Guild Wars 2

Hi guys! i want you guys to answer a question, and dont think like healers is bad for pve dps all the way, if you drop that, and just see neutral, what do staff excel most at, nuking or healing/utility?

Big Tower.5423:

Thank you guys for the input, i think il go full healer/utlity for both pve and wvwvw (yes i know dps is meta… but im not a speedrun guy :P i wanna save the pugs xD

Don’t even worry about it man.

You could go in and do dungeons in white gear level 80 with zero stats or even any traits spent and provided you’re skilled enough to not flop over dead you can pretty much pull anything off and no one will ever say a word.

No one is going to call you out on your DPS or how you play because the truth is no one in game has any way to prove factually that one person is doing more DPS than another. They can calculate it all theoretically about what you should be doing to theoretically get the maximum DPS but since no one can actually check if you’re doing maximum DPS or even no DPS it doesn’t matter.

Sounds like you want to do support, go that route and if any one gives you any guff (not that I’ve ever had anyone question anything I’m doing in dungeons over the course of 100’s of PUG dungeons) just tell them to mind their business.

The only viable build with the staff is support/healing.

Besides anyone who thought “dps all the way” left ele a long time ago.

Staff only works if you make use of everything you have. Use all your offensive/defensive support skills, but make sure you deal damage too. Don’t sit around in water if nobody needs healing.

I would say staff is better at CC and DPS.

Staff has is strong in utility, but its damage is also very significant (in fire).
I would say it is a balanced weapon and a safe start in PvE if you are less experienced

Remember the saying ? “Alt + F4 if you cant kill a staff ele”

Fuzzion.2504:

Remember the saying ? “Alt + F4 if you cant kill a staff ele”

I am pretty sure the AI can’t Alt + F4

Which is staff better at? Hm, I’d say… AoE.

Most significant heals any ele can do come from water 15 trait and EA anyway, weapon skills are really poor for actualy healing they provide, and best part of them really is the waterfields that can be finished.

Staff is a teamplay weapon, you should be keeping your team alive with cc and provide fields to finish (extra deeps from might, heals from waters etc), while dealing some sustained damage at the same time.

If this was about what type of gear you should be looking for, go as glassy as you can while still being abel to survive. Healing power gear is not worth it in my opinion, too low returns for the amount you have to invest.

Staff is actually great for dps IMO. I can consistently crit for 2-5+k depending on what skill is used. Personally I would avoid trying to run healer. There aren’t enough heals on staff to make it viable, though with the coming update being a designated crowd control may be very viable though you would be relegated to a heavily support roll (at least the way I’m thinking a build might look)

All the Ele staff hate is really unwarranted, I think people just don’t understand how to play it because it is so different from the quick in and out if d/d or weapon builds and doesn’t have the attack variety that s/d or s/f does.

Im gonna play dungeons, and zerging with it (im not a metaish guy)

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

The only viable build with the staff is support/healing.

Besides anyone who thought “dps all the way” left ele a long time ago.

Thats funny, because Ele is #1 dps in PvE.

Ele is great
except when the target can dodge and hit back. ie PvP

Molch.2078:

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

The only viable build with the staff is support/healing.

Besides anyone who thought “dps all the way” left ele a long time ago.

Thats funny, because Ele is #1 dps in PvE.

Ele is #3 but it’s a pretty close call.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Molch.2078:

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

The only viable build with the staff is support/healing.

Besides anyone who thought “dps all the way” left ele a long time ago.

Thats funny, because Ele is #1 dps in PvE.

Ele is #3 but it’s a pretty close call.

