Guild Wars 2

I am one for balanced game play and believe that staff needs some tweaking down to it. The below proposed changes I believe to be balanced and add more support to the staff. They also make a lot of sense considering their descriptions, similarity to other skills and even theme of the attunement.

Earth Skill 1 : It does not make sense for this skill to cause weakness when that condition is other wise exclusively and thematically associated with Air on all the other skills and traits. It would make more sense for this skill to instead explode and inflict 1 bleed in a small radius. This would make the most sense since all weapons skill 1 for Ele (except staff) cause bleed but in different variations and this would follow that trend.

Pro- Would give ele’s a better variation on doing the appropriate conditions for this attunement.

Ice Spike : This skill works identical to Dragons Tooth in that there is a delay when cast before it hit’s its target and they both inflict a comparable level of condition, however Ice Spike does not blast. This should be a blast finisher with that in mind.

Pro- This gives staff more capability to blast fields and lend more to support.
Pro- Because of it’s cast time and the time it takes to hit a targeted area (much like dragons tooth) and it’s cool down matches dragons tooth it would not be able to hit a field any more than dragons tooth cold.
Pro- More blast on staff which is lacking in it’s ability to do so.

The Ice Spike suggestion is sensible enough, and I’m all for that - but I’m pretty sure that either of the other two would be far too many blasts.
In Fire Attunement especially, we’d gain a regular, heavy-hitting blast finisher in an attunement that can maintain fire fields - with Persisting Flames to keep up the font, this would make it far too easy to maintain might and fury with just weapon skills.
Particularly if this is done on allies fighting 1200 units away from you.

Our Earth AA could definitely see some changes made to make it more useful, though I’m not really sure what - I don’t see a problem with a huge rock causing weakness when it hits a foe, but with the attack being as mediocre it is (especially accuracy-wise) the duration of the condition is far too short to make any meaningful difference to combat.

cheese.4739:

The Ice Spike suggestion is sensible enough, and I’m all for that – but I’m pretty sure that either of the other two would be far too many blasts.
In Fire Attunement especially, we’d gain a regular, heavy-hitting blast finisher in an attunement that can maintain fire fields – with Persisting Flames to keep up the font, this would make it far too easy to maintain might and fury with just weapon skills.
Particularly if this is done on allies fighting 1200 units away from you.

Our Earth AA could definitely see some changes made to make it more useful, though I’m not really sure what – I don’t see a problem with a huge rock causing weakness when it hits a foe, but with the attack being as mediocre it is (especially accuracy-wise) the duration of the condition is far too short to make any meaningful difference to combat.

I would agree, but again the enemy would literally have to stand in the fire field and there is no way you are going to blast as fast as a S/D which can do 25 might in under 8 second easy.

Earth and Fire 1 follow the target and cannot be placed where you want it. Weakness makes no sense in earth.

Though as a concession, the blast chance can be reduced if there actually turns out to be a balance issue.

Maskah.1486:

I would agree, but again the enemy would literally have to stand in the fire field and there is no way you are going to blast as fast as a S/D which can do 25 might in under 8 second easy.

Staff’s usefulness in PvP comes from area control – if someone wants to contest the capture point, they have to stand in your AoE. If someone wants to come at you… they have to stand in your AoE.
Combined with, say, Arcane Brilliance and Arcane Wave, and leading in with an Eruption, this would definitely give very powerful might stacking combined with constant AoE damage ticks from the already excellent Lava Font.
That we have to swap out of Fire (or use our 6-9 skills) to get some utility is what stops this from being too powerful as it is – if we could suddenly also easily stack might while standing on a Lava Font, with utility skills reserved exclusively for defence, Staff Fire would be pretty broken.

Earth and Fire 1 follow the target and cannot be placed where you want it. Weakness makes no sense in earth.

