Guild Wars 2

ok, let me remake it then.
my base idea is to split the staff in 2.
2 elements single target dmg + cc.
2 elements for support/AoE.

1: Fire, should have increased base dmg. 5 – 10 % OR…
Increase dmg on skills and reduce their CDs. and keep the dmg as is on auto.

2: Replace lava font with: Fire Chain. moderate dmg
a skill that will immobilize a target for 2 – 3 seconds, and add Vulnerability 5 stack.

3: replace Flame burst with a High dmg 20 sec cd Fire lance.
Manifest a big burning stake, and shoot at enemy to impale.
1 second stun and add burning.
High speed animation. (like rifle bullets).

4: Keep burning retreat as is.

5: keep the meteor shower as is. (its an icon for the class atm).
but since fire should be direct dmg. and not aoe. reduce dmg on meteor shower
5 – 10 %.

1: Earth.
Increase dmg to match fires.

2: Replace eruption with a channeled Stone shower. same as flamethrower, but this one inflict bleeding. note how ever, its not AoE, its single target, so its abit like mesmers GS attack, but channel 2.5 seconds.

3: replace Magnetic aura with Stone armor/stone shield.
armor/shield that increases thoughness by 400 for 5 seconds.

4: replace unsteady ground with: Soil. AoE. no dmg. medium big circle.
90 % slowing 2 – 3 seconds. (use soil first, then fire chain for a combo).
(but if you combo, you lose your protection, so its your gamble.

5: replace shockwave with: Boulder toss.
Manifest a big boulder from ground.
aim and release. Knockback effect in path. high dmg.. high CD. range 600.
OR.
Replace shockwave with: Ground spike.
A big Spike erupts under the enemy, with impale(stun) effect.
High dmg, High cd. range 600.

AoE time. (this is not my favorite area).

Water:
keep them all as is. BUT.
on: 3 increase AoE circle and healing effect. for stronger support.
on:5 make it a channel skill instead. and increase healing and add a slowing effect for enemies inside.

Air:
keep 1 as is. its auto attack medium/low dmg aoe.

2: replace with a Lightning storm. medium CD. weaker meteor shower from fire but lightning strikes around the ground. it also add a slowing effect on ground.

3: keep as is, but if you target a friendly, randomize: Swiftness or regen.

4: keep as is.

5: change to Stun everyone inside. (not just entering). all inside AoE (max 5).
Pulsing High dmg energy. stun last 1 – 2 seconds. (think 1, or it gets op).

On trait layout:
Fire increases power. (obviously). but also crit dmg.
Earth inrease toughness and precision.
Water increase: healing + vitality.
Air increase Boon duration + reducing elemental atunement cd.
Arcane Increase: Condition dmg + condition duration.

Poorly designed fix and presentation

“Make this, and do this and then make this and some more of that with this on that…”

Be a little more creative and post examples of Skills/Damage ratio

a fix for what problem exactly?

why is everyone trying to fix staff? There’s really nothing wrong with it.

Not only that, but this is the 2nd thread i’ve read where OP insists on fixing staff while having absolutely no understanding of how combo fields/finishers work.

There is nothing wrong with staff period. The only argument that can really be made is that the projectiles move quicker (like fireball for example) to target and/or that some abilities do damage on cast instead of the delay (lava for example).

Any other ‘problems’ with staff is due more to the 5 target limit of AoE than anything else. Sure you can’t viably solo with a staff, but staff isn’t meant to be a solo weapon.

perhaps we want a fix for the staff because its bad/terrible/horrible as it is at the moment.

you can do one thing. guard a keep with meteor rain and place weak lava fonts.
thats about it.

if you want to go pvp. dont use staff. sure, some are using it.
but for most part, using a staff is dragging your team down.
if you get focused, you go down in seconds.

While we have the Boring, ultimate. All in one. supreme…
Dagger / Dagger. (i have played it, its just boring and too overpower).

Why are we thinking staff is weaker ?
because 90 % of elementals play dagger/dagger. and why shouldnt they.. its the supreme specc / weapon. for all situations. wich yet again, make ppl think:
“staff is great, now shut up so you dont nerf our overpower Dagger/Dagger”.

all the other weapons.. beside dagger/dagger, is in a hardcore, insane underdog position.
Some people have “managed” to work things out. but they are still in a serious underdog position when you compare to dagger/dagger in every way.

we have all seen these 1 vs 10+ppl DD vids now.
and its good.. maybe devs have seen them also and start to think..
“wtf, this isnt right, lets nerf hard.”

i DONT want to nerf the DD. i want a working staff and scepter even for ppl that like that.. i want a variation. an option. a freedom to play the weapon i want and not be in a serious underdog position.

but, if you play anything BUT DD, your screwed. kinda…
you can be GOD of staff skills. you still cant compare to a DD. not even close.

The sooner people start helping to get a fix to the staff and the other weapons an elemental have.. the longer you DD people can enjoy your op style.

but, if there is only DD elementals running around, totaly dominating people…
you can be sure you will get a nerf. and a hard one.
None should be able to troll and kill 10+people.
you know it.. devs know it…

everyone should give ideas to the devs to fix elemental weapons.
to open more options.
perhaps that way DD wont get as a big nerf.
(and we all know DD will get nerfed).

covenn.7165:

There is nothing wrong with staff period. The only argument that can really be made is that the projectiles move quicker (like fireball for example) to target and/or that some abilities do damage on cast instead of the delay (lava for example).

