Guild Wars 2

Grandmaster Trait in Earth line.
Above 90% HP you are immune to all power based dmg.

Thoughts?

In all seriousness though, this trait needs to be looked at. In basicly every “high” mmr game theres 2 cele eles duo queing (and yes they are really duo queing) running Diamond Skin.
In order for me not to be a complete kitten bashing something without a solution. I have a few tweeks I’d like to propose.
1st: Move this down to a Master tier and change into: While above 90% hp the Condition duration on you are decreased by 66%.
2nd: A complete rework. (Nothing should have this huge of an impact vs about a third of the builds.)
3rd: Only being immune while in earth attunement aswell as getting 4 seconds of resistance when swapping out of earth.

Thoughts?

I’m honestly fine with that, as long as the trait is only available to classes with 11k base HP.

shadow arts gm trait: shadow form. immune to direct damage above 90% hp. would wonder how much QQ it would cause :^)

I have an alternate proposal for changing Diamond Skin:

Gain Resistance when you swap attunements.

Now, this would take one of two forms:

1. 1 second of Resistance, no ICD. This one plays more into the constant swapping of attunements, but the duration is short to keep uptime reasonable. Cons to this are that the short duration will rarely feel very impactful (even though it very well could be), and that boon stripping is ineffective entirely, removing the counterplay point of the Resistance boon in the first place.

2. 3 seconds of Resistance, 10 second ICD. This is long enough to feel impactful as well as offer boonstrip counterplay opportunities, but loses some of the “on demand” nature of the trait.

Both versions, however, open up counterplay opportunities for condition builds that currently don’t exist while also making the trait useful when fighting Power builds, rather than a wasted grandmaster. They also are both useful in teamfights, where the current Diamond Skin is, again, a waste of a trait.

Sunshine.5014:

I’m honestly fine with that, as long as the trait is only available to classes with 11k base HP.

Let’s be real, only Ele’s deserve a trait like this. And it shouldn’t compete with Diamond Skin either.

Diamond Skin, complained about ad nauseam on these forums. We don’t need a second “Platinum Skin” to add to the stupidity.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Diamon-Skin-a-condi-users-worst-enemy/first

Get rid of Diamond Skin when you have Reapers stop being the hard counter to all bunker builds.

OP must be a reaper or condi user determined to engage tempests in 1v1s. How cute.

Nova Stiker.8396:

Get rid of Diamond Skin when you have Reapers stop being the hard counter to all bunker builds.

Then change it to chill immunity only lol.. now watch how many eles would Not choose it in any given PvP match.

Loop.8106:

In all seriousness though, this trait needs to be looked at. In basicly every “high” mmr game theres 2 cele eles duo queing (and yes they are really duo queing) running Diamond Skin.

And why is that? Because it’s the only build with a chance of winning against a condi-reaper. Literally no build stands a chance in a 1v1 against a reaper. And ppl forget that taking diamond skin is a heavy commitment: You basically make your build very strong against 2-3 popular builds in a 1v1 (that can easily change their build a little and completely negate diamond skin), but you’ll loose tons of survivability in teamfights, where diamond skin is almost always basically useless and stone-heart is absolutely amazing and almost necessary against spiked dmg.

Do I like the trait? Hell no, but atm, it’s necessary for Ele’s to be somewhat strong in 1v1’s against the extremely powerful 1v1 builds out there.

I’m just going to copy and paste what I said in a previous thread, because it’s still a good fix to the broken mechanic.

Solution: Diamond skin – Reduces the duration of all incoming conditions by 40%

That way you could take runes of the hoelbrak with it and have 60% reduced incoming condition duration, which is a good trade off and balanced imo as opposed to the hard counter it is now. No single trait should grant immunity to one side of the damage spectrum based off your health percentage. Overall reduced incoming condition duration is the right solution, and a balanced one.

Countless

My thoughts???

My thoughts is that Diamond Skin is utterly useless. THE ONLY REASON it’s effective, is because Tempest Aura builds that spit out protection and heals. The protection is the bloody problem.

Protection on Tempest build is 40%.

40% reduced damage. Take Earth for another 10%. Frost Auras for ANOTHER 10%. Scrapper Runes for another 7%.

-67% physical damage, heal abuse and immunity conditions.

Diamond skin IS NOT the problem. It’s just part of it. The real issue is nearly 3/4 damage is negated passively as a permanent bonus.