The projectiles are terribly slow, yes, but as said above – your fields are likely to be over a capture point (or other desirable area), as is your target, so the projectiles would land in it anyway.
With regards to “weakness not making sense in earth”, would you not need to recover from getting hit in the chest with a rock? The condition fits well with the skill’s theme.
Why would this rock explode, though? Would you want Engi pistol #1 to get blast finishers, since those shots ‘explode’?

Though as a concession, the blast chance can be reduced if there actually turns out to be a balance issue.

Definitely not – auto-attacks are usually just time-killers anyway, while waiting for skills/attunements to come off cooldown. Making us rely on them for combo finishers, then making those combo finishers unreliable to use in fields, would be terrible. If I want to blast a water field it’s because I (or someone nearby) needs a heal, and I shouldn’t have to cross my fingers hoping that a blast procs.

Most of my point is this: blast finishers on autoattacks would be a terrible idea. They’d be far too powerful, able to proc several times in every field on the battlefield, and introducing a proc chance would just turn them into an RNG nightmare that wasn’t reliably useful.
Our autos could do with some improvement, yes – a projectile speed buff if nothing else – but turning them into spammable, powerful finishers isn’t the way to go about it.

actually…. Stoning combined with Stone Heart will be really op, since you won’t get crit damage that mean 50% of regular attacks will be glancing you because of weakness inflicted for 3s

This sentence:

I am one for balanced game play

and this sentence:

Fire Skill 1 : Since this explodes would it not make sense for it to blast? Sure you would be able to blast pretty often, but your target would need to be standing in a field for it to work.

do not match. Do you have any idea how insanely powerful a blast finisher every second would be? In fact, do you even realize how strong blast finishers are in general?

Earth Skill 1 :If changed to explode it should also become a blast finisher.

No.

Ice Spike : This skill works identical to Dragons Tooth in that there is a delay when cast before it hit’s its target and they both inflict a comparable level of condition, however Ice Spike does not blast. This should be a blast finisher with that in mind.

No. It would mean you could get 2 blast finishers in a single healing rain or frozen ground (3 if you prep an eruption, 4 if you also add in arcane wave). Way over the top.

Pro- More combos on staff which is lacking in it’s ability to do so.

Staff is THE combo weapon in the game. You get your finishers from Earth, as well as Arcane skills and Evasive Arcana. If you’re gonna add blast finishers to auto attacks then you truly need to learn what blast finishers can do. Might stacking is the least of their uses.

Why acces to multiple blast finishers is a bad idea:
The combined healing effect of 2 blast finishers is roughly the same as that of a #6 heal. Your suggestions would lead to 4 blast finishers per healing field, meaning you’d effectively heal heal up to 5 people for twice their own healing skills. On every cast.

ThiBash.5634:

Ice Spike : This skill works identical to Dragons Tooth in that there is a delay when cast before it hit’s its target and they both inflict a comparable level of condition, however Ice Spike does not blast. This should be a blast finisher with that in mind.

No. It would mean you could get 2 blast finishers in a single healing rain or frozen ground (3 if you prep an eruption, 4 if you also add in arcane wave). Way over the top.

Actually we can already do a huge number of blasts in one field:
1) Eruption
2) Brilliance
3) Wave
4) Evasive Arcana-Earth
5) Flame Axe

And since Eruption needs to be precast and the others are utilities, you can actually get 2 Flame Axe blasts if you’re very quick in that Healing Rain.

This does require heavy trait and utility investment, and that’s one issue with Staff: it’s combo-tastic, but we have a very limited number of combo skills on the weapon itself, as well as not many finishers to choose from among our utilities. The only one I haven’t yet mentioned is Lightning Hammer’s AA chain… and that’s because it’s unreliable at best for getting off blasts.