Any other ‘problems’ with staff is due more to the 5 target limit of AoE than anything else. Sure you can’t viably solo with a staff, but staff isn’t meant to be a solo weapon.

Staff isnt a solo weapon you say.
DD have pretty good AoE also.. but in melee range. thats it period…
(i smell a DD user, defending his op specc).
nothing wrong with defending your op specc, but instead you should help getting more weapons available to the same level.

so you run around in wvw or pvp.
you have staff on. (bacause you like that weapon, just not the way devs are misshandling it)… and suddenly. you are attacked. you get weapon lockdown.
and are stuck with the inferior staff. congrats, you are now going to die misserably and painfully. and there is realy nothing you can do against it…

Now, if we had weapon swapping. or a working staff, we could still put up a good fight.. then it whouldnt feel so bad to die against 2 enemies.

BUT, if you had your precious DD and get locked into a fight against the same 2 enemies. you whould just laugh… “ohh comon. only 2 of you ? lol…”

Staff is terrible and need a fix. period.

you’ve gotta be trolling now. between your rants and your calling out Covenn, the only person that offered a reasonable adjustment to the staff.

D/D is a great 1v1 weapon, staff is great for group play/support. I’ve been caught in plenty of 1v1s with my staff out, not an ideal situation, but not game over either.

L2P, drop AoEs on yourself and make you enemy walk in them if they want to hit you.

eldain stenlund.4306:

(i smell a DD user, defending his op specc).

Staff is terrible and need a fix. period.

I am going to ignore the rest of your ranting because it is quite difficult to read and just not worth my time until you stop being so angry.

Unfortunately, judging by your comments, you seem to be one of those elementalists that seem to think using a single weapon set is the best way to play the game. Personally, I view this mindset the exact same way I do those that believe staying in a single attunement is the way you should play.

I use Staff, D/D, and once in a while D/F… though I prefer to pretend that I don’t have a focus most of the time (and I am praying for a swirl nerf so I can salvage it). The only thing I don’t use is scepter because I find it inferior to other weapon choices in any situation I find myself in.

I absolutely love my staff and I absolutely destroy people with it. However, in a 1v1 or small man situation, I will have daggers out because they are superior in that situation. I don’t try to make my daggers work in big fights anymore than I try to make my staff work in 1v1 fights. I use the best tool for the job.

You can complain and attack people for having a different opinion than you if it makes you feel better. Me? I absolutely pwn with my staff. No crying about it from me. There is a reason we we regularly wipe 2-3x our number in big fights. It is myself and a couple of our other ele’s using our staves to control the battlefield with AE CC, AE damage, and AE condition removal.

Scrambles.2604:

you’ve gotta be trolling now. between your rants and your calling out Covenn, the only person that offered a reasonable adjustment to the staff.

D/D is a great 1v1 weapon, staff is great for group play/support. I’ve been caught in plenty of 1v1s with my staff out, not an ideal situation, but not game over either.

L2P, drop AoEs on yourself and make you enemy walk in them if they want to hit you.

i have killed alot of staff uses thinking like you do.
“i stand here in my own raining fire so that warrior will not use his GS on me. iam totaly safe, oh ye.. iam the boss now…
Oh wait.. he pull out a rifle. oh hes gonna use that on me as iam a sitting duck in my lovely safe aoe rain”.

Note. everything with a range attack kill a staff user.
and all classes do have range attacks… DOH!!!
(and no, you can not weapon swap to your godly op DD once in combat to save yourself).

i can even burn you with my flamethrower engineer.. outside your lovely self aoe rain.
and i have 450 range on that only…

and a thief whould just jump in and 1 – 2 shot you.
your staff.. remember.

i have killed a ton of other people thinking and following your bad example.
its not working.

Staff is fine in 1vX situations, you just have to know how to use it. I killed 3 roamer Thieves in WvW today by myself with Staff. Sure it’s not as good as D/D in a melee 1vX situation, but it’s certainly not bad. I actually prefer Staff because it actually requires thinking. As a D/D Ele I can charge into a group of 10 players and just Mist Form+Heals if I get low on health, and then I can RTL out of there. Staff requires using the terrain around you. Find a chokepoint and throw all your AoEs in there and you’re bound to obliterate anything standing there.

eldain stenlund.4306:

and a thief whould just jump in and 1 – 2 shot you.
your staff.. remember.

How is this even relevant to the argument? Staff doesn’t get you 1-shot, its your overall stats that is the problem then… And probably your slow reaction time as well.

If you are running a glassy cannon build, don’t blame the staff that you are getting killed in one hit. But then again, you’d be just as dead using D/D.

Donut.6914:

Staff is fine in 1vX situations, you just have to know how to use it. I killed 3 roamer Thieves in WvW today by myself with Staff. Sure it’s not as good as D/D in a melee 1vX situation, but it’s certainly not bad. I actually prefer Staff because it actually requires thinking. As a D/D Ele I can charge into a group of 10 players and just Mist Form+Heals if I get low on health, and then I can RTL out of there. Staff requires using the terrain around you. Find a chokepoint and throw all your AoEs in there and you’re bound to obliterate anything standing there.

