Guild Wars 2

Zelyhn.8069:

Kodiak.3281:

Big Tower.5423:

Thank you guys for the input, i think il go full healer/utlity for both pve and wvwvw (yes i know dps is meta… but im not a speedrun guy :P i wanna save the pugs xD

Don’t even worry about it man.

You could go in and do dungeons in white gear level 80 with zero stats or even any traits spent and provided you’re skilled enough to not flop over dead you can pretty much pull anything off and no one will ever say a word.

No one is going to call you out on your DPS or how you play because the truth is no one in game has any way to prove factually that one person is doing more DPS than another. They can calculate it all theoretically about what you should be doing to theoretically get the maximum DPS but since no one can actually check if you’re doing maximum DPS or even no DPS it doesn’t matter.

Sounds like you want to do support, go that route and if any one gives you any guff (not that I’ve ever had anyone question anything I’m doing in dungeons over the course of 100’s of PUG dungeons) just tell them to mind their business.

Congratulations! You just won the 2013 award for worse advice of the year!

I agree, Zelhyn. This is perhaps one of the absolute worst ways to look at group content, and is the exact reason why PUGing often turns out so badly. “No one can see what I’m doing, so it doesn’t matter what I do as long as I can leech off the group” is what I read from this.

Neko.9021:

I agree, Zelhyn. This is perhaps one of the absolute worst ways to look at group content, and is the exact reason why PUGing often turns out so badly. “No one can see what I’m doing, so it doesn’t matter what I do as long as I can leech off the group” is what I read from this.

PUG runs turn bad when people don´t either know how to play their class or are ignorant of encounters mechanics, and nobody instructs them (swearing in all caps is not instructing).
The game is built so that no matter your gear, no matter your traits, if you have any knowledge of how to play your class and the dungeon etc you´re in, you will contribute.

Strang.8170:

Neko.9021:

I agree, Zelhyn. This is perhaps one of the absolute worst ways to look at group content, and is the exact reason why PUGing often turns out so badly. “No one can see what I’m doing, so it doesn’t matter what I do as long as I can leech off the group” is what I read from this.

PUG runs turn bad when people don´t either know how to play their class or are ignorant of encounters mechanics, and nobody instructs them (swearing in all caps is not instructing).
The game is built so that no matter your gear, no matter your traits, if you have any knowledge of how to play your class and the dungeon etc you´re in, you will contribute.

Except when you have no DPS, yeah.

Neko.9021:

I agree, Zelhyn. This is perhaps one of the absolute worst ways to look at group content, and is the exact reason why PUGing often turns out so badly. “No one can see what I’m doing, so it doesn’t matter what I do as long as I can leech off the group” is what I read from this.

Again, I’ve done hundreds of PUGs on all varieties of game content and if our group fails it’s due to people not knowing boss mechanics or are so terribly bad that they die in the first 30 seconds of a fight. The later usually happens when someone who shouldn’t be following some elitist full glass cannon “maximum dps” build advice is attempting to follow it and dies in the first 15 seconds of the fight.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

In a good group, everyone should be contributing about 15-25% damage per player, depending on the specific role you are playing. That’s a pretty noticeable difference if you’re midway through a dungeon, some guy drops, and you add a pug and your DPS goes down 20%.

Also, there are pretty good indicators that everyone can see, such as, you know, the ele being in water atturnement all the time and just sitting at1200 range casting Ice Spike.

There’s absolutely no way to measure that 20% though. You can assume it’s down 20% because you think it is but reality could be is that the person who dropped was boosting everyone else’s DPS by a certain amount and the new PUG is actually topping the DPS compared to the rest of you now. The fact is there’s no way to know.

All you have is blind assumptions based on theories you crafted on a spreadsheet.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Except when you have no DPS, yeah.

It´s impossible not to do any dps no matter what gear/build you run if you even remotely can handle your character.

