DO FAST HANDS BASELINE
Staff fresh air
lava font while you auto is cool, but dagger/warhorn can do that as well. wildfire and burning speed
meteor shower is good, but so is lightning orb+3 lightning whips
Anyway yes, it seems good. almost as much dps as dagger/warhorn, from my tests
Made this rotation some weeks ago. It should have gotten buffed together with the +250 extra ferocity from Fresh Air. I’d argue it’s slightly behind normal staff rotation with the added inconvenience of LH left behind in cases where the fight is mobile.
Why not try Fire Arcane Air staff fresh air, and instead of lightning hammer, glyph of elemental power for burn?
Alerie Despins
Why not try Fire Arcane Air staff fresh air, and instead of lightning hammer, glyph of elemental power for burn?
Turns out Fresh Air without Overload Air is pretty bad
Staff damage in air is kitten. Only reason to swap into it besides the Overload is the static field, which is situational and the AoE swiftness.
The only reason it works with dagger main hand is, because the AA in lightning is strong and you actually do damage during the 5 seconds you wait for Air Overload to charge.
With staff, you are going to do kitten for those 5 seconds, because staff air hits like a wet noodle.
I haven’t done the math to be sure, but I am pretty sure it’s going to be a net dps loss over building for camping fire.
Rehabilitated Elementalist. Now, trolling the Thief forums with my math.
Nah it’s actually slightly better dps than camping fire.
Fireball is just as bad at dps as chain lightning
Lava font is fire’s best skill, and you still get to use it while spamming air overloads. just not as often
Meteor shower is fire’s second best skill, and you still get to use that at nearly 100% efficiency
Meanwhile air overload is huge damage and more than makes up for only getting in half as many lava fonts
Nah it’s actually slightly better dps than camping fire.
Fireball is just as bad at dps as chain lightning
Lava font is fire’s best skill, and you still get to use it while spamming air overloads. just not as often
Meteor shower is fire’s second best skill, and you still get to use that at nearly 100% efficiency
Meanwhile air overload is huge damage and more than makes up for only getting in half as many lava fonts
No offensive, but I would still have to do the math to fully buy this, because this is an argument that is based on perception and I know just from the numbers it’s going to be close. I might do it if I get some time later.
In a group setting, where multiple people are acquiring the Static Charge buff, I would probably buy it’s higher DPS, just because of how fast you can reapply it.
I have, however, had my ideas about Elementalist mechanics challenged before and been proven wrong, so not ruling it out.
Rehabilitated Elementalist. Now, trolling the Thief forums with my math.
Nah it’s actually slightly better dps than camping fire.
Fireball is just as bad at dps as chain lightning
Fireball may not be good DPS but Chain Lightning is definitely worse. Additionally Fireball benefits from +150 power in fire attunement and +20% damage when boss is under 50% health.
Nah it’s actually slightly better dps than camping fire.
Fireball is just as bad at dps as chain lightning
Fireball may not be good DPS but Chain Lightning is definitely worse. Additionally Fireball benefits from +150 power in fire attunement and +20% damage when boss is under 50% health.
I was thinking about Alacrity + Swapping attunements to cast the number 2, but always in-between air auto-attacks.
Alerie Despins
Nah it’s actually slightly better dps than camping fire.
Fireball is just as bad at dps as chain lightning
Fireball may not be good DPS but Chain Lightning is definitely worse. Additionally Fireball benefits from +150 power in fire attunement and +20% damage when boss is under 50% health.
It is worse but I’m not basing the build entirely on fireball vs chain lightning, the real winner here is using lava font inbetween overload airs. Lava font alone, with persisting flames, lasts for 6 seconds, for a total of 6k+ damage if you are full zerker.
Its close to basically throwing in a hundred blades after each overload air, the lava font lasts for the reload duration of overload air. Chain lightning is just a filler.
And I know you lose wildfire, burning speed and lightning orb, but those are all in longer cooldowns, while lava font is 4 seconds. Plus, you get meteor shower aswell.