People will just dodge through them and get to you in no time

Arheundel.6451:

Donut.6914:

Staff is fine in 1vX situations, you just have to know how to use it. I killed 3 roamer Thieves in WvW today by myself with Staff. Sure it’s not as good as D/D in a melee 1vX situation, but it’s certainly not bad. I actually prefer Staff because it actually requires thinking. As a D/D Ele I can charge into a group of 10 players and just Mist Form+Heals if I get low on health, and then I can RTL out of there. Staff requires using the terrain around you. Find a chokepoint and throw all your AoEs in there and you’re bound to obliterate anything standing there.

People will just dodge through them and get to you in no time

I don’t know if it’s just me or do people not know how to CC people inside AoE fields? Also by putting up AoE fields, if people are automatically want to dodge them, makes them run out endurance faster and gives you more advantage.

Other than that, you don’t need you’re AoE to kill someone with staff. A strategic rotation through the attunements with their AoE fields and CC will put pressure on the target, giving you time to nuke it with single target spells in between.

The biggest different between D/D and Staff is that D/D makes you more mobile and allows you to reset the fights whenever you wish to. However it allows has a lot of “dead time” when you are not attacking your target, unlike the Staff which allows you to put constant pressure. It is true that you cannot handle as big amount of people as with daggers, but in 1v1 situations and small scale fights (say 4v4 or so), it’s still a workable tool.

eldain stenlund.4306:

and a thief whould just jump in and 1 – 2 shot you.
your staff.. remember.

How does simply having a staff out allow a thief two 1-2 shot you? Sounds like you are running around as a glass cannon. That is a horrible idea in W3 when you play the lowest health pool / armor class in the game.

covenn.7165:

eldain stenlund.4306:

and a thief whould just jump in and 1 – 2 shot you.
your staff.. remember.

How does simply having a staff out allow a thief two 1-2 shot you? Sounds like you are running around as a glass cannon. That is a horrible idea in W3 when you play the lowest health pool / armor class in the game.

Thats one of the problems. yes.

Staff is so weak atm. (too much weak AoE skills).
To compensate, you have to build dmg on your gear.

but then again, if you want to survive, you gear have to be:
Healing / vital and thoughness.
How ever, then you are gimping yourself even further on your alrdy weak staff weapon, making yourself more like a pet.

Its my point from start. Staff is badly designed. (its a kitten mess).
(aswell as most traits).
they need to split the staff into 2 fields.

2 elements focus on direct single target dmg.
2 elements focus on AoE and support.

It whould give you as player more options and more variations on builds.

If you want to be an Elemental Wizard. focusing on dealing High single target dmg.
you should be able to have that option.

If you want to be an Elemental Merlin. focusing on Supporting, and AoE.
you should be able to have that option.

Right now, you dont have any option at all. its just a big mess.

eldain stenlund.4306:

Its my point from start. Staff is badly designed. (its a kitten mess).
(aswell as most traits).
they need to split the staff into 2 fields.

2 elements focus on direct single target dmg.
2 elements focus on AoE and support.

It whould give you as player more options and more variations on builds.

If you want to be an Elemental Wizard. focusing on dealing High single target dmg.
you should be able to have that option.

If you want to be an Elemental Merlin. focusing on Supporting, and AoE.
you should be able to have that option.

Right now, you dont have any option at all. its just a big mess.

Dude. This isn’t WoW or any other game. If you don’t like how the class is done, then don’t play it. Your biggest mistake is to compare it with a classic mage class.

The staff already has support, damage, aoe, CC, but accross the attunements.
How is your suggestion is making the Staff more viable with variations? All it does is to lock you into one-two attunements, and if you have to spec into them, then it will just limit the use of other attunements even further.

I can agree that staff may need a slight damage boost or make the projectiles cast faster, but that’’s about it.

Also, you say that AoE is so bad. How is an AoE attunement gonna remove the problem of player avoiding the AoE fields that you so much complain about? It won’t.

paleeshi.1924:

Arheundel.6451:

Donut.6914:

Staff is fine in 1vX situations, you just have to know how to use it. I killed 3 roamer Thieves in WvW today by myself with Staff. Sure it’s not as good as D/D in a melee 1vX situation, but it’s certainly not bad. I actually prefer Staff because it actually requires thinking. As a D/D Ele I can charge into a group of 10 players and just Mist Form+Heals if I get low on health, and then I can RTL out of there. Staff requires using the terrain around you. Find a chokepoint and throw all your AoEs in there and you’re bound to obliterate anything standing there.

People will just dodge through them and get to you in no time

I don’t know if it’s just me or do people not know how to CC people inside AoE fields? Also by putting up AoE fields, if people are automatically want to dodge them, makes them run out endurance faster and gives you more advantage.

Other than that, you don’t need you’re AoE to kill someone with staff. A strategic rotation through the attunements with their AoE fields and CC will put pressure on the target, giving you time to nuke it with single target spells in between.

The biggest different between D/D and Staff is that D/D makes you more mobile and allows you to reset the fights whenever you wish to. However it allows has a lot of “dead time” when you are not attacking your target, unlike the Staff which allows you to put constant pressure. It is true that you cannot handle as big amount of people as with daggers, but in 1v1 situations and small scale fights (say 4v4 or so), it’s still a workable tool.