If we could rework the trait lines a little on earth and remove that passive -10% damage reduction, maybe some condition builds will have more success at breaking that 10% health pool to apply conditions. Ontop of that, if we remove protection when applying an Aura at the given state that an Ele can dispense them, that would remove the permanent uptime on protection which is essentially 40% damage negation. I’m sure that much of a drop in direct damage intake would allow for more condition builds to shine and even stand a chance.

sephiroth.4217:

My thoughts???

My thoughts is that Diamond Skin is utterly useless. THE ONLY REASON it’s effective, is because Tempest Aura builds that spit out protection and heals. The protection is the bloody problem.

Protection on Tempest build is 40%.

40% reduced damage. Take Earth for another 10%. Frost Auras for ANOTHER 10%. Scrapper Runes for another 7%.

-67% physical damage, heal abuse and immunity conditions.

Diamond skin IS NOT the problem. It’s just part of it. The real issue is nearly 3/4 damage is negated passively as a permanent bonus.

Taking diamond skin is still a huge disadvantage in teamfights and against non-condi-builds, even if you have tons of protection and it’s often only taken on D/F-Eles cuz they have good counters to spiked dmg on Earth with the focus.

Even in certain 1v1’s, taking diamond skin can cost you the MU, best example is VS rev’s.

Diamond Skin isn’t OP, it just requires counterplay: Just send a rev to where the Ele is instead of the reaper and you are fine.

Just to be clear, I don’t like the trait, but it clearly isn’t OP because it’s a tradeoff you make by taking it and good rotations can easily counter it. That being said, in random teams it surely is hard to deal with, with ppl not rotating properly etc.

sephiroth.4217:

My thoughts???

My thoughts is that Diamond Skin is utterly useless. THE ONLY REASON it’s effective, is because Tempest Aura builds that spit out protection and heals. The protection is the bloody problem.

Protection on Tempest build is 40%.

40% reduced damage. Take Earth for another 10%. Frost Auras for ANOTHER 10%. Scrapper Runes for another 7%.

-67% physical damage, heal abuse and immunity conditions.

Diamond skin IS NOT the problem. It’s just part of it. The real issue is nearly 3/4 damage is negated passively as a permanent bonus.

If we could rework the trait lines a little on earth and remove that passive -10% damage reduction, maybe some condition builds will have more success at breaking that 10% health pool to apply conditions. Ontop of that, if we remove protection when applying an Aura at the given state that an Ele can dispense them, that would remove the permanent uptime on protection which is essentially 40% damage negation. I’m sure that much of a drop in direct damage intake would allow for more condition builds to shine and even stand a chance.

Tempest is in a perfectly balanced spot right now aside from a couple bad traits and afew warhorn skills. Nerfing it much at all would make it totally useless, while buffing it more than the underpowered stuff it was would make it overpowered.

I don’t see whats wrong playing a SUPPORT build that hits like a wet nooddle that can take a lot of punishment from damage reduction. You also can’t have perma-protection on D/F without using earth overload off cooldown or durability runes (so no scrapper runes) which not every build will want at all. Warhorn is underrated but strong since it lets you have more consistent perma protection without needing to overload earth off cooldown or run boon duration runes.

Also in general, the other reason that tempest is balanced is because of the tradeoff between powerful auras and cleansing wave. If you run powerful auras you get lots of shocking aura on teammates and perma protection on teammates, but you lose almost all your cleanse, so you’re forced to take diamond skin. Cleansing wave with invigorating torrents and soldier runes is so much AoE cleansing for a team that it makes diamond skin look like a cheap parlor trick (and you get to take stone heart too). I can guarantee thats what most tempests will bandwagon too if diamond skin gets nerfed.

PowerBottom.5796:

Loop.8106:

In all seriousness though, this trait needs to be looked at. In basicly every “high” mmr game theres 2 cele eles duo queing (and yes they are really duo queing) running Diamond Skin.

And why is that? Because it’s the only build with a chance of winning against a condi-reaper. Literally no build stands a chance in a 1v1 against a reaper. And ppl forget that taking diamond skin is a heavy commitment: You basically make your build very strong against 2-3 popular builds in a 1v1 (that can easily change their build a little and completely negate diamond skin), but you’ll loose tons of survivability in teamfights, where diamond skin is almost always basically useless and stone-heart is absolutely amazing and almost necessary against spiked dmg.

Do I like the trait? Hell no, but atm, it’s necessary for Ele’s to be somewhat strong in 1v1’s against the extremely powerful 1v1 builds out there.

Im not saying they should remove the trait, if you go back and read the possible solutions i have for it.
Giving it 66% reduced condi duration would basicly make it a top tier trait, even in teamfights.