Kodiak what you are saying is that people should simply appear active enough not to be kicked in a group and get carried until they get the rewards.
This is a disgustingly selfish statement.
For one, if everybody followed your advice no group would ever accomplish anything.
You are telling people “guys, be bad, others will be good for you and in the end we all get the same rewards”. Well what if people didn’t want to be bad, Kodiak? What if people actually wanted to have fun by achieving something and feeling potent, no just being animation jukeboxes? I think you are terribly misconceiving the community.

You think of me as an ultra elitist. I find this very amusing. The truth is that I am indeed a fervent supporter of efficiency. But I look for efficiency in all things, like fun, not just speed of execution. So I am perfectly fine with people playing the way they want. Actually I encourage everyone to do so! But I will always promote efficiency, what ever the way people choose to play. In fact if you look at my guide, two of the three builds I mainly talk about have supportive traits. I believe most peole want to improve. I respect those who don’t for as long as they are conscious of their choice. So all the advice I give is “do the things you want to do as well as you could do them”. I am quite sure this approach is more desirable than your “wave you arms around until the final chest” point of view.

Your comments are simply destructive for this community.

To reiterate what I said was: No one has any way to prove how much DPS anyone is actually doing in game. I could go into a group with white gear and no traits selected and we’ll still complete the content. Min-maxing DPS doesn’t matter long as the content gets done.

What was understood was: Omg this guy is telling people to go into dungeons with white gear and leech off groups with no traits selected!

I can’t fix a lack of reading comprehension.

Oh and community? What we have on the Elementalist forums is a group of people who hate the Elementalist yet still hang around these forums complaining about Ride the Lightning and another group of people who seem to have made it their personal crusade to make sure everyone plays their way because they feel it’s the only way to play the game. Most others have simply stopped coming here and simply enjoy themselves in game and ignore the Elementalist forums because of those two groups of trolls that have made their home here on the Ele Forums.

I will go full cleric, staff ele perhaps some celestial

Sure, I may lack reading comprehension Kodiak …
But the one thing you are definitely not saying is that people should care about their team mates in groups and try their best to achieve what they aim to do in order to have fun together and enjoy the game.

As for your vision of the community, you are wrong. There are many people who come on these forums and they simply don’t post anything, they just read.

I am pretty sure these people value the pieces of advice that tell them how to achieve more in-game, rather than those who tell them to faceroll their builds and gameplay.

The fact that some people could finish most content without thinking about what they do is irrelevant. People do not come on this forum asking for this, they come here in order to learn how to perform better. Maybe you should learn how to respect them.

Big Tower.5423:

I will go full cleric, staff ele perhaps some celestial

Sounds good man

Have fun with it. Don’t worry too much about these Spreadsheetamentalists on these forums who tell you to play their way or you’re wrong. You’ll contribute just fine to a group.

Thanks! Gl further, may we cross again

Zelyhn.8069:

The fact that some people could finish most content without thinking about what they do is irrelevant. People do not come on this forum asking for this, they come here in order to learn how to perform better. Maybe you should learn how to respect them.

No the facts are the original poster came in and said:

1. Should I go healer or DPS?
2. Don’t think healing is bad for PvE and tell me to just DPS the entire way.
3. Is Staff better for Healing or Utility?

As usual the lack of reading comprehension kicked in and the Spreadsheetamentalists around here immediately started telling the original poster, who specifically stated don’t tell him to go full DPS, to start going full DPS.

This is why comments like this are destructive to the community. People come here looking for some specific advice, and instead of getting it they get a lecture on how they should be playing X way and if they aren’t then they aren’t helping their group and they should feel bad for not doing so. Who wants a guilt trip every time they come to ask for advice?

People should really learn to read and listen to what people are looking for before you attempt to “help” someone.

Kodiak.3281:

No the facts are the original poster came in and said:

1. Should I go healer or DPS?
2. Don’t think healing is bad for PvE and tell me to just DPS the entire way.
3. Is Staff better for Healing or Utility?

