(edited by scerevisiae.1972)
Staff needs better single target dmg options
Um if you want single target attacks why not change weapons maybe?
And maybe…..run a few tourneys? Just so you know how great a staff can be assaulting or defending a point?
what you are saying is very correct mjharrison, we do need a proper 1200 range viable dps weapon in 1vs1, something like a greatsword maybe, or heck since we have no conjure spell that has main hand sword maybe the mainhanded sword could be it, right now the aoe is clunky for spvp, i dont mind having a 1handed sword and a dagger or a focus that i could properly use in ranged fights and not facetanking enemies like just another melee class ingame…
But changing staff to single target dps isnt very great because we will be horrid for aoe dps and support in pve for example.
- Ele’s don’t have weapon-swap
- The title and body of the post clearly express that the issue is how poor the single-target is, not how great the AOE is/may be.
(edited by scerevisiae.1972)
But changing staff to single target dps isnt very great because we will be horrid for aoe dps and support in pve for example.
Changing 1-3 skills and/or changing 1-2 traits in a single attunement is not going to make you “horrid” at AOE or support…
Staff is meant to be aoe… dont like it? Switch to something else. Not like we dont have 4 other single target dps choices.
ugh, dont u think it would be wiser to have another weapon doing what you are requesting rather than changing 9 staff aoe skills to single target? :\
How about this, change air attunement into single target DPS and adding more dps to it, its not like many ppl find them incredibly usefull appart from number 5, thats as far as i would agree the staff to be changed, because tbh in gw1 air skills were mostly solo target and only 2 or 3 air skills were aoe i think, they were intended for more damage than fire to single target, but ofc beying mostly single target.
(edited by TheWarKeeper.5374)
I strongly agree to this. Air is described on the site as single target damage, and that’s what it should. I think air 1 should always hit hit for as much as fireball, but keep the 3/4 cast time and only hit 1 target. Air 2 should be a 1sec cast time, and only hit 1 target.
Because honestly, you may as well stay in fire for single target dps, air is kind of useless outside of swiftness and static field.
(edited by Navzar.2938)
So you want the most power AOE at the same time as having powerful 1 person options?
Come on…
Why so much hate on this? Eles do need a buff, and it wouldn’t be “powerful” 1 person options, just moderate. Other weapon combinations have strong single target as well as aoe options.
I think that instead, all of staff’s non aoe powers should be made aoe.
I wish they had a viable single target 1200 range weapon rather than having to go D/D for any real DPS.
Kittens, Kittens everywhere!
Do something sort of like this.
Water
4 (snare), 2 (dmg they can’t outrun cause they are chilled)
Earth
5 (root), 4 (cripple), 2 (dmg they cant outrun cause they are crippled)
Fire
2 on top of your Eruption.
Dodge into fire field. Arcane wave.
Enjoy your 13 stacks of might (you runed/sigiled for might on swap, and bonus might duration right?).
Watch Fire Autoattack hit for 1.5k without crits.
After about 5 seconds in fire, do another dodge into your fire field, then repeat the sequence for epic damage now with 20+ stacks of might.
provide a service that I’m willing to purchase.” – Fortuna.7259
ugh, dont u think it would be wiser to have another weapon doing what you are requesting rather than changing 9 staff aoe skills to single target? :\
Noone is suggesting changing 9 (wtf?) skills, only 1-3. Of one attunement.
Can I suggest you read the OP before replying?
So you want the most power AOE at the same time as having powerful 1 person options?
Thieves already have the most powerful AOE (dagger storm) and best single target (backstab build).
In any case, I’m suggesting you should be able to make staff do viable single-target damage rather than solely AOE. This could be implemented purely as a skill change or require you to spec for specific traits to do it.
Yep, OP is correct. Air Staff needs to be tweaked for more single target dps.
And Earth Staff #1 is a candidate for worst attack ever
Earth Staff 1 at least stacks weakness even if it is duration which is decent. I do wish our auto attacks were better. The only one I use is fire 1.
Earth auto is also projectile finisher.
Staff is fine as it is right now, if you know what youre doing even 1v1 is easy to put your areas to good use.
