Guild Wars 2

Hey there,
I’ve been playing as Ele for some time now mostly running dungeons with friends and with time some doubts started crossing my mind.. Since I was pretty much the only Ele on the group I mostly run S/D hammer (6/6/2/0/0) to stack might. But coming to the forums, reading DEKeys and some other posts about it, pretty much everyone says that staff outdpses LH builds by far, lack of blasts being the only downside to it. Well I’ve been trying staff build (tried 6/4/2/2/0 and 6/6/0/0/2) but it gives the impression that they both deal about the same dps, but I dunno, maybe I’m doing something wrong with it. Even when playing with staff I usually stack might with S/D then change to staff before the fight begins so I can start with proper might stacks.

I have full ascended zerk gear with scholar runes.. I was supposed to get strength runes for the LH build but I wanted to check this first.

So, does staff deal much more DPS than LH build? How’s LH builds compared to Warriors, Thiefs on bosses?
Any advices or thoughts about what I might be doing wrong?

Thanks

• The DPS difference between staff and LH is insignificant during a short fight (less than 40 seconds). So your feel may be right.
• DPS of the staff build increases significantly against a target with large hit box – think Lupicus, Great Nightmare Vine, Graveling bosses.
• LH builds still deal far more damage than Warriors, comparable to Thiefs on bosses, given the skill level is more or less the same.
• Strength rune is good, but not required. Scholar is still the best for ele in dungeons. Nothing can beat it.
• Double check your current rotation with what was described in DEKeyz’s guide. Rotation is extremely important when talking about DPS.

Hey,
Thanks for the answer, it helped alot.. About the rotations, I’m doing the rotations exactly as described, I tried to test against other possibilities but stuck with the “official” version so it shouldn’t be a problem.
But yesterday after my post I started looking at everything and something caught my eye…
With LH build, shouldn’t 6/4/2/2/0 be a increase in dps versus the 6/6/2/0/0? Is Arcane Lightning more valuable than Vital Striking?

Thanks

With 6 in Air, you’re able to stack Vuln (GM minor trait) and gain a burst with Fresh Air or (make use of) Tempest Defense damage boost, not to mention stat bonus in precision. LH build camping in water using 62240 would deal more damage than 6422, given your group has covered the vuln stacking.

Don’t be too obsessed about your own personal DPS. If you use S/D LH build, and then you help your team with might stacks, it’s a much higher overall DPS compared to just being the highest DPS in game (lava font spammer).

That is why if you’re the only Ele in the team, it’s not advisable to be on staff.

Unless, maybe, someone provides the fire field for you, you stack might from Earth, then switch to Fire attunement, 2 4 3. Switch to Staff. DPS. So much effort :/

There is some explanation why you could feel that its about the same dps.

If nobody else in your party stack might, then with the LH build you usually had more might than you do now with a staff build. I know you said that you stack might before with S/D and then switch to staff, but its longer and by the time you actually fight, your might will run out soon. Also, the LH give you big numbers, while the staff is more subtle. You have your Lava Front in the background always ticking dmg, you have some fireball there and there, the meteor shower, etc. Dmg on the staff from different source, while on the LH its only 1 big number while you auto-attack. Also, the difference in dmg between LH and Staff is not that high. But since with the LH you stack might, swap attunement, put down your hammer, dps, stack might again, take your second hammer etc, then you’ll see a difference. The LH is powerful, but you can’t attack 100% of the time with it. So that’s why that if you stack might before a fight and go in with your LH already in hand, you’ll almost no difference between it and a staff. It’s because you didn’t took into account the weakness of the LH : the down time.

I would stay S/D if you are the only ele. I feel that stacking might+fury for your whole group and then LH is gonna be better dps overall than just the boost from staff to yourself. Of course if you feel lazy, then go for staff. Really only have to push 3 hotkeys Don’t underestimate the power of might

Iris Ng.9845:

With 6 in Air, you’re able to stack Vuln (GM minor trait) and gain a burst with Fresh Air or (make use of) Tempest Defense damage boost, not to mention stat bonus in precision. LH build camping in water using 62240 would deal more damage than 6422, given your group has covered the vuln stacking.

The 62240 build seems like a good idea, but is it worth losing that 10% crit from the 4 points in Air Magic? Aren’t the lack of crits noticeable?

Tripzter.8623:

Iris Ng.9845:

With 6 in Air, you’re able to stack Vuln (GM minor trait) and gain a burst with Fresh Air or (make use of) Tempest Defense damage boost, not to mention stat bonus in precision. LH build camping in water using 62240 would deal more damage than 6422, given your group has covered the vuln stacking.