With or without FGS?

when you think of a staff ele you think of massive aoe capabilities. which is why they are perfect for zergs. I do staff ele as support. I run cleric armor and gear as the aoe healing is by far the most useful on staff ele besides the static field. I run 0-10-10-20-30 taking auras grant swiftness when applied, protection on auras in earth, cd on water abilities and cantrips have cds. then arcana is basic attunement bonuses, larger staff aoe and dodge roll evasive arcana. utility is arcane wave for blast finisher, armor of earth and mf. you can spike up your dmg output on staff ele being a healer too! so you get the best of both worlds. simply use earth 2 into fire field 2 and arcane blast the fire field and throw down a pretty mean meteor shower! also if you use battle sigil you get more might.(I will sometimes troll and get a few ele friends together and we coordinate might stacking, so we will pull of 25 stacks easily (with battle sigil and might stacking via earth into fire you can get yourself to a sustained 16 stacks of might. when timed properly you can hit 19 stacks by yourself that’s without might duration buffs runes.) and incinerate a large portion of zergs with coordinated meteor showers [ you see the enemy zerg either melt in that area of the gather meteor shower or them falling back meaning a push for your zerg. and if a zerg is able to push into the other that usually means a win. not always but usually), and or throwing the meteor shower on tower/keeps we are trying to take ahold of. rofl) but the auras giving speed and protection is mainly for throwing down the ice field from water and arcane waving it in zerg fight ( also a cool and fun way to give speed when traveling with your zerg from camp to towers etc etc ). so all in all ele has many capibilites as staff esp as a support healer. you can still deal tons of dmg while staying tanky, which is why water eles are so popular. I see so many bad staff eles that simply throw does aoes but don’t know to combo or build the staff ele to get the utmost best potential out of a staff. ill see some staff eles throw down meteor shower with like zero stacks of might. which is fine but if you stack your own might, its fun todo and you increased your dmg. I hope I helped I play on T1 na BG any qs always message me in game

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Molch.2078:

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

The only viable build with the staff is support/healing.

Besides anyone who thought “dps all the way” left ele a long time ago.

Thats funny, because Ele is #1 dps in PvE.

Ele is #3 but it’s a pretty close call.

Is there any class that can deal more than 14k dps ?

Molch.2078:

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

The only viable build with the staff is support/healing.

Besides anyone who thought “dps all the way” left ele a long time ago.

Thats funny, because Ele is #1 dps in PvE.

No, thats warrior your thinking of. Their 100 blades pretty much hold the highest dps count.
Note: Not sure if the 26k dps is still possible for 100 blades or not (never pays much attention to other class nerfs)

Chaotic Storm.2815:

Molch.2078:

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

The only viable build with the staff is support/healing.

Besides anyone who thought “dps all the way” left ele a long time ago.

Thats funny, because Ele is #1 dps in PvE.

No, thats warrior your thinking of. Their 100 blades pretty much hold the highest dps count.
Note: Not sure if the 26k dps is still possible for 100 blades or not (never pays much attention to other class nerfs)

You don’t really know what dps means, do you? Warrior are quite average for damage dealing in PvE.

Molch.2078:

Chaotic Storm.2815:

Molch.2078:

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

The only viable build with the staff is support/healing.

Besides anyone who thought “dps all the way” left ele a long time ago.

Thats funny, because Ele is #1 dps in PvE.

No, thats warrior your thinking of. Their 100 blades pretty much hold the highest dps count.
Note: Not sure if the 26k dps is still possible for 100 blades or not (never pays much attention to other class nerfs)

You don’t really know what dps means, do you? Warrior are quite average for damage dealing in PvE.

DD and DPS are two different things.

Damage dealer would refer to burst damage, high spike damage but low damage output in that downtime.

Damage per second is the classes ability to constantly deal a set amount of damage with low or non existent downtime.

That high downtime the ele has on damage dealing abilities kills ele in WvW and PvP in a larger group. Eles only do good 1v1 and PvE, and with more and more things becoming immune to conditions which kills half our damage (and no extra damage in a party anyway since everyone bleeds), Ele is quickly becoming an obsolete class. It already has no place in dungeons or world bosses, and is only good for support elsewhere. Even if you wanted to argue FGS makes it better, it’s really not worth the 3 minute cooldown for 30 seconds of increased damage. I can understand the other elites having a very high cooldown, they’re there to save you in a pinch, but the FGS cooldown would need to be lowered before it’s even considered as a serious weapon for ele

If you’re pumping out more dps than a warrior, then he’s doing it wrong, very, very wrong.

Zelyhn.8069:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Molch.2078:

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

The only viable build with the staff is support/healing.

Besides anyone who thought “dps all the way” left ele a long time ago.

Thats funny, because Ele is #1 dps in PvE.