Also.. Daggerstorm doesnt even come close to Staff Elementalist areas.. nothing beats Staff Ele in areaspells
epic-timeraider.weebly.com
While I understand your frustration I feel as though you’ve artificially inflated the problem for the sake of your argument.
Rather than running down the list of every skill I just want to point out that there’s no reason why 3/5 fire skills, 3/5 water skills, 4/5 air skills and 2/5 earth skills aren’t viable as single-target abilities.
You’re also disingenuous about the number of single-target skills the staff has. It has five, in fact: Fireball, Water Blast, Lightning Surge, Stoning and Shockwave. Each of these skills targets a single foe, damages it, and in the case of the non-earth skills provides a bonus after-effect. Fireball dealing splash damage doesn’t make it any less of a single-target ability: it makes it a single target ability with conditional splash.
Having said that, elementalist overall is a bit “soft” so to speak. Even if the staff is tweaked it doesn’t highlight some of the underlying problems, such as how difficult soloing is compared to other professions.
If the staff absolutely must be changed (and nothing else), here are my suggestions:
1. Chain Lightning should deal much more damage than it currently does, but to compensate have the damage split evenly across its targets. For some fake example numbers, let’s say that it deals 600 damage to a single target. If there’s two targets have it deal 300 to each, and if there’s three have it deal 200 damage to each.
2. Lightning Surge should stun your target for either 0.5 or 1.0 seconds as well as blinding it. Nearby foes should be blinded for a shorter duration.
3. Gust should cause additional damage or knockback if it only hits a single opponent.
4. Stoning should cause a minor knockback or interrupt if the target is crippled or immobilized. The projectile should move faster.
5. Unsteady Ground should interrupt/trip if the opponent is weakened or immobilized.
These changes would make the elementalist a bit more viable in terms of dueling and single-target control without horribly destroying their multi-target potential (or even really changing how the current state of things operates). Earth is overall fairly weak compared to Fire and Air (since 1 is kind of bad, 3 is a shield and 2/4 can be unreliable/slow), so we can create a fair balance by improving its inter-skill synergies and kiting. Specifically though the focus would be on making Air a bit stronger against single targets.
Men of Science [MoS] – Tarnished Coast
(edited by Kerithlan.1659)
Speeding up our auto attack projectiles would probably help a lot.
As for Stoning, I disagree with the claim that it’s not useful. Sure, it’s not great at dealing damage, but the weakness it gives, plus the fact that it’s a finisher, makes it pretty useful in my book. I’d much rather see water 1 being changed. As of now, it will only heal you when you’re in melee and that’s a bit too niche for my taste.
You’re also disingenuous about the number of single-target skills the staff has. It has five, in fact: Fireball, Water Blast, Lightning Surge, Stoning and Shockwave. Each of these skills targets a single foe, damages it, and in the case of the non-earth skills provides a bonus after-effect. Fireball dealing splash damage doesn’t make it any less of a single-target ability: it makes it a single target ability with conditional splash.
Um… all of those spells are AOE except for stoning. If the spells affects an area, it is by definition an area of effect spell. I don’t see how this isn’t clear.
Having said that, elementalist overall is a bit “soft” so to speak. Even if the staff is tweaked it doesn’t highlight some of the underlying problems, such as how difficult soloing is compared to other professions.
If the staff absolutely must be changed (and nothing else), here are my suggestions:
1. Chain Lightning should deal much more damage than it currently does, but to compensate have the damage split evenly across its targets. For some fake example numbers, let’s say that it deals 600 damage to a single target. If there’s two targets have it deal 300 to each, and if there’s three have it deal 200 damage to each.
2. Lightning Surge should stun your target for either 0.5 or 1.0 seconds as well as blinding it. Nearby foes should be blinded for a shorter duration.
3. Gust should cause additional damage or knockback if it only hits a single opponent.
4. Stoning should cause a minor knockback or interrupt if the target is crippled or immobilized. The projectile should move faster.