DO FAST HANDS BASELINE
Nah it’s actually slightly better dps than camping fire.
Fireball is just as bad at dps as chain lightning
Lava font is fire’s best skill, and you still get to use it while spamming air overloads. just not as often
Meteor shower is fire’s second best skill, and you still get to use that at nearly 100% efficiency
Meanwhile air overload is huge damage and more than makes up for only getting in half as many lava fontsNo offensive, but I would still have to do the math to fully buy this, because this is an argument that is based on perception and I know just from the numbers it’s going to be close. I might do it if I get some time later.
In a group setting, where multiple people are acquiring the Static Charge buff, I would probably buy it’s higher DPS, just because of how fast you can reapply it.
I have, however, had my ideas about Elementalist mechanics challenged before and been proven wrong, so not ruling it out.
Most things I say are based on math.
basic fire camping rotation, w/o alacrity or quickness:
lava font: 4.8 (0.8 * 6 hits)
meteor shower: 11 (1.3 * seems to average at 8-9 hits per cast)
lava font: 4.8
overload fire: 10 (1.0 * 10)
lava font: 4.8
fireball x3: 2.55 (0.85 * 3)
lava font: 4.8
fireball x3: 2.55
lava font: 4.8
fireball x3: 2.55
repeat
total: 4.8*5 + 11 + 10 + 2.55*3 = 52.65
basic fresh air rotation:
overload air: 14.8 (0.85 * 17 hits + ~0.35 from static charge)
lava font: 4.8
meteor shower: 11
electric discharge: 0.7
chain lightning x2: 1.32 (0.66 * 2)
overload air: 14.8
lava font: 4.8
electric discharge: 0.7
chain lightning x5: 3.3 (0.66 * 5)
repeat
total: 14.8*2 + 4.8*2 + 11 + 1.32 + 3.3 + 0.7*2 = 56.22
factors not considered:
vulnerability from overload air
static charge buff on allies
might from overload fire
burning from overload fire
difference in damage mods on traits: bolt to the heart vs fresh air ferocity, etc
utility skills (glyph of storms, ice bow)
both take about the same amount of time, but it’s not quite exact. If you do your overload air rotation perfectly, meteor shower is still on a 1-2s cooldown when you start the next, so repeat rotations include an extra fireball or something
(edited by reikken.4961)
In a group setting, where multiple people are acquiring the Static Charge buff, I would probably buy it’s higher DPS, just because of how fast you can reapply it.
Static Charge has the same coefficient of Sigil of Air which has an estimated DPS of 709 (taken average of ~50 strikes). The Static Charge is applied to 5 players and with a decent fresh air rotation the overload air, and hence Static Charge, will happen every 10-12 seconds.
Assuming the optimal scenario of 10 seconds, 709*3*5/10 = 1063 groupwide bonus DPS or 212 as personal bonus DPS. Safe to say it’s not much but it’s something
oh I didn’t realize static charge can’t crit. lemme adjust the maths on my prev post
also it’s affected by power and vulnerability and etc. 709 is too low unless you’re hitting something with a ton of armor
I was using 53 strikes from a Gorseval and Sabetha kill. Seems raid bosses generally stick with that amount of armor (2200 afaik) so it felt most accurate for estimations.
Burn from fire overload is usually huge. Sinister might do most damage with fire spec (burning precision) throwing in flame blast. But here dagger will do more.
Even in zerker the might + burn will add strong to fire camping doing more then air.
Nah it’s actually slightly better dps than camping fire.
Fireball is just as bad at dps as chain lightning
Lava font is fire’s best skill, and you still get to use it while spamming air overloads. just not as often
Meteor shower is fire’s second best skill, and you still get to use that at nearly 100% efficiency
Meanwhile air overload is huge damage and more than makes up for only getting in half as many lava fontsNo offensive, but I would still have to do the math to fully buy this, because this is an argument that is based on perception and I know just from the numbers it’s going to be close. I might do it if I get some time later.