As usual the lack of reading comprehension kicked in and the Spreadsheetamentalists around here immediately started telling the original poster, who specifically stated don’t tell him to go full DPS, to start going full DPS.

This is why comments like this are destructive to the community. People come here looking for some specific advice, and instead of getting it they get a lecture on how they should be playing X way and if they aren’t then they aren’t helping their group and they should feel bad for not doing so. Who wants a guilt trip every time they come to ask for advice?

People should really learn to read and listen to what people are looking for before you attempt to “help” someone.

Finally someone that opposes those elitists. Keep up the good work!

Wow Kodiak, I’m not sure I am the one lacking reading comprehension then!

The only person who said to go DPS is Guanglai.
Which is kind of strange actually because Gaunglai’s build is bad for dps in dungeons :o

The uninterpreted facts are that OP asked what staff excels at.

The majority of the replies told him that staff is either balanced or good for utility/support and other “non elitist” stuff.

And then you jumped in, fully armed with your bias-loaded weapons and ready to slaughter any poor spreadsheet wielder who would dare to show up.

Zelyhn.8069:

Wow Kodiak, I’m not sure I am the one lacking reading comprehension then!

The only person who said to go DPS is Guanglai.
Which is kind of strange actually because Gaunglai’s build is bad for dps in dungeons :o

The uninterpreted facts are that OP asked what staff excels at.

The majority of the replies told him that staff is either balanced or good for utility/support and other “non elitist” stuff.

And then you jumped in, fully armed with your bias-loaded weapons and ready to slaughter any poor spreadsheet wielder who would dare to show up.

It’s okay, the OP got what he needed and another soul was saved from the Spreadsheetamentalists’ destructive advice.

Kodiak.3281:

It’s okay, the OP got what he needed and another soul was saved from the Spreadsheetamentalists’ destructive advice.

Yep, and that happened right before your credibility level reached the Mariana Trench.

In case you didn’t know, we also use spreadsheets to measure heals, damage reduction, and plenty of other “non-elitist non-radioactive” stuff. In fact the spreadsheets are just here to let us know with accuracy what our brain instinctively computes while playing in-game.

Zelyhn.8069:

Yep, and that happened right before your credibility level reached the Mariana Trench.

In case you didn’t know, we also use spreadsheets to measure heals, damage reduction, and plenty of other “non-elitist non-radioactive” stuff. In fact the spreadsheets are just here to let us know with accuracy what our brain instinctively computes while playing in-game.

Whatever you gotta tell yourself to justify spending all your time on Spreadsheets that have no real way of reflecting actual performance in game.

Hey let me spreadsheet the way I want you bloody elitist

Zelyhn.8069:

Hey let me spreadsheet the way I want you bloody elitist

I fully support your right to Spreadsheet.

I don’t support you trying to impose your Spreadsheets on everyone else.

Kodiak.3281:

Zelyhn.8069:

Hey let me spreadsheet the way I want you bloody elitist

I fully support your right to Spreadsheet.

I don’t support you trying to impose your Spreadsheets on everyone else.

You are the only one imposing anything Kodiak

Zelyhn.8069:

You are the only one imposing anything Kodiak

I impose nothing but the imposition that nothing should be imposed.

Quite a paradoxical character

Kodiak.3281:

No one is going to call you out on your DPS or how you play because the truth is no one in game has any way to prove factually that one person is doing more DPS than another. They can calculate it all theoretically about what you should be doing to theoretically get the maximum DPS but since no one can actually check if you’re doing maximum DPS or even no DPS it doesn’t matter.

Wait what? Did GW2 launch last month? Yeah if you only play one or two classes, then you don’t know what to expect of other classes, sure. But thinking you are pulling the wool over everyone’s eyes is a very mistaken position.