Ele is #3 but it’s a pretty close call.

Is there any class that can deal more than 14k dps ?

Mesmer and thief. Ele without bloodlust stacks with either staff or LH is about 13k, thief hits about 13.5k so long as he has the initiative to maintain a backstab rotation, and mesmer with 3 Duelists or Swordsmen is about 14.5k. This is averaged over the length of any given duration without using FGS, with FGS the ele is god. Then again, so is anyone else holding the other FGS you put down.

Chaotic Storm.2815:

Molch.2078:

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

The only viable build with the staff is support/healing.

Besides anyone who thought “dps all the way” left ele a long time ago.

Thats funny, because Ele is #1 dps in PvE.

No, thats warrior your thinking of. Their 100 blades pretty much hold the highest dps count.
Note: Not sure if the 26k dps is still possible for 100 blades or not (never pays much attention to other class nerfs)

See: Lava Font

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Molch.2078:

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

The only viable build with the staff is support/healing.

Besides anyone who thought “dps all the way” left ele a long time ago.

Thats funny, because Ele is #1 dps in PvE.

Ele is #3 but it’s a pretty close call.

Theorycrafted DPS is close to worthless. Theorycrafted DPS versus a 100% immobile target is even more close to worthless.

mjharrison.3209:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Molch.2078:

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

The only viable build with the staff is support/healing.

Besides anyone who thought “dps all the way” left ele a long time ago.

Thats funny, because Ele is #1 dps in PvE.

Ele is #3 but it’s a pretty close call.

Theorycrafted DPS is close to worthless. Theorycrafted DPS versus a 100% immobile target is even more close to worthless.

Warriors also require an immobile target in order to deal their maximum damage.

Theorycraft only help us to measure what we do. These dps numbers are actually noticed in-game, but only the maths can confirm what we see since there is not dps meter in-game.

Sometimes we do mistakes in our calculations, but it does not happen that often

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

Molch.2078:

Chaotic Storm.2815:

Molch.2078:

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

The only viable build with the staff is support/healing.

Besides anyone who thought “dps all the way” left ele a long time ago.

Thats funny, because Ele is #1 dps in PvE.

No, thats warrior your thinking of. Their 100 blades pretty much hold the highest dps count.
Note: Not sure if the 26k dps is still possible for 100 blades or not (never pays much attention to other class nerfs)

You don’t really know what dps means, do you? Warrior are quite average for damage dealing in PvE.

DD and DPS are two different things.

Damage dealer would refer to burst damage, high spike damage but low damage output in that downtime.

Damage per second is the classes ability to constantly deal a set amount of damage with low or non existent downtime.

That high downtime the ele has on damage dealing abilities kills ele in WvW and PvP in a larger group. Eles only do good 1v1 and PvE, and with more and more things becoming immune to conditions which kills half our damage (and no extra damage in a party anyway since everyone bleeds), Ele is quickly becoming an obsolete class. It already has no place in dungeons or world bosses, and is only good for support elsewhere. Even if you wanted to argue FGS makes it better, it’s really not worth the 3 minute cooldown for 30 seconds of increased damage. I can understand the other elites having a very high cooldown, they’re there to save you in a pinch, but the FGS cooldown would need to be lowered before it’s even considered as a serious weapon for ele

If you’re pumping out more dps than a warrior, then he’s doing it wrong, very, very wrong.

We can argue about words all day, but in PvE (and if you haven’t noticed yet, thats all I am talking about) Elementalist has both higher burst and sustained damage than a warrior. Warrior 40k 100b, 20k ww, ~30k axechain is not much compared to an elementalist.

… with FGS the ele is god…

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

DD and DPS are two different things.

Damage dealer would refer to burst damage, high spike damage but low damage output in that downtime.

Damage dealer means ‘someone that specializes in dealing damage’. What you’re describing is ‘burst damage’ or ‘spike damage’.

Damage per second is the classes ability to constantly deal a set amount of damage with low or non existent downtime.

Damage per second is the damage dealt by something during a longer period (say, th entire fight) and the averaged out per second.

That high downtime the ele has on damage dealing abilities kills ele in WvW and PvP in a larger group.

Wrong, you just have to learn to cope in the meantime.