Using your CC inside your aoe?
I think every ele has already tried that multiple times, what you don’t get it is that you use your long CD “CC” skills to land few dmg skill whose total dmg can be summed up to the same dmg any other class can deal in 1/4 of the time and without using any CC, and about CC .

The d/d set got no “dead times” compared to staff and scepter, you’ve got effective dmg on all attunement low CD CC skills and low CD gap closer/creator, basically it’s with d/d that you can keep constant pressure.
The overly long casting animation of staff allow the opponent to recover quite easily

Once again, there are a lot of people saying that the staff is a support weapon, but no one saying why eles can’t have an effective ranged option for 1v1s. (S/d still requires melee range to be effective.)

@Chaosky : We’ll get there ..They said all professions will get new weapons/styles ..I’m also waiting that day …

But what I would like is for either Staff Water OR Earth to be remade into melee range ….
So that skills 1, 2 and 4 are some Melee-ish AoE/Cone damage ^^

Water :

• 1 – Chain Auto attack, applies Vulnerability with each strike (Freeze on 3rd)
• 2 – Cone Damage + Vulnerability
• 4 – AoE Damage around us + Freeze

or

Earth :

• 1 – Chain Auto attack, applies weakness with each strike (Cripple on 3rd)
• 2 – Cone Damage + Bleeding
• 4 – AoE Damage + Cripple

I would LOVE to smack people on the head with staff
I can’t be the only one, can I ?

paleeshi.

yes. staff do have: cc. support. AoE. and “damage”.
across all the elements. its a kitten mess… give me the option to specialize in what ever i want… cc + support. or AoE + dmg.
I want to be strong in 1 or 2 fields max. not weak in all 4.

and the dmg only comes from one. Fire.
If your plan is to dps/dmg. and you switch out of the fire.
grats. you lost about 50 % dmg..
and now you are also locked out from the only atunement with some dmg.

And iam not talking about wow. never even mentioned that.

How ever..
an elemental IS a mage. its just another name.
Elementalist, Wizard, Sorcerer, Warlock, Magician, Conjurer, Necromancer. etc etc.
Any archetype that can master the energies around the universe.
Is a Mage. (very easy, everyone know this).
They have all just specialized in different areas.
But their common base is: they totaly obliterate their opponent from afar.

what happens when i put this energy bubble inside that person over there, and then rapidly expand it……. *poff oh.. nasty, its raining blood and body parts now all over.

wonder what happens when i guide down a lightning strike on that persons head over there, eletrocuting every living cell in his body.
*ZZzzzzap hmm… he turned into a pile of ash… interesting…

Most common weapons for these archetypes: anything that is light in weight.
Sword, Staff, Scepter, Dagger(not for melee),Sickle.

how ever, staff is the most used weapon of choise.
so that they can hit their apprentices on the head when they mess up.
and also they tend to be a few hundred years old, so they need the support of the staff.

Go ahead and experiment with weapons.
just keep the base line. a mage is a mage. not a warrior.

Ask anyone about a mage.
and you get similar answears. its just as basic as 1 + 1 = 2.

eldain stenlund.4306:

paleeshi.

yes. staff do have: cc. support. AoE. and “damage”.
across all the elements. its a kitten mess… give me the option to specialize in what ever i want… cc + support. or AoE + dmg.
I want to be strong in 1 or 2 fields max. not weak in all 4.

and the dmg only comes from one. Fire.
If your plan is to dps/dmg. and you switch out of the fire.
grats. you lost about 50 % dmg..
and now you are also locked out from the only atunement with some dmg.

And iam not talking about wow. never even mentioned that.

How ever..
an elemental IS a mage. its just another name.
Elementalist, Wizard, Sorcerer, Warlock, Magician, Conjurer, Necromancer. etc etc.
Any archetype that can master the energies around the universe.
Is a Mage. (very easy, everyone know this).
They have all just specialized in different areas.
But their common base is: they totaly obliterate their opponent from afar.

what happens when i put this energy bubble inside that person over there, and then rapidly expand it……. *poff oh.. nasty, its raining blood and body parts now all over.

wonder what happens when i guide down a lightning strike on that persons head over there, eletrocuting every living cell in his body.
*ZZzzzzap hmm… he turned into a pile of ash… interesting…

Most common weapons for these archetypes: anything that is light in weight.
Sword, Staff, Scepter, Dagger(not for melee),Sickle.

how ever, staff is the most used weapon of choise.
so that they can hit their apprentices on the head when they mess up.
and also they tend to be a few hundred years old, so they need the support of the staff.

Go ahead and experiment with weapons.
just keep the base line. a mage is a mage. not a warrior.

Ask anyone about a mage.
and you get similar answears. its just as basic as 1 + 1 = 2.

^ pretty much this.

I dont know why people keep insisting about staff being a pushover, for crying out loud, Gandalf was epic, why cant I have so Gandalfy fun?! The bender of fire and destruction, not the chicken of Mordor.

eldain stenlund.4306:

just keep the base line. a mage is a mage. not a warrior.

Ask anyone about a mage.
and you get similar answears. its just as basic as 1 + 1 = 2.

When did GW2 get a mage profession? It doesn’t show up on the character creation screen for me…..

ShadowKntSDS.3189:

eldain stenlund.4306:

just keep the base line. a mage is a mage. not a warrior.

Ask anyone about a mage.
and you get similar answears. its just as basic as 1 + 1 = 2.