5. Unsteady Ground should interrupt/trip if the opponent is weakened or immobilized.
These changes would make the elementalist a bit more viable in terms of dueling and single-target control without horribly destroying their multi-target potential (or even really changing how the current state of things operates). Earth is overall fairly weak compared to Fire and Air (since 1 is kind of bad, 3 is a shield and 2/4 can be unreliable/slow), so we can create a fair balance by improving its inter-skill synergies and kiting. Specifically though the focus would be on making Air a bit stronger against single targets.
So you basically agree with me anyway?
….
Um… all of those spells are AOE except for stoning. If the spells affects an area, it is by definition an area of effect spell. I don’t see how this isn’t clear.
….
So you basically agree with me anyway?
Why must I be in disagreement with you in order to comment on something that you’ve posted? The world isn’t black and white.
Water Blast (for example) doesn’t always cause AoE. The AoE is conditional. Personally? Rationally? Realistically? If it has a conditional modifier that doesn’t always make it act as an AoE ability, then it isn’t always an AoE ability. It’s a single-target ability that sometimes functions in an AoE capacity. If there are no allies nearby, it isn’t healing air — it doesn’t heal. This differs from a skill like Fire Blast which will function identically regardless of how many foes or allies are near you.
Your topic is discussing 1 vs 1 options for the staff (your own words). Therefore for the context of your own topic, Water Blast is not an AoE skill. I don’t see how it isn’t clear. I admit that I was incorrect regarding Shockwave. However, I don’t believe overbloating an argument with stretch data helps.
Men of Science [MoS] – Tarnished Coast
- Air #1: Buff the first strike, and reduce the damage of subsequent bounce hits accordingly, or make subsequent bounces able to re-strike the first target.
- Air #2: Increase the damage and make it instant cast, lengthen the CD.
- Air #3: Add a reasonable damage component to the knockback.
Air #1 can bounce back to the original target, Air #2 does good damage but it really needs a faster activation time. I doubt some damage on Air #3 would do much harm.
Air and Water should have single target spells. Fire and Earth should stay multi-target.
Staff is god in www. I love to watch while my Meteor shower rain down on the enemy with 83% crit and 98% crit damage ). You will get criticals in the 4300-6800 range and 66% chance to steal life on Critical hit food will give you a fair bit of survivability. If the staff where good 1vs1 it would be VERY OP. Air one is your best option for 1vs1 and really good vs. Mesmers and Rangers.
Seafarer’s Rest – Aeoon
Staff is god in www. I love to watch while my Meteor shower rain down on the enemy with 83% crit and 98% crit damage ). You will get criticals in the 4300-6800 range and 66% chance to steal life on Critical hit food will give you a fair bit of survivability. If the staff where good 1vs1 it would be VERY OP. Air one is your best option for 1vs1 and really good vs. Mesmers and Rangers.
That’s fine if you like zerging/tower humping.
It’s not OP because you get decimated in seconds with those stats.
Like I suggested, if there were a trait that weakened the AOE aspect in order to buff the single target then it would be fine.
Just allow for out of combat weapon swapping so we don’t have to deal with a clunky ui.
You can run around with say d/d and be ready for a 1v1 if jumped. But if you stroll up on a zerg fight, you have time to swap over to staff
i kinda agree and disagree, sure 1vs1 is super annoying with a staff, unless its vs someone with a minion or pet/clone, chain lightning does fairly decent dmg vs 2 opponents when it can bounce between, and yeah all the aoes pretty much are easy to avoid, but in a group fight people dont really avoid them perfectly and your forcing them to move, use it for positional control.. not for flat out fast dps.. that being said maybe the earth auto atk could be made faster/with a bleed stack something more like the sceptres auto atk. either way just stick with the groups go for 2 vs 2 or more, and support and control. for example heres a staff ele vid i did earlier though i even said same thing here, single target dps is crap :P but hey ho thats not what staff is for
Water Blast (for example) doesn’t always cause AoE. The AoE is conditional.
It affects an area, therefore it’s an area-of-effect spell, whether it affects more than one target or not is irrelevant; the spell has been tuned to perform at an “AOE level”.
Returning to the topic, Water #1 does paltry damage as its tuned to be an AOE healing/support nuke, which is fine, however, there should be at least 1 skill and/or trait that permits staff to perform at a reasonable level in 1v1.