The 62240 build seems like a good idea, but is it worth losing that 10% crit from the 4 points in Air Magic? Aren’t the lack of crits noticeable?

It depend. 6/2/2/4/0 have more dps in theory. But, you are a squisky elementalist so you won’t be at 90% most of the time. 6/4/2/2/0 will give you a more constant dps and easier to reach. It leave you more room for errors. Whatever float your boat at this point. Personnally, I like the 5/2/2/5/0 build since I usually play with a Staff Ele that take care of Fury. I also like 5/5/2/2/0 when someone else take care of fury, but my group lack vulnerability. 6/6/0/2/0 is also a good option for bursting down stuff with the combo Tempest Defense/Frostbow.

That’s the best thing about behing able to switch build on demand. You can adjust it to the party and the situation.

I completely agree.. Being able to switch builds on demand is very good. It helps alot.

I also like the 5/2/2/5/0 build, love those multipliers, but i dont really have someone reliable to take care of the fury so Persisting Flames is pretty much a must for now.. And I see your point with the >90% hp..
Other than melting the boss with FGS gives alot of time to drop my hp out of that value.. I’ll probably give some tests to the 6/4/2/2/0.

Thanks alot for your help guys!

The arcane lightning buff from 5/4/0/5/0 will out-DPS the 5/2/2/5 build.

xallever.1874:

The arcane lightning buff from 5/4/0/5/0 will out-DPS the 5/2/2/5 build.

Actually

5/2/2/5/0 will have about the same dps as a 5/4/0/5/0. But the arcane buff is not always up so overall the 5/2/2/5/0 build will do a more constant dps.

Dekeyz propose to use arcane lightning no over Stone Splinters, but over vital strike. Stone Splinters is a strait 10% that is easy to achieve, but Vital Strike can be hard to keep up since you are a squishy elementalist.

Thaddeus.4891:

xallever.1874:

The arcane lightning buff from 5/4/0/5/0 will out-DPS the 5/2/2/5 build.

Actually

5/2/2/5/0 will have about the same dps as a 5/4/0/5/0. But the arcane buff is not always up so overall the 5/2/2/5/0 build will do a more constant dps.

Dekeyz propose to use arcane lightning no over Stone Splinters, but over vital strike. Stone Splinters is a strait 10% that is easy to achieve, but Vital Strike can be hard to keep up since you are a squishy elementalist.

Arcane buff can be easily refreshed using both arcane beilliance and arcane wave chains. If the encounter is gonna last more than 15 seconds, just be sure not to use them both simultaneously.

Actually

dekeyz proposes arcane lighning over stone splinters. You can ask her personally on that.

xallever.1874:

Arcane buff can be easily refreshed using both arcane beilliance and arcane wave chains. If the encounter is gonna last more than 15 seconds, just be sure not to use them both simultaneously.

Actually

dekeyz proposes arcane lighning over stone splinters. You can ask her personally on that.

I know that you can keep up the Arcane Buff most of the time. That wasn’t my point. My point was, even if you can keep the Arcane buff up 100%, both build will have similar dps. But Splinters is super easy to keep up, while Arcane buff, well you can screw up sometimes and some situation you need to use your heal while you buff is still up because you receive a hit in the face. So even if both build are extremely close in term of dps, I prefer splinter over arcane brilliance.

Ok I just check the guid by Dekeyz were she talk about 5/4/0/5/0. I don’t what are the reason behind this. Like I said, from what I saw, they are both really close in term of DPS (like 0.6% difference). Close enough to not make much difference. So maybe Dekeyz put 5/4/0/5/0 in place of 5/2/2/5/0 because even if its small, you can do more DPS with 5/4/0/5/0, even if its so tiny.

Maybe there is something that i didn’t see too. This is possible.

100 Precision + a Damage modifier. Not so tiny if we have to crunch the number. Anyhow, less than 4 points in Air means you have to use Precision food and/or Assassin Gear to make up for the loss of critical chance. You may as well consider what equipment you already have.

Iris Ng.9845:

100 Precision + a Damage modifier. Not so tiny if we have to crunch the number. Anyhow, less than 4 points in Air means you have to use Precision food and/or Assassin Gear to make up for the loss of critical chance. You may as well consider what equipment you already have.