When did GW2 get a mage profession? It doesn’t show up on the character creation screen for me…..

troll these days…
But actually. you have 3 mage professions in gw2 showing on your creation screen.
*Mesmer: Specialize in manifesting energy clones of themselves to lure people.
*Necromancer: Specialize in power to wake up the dead and controling them.
*Elemental: Controll 4 elements to do their destruction/support. fire,earth,water,air.

Even Guardian is a sort of Battle-mage.
heavy armor, wielding bigger weapons, more focused on real battle and not spells.
But they do use spells to support them.. prot-fields. healing-fields etc.

thats why i like my guardian as he is. Because i know he is a sort of battle-mage..
so iam not trying to make him into something else.

But with the elemental.
Iam trying to make people realy see the elemental for what it realy are.
A mage class. and we should be allowed to play it like one.

Right now, our elemental specialist. (our mage).
is kind of the fake mages we have in Las Vegas. no real magic.

>perhaps we want a fix for the staff because its bad/terrible/horrible
> as it is at the moment.

Have you ever considered the option that perhaps you are bad/terrible/horrible at using the staff and you do not understand the basics of combat system in this game?

Lavadiel.6231:

>perhaps we want a fix for the staff because its bad/terrible/horrible
> as it is at the moment.

Have you ever considered the option that perhaps you are bad/terrible/horrible at using the staff and you do not understand the basics of combat system in this game?

“considered that perhaps you are bad/terrible/horrible”
“at staff”

Have you considered that there are plenty of players baseline skills and that maybe staff is also to blame? Have you considered people playing something other than D/D? Have you considered that skill ceiling does not justify weapon’s weaknesses?

Too many considerations to take, and not very nice of you to discard all arguments and say (in a “nicely” done way) l2p. When a large playerbase agrees with something then its most likely that someting is wrong, and it is not neccesarily on the player’s side.

With that said,, until now you havent provide of proof as to how a staff user can bear on its own in a small group or alone, the argument that staff is a suport weapon is getting really old and its mistaken, once again, (and again, and again, and again) we lack the option to say “OH kitten, the zerg broke and now I have a thief on top of me, better change weapons to shake him off” , versatility is about that……versatiliy. Right now staff damage potential is great, is amazing, its supperb, except for that tiny detail that unless you fight those dangerous golems in the mist, you wont be landing 1/4 of the stuff (heck, even MS hits 2-0 times on a afk target)

I would be extremely happy with Staff skills as is, if Anet would just remove the casting delays from all AOE spells. Due to the delay its super easy in PVP to avoid being hit by the red circles.

>Have you considered that there are plenty of players baseline
>skills and that maybe staff is also to blame?

yes I have

>Have you considered people playing something other than D/D?

yes, I play mostly with s/d now (hi end fractals)
I also play thief, warrior, messmer and played ranger.

>Have you considered that skill ceiling does not justify weapon’s weaknesses?

I have

>Too many considerations to take,

no

>When a large playerbase agrees with something
> then its most likely that someting is wrong,

no, totally wrong assumption
because http://youtu.be/z9pD_UK6vGU

We are successful open field because our eles switch to staff before large fights. It allows us to wipe equal numbers without fail and up to 2-3x our numbers the vast majority of the time. In fact, we demand that our eles switch to staff for large engagements because of how huge of an impact it has in these fights.

If you don’t understand how crippling, stunning, and freezing your enemies while doing heavy AE damage spikes can shape and dominate a large fight, then you missing some perspective. Not only that, our ability to remove conditions on ourselves and our allies in the days of people confusion bombing is game changing by itself.

I really don’t know what to tell you people that complain about staff, because I use to to great effect while having a huge amount of survivability because I can stay at range and use positioning. Even if I screw up and let people get on me, between lightning flash and mist form, it doesn’t matter 99.9% of the time because by the time I use my escape tools, my CC is back up if it was down. I don’t even have to run cleansing fire, armor of earth, etc in my third util slot most of the time like I do when I am using daggers. I can opt for something else to help my team win large engagements like radiation field (mostly) or glyph of storms in earth attunement (if we are missing our necros) for the blind field.

I run full PTV gear with beryl’s in my trinket/back/neck slots. Full stacks, food, and auras (counting them cause they are always up)… I keep over 20k health, over 1600 toughness, over 3100 attack power, 54% crit, and 55% crit damage (approx). While I dont hit as hard as a ele in zerker gear due to all the extra crit damage they have, I still hit hard and do vastly more damage over the length of a fight because I can sustain it longer.

Really. Nothing is wrong with staff aside from maybe increasing projectile speed and having some of the fields do damage when laid down (though that one may be borderline OP)

However, as I said before…. I would not use staff in PvP, havoc, 1v1, or any other small man engagements. It isn’t designed for those situations and d/d is vastly superior.

covenn.7165:

However, as I said before…. I would not use staff in PvP, havoc, 1v1, or any other small man engagements. It isn’t designed for those situations and d/d is vastly superior.

yes, we have all seen this now.
Staff should be Support role only… i realy do NOT agree.

nr1 we dont have weapon swap, stuck in staff or DD. in wrong situation. your screwed.
nr2 What if we dont want to be stuck in a support role the second we switch to a staff.