If say for a certain reason I advertise for a DPS group for a specific situation (or need more DPS for the group whatever), and you come in with some utility build on low/no DPS, I’m going to spot it in 10secs and brutally kick. Why? because talking about judging based on theory is one thing, which is still just theory, but another thing in the actual game where some people have all the classes leveled and know what to expect from you, know exactly what you are doing, or not doing, and when your heavy attacks are suppose to drop and see the mobs health bar drop and how much. In other words you think all the players are idiots or something? Then stand around in a dungeon and argue over theory? Insta-kick and block.

Anyway, to the OP, it just depends what you are doing. Personally I really like my mix of DD and AOE on my staff fire ele build (fire/earth) in zerker, solid DPS. But in certain situations people find staff water ele useful. Useful sometimes at least, unlike last night where in TA doing the aetherblade path our guildy water ele got frustrated trying to support us while constantly moving. If you are looking for a one build fit’s all, you are looking at the wrong game to do it in, but generally being able to lay out DPS is the safe bet, and a favorite of Anet it seems.

Zelyhn.8069:

Staff has is strong in utility, but its damage is also very significant (in fire).
I would say it is a balanced weapon and a safe start in PvE if you are less experienced

Agreed from a bigginer in pve.

Daywolf.2630:

If say for a certain reason I advertise for a DPS group for a specific situation (or need more DPS for the group whatever), and you come in with some utility build on low/no DPS, I’m going to spot it in 10secs and brutally kick. Why? because talking about judging based on theory is one thing, which is still just theory, but another thing in the actual game where some people have all the classes leveled and know what to expect from you, know exactly what you are doing, or not doing, and when your heavy attacks are suppose to drop and see the mobs health bar drop and how much. In other words you think all the players are idiots or something? Then stand around in a dungeon and argue over theory? Insta-kick and block.

You’re all bravado. You’re mostly likely so preoccupied with what you’re doing to really analyze in real time what all other 4 players are doing in your party and whether or not their attacks are doing what you think they should be doing. You may have your suspicions about people but really you’d have no way of factually telling unless it’s something completely obvious like a mesmer with a Great Sword in melee range.

I’ve personally done more than a few speedrun groups in PVT or Knight’s gear simply linking similar looking Berserker gear in the ol COF days and no one ever told the difference. It’s not that people were “too stupid” to notice, it’s simply a fact of the matter that there’s really no way to notice unless the player is being completely obvious about it.

However pretending that you have some heightened sense of things and can sort out 5 players hitting the same target with a variety of skills and abilities and instantly recall the damage percentage each ability should be doing against any number of bosses in game over the course of milliseconds is just absurd.

Kodiak.3281:

You’re all bravado. You’re mostly likely so preoccupied with what you’re doing to really analyze in real time what all other 4 players are doing in your party and whether or not their attacks are doing what you think they should be doing. You may have your suspicions about people but really you’d have no way of factually telling unless it’s something completely obvious like a mesmer with a Great Sword in melee range.

More theory? Uh no I can quite well do that, thank you. Even if I had to back off and watch for 30secs. But generally, no, I can quite well zoom out the camera and watch what’s going on during my autos, understand the animations of all the classes, their timing, knowledge of their cool downs, keeping an eye on the mobs health. It’s the mobs that are brainless minions, not the players.

edit: and I can even give an easy example anyone would catch, even in a pure PUG. A group in AC, working the spider. They have a diverse group all doing their thing. Got the mobs health down quick, their heavy dps warrior is chugging away with obvious beautiful DPS execution – and suddenly he DC’s, then the party wipes. They wait 5m and he doesn’t come back. So the party kicks him and puts in the LFG: lf1m AC warrior dps only. Then you come in, decked out in white gear, maybe even a 0dps toy sword hehe. Gunna fool them real good, eh? Or even low DPS, they not going to notice? How many wipes until they wonder who is at fault? hehehe. And really, it’s not that complicated. I’ve spotted it in plenty of PUGs over the years, and this game is really rather simplistic.