Eles only do good 1v1 and PvE, and with more and more things becoming immune to conditions which kills half our damage (and no extra damage in a party anyway since everyone bleeds), Ele is quickly becoming an obsolete class.

Wrong. We can do just fine without conditions.

It already has no place in dungeons or world bosses, and is only good for support elsewhere.

Wrong. World bosses get hit by all the meteors from Meteor Shower and Ice Bow. The damage they deal is insane. Try the burrows in Ascalonian Catacombs and you’ll see what kind of effects those spells have on structure-like targets.

Even if you wanted to argue FGS makes it better, it’s really not worth the 3 minute cooldown for 30 seconds of increased damage.

Wrong. A single use lasts for 60 seconds and you get 2 of them. That’s a 65% uptime. However, this alone shows that you’ve no idea what you’re talking about.

I can understand the other elites having a very high cooldown, they’re there to save you in a pinch, but the FGS cooldown would need to be lowered before it’s even considered as a serious weapon for ele

Wrong. Learn to use it properly.

If you’re pumping out more dps than a warrior, then he’s doing it wrong, very, very wrong.

Wrong. Lightning Hammer has been proven to outperform or at least match warrior dps under the right circumstances.

EDIT: And with dps I mean dps under the commonly accepted definition, not yours.

Please help me chooce somthing instead of discussing who does most damage. Thank for the help so far!

Big Tower.5423:

Please help me chooce somthing instead of discussing who does most damage. Thank for the help so far!

dps – whatever that means.

Are you good at dodging? go daggers
If you are bad at dodging then go scepter or staff
You can fulfil any role with any weapon

My advice is to take daggers because you will have to learn how to dodge anyway

Daggers if you like close range.
Scepter/Dagger if you like range but not complex gameplay.
Staff if you like very complex gameplay through the use of combo fields and finishers. Be advised that you’ll have to master them perfectly to be truly powerful though, and even then people will not notice what you do. They just claim warriors outperform you. But it can be fun, if that’s your style of play.

Big Tower.5423:

Please help me chooce somthing instead of discussing who does most damage. Thank for the help so far!

We’re saying that if you want to play ele, go DPS because ele is king of DPS. But other people are disputing that and saying it isn’t true. Up to you who you want to believe but just know that warrior is definitely NOT king of DPS. They’re, like, third from the bottom on the DPS tier list.

Well we cant choose for you but here is what I am doing.

Build:
Fire/Air/Earth/Water/Arcana
20/10/25/15/0

Fire: Lava Tomb, Internal Fire
Air: Bolt to the Heart
Earth: Stones Splinters, Earth Embrace (May switch to Geomancers Alacrity after next patch)
Water: Vital Striking

Heal: Ether Renewal
Skills: Signet of Air, Mist Form, Cleansing fire (Armor of Earth)
Elite: Tornado

Weapon: Beserker of Bloodlust, Dire of Doom, Dire of Battle
Armor: Runes of Perplexity, Mixture of Dire and Soldier
Trinkets: Mixture of Dire and Soldier
Buff: Lemongrass/ Crystals (condition dmg)

Damage:
+10% damage (earth 25 – enduring dmg when endurance 100%)
+10% damage (vital striking)
+10% damage (Internal fire – when in fire attunement)
+10% damage (Stones Splinters – within 600 of opponent)
+20% damage (Bolt to the heart – when opponents health <33%)
+33% damage (Lava Tomb – when down)
1100-1300ish condition damage
Interrupts opponent – confusion 10secs (Rune of Perplexity)
1650 power without Bloodlust and Might.

Survivability:
I recently switched to dire (named) mixture and runes of perplexity so exotic armor.
1700ish toughness (2700 armor)
1700ish vitality (18k-20k health – 3 more wvw ranks and then 18k-22k health)
Condition removal – ether renewal and cleansing fire
Stun removal – signet of air, mist form
Lava tomb – provides rally
Movement – signet of air, Zephyrs speed

Healing:
Minimal (only +150 healing power)
Water 15

You’re specced for direct DPS but you’re wearing Dire gear?

How did “Mixture of Dire and Soldier” get confused for “wearing Dire gear?”