Not at all. Its :

100 Precision + 100 Ferocity + Arcane Lightning (ferocity buff) for the 5/4/0/5/0

vs

10% damage modifier at 600 range or less

That’s what we are comparing. But true, that I simply do those specific change and see what are the result. Maybe some change in food or gear could change the result, but still I really don’t think that will make one build SO much powerful vs the other.

And btw its only 2pts in Air we are talking about.

Build rationales:

• 6-2-2-4-0 is super outdated. Ever since the ferocity patch 6-4-2-2-0 with management of your arcane skills is superior EP and DPS. Even with only an OH dagger fire field, you can maintain 70% Arcane Lightning uptime, and if you have multiple fire fields in your group or other people with blasts you can maintain 100% uptime. When doing DPS calcs, 6-4-2-2-0 with 70% ArL uptime still beat 6-2-2-4-0.

• 6-6-2-0-0 Air-Fire camping is the build I’d recommend for the first ele in a group. It is weaker for pure FB/FGS damage, but you can get better DPS in LH rotations from Electric Discharge procs as well as sneaking in Lightning Bolt and RtL. There’s also the Fresh Air variant which abuses Electric Discharge procs for even higher single target DPS, but its cleave damage is lower.

• 5-4-0-5-0 was my best effort at a DPS build that still lets you dodge. I’ve pretty much moved past water camping, though. Additionally, Nike’s and my research has been showing that every class should take their vuln trait in non-FGS situations. Multiplier is 1.1*1.05*1.1*1.2*(1.01^3)=1.5708 plus arcane lightning.

• 5-5-2-2-0, which you’ll see more of when I update my guide, favors fire and grabs as many other non-attunement modifiers as possible. So you have a multiplier of 1.1*1.1*1.05*1.1*1.1 = 1.5373 (+ Arcane Lightning). It has weak spot, 50 precision and ferocity, and some condi dmg over 5-4-0-5-0. The LH rotations end up being higher DPS because you more or less camp fire all the time.

• Similarly, people have started using 6-6-0-2-0 Tempest Defense + Water camp for pure conjure damage with vuln. This has an average multiplier of 1.1*1.05*1.2*1.2 = 1.6632 while the enemy is frozen with FB5. A slightly higher modifier version is 6-6-2-0-0 TD + Fire for a multiplier of 1.1*1.1*1.05*1.2*1.1 = 1.6771 on frozen enemies. Also, this particular 6-6-2-0-0 works very well with firestaff.

The downside for fire-camping builds is that you’ll be restricted in the number of blasts you can use in prestacking before using FB or FGS if no one else can provide a fire field.

I guess one of the things that I should stress more are the rotations. While the EP of two builds may be the same, one could potentially have much higher DPS from a different rotation. EP is a pretty good indicator of pure FB/FGS damage, though. People like camping water because it’s easy and it gives big numbers, even though it’s often not the highest DPS option – those options, however, take a little bit more work to play well.

Regarding staff vs. LH – Staff rotations are higher DPS than LH rotations when fully buffed by like 500 DPS. Depending on your build, a LH rotation can do between 13-14k DPS while a staff rotation is like 13.5-14.5k with warrior banners, might, fury, vuln, ascended gear, and consumables. For comparison, a warrior is about 12-12.5K DPS and I’m working on thief but I’m pretty confident that backstab spamming will out DPS eles.

I kinda skimmed the thread since I checked it late, so please ask any questions that I may have missed.

I get like 12k on an non-frostspotter LH spec, I’ll have to recheck the numbers. What is your rotation outside of LH specifically? DT > Flamewall > Phoenix > Comet?

Copypasta’d from sticky:

S/D with conjurer:
Dragon’s Tooth – Ring of Fire – ArBr – Phoenix – Air – Lightning Strike – RtL – Conjure LH – AA x3 – ArW – AA x21 – Drop LH – Lightning Strike – RtL – Fire – Dragon’s Tooth – Ring of Fire – ArBr – Phoenix – Fire Grab – Pick up LH – AA x3 – ArW – AA x6 – Air – AA x15 – Drop LH – Lightning Strike – RtL

S/F Conjurer
Dragon’s Tooth – Flamewall – Phoenix – Earth – ArBr – Mag Wave – Water – Comet – Conjure LH – Air – AA x6 – ArW – AA x 18 – Drop LH – Lightning Strike – Fire – Dragon’s Tooth – Flamewall – Phoenix – Water – ArBr – Comet – Earth – Mag Wave – Pick Up LH – AA x6 – ArW – AA x3 – Air – AA x15 – Drop LH – Lightning Strike – Fire