Daywolf.2630:

More theory? Uh no I can quite well do that, thank you. Even if I had to back off and watch for 30secs. But generally, no, I can quite well zoom out the camera and watch what’s going on during my autos, understand the animations of all the classes, their timing, knowledge of their cool downs, keeping an eye on the mobs health. It’s the mobs that are brainless minions, not the players.

edit: and I can even give an easy example anyone would catch, even in a pure PUG. A group in AC, working the spider. They have a diverse group all doing their thing. Got the mobs health down quick, their heavy dps warrior is chugging away with obvious beautiful DPS execution – and suddenly he DC’s, then the party wipes. They wait 5m and he doesn’t come back. So the party kicks him and puts in the LFG: lf1m AC warrior dps only. Then you come in, decked out in white gear, maybe even a 0dps toy sword hehe. Gunna fool them real good, eh? Or even low DPS, they not going to notice? How many wipes until they wonder who is at fault? hehehe. And really, it’s not that complicated. I’ve spotted it in plenty of PUGs over the years, and this game is really rather simplistic.

Most high DPS groups revolve around melee stacking. You even brought one up in the case of AC Spider where everyone stacks in a corner. You can zoom your camera out all you want but there’s simply no plausible case you can make where you can tell what 5 people are doing. Oh, except when you stop doing your own job and contributing to the group to ensure that everyone else is doing what they’re supposed to be doing. Seems like a real winning strategy there.

As for your scenario, you have no idea what is or isn’t the cause. You can immediately assign blame to the new person for you assuming he’s not fulfilling the same shoes as the last warrior but you have no way of actually telling. It could very well be that the last warrior was carrying your sub-standard group along and the new guy can’t carry your dead weight. I mean that’s what my first take on the scenario where 4 dudes who claimed to be super time DPS couldn’t 4 man an easy boss like Spider.

Even then more realistic scenario (and not the hyperbolic one I used to reinforce my point) is the guy will come in with what you would likely consider to be an inferior spec/gear setup yet between the 5 of you the boss will still die and you will move on in content.

Most games over the years have had some sort of way to measure DPS even if not supported directly in game (mostly through “ACT” which can parse combat logs). This one does not. Unless a player is being completely and totally obvious about playing badly there’s virtually no way to tell.

Someone once told me that you can tell a person’s character based on what they’re doing when no one’s looking (or when they think no one’s looking).

It’s true, no one can see your personal DPS in a group in GW2. But I’ve done dungeons enough to know when we have below-average DPS, and it certainly hurts, especially when you’re playing a glassier character.

The fact that you’re conflating whether people can technically check your DPS as an individual, and whether or not you SHOULD try to do as best damage as you can in whatever way you choose to play, is just a little troubling.

Perhaps you might consider that the advice some people here are giving tries to explain to people how to DO well and become better players, rather than simply how to LOOK like you’re doing well.

Because quite frankly, yes, in any group content, anyone can be a leech, but that doesn’t make it right! ^^;

Kodiak.3281:

Most high DPS groups revolve around melee stacking. You even brought one up in the case of AC Spider where everyone stacks in a corner. You can zoom your camera out all you want but there’s simply no plausible case you can make where you can tell what 5 people are doing. Oh, except when you stop doing your own job and contributing to the group to ensure that everyone else is doing what they’re supposed to be doing. Seems like a real winning strategy there.

As for your scenario, you have no idea what is or isn’t the cause. You can immediately assign blame to the new person for you assuming he’s not fulfilling the same shoes as the last warrior but you have no way of actually telling. It could very well be that the last warrior was carrying your sub-standard group along and the new guy can’t carry your dead weight. I mean that’s what my first take on the scenario where 4 dudes who claimed to be super time DPS couldn’t 4 man an easy boss like Spider.

Even then more realistic scenario (and not the hyperbolic one I used to reinforce my point) is the guy will come in with what you would likely consider to be an inferior spec/gear setup yet between the 5 of you the boss will still die and you will move on in content.