In a group setting, where multiple people are acquiring the Static Charge buff, I would probably buy it’s higher DPS, just because of how fast you can reapply it.
I have, however, had my ideas about Elementalist mechanics challenged before and been proven wrong, so not ruling it out.
Most things I say are based on math.
basic fire camping rotation, w/o alacrity or quickness:
lava font: 4.8 (0.8 * 6 hits)
meteor shower: 11 (1.3 * seems to average at 8-9 hits per cast)
lava font: 4.8
overload fire: 10 (1.0 * 10)
lava font: 4.8
fireball x3: 2.55 (0.85 * 3)
lava font: 4.8
fireball x3: 2.55
lava font: 4.8
fireball x3: 2.55
repeattotal: 4.8*5 + 11 + 10 + 2.55*3 = 52.65
basic fresh air rotation:
overload air: 14.8 (0.85 * 17 hits + ~0.35 from static charge)
lava font: 4.8
meteor shower: 11
electric discharge: 0.7
chain lightning x2: 1.32 (0.66 * 2)
overload air: 14.8
lava font: 4.8
electric discharge: 0.7
chain lightning x5: 3.3 (0.66 * 5)
repeattotal: 14.8*2 + 4.8*2 + 11 + 1.32 + 3.3 + 0.7*2 = 56.22
factors not considered:
vulnerability from overload air
static charge buff on allies
might from overload fire
burning from overload fire
difference in damage mods on traits: bolt to the heart vs fresh air ferocity, etc
utility skills (glyph of storms, ice bow)both take about the same amount of time, but it’s not quite exact. If you do your overload air rotation perfectly, meteor shower is still on a 1-2s cooldown when you start the next, so repeat rotations include an extra fireball or something
My bad, man. Sorry for the faulty assumption.
Yeah, this math is correct and it’s about what I came out to, but not including the factors of might on fire overload vs vulnerability of air overload is a big deal.
Just those factors alone skew the damage greatly, because power is a multiplier applied to base weapon damage BEFORE the skill coefficient and armor calculations are applied and vulnerability is a percentage applied after the initial damage calculation.
The calculation is the following…
Damage done = (Weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)
Damage done = (Damage done * vulnerability percentage) + damage done
Let’s assume these numbers…
Highest damage roll on a legendary staff = 1166
Fireball coefficient = .85
Base power = 1000
Standard armor amount for a level 80 creature = 2597
So with that, we get…
Base fireball damage : 281.63
Base fireball damage with 1 stack of might from fire overload (30 power): 393
Base fireball damage modified with 1 stack of vulnerability from air overload (1% damage increase): 294.75
I stopped there and didn’t do the rest of the math, because I don’t feel it’s neccessary. Just pulse of fire overloads skews the proceeding damage from skills so much that there is no way that fire camping doesn’t win out in the end over a fresh air rotation.
Of course, there is various scenarios to consider. Like, if you are in group that can maintain 25 group might stacks without you, but has no vulnerability application, then clearly Fresh Air staff is going to win out, even without factoring in the application of Static Strike to the other group members.
Even in a scenario where a group maintain both 25 stacks of might and 25 stacks of vulnerability without you, fresh air staff will win out just because it has higher base damage.
Another scenario I didn’t do the math for would be a lvl 80 creature with a much higher armor stat, like husks or the armor for lvl 81+ creatures. I don’t have those armor values though, but I do know they are going to reduce the effectiveness of power by a significant amount. I don’t know if they reduce the effectiveness to the point where an additional 30 power results in a damage increase less than 1%, but if it does, vulnerability obviously wins out.
But in general, going to solo, camping fire is going to be more damage, more consistent and an easier rotation than fresh air.
This is also why I think fire overload is unfairly underrated based on perception, because in any scenario where you can’t maintain 25 mights stack independent of Fire Overload, using Fire Overload is a big deal. That’s just because of how uterrly insane stacking power as a stat it is, because it applies so far in down in the base damage calculations that it’s resulting effect pretty much overshadows everything else.