Not so copypasta, still experimental:
Non conjurer rotations intended for organized-ish groups
S/D non-conjurer rotation: Dragon’s Tooth – Ring of Fire – Arcane Brilliance – Phoenix – Air Attune – Lightning Strike – Conjure LH – LH Chain – Arcane Wave – LH Chain x4 – Drop Conjure – Ride the Lightning – Lightning Strike – Fire Attune – Dragon’s Tooth – Ring of Fire – Fire Grab – Phoenix – Pick up LH – LH Chain – Arcane Brilliance – LH Chain x2 – Air Attune – LH Chain x2 – Drop Conjure – Lightning Strike – Ride the Lightning – Arcane Wave

S/F non-conjurer rotation (needs Fire VII): Dragon’s Tooth – Flamewall – Phoenix – Earth Attune – Arcane Brilliance – Magnetic Wave – Air Attune – Lightning Strike – Conjure LH – LH Chain x4 – Arcane Wave – LH Chain – Drop Conjure – Lightning Strike – Fire Attune- Dragon’s Tooth – Flamewall – Phoenix – Pick up Conjure – LH Chain x3 – Arcane Brilliance – LH Chain x2 – Drop Conjure – Dragon’s Tooth – Flamewall – Phoenix – Earth Attune – Magnetic Wave

Thank you very much DEKeyz, that is a lot of valuable information.

It will be in the guide in due time. Sooo much information to revise x.x

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I get like 12k on an non-frostspotter LH spec, I’ll have to recheck the numbers. What is your rotation outside of LH specifically? DT > Flamewall > Phoenix > Comet?

I like how every time you post you show how well informed you are!

DEKeyzToChaos.7381:

It will be in the guide in due time. Sooo much information to revise x.x

It’s all very exciting! I feel like all the build variants are much more dynamic than the ones before the feature patch. Also, would you recommend sigil of Frailty for Elementalist’ weapons?

P.S. Just a thought, when you edit your guide, could you please add in a description for which attunement camping? Sometimes the trait allocation is similar, but using different traits results in camping in different attunement, like 66200? I feel it’s easier for me to relate between the build and the rotations.

Darox.8069:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I get like 12k on an non-frostspotter LH spec, I’ll have to recheck the numbers. What is your rotation outside of LH specifically? DT > Flamewall > Phoenix > Comet?

I like how every time you post you show how well informed you are!

I like how every time you post it’s to say something pointlessly salty just because you lost the whole staff vs. LH thing months ago.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I get like 12k on an non-frostspotter LH spec, I’ll have to recheck the numbers. What is your rotation outside of LH specifically? DT > Flamewall > Phoenix > Comet?

I’m clueless about lh rotations but even I wouldn’t use comet there.

haviz.1340:

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

I get like 12k on an non-frostspotter LH spec, I’ll have to recheck the numbers. What is your rotation outside of LH specifically? DT > Flamewall > Phoenix > Comet?

I’m clueless about lh rotations but even I wouldn’t use comet there.

Indeed you are clueless since several ppl use comet indeed. Its not a good dps, but that’s a blast. Since LH Elementalist are mainly about might stacking you can see how it’s important.

Well Haviz is right in the sense that an organised group would definitely provide enough blasts to relieve the ele from having to use comet

Darox.8069:

Well Haviz is right in the sense that an organised group would definitely provide enough blasts to relieve the ele from having to use comet

Second that. The fight starts as soon as the boss is engaged, so no one would wait for the ele to blast all that might alone. Comet is only used by me when I run dungeons with a casual group and as a CC when Defiance is around 5 or 4.

I have something to say about that.. I usually play with a friend and if ppl from the guild wanna come its fine, but sometimes we take some outside ppl, and the new excuse everyone, guildies or not, uses is that they dont want to blast my fields because my blasts give fury and their blasts dont (if I am the only ele on the group its no use, I gotta take Fire XI – Persisting Flames whether I want or not) so they leave the blasts to me (thanks alot my friends <.<).
So trying some other builds without 6 in Fire is a no go.. And since I really don’t like to start a fight with pretty much every skill on CD, I usually stack might with another set. Using S/D as a main set, I change to S/F to stack, and Comet is a really precious blast. Not really hard to use it on a field either. And… Well.. You are already stacking might and fury, so why not use Comet aswell for that purpose?

And btw, anyone else got that awsome excuse before?