Most games over the years have had some sort of way to measure DPS even if not supported directly in game (mostly through “ACT” which can parse combat logs). This one does not. Unless a player is being completely and totally obvious about playing badly there’s virtually no way to tell.

So you are saying that from my obvious example “a diverse group” you would not have any idea what happened? Or now are we talking only DPS speed groups in cof1 …which btw was nerfed. Oh and you have never wiped at the spider with 4 in the group? So very simple? uh-huh…
And I said – if I had to back off to figure it out, but I’m quite aware of others as I play and still fulfill my role, as I also said. Just like years of running a cleric in EQ1, you learn to not just focus on only what you are doing, but become very knowledgeable of the other classes in play. Toss out the WoW mentality, breath the free air.

Kodiak.3281:

Daywolf.2630:

More theory? Uh no I can quite well do that, thank you. Even if I had to back off and watch for 30secs. But generally, no, I can quite well zoom out the camera and watch what’s going on during my autos, understand the animations of all the classes, their timing, knowledge of their cool downs, keeping an eye on the mobs health. It’s the mobs that are brainless minions, not the players.

edit: and I can even give an easy example anyone would catch, even in a pure PUG. A group in AC, working the spider. They have a diverse group all doing their thing. Got the mobs health down quick, their heavy dps warrior is chugging away with obvious beautiful DPS execution – and suddenly he DC’s, then the party wipes. They wait 5m and he doesn’t come back. So the party kicks him and puts in the LFG: lf1m AC warrior dps only. Then you come in, decked out in white gear, maybe even a 0dps toy sword hehe. Gunna fool them real good, eh? Or even low DPS, they not going to notice? How many wipes until they wonder who is at fault? hehehe. And really, it’s not that complicated. I’ve spotted it in plenty of PUGs over the years, and this game is really rather simplistic.

Most high DPS groups revolve around melee stacking. You even brought one up in the case of AC Spider where everyone stacks in a corner. You can zoom your camera out all you want but there’s simply no plausible case you can make where you can tell what 5 people are doing. Oh, except when you stop doing your own job and contributing to the group to ensure that everyone else is doing what they’re supposed to be doing. Seems like a real winning strategy there.

As for your scenario, you have no idea what is or isn’t the cause. You can immediately assign blame to the new person for you assuming he’s not fulfilling the same shoes as the last warrior but you have no way of actually telling. It could very well be that the last warrior was carrying your sub-standard group along and the new guy can’t carry your dead weight. I mean that’s what my first take on the scenario where 4 dudes who claimed to be super time DPS couldn’t 4 man an easy boss like Spider.

Even then more realistic scenario (and not the hyperbolic one I used to reinforce my point) is the guy will come in with what you would likely consider to be an inferior spec/gear setup yet between the 5 of you the boss will still die and you will move on in content.

Most games over the years have had some sort of way to measure DPS even if not supported directly in game (mostly through “ACT” which can parse combat logs). This one does not. Unless a player is being completely and totally obvious about playing badly there’s virtually no way to tell.

You act like people aren’t going to notice you dropping Ice Spike for the entire fight. Or like your shout heals aren’t healing for 3k a pop, etc.

Molch.2078:

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

The only viable build with the staff is support/healing.

Besides anyone who thought “dps all the way” left ele a long time ago.

Thats funny, because Ele is #1 dps in PvE.

Says who?

Neko.9021:

Perhaps you might consider that the advice some people here are giving tries to explain to people how to DO well and become better players, rather than simply how to LOOK like you’re doing well.

Let me say what you seem to be unwilling to say: “Play our way or you’re a leech on your group.”

Except you know no one would buy that guilt trip so you try to mask it up under the guise of making people “better players.” I ain’t buying it. You have a stickied thread in this forum talking about specs and yet people still come along and ask for build advice. Clearly others aren’t buying it either.