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/elementalist/?1.0|6.1c.h4.0.0.0|0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0|1q.71p.1q.71p.1c.71p.1q.71p.1c.71p.1q.71p|1q.62.1c.62.1c.62.1q.62.1q.62.1c.62|k16.a6.p36.f6.0|2i.1|1l.24.1v.1t.2a|e

Staff’s major trait is that it’s awkward! >.>;

Anyway…

For PvE Staff for Dungeons: http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/85568-lh-is-the-new-bearbow-the-real-staff-dps-build-for-manly-men/

For WvW for Organized Raids: http://intothemists.com/guides/guide.php?id=107

What staff elementalist excels best at is sharing his/her own skills with allies through combo fields.

The staff elementalist has more fields on weapon skills then any other build/class, and has the most variety in different fields (ice, water, fire, lightning) on 1 weapon.

I like WvW a lot, and my combo fields are an important part of my role in WvW. I got no problem in PvE, and by smart use of skills i can make the entire group function more effectively.

Besides the mechanics of combo fields, in general the staff has some neat abilities that lets you control the battle from range while doing damage.

Im excited on the coming changes (upgrades) to staff :P

Jarek.2430:

How did “Mixture of Dire and Soldier” get confused for “wearing Dire gear?”

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/elementalist/?1.0|6.1c.h4.0.0.0|0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0|1q.71p.1q.71p.1c.71p.1q.71p.1c.71p.1q.71p|1q.62.1c.62.1c.62.1q.62.1q.62.1c.62|k16.a6.p36.f6.0|2i.1|1l.24.1v.1t.2a|e

You’re specced for direct DPS but you’re wearing soldier gear?

Maybe he likes having good hp and armor. Did you ever consider that? Hmmm?
Seriously though, precision is mediocre at best unless you have a lot of crit damage, and crit damage is obviously useless unless you have a lot of precision (or are a thief with that 100% crit in stealth trait). If you want to have a lot of toughness and vitality, your best bet for damage is just straight up power. And then where you can’t get power, condition damage. You won’t have enough stats left after your tough/vit to make crits worthwhile.

Thank you guys for the input, i think il go full healer/utlity for both pve and wvwvw (yes i know dps is meta… but im not a speedrun guy :P i wanna save the pugs xD

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Jarek.2430:

How did “Mixture of Dire and Soldier” get confused for “wearing Dire gear?”

http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/elementalist/?1.0|6.1c.h4.0.0.0|0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0|1q.71p.1q.71p.1c.71p.1q.71p.1c.71p.1q.71p|1q.62.1c.62.1c.62.1q.62.1q.62.1c.62|k16.a6.p36.f6.0|2i.1|1l.24.1v.1t.2a|e

You’re specced for direct DPS but you’re wearing soldier gear?

Yes I did and yes I am. However, 1 more wvw rank I will be switching out soldier pieces for Knight.

reikken.4961:

Maybe he likes having good hp and armor. Did you ever consider that? Hmmm?
Seriously though, precision is mediocre at best unless you have a lot of crit damage, and crit damage is obviously useless unless you have a lot of precision (or are a thief with that 100% crit in stealth trait). If you want to have a lot of toughness and vitality, your best bet for damage is just straight up power. And then where you can’t get power, condition damage. You won’t have enough stats left after your tough/vit to make crits worthwhile.

If you’re going to wear soldier’s gear you might as well just drop trying to DPS altogether and go shout heals or something. Mix it with Clerics or Magi or something.

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

The only viable build with the staff is support/healing.

Besides anyone who thought “dps all the way” left ele a long time ago.

Oh boy here we go.

Now we’re going to get the theoretical DPS guys coming out throwing out theoretical numbers they calculated on paper but have absolutely no way to prove how much they are actually doing in game due to movement, positioning, boss mechanics or otherwise.

Thanks a lot.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

If you’re going to wear soldier’s gear you might as well just drop trying to DPS altogether and go shout heals or something. Mix it with Clerics or Magi or something.

why? It’s not like wearing full berserker’s increases damage by 500% over soldier’s. The soldier’s guy is still going to about 65% as much damage.
before considering the part where ability to do damage without dying translates into more damage

Kodiak.3281:

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

The only viable build with the staff is support/healing.