Tripzter.8623:

I have something to say about that.. I usually play with a friend and if ppl from the guild wanna come its fine, but sometimes we take some outside ppl, and the new excuse everyone, guildies or not, uses is that they dont want to blast my fields because my blasts give fury and their blasts dont (if I am the only ele on the group its no use, I gotta take Fire XI – Persisting Flames whether I want or not) so they leave the blasts to me (thanks alot my friends <.<).
So trying some other builds without 6 in Fire is a no go.. And since I really don’t like to start a fight with pretty much every skill on CD, I usually stack might with another set. Using S/D as a main set, I change to S/F to stack, and Comet is a really precious blast. Not really hard to use it on a field either. And… Well.. You are already stacking might and fury, so why not use Comet aswell for that purpose?

And btw, anyone else got that awsome excuse before?

Ya I saw that escuse before. Its bullkitten. A S/X LH Elementalist can do 6 blast. With persisting flames that 60sec of fury. WAY more enough that you need before the next set of blast. In dungeon, with a LH persisting flames Elementalist you can end up with 1-2min of fury after some fight. And your party blasting, don’t restrict you of blasting yourself, making that even more of a bad reason, not to blast.

Thaddeus.4891:

haviz.1340:

I’m clueless about lh rotations but even I wouldn’t use comet there.

Indeed you are clueless since several ppl use comet indeed. Its not a good dps, but that’s a blast. Since LH Elementalist are mainly about might stacking you can see how it’s important.

Bolded for emphasis.

haviz.1340:

Thaddeus.4891:

haviz.1340:

I’m clueless about lh rotations but even I wouldn’t use comet there.

Indeed you are clueless since several ppl use comet indeed. Its not a good dps, but that’s a blast. Since LH Elementalist are mainly about might stacking you can see how it’s important.

Bolded for emphasis.

OH you mean in that position in the rotation? Ok got it, sorry.

Thaddeus.4891:

Ya I saw that escuse before. Its bullkitten. A S/X LH Elementalist can do 6 blast. With persisting flames that 60sec of fury. WAY more enough that you need before the next set of blast. In dungeon, with a LH persisting flames Elementalist you can end up with 1-2min of fury after some fight. And your party blasting, don’t restrict you of blasting yourself, making that even more of a bad reason, not to blast.

How do you end up with 2 minutes of fury? Do you use additional boon duration? The theoretical max I can get is 90 seconds.

It’s also the practical max in my organized group :p

haviz.1340:

How do you end up with 2 minutes of fury? Do you use additional boon duration? The theoretical max I can get is 90 seconds.

Well, it was most likely because I’m usually not the only one giving fury in the group. Even in guild run, we usually don’t adjust our composition much so Warrior and Ranger probably add some time to my own fury. Anyway, its been a long time since the last time I used persisting flames on my LH Ele, but I clearly remember seeing 2min+ of fury sometimes. But like I said, it was most probably because of other source of fury too. Anyway, the point wasn’t about the exact time of fury, it was more to point out that a S/X Ele with Persisting Flames can give enough fury by its own.

Thaddeus.4891:

Well, it was most likely because I’m usually not the only one giving fury in the group. Even in guild run, we usually don’t adjust our composition much so Warrior and Ranger probably add some time to my own fury. Anyway, its been a long time since the last time I used persisting flames on my LH Ele, but I clearly remember seeing 2min+ of fury sometimes. But like I said, it was most probably because of other source of fury too. Anyway, the point wasn’t about the exact time of fury, it was more to point out that a S/X Ele with Persisting Flames can give enough fury by its own.

Fury like most of the boons, stacks up to 9 times. That means that if you or any of your party members cannot grant longer fury than 10 seconds (like signet of rage) you cannot have fury stacked for 2 minutes because that’s mathematically impossible.

Then I don’t have any good answer for you man. Like I said, I remember having about 2min of fury at some point, but it was about 1 months ago. One guys in the party said kitten, 2min of fury guys and I saw it when I looks it up. Can’t really remember what was our party composition sorry. I think it was at the final boss of SE path 3, and in my guild the guardian usually give everybody stability so we don’t get knownback and the boss spawn some destroyer of Earths. So probably that allowed ground was up (give boons duration) and I was playing with one of my friend that play ranger so he probably used the warhorn skill that give more than 10sec of fury if I remember. I won’t do the math, but I thinke its possible to reach 2min of fury, even if its very situational and not at all important.

I don’t know what’s gained by this. Why would anyone want to stack fury for 2 straight minutes? most fights last 30 secs with FGS and im being generous.. What do you guys want? Start stacking fury at the entrance of a dungeon to last the whole path? There’s no point in getting rilled up because of this..

I didn’t want to stack 2min of fury. I just said that it happen once.