Designing weapons to perform well at only 1 role for a class that cannot weapon swap practically is terrible game design.
Staff is god in www. I love to watch while my Meteor shower rain down on the enemy with 83% crit and 98% crit damage ). You will get criticals in the 4300-6800 range and 66% chance to steal life on Critical hit food will give you a fair bit of survivability. If the staff where good 1vs1 it would be VERY OP. Air one is your best option for 1vs1 and really good vs. Mesmers and Rangers.
Seafarer’s Rest – Aeoon
That’s fine and dandy in large group fights, however, it’s not really good when people can easily drop you in seconds with any class. Certainly, not 1v1.
There will be 0 elementalist that can kill my character 1v1 using a staff. lol
Just allow for out of combat weapon swapping so we don’t have to deal with a clunky ui.
I think it’s pretty clear that in-combat weapon swapping for Ele would be OP. I feel that tuning the existing weapon skills so that each weapon is thematically different but still able to perform (or be specced to perform) multiple roles is an overall better way to go.
You can run around with say d/d and be ready for a 1v1 if jumped. But if you stroll up on a zerg fight, you have time to swap over to staff
You can do that now, you just have to stay out of combat for 15 secs.
Am I the only one who noticed that almost all ele weapon skills(not only staff) are aoes? Thus implying that the class was intended for aoe > single target gameplay? And also that there is nothing wrong with that?
Staff is god in www. I love to watch while my Meteor shower rain down on the enemy with 83% crit and 98% crit damage ). You will get criticals in the 4300-6800 range and 66% chance to steal life on Critical hit food will give you a fair bit of survivability. If the staff where good 1vs1 it would be VERY OP. Air one is your best option for 1vs1 and really good vs. Mesmers and Rangers.
Seafarer’s Rest – Aeoon
Out of curiosity, how does one achieve that 83% / 98% dmg?
I have full exotic bezerkers w/ rubies in each, full exotic ruby accessories, and a power/prec/%crit dmg staff. Is your power low? I’m in the 50% percent range for crit chance (w/out fury of course).
Edit: spelling.
Oh, and btw, I’d love for air staff to be the “single target” element with better high-dmg one-target attacks. No more chain lightning. We already have fireball to do aoe on auto attack.
Staff is god in www. I love to watch while my Meteor shower rain down on the enemy with 83% crit and 98% crit damage ). You will get criticals in the 4300-6800 range and 66% chance to steal life on Critical hit food will give you a fair bit of survivability. If the staff where good 1vs1 it would be VERY OP. Air one is your best option for 1vs1 and really good vs. Mesmers and Rangers.
Seafarer’s Rest – Aeoon
Out of curiosity, how does one achieve that 83% / 98% dmg?
I have full exotic bezerkers w/ rubies in each, full exotic ruby accessories, and a power/prec/%crit dmg staff. Is your power low? I’m in the 50% percent range for crit chance (w/out fury of course).
Edit: spelling.
30/30/0/10/0
Runes of the eagle
Berserker Gear & Ruby Trinkets & Assasin backpack
59% Crit / 98% Crit damage
Signet of fire +4% crit
Master maintenance oil +5% crit
Omnonberry Ghost food +3% crit
Superior Sigil of perception +12% crit.
83% crit /98% Crit damage.
In www it is very easy to farm stacks for the sigil with chain lightning. I would say I have 70%+ up time on 25 stacks. Good staff skills for survivability is Arcane shield, Mist form and Lightning flash, skills that prevent the opponent from damaging you.
(edited by Leeach.3547)
Oh, and btw, I’d love for air staff to be the “single target” element with better high-dmg one-target attacks. No more chain lightning. We already have fireball to do aoe on auto attack.
Agree. Air staff is weak as it is and nearly useless for what it is advertised to be. Air Staff needs serious work.
Out of curiosity, how does one achieve that 83% / 98% dmg?
[theory crafting]
Well, I went in spvp to check it out… With Fire Signet, Runes of Eagle, Rampager amulet, 30 air I got to 74% crit chance. The 10 precision stack sigil would give 250 precision or ~10% crit chance extra, thus bringing the char up to the 83% chance(should be more, actually). Now, FS, Eagle runes and 30 air are available outside spvp, so…how to get 923 out of spvp…
Coral jewel set: 336
Rampager armour: 315
Rampager Stafff: 179
That’s 830. Add a 100 precision food and you got 930 which is just the right amount to get 83%+ crit chance.