Daywolf.2630:

So you are saying that from my obvious example “a diverse group” you would not have any idea what happened? Or now are we talking only DPS speed groups in cof1 …which btw was nerfed. Oh and you have never wiped at the spider with 4 in the group? So very simple? uh-huh…
And I said – if I had to back off to figure it out, but I’m quite aware of others as I play and still fulfill my role, as I also said. Just like years of running a cleric in EQ1, you learn to not just focus on only what you are doing, but become very knowledgeable of the other classes in play. Toss out the WoW mentality, breath the free air.

Melee DPS stacking is not something specific to COF P1 and the fact you seem to think it is shows how little you actually know about speed running dungeons in this game. It’s used in a large variety of dungeons and encounters. For someone who claims to be all up on game about knowing classes and abilities you’d think you would know that.

Kinda shameful really and establishes how little credibility you have to talk about these matters. Oh wait, I forgot you’re a magic man who can see all in real time. What was I thinking?

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

You act like people aren’t going to notice you dropping Ice Spike for the entire fight. Or like your shout heals aren’t healing for 3k a pop, etc.

And you act like anyone is actually sitting in Water Attunement just spamming Ice Spike let alone advocating that anyone should be doing it. What point are you trying to make?

istariwk.8312:

Molch.2078:

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

The only viable build with the staff is support/healing.

Besides anyone who thought “dps all the way” left ele a long time ago.

Thats funny, because Ele is #1 dps in PvE.

Says who?

Spreadsheets that don’t reflect actual in game DPS.

Only for minion classes.

For every other class, it’s pretty easy to maintain the optimal DPS rotation, and a decent group will be buffing and debuffing appropriately.

Kodiak.3281:

It’s used in a large variety of dungeons and encounters.

Uh-huh, now everyone is stacked, all the time, so obviously I cant tell who is outright lying about their build, ability or gear, and those just there to leech the party. Riiiight….
My ignore list says otherwise.

Neko.9021:

Someone once told me that you can tell a person’s character based on what they’re doing when no one’s looking (or when they think no one’s looking).

Yes, quite true. Though in some situations I think it is detectable, just like a doctor can find cancer even though it may seem hidden. The sad thing here though, it’s what gives the PUG a bad name, and so becomes even harder to find good PUG’s as good honest players get fed up with such players destroying everyone’s fun for their own amusement.

So we stick with guilds and friend lists. It’s harder to carry a lie around with people that may do things with you more often, even doing duo’s and such. So yeah, this is the kind of talk that truly kills the LFG tool for me in so many ways. And it’s a shame, you know?

And I’m not speaking of bad players, or players just too new to the class or content. I’m always quick to say “I’ve never done this before” or “I’m better at doing that than this” or “I can help you do that right” . But you know, some players are big talkers, they never do anything wrong, it’s just you that is wrong and everyone agreeing with you is wrong which too have done it 100 times before with success. I’ve seen it all, 1000’s of groups.

Daywolf.2630:

My ignore list says otherwise.

Your ignore list says a lot of things.

Il just run with ppl that accept a healer

Let’s try this:

Kodiak, when you are in a group you want to perform well don’t you?

Just a simple question, give us a simple answer.

Simple Answer: When I am in a group I want to complete the content. That is my only thought and my only bar to measure performance.

Complex Answer: When I join a PUG, it’s usually because I want the gold/tokens at the end of the run. That’s all I am there for. If I get it done fast or I get it done slow I don’t really care so long as it gets done.

I’ve done countless PUG dungeon groups. In all that time I’ve never had anyone say a word to me on any of my characters and what I am doing or how I play. I’ve also never seen anyone else get called out on what they are doing nor do I call people out on bad form as well. The most obvious of which is Greatsword Mesmers who are in melee range (their Spatial Surge does more dmg at range). Long as we’re able to complete the content I simply don’t care if we could have completed it a few minutes faster.