I want my elemental to be able to specialize in range dmg. NOT only support.
I dont want to stay at range, using only support skills.
YEY i can use my “enter-any-aoe-here”. wich none will ever stand still in.
hell. not even your own team stands still long enough for full effects.

I play a frikkin elemental-mage.
Give me option to get some serious single target range dmg on our staff.
As said before. Split the staff in 2. its very easily made.
and you open up many more options for a staff player. (minimum 4 new ways).
Support / Range dmg.
or a combo of the 2. depending on your elemental specialization and specc.

covenn.7165:

If you don’t understand how crippling, stunning, and freezing your enemies while doing heavy AE damage spikes can shape and dominate a large fight, then you missing some perspective.

Yep, controlling the battlefield via AOE CC is nice, but dont forget its all capped to hit a maximum of 5 enemies. So when the whole 40 man zerg walk right through your static field, 5 enemies are actually stunned while the rest is still chasing you.

Unfortunately all the AOE damage spells have casting delays, so its really simple to avoid for a half-decent player. Try to hit running targets with lava font – nearly impossible.

eldain stenlund.4306:

1. Staff should be Support role only… i realy do NOT agree.

2. nr1 we dont have weapon swap, stuck in staff or DD. in wrong situation. your screwed.

3. What if we dont want to be stuck in a support role the second we switch to a staff.

4. I want my elemental to be able to specialize in range dmg. NOT only support.

5. Give me option to get some serious single target range dmg on our staff.

I will address the numbered portions of your rant only (see above).

1. Staff isn’t only a support role. I wreck people with my staff. We have two different perspectives here, so ask yourself what you may be doing different than me.

2. We don’t have a weapon swap. An out of combat one would be nice, but yeah… Anyways, I don’t get caught with the wrong weapon out ever because I pay attention and do simple things like not running across the map alone with my staff out. Easy.

3. We aren’t stuck in a support role. This is your misconception.

4. I do ranged damage, and a crap ton of it. Not sure why you think it is a support role only.

5. Single target damage is a legit gripe, but the staff isn’t a single target damage weapon by a long shot. It wasn’t designed that way. If you want to do single target ranged DPS and see big numbers, I know a couple of rifle warriors you should talk too….

I think you are doing something wrong to be honest. Whether it is gear, rotations, positioning, how you are traited, or slotted… Hmm, maybe you just picked the wrong class to play? I hit hard when I want to. I group support when I want to. I switch back and forth between both, all the time, and in every large fight.

Lavadiel.6231:

>Have you considered that there are plenty of players baseline
>skills and that maybe staff is also to blame?

yes I have

>Have you considered people playing something other than D/D?

yes, I play mostly with s/d now (hi end fractals)
I also play thief, warrior, messmer and played ranger.

>Have you considered that skill ceiling does not justify weapon’s weaknesses?

I have

>Too many considerations to take,

no

>When a large playerbase agrees with something
> then its most likely that someting is wrong,

no, totally wrong assumption
because http://youtu.be/z9pD_UK6vGU

“totally wrong”

Its called democracy, this game might not be one since we have no power over Anet, but that does not change the fact that there is a very high chance (really high in this case) that we are right. I only see you and a couple more defending staff as it is now, for the rest of us we keep bringing empirical prove that the staff is falling behind, backed up by personal experience. If the only argument you have is “l2p” and “no because no” then you have already lost the fight and right now you are being proudful.

If someone were to prove me wrong I would correct myself, if someone were to show me a video of a staff ele fighting an equally geared and skilled viable non-staff ele profession and winning 3/5 times then I will change my ways, but until the day I dont see people stopping playing D/D mostly because its the “effective” one and when I ask them; “out of D/D and staff, which one would you prefer to have?” and most they answer “D/D by choice” not because staff didnt work out, then I will stop.

Im not saying there arent enough D/D that picked D/D by choice (you definitely being one of them and keep making us know), but vast mayority of us started out with staff, because its what we like, but then we realized that there is no point going staff in anything but WvW raids when D/D does it better, unfortunately. Once again, dont get me wrong, I OVE the D/D gameplay, its refreshing new to MMOs, something that is scary, I just want staff to be the same, not just the underdog underpowered target-me-first weapon.

-Fortus

Fortus.6175:

If someone were to prove me wrong I would correct myself, if someone were to show me a video of a staff ele fighting an equally geared and skilled viable non-staff ele profession and winning 3/5 times then I will change my ways, but until the day I dont see people stopping playing D/D mostly because its the “effective” one and when I ask them; “out of D/D and staff, which one would you prefer to have?” and most they answer “D/D by choice” not because staff didnt work out, then I will stop.

Why use the wrong tool for the job though? You idea of what a staff is obviously does not match up with what the game designers envisioned. They designed staff to be effective against large groups of enemies and likewise designed daggers to excel in small fights.

Look at it this way: You don’t use a screwdriver to hammer in a nail. Can you make it work somewhat? Sure, but it most definitely is not the best tool for the job.

covenn.7165:

Fortus.6175:

If someone were to prove me wrong I would correct myself, if someone were to show me a video of a staff ele fighting an equally geared and skilled viable non-staff ele profession and winning 3/5 times then I will change my ways, but until the day I dont see people stopping playing D/D mostly because its the “effective” one and when I ask them; “out of D/D and staff, which one would you prefer to have?” and most they answer “D/D by choice” not because staff didnt work out, then I will stop.

