. I’m used to eruption > healing rain > roll 3 times + arcane wave but that way sounds even better with EA nerf.

The elemental surge thing sounds useful. Might try to incorporate it into my build sometime but at the same time, is it better than glyph of storms which has an AoE blind?

What do you guys think of 20 air, 20 water, and 30 arcane? Does anyone run an offensive staff ele that can 1v1?

Also, how do you guys open? I’ve been going with Frozen Ground > Switch to Earth > Roll > Arcane Wave for 5 seconds of frost armor > Lava Font > Flame Burst. Just something I’ve been trying recently.

i run an offensive condition staff ele, i only have forever battles with bunker builds, since we can’t kill each other, eruption may be hard to hit with, but its what changes the battle in your favor, since, i tested this, it does around 10k damage if left alone, so it even if its only on for a couple of seconds it will do a massive amount of damage

Yeah, I used to run condition/toughness too but relying on eruption to hit kinda sucks.

What traits do you get? Runes?

Im a D/D ele and i can tell you the worst thing you can do to us is poison and chill(thats why thief are so good against us).Poison makes our heals inefective and chill makes us slow.
Hope it helps

Staff eles don’t have poison and the only chill is frozen ground. That’s on a 40s CD I believe.

Didn’t like the new EA and I’m back to running my old build. 10 Fire. 30 Air. 10 Earth. 20 Arcane. Might go 20 fire or 10 water instead of 10 earth. I like this build more than a condition build because condition builds rely too much one eruption landing (this is the hardest spell to land imo for staff eles).

Plus with this build, I do soo much damage to crowds. 3k meteor storms and lava fonts are crazy good against crowds.

I’m just gonna give general tip for fighting vs D/Ds as a fellow elementalist.
You know them in and out! Counter them, you know what they are gonna do. Most DDs follow a standard rotations and standard tricks.

He is casting Churning Earth out of range of you? Still dodge just before end because he will blink on you just before tick.
RTL beaming to you → dodge because 90% of dds will follow that with Updraft.
You got updrafted, lying on ground and you see Fire swap, pop mist form just as DD uses Burning Speed, because 90% of them will. You will prolly avoid both BS and RF/FG. Possiby even some of the following Drake’s breath if he doesn’t react properly.
Be patient with dodges, use them on correct spells because DD “relys” on nailing these burst combos.
After you pwn avoided his updraft, burnign speed combo, you know he is gonna stack the burning on u, patiently watch him Drake’s Breath and then cleanse it with water swap. Nice ~4k dmg removed there.
Focus using CC right after RTL is on cooldown. Try not using CCs on basic fight situations, you have to get the opening avoided and then actually starting the fight from situation where he is out of range and out of fire burst & Air on cd.

Try aiming your ground aoes on top of yourself and kite just behind them.
Save either or both Shockwave and Static Field for actually finishing him, most reasonable way of you actually winning is assuming DD is too kitteny at low health, and gets caught in immobilize + eruption, lava font, ice spike combo, or part of it.

It’s a fight the DD shouldnt really be able to loose, but if you are really patient with nailing the dodges and countering his movement with cc. I’ll actually reiterate that.
- Counter his movement with CC, don’t have him countering your CC with his movement.

This is how I play DD v DD mirror fight too when i roam about, because every single DD elementalist, yeah, you too, follows the same combos. So I fight it with pure reactive style avoiding all his big combos, making him burn dodges on jukes so I hit all of my big hits.

Dude, awesome post. That’s the perfect post on how to fight DD Eles. Nice. Thank you very much.

Using the AoE on top of yourself and making him approach sounds like a really good idea. Works better than trying to aim the AoE against the super mobile DD ele.

SecondtoNone.7549:

Dude, awesome post. That’s the perfect post on how to fight DD Eles. Nice. Thank you very much.

Using the AoE on top of yourself and making him approach sounds like a really good idea. Works better than trying to aim the AoE against the super mobile DD ele.

-facepalm- putting aoe on yourself is the best way for hitting with AoE, i thought that was common sense. since they must come to you to damage to you, so you already figured out over half of the timing portion of all AoE, knowing where he is going to be when your AoE hits, other part is knowing where you are going to be, since if you are not in it, he won’t be either

Atomic Sharks.7250:

SecondtoNone.7549:

Dude, awesome post. That’s the perfect post on how to fight DD Eles. Nice. Thank you very much.

Using the AoE on top of yourself and making him approach sounds like a really good idea. Works better than trying to aim the AoE against the super mobile DD ele.

-facepalm- putting aoe on yourself is the best way for hitting with AoE, i thought that was common sense. since they must come to you to damage to you, so you already figured out over half of the timing portion of all AoE, knowing where he is going to be when your AoE hits, other part is knowing where you are going to be, since if you are not in it, he won’t be either

Usually I put in between me and my opponent or in the direction of where they’re running. Most classes can’t close the gap as well as DD ele anyway. Thieves and DD ele are simply great at closing the distance.

if you can get the AoE blast to hit where you are, you have basically caused the person to either stop attacking you or to get hit, either way it is good for you, for range then you do as you have said above or just pop magnetic aura and watch them kill themselves, either works