This is not to imply all PUG groups succeed. I’ve ran plenty of groups where the group just was a total failure and incapable of doing the content. People don’t react by flipping out or blocking each other or any other nonsense, they simply leave the group. Most of the time it’s due to people not knowing the boss mechanics, such as the count to 2 and dodge mechanics of COE 2/3. However the ratio of these fail groups is extremely small compared to the number that succeed. Consequently the number of groups that are “amazing” full DPS groups where everyone is chugging out massive DPS are also relatively small in PUGs (usually because those players form their own groups).

However what it is to say is that, on a vast majority of basis, anyone going in with any spec in a PUG will be able to complete the dungeon content. Big Tower.5423 isn’t going to be incapable of clearing dungeon content because he went healer/support. You certainly can, and will, make the argument that he could contribute to his group more by min-maxing out his DPS. What you fail to grasp however is that playing games is at it’s base a selfish act (we’re playing for our own entertainment) that is ultimately harmless if the content still gets done. Ratcheting up your McCarthy level rhetoric about how we’re “leeches” when you have no way of telling how anyone in the group is actually is doing is absurd. The content still gets done, so who really cares?

Right, so your answer is “you do not care” if you are performing well.

Now, would you say that it is possible that since you “do not care” then others in your group may “not care” just like you?

My answer is I am there to complete the content.

If you choose to infer another answer out of that very simple response I have no control over what crazy conclusions you want to imagine.

Nobel prize to Kodiak!

Please answer the question

I did.

Maybe you can pretend I said something different like you normally do and have an over the top reaction to the thing you imagined I said but that I never actually said?

I ask:
Would you say that it is possible that since you “do not care” then others in your group may “not care” just like you?

You reply:
My answer is I am there to complete the content.

You are not answering the question with this reply

Your question is based off your taking another meaning from my response (I am there to complete the content). Therefore, your question is really to yourself because I can’t answer a question based on how you pretend I responded.

I’ve already answered the question directed at me. If you want to continue to have a conversation with yourself by imagining my response to be something it’s not and then asking questions based on your fantasies of how I responded then I leave you to it.

Zelyhn.8069:

Let’s try this:

Kodiak, when you are in a group you want to perform well don’t you?

Just a simple question, give us a simple answer.

My answer: Yes
Long answer: I bring the best gear I have, and what is expected for doing the content. In fact most of my characters, 8 of my 80’s (all classes), have mostly multiple sets of gear and weapons that I can switch to when needed. Not only that, I leveled all the classes so that if the party is missing a certain element to achieve success, I can be the anchor and fill the role that is needed. I have master crafter to make sure I have access to all available gear and food buffs (food buffs I give freely to those that need them). I know how to play the classes and many various builds. I study the wiki, forums and external sites regarding the classes, builds and tactics for this game and it’s content. I’m watchful and quick to help a player up before death, and am patient when explaining content. I sometimes utilize two commander tags in which I announce content, direct efforts and explain things when warranted. I put out 200% to the effort. Success is not an option.

Re: yes my block list says a lot. I have participated in kicks, group join denials and have spent many hours helping players to better their game with success. But yes, some are just there for tokens or whatever, not to play the game with others, only for themselves. When this happens, it’s clear, leeching or whatnot with no intention for real co-op, no interest in adjustment to the party structure. We kick them. I block them. If you cant say “hello” to me upon joining my group, I scan the list and upon finding your name a vote kick comes up, and most people that regularly play with me don’t hesitate to second it with no explanation needed.

Then Kodiak answer the first question:

When you are in a group do you want to perform well ?

It is strange that it is so hard for you to answer these questions … hmm suspicious

And again my answer is when I am in a group I want to complete content.

It is strange that it’s so hard for you to accept my answer. It’s almost like you’re trying to setup a narrative based on what you presume my response would be. Hmm suspicious.

Since you fail to answer the question properly (is yes/no too hard?) we can try to understand the implications of your political reply:

When you want to complete the content, do you want to perform well?