Why use the wrong tool for the job though? You idea of what a staff is obviously does not match up with what the game designers envisioned. They designed staff to be effective against large groups of enemies and likewise designed daggers to excel in small fights.

Look at it this way: You don’t use a screwdriver to hammer in a nail. Can you make it work somewhat? Sure, but it most definitely is not the best tool for the job.

Indeed, I’ve never seen warriors complaining about the ranged dps of the greatsword.

Our issue isn’t the weapons it’s the traits.

covenn.7165:

Fortus.6175:

If someone were to prove me wrong I would correct myself, if someone were to show me a video of a staff ele fighting an equally geared and skilled viable non-staff ele profession and winning 3/5 times then I will change my ways, but until the day I dont see people stopping playing D/D mostly because its the “effective” one and when I ask them; “out of D/D and staff, which one would you prefer to have?” and most they answer “D/D by choice” not because staff didnt work out, then I will stop.

Why use the wrong tool for the job though? You idea of what a staff is obviously does not match up with what the game designers envisioned. They designed staff to be effective against large groups of enemies and likewise designed daggers to excel in small fights.

Look at it this way: You don’t use a screwdriver to hammer in a nail. Can you make it work somewhat? Sure, but it most definitely is not the best tool for the job.

though your analogy makes sense when put that way, the reality is this; you are in the middle of nowhere, in a road with no people around, your car breaks, in the accident the tools kit falls off a cliff and you dont have choice but to use the the back of the hammer to unscrew something, it is not the right tool indeed, but you have to do since thats all left to be able to survive out there.

Now, in case you didnt get the analogy, i will break it down a bit more; the stuff falling off cliff represents combat, once you have the staff, you cant do anything but deal with it, you werent prepare for it because thats the whole thing about accidents, they just happens. You cant drive wih one hand with a screw driver and the other one a hammer, because who steers the car? Now, the perfect solution would be to have a multipurpose tool, but now you see, in this case since we are an elementalist, we can only use the hammer, while other classes can freely switch between the hammer and the other screw driver they conveniently have on their pocket (weapon switch). As you can see, i can also use analogies and flip the ones you have on your own.

Your mentality is ; “switch weapons” but, here is the part you dont know: We already do. But do I have to stop playing the weapon? Why do I have to run a mile away from the fight and stay there long enough to get out of combat and then open my charcter UI and blind myself for a good couple fo seconds and start looking for a dagger, exposing myself to not being able to equip them both, being vulnerable to attcks and missing my party who kept running ahead and into the fight. Do you catch my drift? There is absolutely no reason as to why we have to go through all this. The whole purpose of having 4 attunements is that an ele would have no need to go through all this; the equivalent of having 2 weapons swaps and more! Right now it does not work like that, and I believe thats how it was intended to be. So stop justifying it, work on improving it, not conforming.

You have to just prepare for upcoming battles by having good awareness. I’ve never been in a situation where I didn’t have time to switch to the correct weapons for the upcoming battle.

covenn.7165:

There is nothing wrong with staff period. The only argument that can really be made is that the projectiles move quicker (like fireball for example) to target and/or that some abilities do damage on cast instead of the delay (lava for example).

Any other ‘problems’ with staff is due more to the 5 target limit of AoE than anything else. Sure you can’t viably solo with a staff, but staff isn’t meant to be a solo weapon.

This. Leveling up with a Staff for the first 40 levels taught me that these are really the only problems with the weapon.

covenn.7165:

1. Staff isn’t only a support role. I wreck people with my staff. We have two different perspectives here, so ask yourself what you may be doing different than me.

covenn.7165:

However, as I said before…. I would not use staff in PvP, havoc, 1v1, or any other small man engagements. It isn’t designed for those situations and d/d is vastly superior.

I dunno what definition of “support” you’re using, but I consider any weapon with group utility that can’t 1v1 effectively support-oriented.

Fortus.6175:

the reality is this; you are in the middle of nowhere, in a road with no people around, your car breaks, in the accident the tools kit falls off a cliff and you dont have choice but to use the the back of the hammer to unscrew something, it is not the right tool indeed, but you have to do since thats all left to be able to survive out there.

Now, in case you didnt get the analogy, i will break it down a bit more; the stuff falling off cliff represents combat, once you have the staff, you cant do anything but deal with it, you werent prepare for it because thats the whole thing about accidents, they just happens.

That isn’t reality, but it is your fault for not being prepared. I get your analogy, but it isn’t accurate to reality.

I don’t run around with my staff out when I am moving around the map. I also don’t need to switch to my staff when running havoc, solo, or small manning because I won’t be attacking zergs… I will be avoiding them.

If I am going to be a in a zerg, then you will have plenty of time before getting into combat to get your staff out if needed…. or just keep it out. You wont have to worry about thieves wrecking you while standing in the middle of 20 other people.

The only times I have ever been caught with the wrong weapon for a situation is when I get lazy. There is no reason ever to let this happen otherwise.

Chaosky.5276:

I dunno what definition of “support” you’re using, but I consider any weapon with group utility that can’t 1v1 effectively support-oriented.

The common definition of ‘support’ that has been used in MMOs for over a decade is literally increasing the effectiveness of other players through your abilities. Be they buffs (boons), heals, ….whatever.