Besides anyone who thought “dps all the way” left ele a long time ago.

Oh boy here we go.

Now we’re going to get the theoretical DPS guys coming out throwing out theoretical numbers they calculated on paper but have absolutely no way to prove how much they are actually doing in game due to movement, positioning, boss mechanics or otherwise.

Thanks a lot.

“Theoretical”

Kodiak.3281:

Big Tower.5423:

Thank you guys for the input, i think il go full healer/utlity for both pve and wvwvw (yes i know dps is meta… but im not a speedrun guy :P i wanna save the pugs xD

Don’t even worry about it man.

You could go in and do dungeons in white gear level 80 with zero stats or even any traits spent and provided you’re skilled enough to not flop over dead you can pretty much pull anything off and no one will ever say a word.

No one is going to call you out on your DPS or how you play because the truth is no one in game has any way to prove factually that one person is doing more DPS than another. They can calculate it all theoretically about what you should be doing to theoretically get the maximum DPS but since no one can actually check if you’re doing maximum DPS or even no DPS it doesn’t matter.

Sounds like you want to do support, go that route and if any one gives you any guff (not that I’ve ever had anyone question anything I’m doing in dungeons over the course of 100’s of PUG dungeons) just tell them to mind their business.

Congratulations! You just won the 2013 award for worse advice of the year!

Zelyhn.8069:

Congratulations! You just won the 2013 award for worse advice of the year!

Wait, telling him not to worry about what people say about him in a videogame is bad advice?

Gw2 pve is so kitten easy that what he said is true. Casual player does not need to care overly much about how minmaxed his build is. As long as he can decently play his character, he could as well throw trait points around randomly and wear any gear he happened to find.

Strang.8170:

Wait, telling him not to worry about what people say about him in a videogame is bad advice?

Gw2 pve is so kitten easy that what he said is true. Casual player does not need to care overly much about how minmaxed his build is. As long as he can decently play his character, he could as well throw trait points around randomly and wear any gear he happened to find.

Exactly, only thing that matters in pve is getting gold rewards medal and chest and you can do it even while being naked and without traits.

Zelyhn.8069:

Congratulations! You just won the 2013 award for worse advice of the year!

Actually you’re a shoe in for the award for trying to create an ultra elitist environment where if anything you attempt to do isn’t what you think is the theoretically maximum DPS they can do then they are bad and should feel bad.

The irony of the situation is you can’t even actually prove those are the numbers you are actually doing in game. You can only take the numbers that are given to you and calculate them in a spreadsheet but have no way of proving that on boss X in game you did Y DPS.

The only difference here is I’m willing to be up front and be honest about there’s no way to prove how much DPS you are doing in game and you refuse to see it.

haviz.1340:

Strang.8170:

Wait, telling him not to worry about what people say about him in a videogame is bad advice?

Gw2 pve is so kitten easy that what he said is true. Casual player does not need to care overly much about how minmaxed his build is. As long as he can decently play his character, he could as well throw trait points around randomly and wear any gear he happened to find.

Exactly, only thing that matters in pve is getting gold rewards medal and chest and you can do it even while being naked and without traits.

Yea I really don’t get it myself. I’ve cleared all the content in the game on a variety of classes in a variety of gear and almost never had problems. The “almost” usually is more people not having any clue what they need to do (IE: not knowing about fractal mechanics) than anyone being low DPS, not playing “correctly” or being a particular class.

I mean most of the time people you run into game, a large % of the population don’t even visit the game forums (which is true in any game). I see Support Elementalists in dungeons all the time and we have problems clearing the content. Nor do I feel some compulsive need to harp on them and tell them, “Well you know if you spec’d and played like this our dungeon run would have gone 0.0001% faster and smoother!” especially when there’s absolutely zero way to prove it.

In a good group, everyone should be contributing about 15-25% damage per player, depending on the specific role you are playing. That’s a pretty noticeable difference if you’re midway through a dungeon, some guy drops, and you add a pug and your DPS goes down 20%.

Also, there are pretty good indicators that everyone can see, such as, you know, the ele being in water atturnement all the time and just sitting at1200 range casting Ice Spike.