One important thing about Ice Spike, should it ever be considered for a finisher: it’s got a long precast, same as Eruption, and delay before it hits. An Ele casting both in succession would be clearly setting up for a serious combo, and ripe for interruption – and we don’t have much access to blocks or stability without long cooldowns or the option of switching back to Earth Attunement (which has just been left for the combo).
I can’t think of anything that’d be more highly telegraphed than an Eruption+Ice Spike, with their impressive animations.

cheese.4739:

Actually we can already do a huge number of blasts in one field:
1) Eruption
2) Brilliance
3) Wave
4) Evasive Arcana-Earth
5) Flame Axe

And since Eruption needs to be precast and the others are utilities, you can actually get 2 Flame Axe blasts if you’re very quick in that Healing Rain.

This does require heavy trait and utility investment

That final sentence explains why it is balanced. What the OP is suggesting is to add a similar effect to every staff ele. It would be way too powerful.

and that’s one issue with Staff: it’s combo-tastic, but we have a very limited number of combo skills on the weapon itself, as well as not many finishers to choose from among our utilities.

It’s already got a good number of finishers compared to other professions and weapon sets. Staff is a field generator first and foremost, which is also where its power lies. The fact that it gets finishers at all is a bonus, and an important one, but it shouldn’t be overdone.

1) Fire Skill 1 : NO WAY. You can already have constant fire field with the staff in fire. You could maintain about 18 stack of might FOR EVER with that. You already can put a good number of might and constant fury with the right build. Right now you have S/X Ele for Might stacking and Staff Ele for DPS. Your change would combine both build into a super build that can do pretty much everything DPS wise.
2) Earth Skill 1: Still not a good idea to put a blast finisher on auto-attack, but at least you need to switch attunement to stack might. Oh right, now you could have 1 ele in fire (for constant fire field) and 1 ele in earth (for constant fire blast). That scream OVERPOWER like crazy. But i agree that this skill need to modification, its weak right now.
3) Ice Spike could use some buff maybe, but not Blast finisher. OMG you really need to learn how to use combo field/finisher, we already have A LOT of them.

ThiBash.5634:

and that’s one issue with Staff: it’s combo-tastic, but we have a very limited number of combo skills on the weapon itself, as well as not many finishers to choose from among our utilities.

It’s already got a good number of finishers compared to other professions and weapon sets. Staff is a field generator first and foremost, which is also where its power lies. The fact that it gets finishers at all is a bonus, and an important one, but it shouldn’t be overdone.

So you argue that Staff should be useless on its own, if the finishers are a bonus?

If a Staff user wants to trait for more useful combos, such as auramancy or Persisting Flames, they also need to bring enough finishers themselves to create those combos – other players’ finishers won’t cut it.

While the OP’s autoattack-blast suggestsions are just silly, the Ice Spike one has come up before and I still think it’s a good one – an Ele can’t hang in Water Attunement for too long (lest it be unavailable when they want to switch back), and the skill does have a lengthy cast time, so enemies should fire off interrupts just as the Ice Spike cast finishes to rupt the field and prevent the Ele from healing.

I say just make every staff skill but the 1 skill ground target.

I was kind of tired when I made my original post and had time to think about it. I have since edited my original post to reflect that.

As far as getting hit with a big rock I would seriously expect broken bones and internal bleeding not so much being weekened.

Electricity however will weaken an individual as it wreaks havoc on your nervous system.

Wait, can you still hit people with your full strength, with broken bones and internal bleeding? I would’ve thought that such physical injuries weakened you somewhat.

chris.6583:

actually…. Stoning combined with Stone Heart will be really op, since you won’t get crit damage that mean 50% of regular attacks will be glancing you because of weakness inflicted for 3s

They changed it to 50% of all hits weather critical or not are glancing blows. However stone heart completely removes crits.

cheese.4739:

Wait, can you still hit people with your full strength, with broken bones and internal bleeding? I would’ve thought that such physical injuries weakened you somewhat.

It would be very situational that you are weakened. Adrenaline can make you ignore the fact that you are kittened up while nerve damage is nerve damage, your body simply isn’t going to respond properly no matter how much adrenaline you have pumping.