It’s why the Zerker meta is the Zerker meta, because one stack of might just gives so much crazy value.
Rehabilitated Elementalist. Now, trolling the Thief forums with my math.
(edited by MadRabbit.3179)
Base fireball damage : 281.63
Base fireball damage with 1 stack of might from fire overload (30 power): 393
uh what
Did you perhaps mean *2*93? because if you stop to reality check that even for a moment, it’s very clear that you’re doing something wrong. 1 stack of might doesn’t increase damage by 40% no matter what the situation is. You would need to have … 76 power. at 80. for these numbers to be correct.
Next, anyone using fresh air is going to have a lot more than 1000 power before might. 2500 is a better estimate.
1 stack of might increases 2500 power to 2530, a 1.2% increase. Slightly better than vulnerability’s 1%.
Overload Fire applies 10 stacks of might.
Overload Air applies 17 stacks of vulnerability, and is used about twice as frequently.
Base fireball damage : 281.63
Base fireball damage with 1 stack of might from fire overload (30 power): 393uh what
Did you perhaps mean *2*93? because if you stop to reality check that even for a moment, it’s very clear that you’re doing something wrong. 1 stack of might doesn’t increase damage by 40% no matter what the situation is. You would need to have … 76 power. at 80. for these numbers to be correct.Next, anyone using fresh air is going to have a lot more than 1000 power before might. 2500 is a better estimate.
1 stack of might increases 2500 power to 2530, a 1.2% increase. Slightly better than vulnerability’s 1%.
Overload Fire applies 10 stacks of might.
Overload Air applies 17 stacks of vulnerability, and is used about twice as frequently.
No, I’m not. Power just suffers from diminishing returns, due to how it’s calculated. If you change the base to 2500, the difference in value is significantly less, but fire still pulls out ahead I believe.
There is other factors like camping fire being able to generate might off fire skill usages, which all increases the overall DPS of the rotation.
The whole thing is really variable with the less offensive you gear netting you a higher dps increase in fire over fresh air.
It’s a pain in the kitten to calculate with all the mechanics that come into play. I wish the game had an in game DPS meter. But it doesn’t and at this point, I am getting kind of tired of it.
With a base 2500 power, I’m pretty sure they just end up being pretty equal in practice when you take it all into consideration with fire coming ahead more and more as you have less power from your gear.
Rehabilitated Elementalist. Now, trolling the Thief forums with my math.
Yes, if you aren’t gearing for power damage, fire is of course going to be much better, especially since burning damage doesn’t care about your power, and being in fire grants you extra power (vs being in air granting you extra precision).
There is other factors like camping fire being able to generate might off fire skill usages, which all increases the overall DPS of the rotation.
only if you don’t take the trait that makes your best skill do 50% more damage. which results in a notable dps loss against stationary targets in a power build
Decided to do some DPS number checking with different rotations. Remember these numbers are gotten through spreadsheet assumptions with every buff (scholar, GotL, alacrity etc) as permanent. The numbers will not be what you will see in a real scenario, the variance between the different rotations though should be close to the same.
- Normal camp fire staff – 32614
- Fresh Air Staff (reikken rotation) – 30508
- LH Fresh Air Staff (rotation in video above) – 31360
(edited by Snowball.3497)
Interesting. I’d like to see these calculations. or more specifically, the method. Mind posting them to google sheets or something?
Also the rotations I posted were for no alacrity or quickness. and do not include utility skills. For maximum dps, I believe one would add glyph of storms and ice bow.
At this point, I’ll just concede it’s a viable build equal if not somewhat greater than camping fire in some scenarios.
There is too many variables that are in flux for second to second with both and it would take me hours to calculate them all. I’m not gonna do that and I don’t have a DPS meter to run tests.
Rehabilitated Elementalist. Now, trolling the Thief forums with my math.