Being ‘support’ has nothing to do with being unable to 1v1. Also a staff isn’t support oriented. It is a mix of damage, support, and CC. There is more damage and CC abilities than there are support abilities by far with the staff.

I have used a staff on my ele for at least 90% of the 700ish hours I have played on my ele. I have never really experienced any issues with it aside from the carpal tunnel it has caused. Seriously, the staff ele has to be the hardest class to play effectively but it can be done. I speak from personal experience I have 5 level 80 characters and ele is my main. There is nothing wrong with staff except the possible disparity in the level of difficulty it takes to master and the level of effort it takes to play it effectively compared to other classes. As for ele survivability, cantrips and associated traits are your friends.

Taldek.6105:

I have used a staff on my ele for at least 90% of the 700ish hours I have played on my ele. I have never really experienced any issues with it aside from the carpal tunnel it has caused. Seriously, the staff ele has to be the hardest class to play effectively but it can be done. I speak from personal experience I have 5 level 80 characters and ele is my main. There is nothing wrong with staff except the possible disparity in the level of difficulty it takes to master and the level of effort it takes to play it effectively compared to other classes. As for ele survivability, cantrips and associated traits are your friends.

“associated traits” which are water, right? Also you need at least 20 arcana for blasting (VIII) , there you go, you have proved, once again, the issue with the profession:

once again you HAVE to go at least 0/0/0/20-30/20-30 in order to be effective, meaning that now you need defense to back it up and cant get any relavant points into fire/air because you NEED the water/arcana. Here is the issue, D/D can get away with it, no, as a matter of fact, D/D benefices the most and gets more out of it than going air/fire, which is why D/D users dont complain about it, but for staff, that…..just….doesnt work.

Ok, being the “other OP” Scrambles is talking about, I’ll chime in. Covenn has part of the answer, but not enough of it. It is flat out not possible to kill anything before it’s at your feet with a staff. (Every other class, aside from the engineer, has gap closers that render the “battle at range” a moot thing.)

That is a problem. The simple truth is that our CC times are far too low, the projectile speed is laughable, our escapes aren’t worth using at all. For the iconic mage weapon, there’s something wrong.

When I play staff (which i’ll admit, isn’t often any more – might stacking on S/D or D/D bunker being far superior in every possible sense) I want the ability to kill things before they’re at my feet. If they make it up to me, I should be a free kill. What I want is it to be kittening hard to make it to me in the first place.

Let our single target attacks do damage worth noting. Let our escapes give us 1200 range to play with. For all that’s holy, remove the stupid 5 person AoE cap.

note: I don’t play PvP. I don’t see myself ever playing PvP. WvWvW and PvE is where I play. As things stand now, if I want to roll an ele with a staff, my only truly viable option is to go full support – which is silly.

Also, for the combo field argument, that was covered previously. By the nature of our combo fields (on staff) they’re team buffs. Overall, it’s a boon to the team, yes. In terms of my own personal damage? They’re nothing, and less than nothing. If I’m comboing at my feet, something’s wrong. The battle, barring disaster, shouldn’t be at my feet. I’m low health, in a frigging bathrobe.

If our combos lead to offensive things, like poison, weakness, crippled or chilled? That’d be cool. As it is it’s team buffing, and what it seems everyone calling staff “fine” on the forums is missing is that a staff ele shouldn’t have to be support.

I’ll grant, with all that said, the OP has suggested far too extreme a set of changes to the staff – number tweaking would do the job. Outright changing the skills is too far, imho. (example, my thread from earlier: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/staff-fixes-improvements/first#post1801715)

Peace, eh?

Stale

@Eldain

Well.. If you are looking for a single target ranged magical DPS and feel disappointed with how staff on Eles doesn’t fulfil such purpose, why do not roll, say... GS Mesmer? I think it comes much closer to what you are looking for. Why not play it instead?

Your main problem is that you expect a class to play a traditional roll. Staff, however, wasn’t designed in the way you wish it to be, so obviously Ele doesn’t play the same "traditional mage roll". GW2 doesn’t even have a traditional healer or tank class. I don’t see you complaining about that, yet it somehow upsets you that Eles aren’t playing the traditional mage roll.

What I’m trying to say is that GW2 doesn’t have the standard classes with their traditional rolls. And that isn’t going to change. They may buff Staff a bit (and it does need some buffs) but it will never become what you wish it to be, because it wasn’t designed that way. Yet I believe that a Staff dps build isn’t all horrible either, it’s just won’t be the same numbers as you get from playing thief or warrior or even mesmer.

So you have to find either a new class to play or a new game, because staff is what it is and Eles are what they are. Anet may buff them here and there, but the core of it will remain. If you cannot accept that.. I just don’t know you persist on playing something you are so disappointed with.

paleeshi.1924:

Well.. If you are looking for a single target ranged magical DPS and feel disappointed with how staff on Eles doesn’t fulfil such purpose, why do not roll, say… GS Mesmer? I think it comes much closer to what you are looking for. Why not play it instead?

(Imma butt in because this applies to me.)

I would, but I really dislike the illusionist aesthetic of the mesmer. In fact, for roleplaying reasons, the only classes I can bring myself to play are ele and engi.

Weird, I know, but still, I just don’t see why the king of versatility can’t be as good at range as a warrior. A melee-oriented class.

Engineer.
I geared mine towards. Mad-Max steampunk =)