At the same time with that set-up I have 38% crit dmg. I’d assume 98% includes the base 50%, which by that standard would put me at 88% total. The extra 10% can easily come from taking out some precision(which the above set-up has more than enough of) and subbing it for crit dmg(say, 3 ruby jewels and 2 coral instead of 5 coral). Which ,in theory would bring the char to 84%/98%.[/theory crafting]
I guess there are more ways to get the same result and am just curious how close I got to the real thing xD
EDIT: Oh, bummer, I was a bit late posting. But I was sort of close-ish…kind of… At least got the runes right….
While I understand your frustration I feel as though you’ve artificially inflated the problem for the sake of your argument.
Rather than running down the list of every skill I just want to point out that there’s no reason why 3/5 fire skills, 3/5 water skills, 4/5 air skills and 2/5 earth skills aren’t viable as single-target abilities.
You’re also disingenuous about the number of single-target skills the staff has. It has five, in fact: Fireball, Water Blast, Lightning Surge, Stoning and Shockwave. Each of these skills targets a single foe, damages it, and in the case of the non-earth skills provides a bonus after-effect. Fireball dealing splash damage doesn’t make it any less of a single-target ability: it makes it a single target ability with conditional splash.
Having said that, elementalist overall is a bit “soft” so to speak. Even if the staff is tweaked it doesn’t highlight some of the underlying problems, such as how difficult soloing is compared to other professions.
If the staff absolutely must be changed (and nothing else), here are my suggestions:
1. Chain Lightning should deal much more damage than it currently does, but to compensate have the damage split evenly across its targets. For some fake example numbers, let’s say that it deals 600 damage to a single target. If there’s two targets have it deal 300 to each, and if there’s three have it deal 200 damage to each.
2. Lightning Surge should stun your target for either 0.5 or 1.0 seconds as well as blinding it. Nearby foes should be blinded for a shorter duration.
3. Gust should cause additional damage or knockback if it only hits a single opponent.
4. Stoning should cause a minor knockback or interrupt if the target is crippled or immobilized. The projectile should move faster.
5. Unsteady Ground should interrupt/trip if the opponent is weakened or immobilized.
These changes would make the elementalist a bit more viable in terms of dueling and single-target control without horribly destroying their multi-target potential (or even really changing how the current state of things operates). Earth is overall fairly weak compared to Fire and Air (since 1 is kind of bad, 3 is a shield and 2/4 can be unreliable/slow), so we can create a fair balance by improving its inter-skill synergies and kiting. Specifically though the focus would be on making Air a bit stronger against single targets.
I think the problem is that aoes are weaker or have some sort of draw back in exchange for the area (which is very reasonable), but OP would like some single target options as well to balance out the staff (all other ele sets have both single target and aoe)
Also, fireball, lightning surge and schockwave are aoes, even if they need a target to use well (excluding shockwave). Fireball is 120 radius, and surge is 120, up to 240 with blasting staff. The aoe on these isn’t conditional at all, its always there, thus they’re the definition of aoe. Fireball doesn’t even need a direct hit for its aoe. Waterblast is single target damage, yes, but the damage is so low that the skill is really only used for the healing, so I woulnd’t even count it as attacking. As far as suggest 3 goes, gust is a single target skill so there isn’t much “if”.
You’re suggestions are pretty interesting, buffing single target while somehow keeping the aoe isn’t something I would have thought of.
(edited by Navzar.2938)
I think the problem is that aoes are weaker or have some sort of draw back in exchange for the area (which is very reasonable), but OP would like some single target options as well to balance out the staff (all other ele sets have both single target and aoe)
Let’s compare:
MT D/D skills: Fire1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Water1, 2, 3(theoretically 4 and 5 also affect multiple targets), Air1, 2, 4, 5(3 also can affect multiple targets), Earth2, 4, 5
What do you know, D/D has the same amount of multitarget skills as staff…and a good amount of them are aoes. Not point-and-click aoes, but still…
Fire 1 on D/D may as well be single, its very weak if you split it up, but yeah I get your point. But D/D still has those aoes (like the breaths, and lightning whip(used to be single) that hit smaller aoes and have stronger dps in exchange, making it good for 1v1. And their 1v1/few skills are much better dps, particularly dragon’s claw and lightning whip.
…And I wouldn’t count auras since their mostly defensive.
Point is that it’s good 1v1 and 1vMany. The short range drawback I feel is mitigated by the damage buffing/mobility. But yeah, I guess Instead of wanting more single target skills specifically, I just want slightly better 1vfew skills…
The main reason I want a few single target skills on air is because atm, you’re better off spamming fireball in most situations than using air for damage. I think that’s sad. The rare exception is when fighting 2 enemies, because the first target will be hit twice from chain lightning. Basically, air is overshadowed, so I figured the easiest fix would be to go with the official description of air magic and make it single target.
Technically almost all melee is aoe too, because it has a hit radius that can catch multiple enemies, but they’re effectively 1v1s.
(edited by Navzar.2938)
Fire 1 on D/D may as well be single, its very weak if you split it up, but yeah I get your point. But D/D still has those aoes (like the breaths, and lightning whip(used to be single) that hit smaller aoes and have stronger dps in exchange, making it good for 1v1. And their 1v1/few skills are much better dps, particularly dragon’s claw and lightning whip.
…And I wouldn’t count auras since their mostly defensive.
Point is that it’s good 1v1 and 1vMany. The short range drawback I feel is mitigated by the damage buffing/mobility. But yeah, I guess Instead of wanting more single target skills specifically, I just want slightly better 1vfew skills…The main reason I want a few single target skills on air is because atm, you’re better off spamming fireball in most situations than using air for damage. I think that’s sad. The rare exception is when fighting 2 enemies, because the first target will be hit twice from chain lightning. Basically, air is overshadowed, so I figured the easiest fix would be to go with the official description of air magic and make it single target.
Technically almost all melee is aoe too, because it has a hit radius that can catch multiple enemies, but they’re effectively 1v1s.
I was basically making the point that ele in general is an MT-based class, some weapons are more traditional at it(like, staff) while it’s less obvious with others(like dagger). But it is part of the class.
I did put auras on the side because of that, but they still have MT-side to them so they can’t be fully excluded from the list either.
I do agree that staff air is…not exactly my favourite. Mostly because the autoattack bounce tends to pull adds in pve and that is just annoying. For example, mesmer GS2 works the same way, but the bounce has a significantly smaller range(or smth, never had an issue with that skill). Having the air1 on staff stack(as in, always hit 3 times even on 1 target) and limited bounce range would be a nice improvement. But if anything, I’d like to see more aoes on staff(like, air3 for example).
Can’t have it both ways. You have aoe, range, and support on staff you don’t need the uber single target dps it just doesn’t make sense. Why even have other weapons then?
Wrekkes-Engineer Kore Rok Thief-Asraithe-Ele
Can’t have it both ways. You have aoe, range, and support on staff you don’t need the uber single target dps it just doesn’t make sense. Why even have other weapons then?
because the other weapons have those options already? virtually every weapon of every class has some mix of range, AOE, support and control.
currently, 19/20 staff skills are AOE. all i’m arguing for is 1-3 single target skills and/or a trait or 2.
I do find the lack of true single target annoying but I think projectile speed would fix it on its own.. earth 1 would be fairly more useful.. not to mention it would greatly reduce the whole.. target moves 2 feet to the side and you miss just because it takes so long to get to them
scepter nerfed almost into oblivion in beta, staff useless in single target dps, no weapon swap on elementalist… its nice we have good D/D dmg on melee range as clothwearers, but we need something more then only this i think…
(edited by MaXi.3642)
I made this post before but got flamed
But yea, Elementalist dont have a single target ranged dps weapon.
And seriously, how hard is it to dodge/run out of a big red circle for AoE?
AoE in WvW is overrated unless its for keep attack/defence
Putting out fields for others to combo in? zzzz