Loop.8106:

PowerBottom.5796:

Loop.8106:

In all seriousness though, this trait needs to be looked at. In basicly every “high” mmr game theres 2 cele eles duo queing (and yes they are really duo queing) running Diamond Skin.

And why is that? Because it’s the only build with a chance of winning against a condi-reaper. Literally no build stands a chance in a 1v1 against a reaper. And ppl forget that taking diamond skin is a heavy commitment: You basically make your build very strong against 2-3 popular builds in a 1v1 (that can easily change their build a little and completely negate diamond skin), but you’ll loose tons of survivability in teamfights, where diamond skin is almost always basically useless and stone-heart is absolutely amazing and almost necessary against spiked dmg.

Do I like the trait? Hell no, but atm, it’s necessary for Ele’s to be somewhat strong in 1v1’s against the extremely powerful 1v1 builds out there.

Im not saying they should remove the trait, if you go back and read the possible solutions i have for it.
Giving it 66% reduced condi duration would basicly make it a top tier trait, even in teamfights.

Ill take 100% uptime of 66% reduced condi duration over current diamond skin any time. Pair with hoelbraek or melandru runes for over 85% reduced condi duration. Followed by 33% reduced movement impairing conditions which equals to 100% chill immunity. Yes please

Grab a gun and headshot in-between the eyes. That’s how you shatter diamond skin. Consider using phoenix force for more extreme measure.

In all seriousness, tempest can spam auras. That’s perma protection, which is now 40% reduction, on top of regen and vigor and other -dmg% gear. And the heal. Diamond skin is a very smelly, stinky icing on a rotten pile of cake.

It tells a lot when a very specific spec is mandatory and everywhere in the matchup.

Expect nerfs, don’t delude yourself.

Diamond Skin doesn’t need a nerf, it needs an overhaul. The anti-condition theme is all that is really salvagable for this trait, but it needs to be something other than “you slotted this trait, you win!” or “Haha, you wasted your grandmaster trait choice!”

PowerBottom.5796:

sephiroth.4217:

My thoughts???

My thoughts is that Diamond Skin is utterly useless. THE ONLY REASON it’s effective, is because Tempest Aura builds that spit out protection and heals. The protection is the bloody problem.

Protection on Tempest build is 40%.

40% reduced damage. Take Earth for another 10%. Frost Auras for ANOTHER 10%. Scrapper Runes for another 7%.

-67% physical damage, heal abuse and immunity conditions.

Diamond skin IS NOT the problem. It’s just part of it. The real issue is nearly 3/4 damage is negated passively as a permanent bonus.

Taking diamond skin is still a huge disadvantage in teamfights and against non-condi-builds, even if you have tons of protection and it’s often only taken on D/F-Eles cuz they have good counters to spiked dmg on Earth with the focus.

Even in certain 1v1’s, taking diamond skin can cost you the MU, best example is VS rev’s.

Diamond Skin isn’t OP, it just requires counterplay: Just send a rev to where the Ele is instead of the reaper and you are fine.

Just to be clear, I don’t like the trait, but it clearly isn’t OP because it’s a tradeoff you make by taking it and good rotations can easily counter it. That being said, in random teams it surely is hard to deal with, with ppl not rotating properly etc.

Well if it’s not OP why to not get rid of it then ?

The thing is, the trade off is okay on paper but again team fights has advantages on ele side too for example if you have druid there.

Magnetic Aura, Prot uptime, and Condi Immunity with vigor and dodges with great sustain via heals and getting heals from another sources aswell as peels etc, that makes it a bit over top.

I m not even talking about other simple things as disengage get CDs up reengage.

And the damage, i dont know it’s cele build, it’s still have hybrid damage which is not great yeah, but it’s still damage and way better damage then Bunker Guard has especially with overloads.

Trigr.6481:

I’m just going to copy and paste what I said in a previous thread, because it’s still a good fix to the broken mechanic.

Solution: Diamond skin – Reduces the duration of all incoming conditions by 40%

That way you could take runes of the hoelbrak with it and have 60% reduced incoming condition duration, which is a good trade off and balanced imo as opposed to the hard counter it is now. No single trait should grant immunity to one side of the damage spectrum based off your health percentage. Overall reduced incoming condition duration is the right solution, and a balanced one.

Countless

Diamond skin -40%
Hoelbrak – 20%
Tier 2 earth trait -33% cripple/chill/immob

result…

kitten yh kitten -93% cripple/chill/immob

Again this is seriously a L2P issue. If your build cannot deal ~1500 power damage your build is simply bad and you should feel bad.

Trigr.6481:

Solution: Diamond skin – Reduces the duration of all incoming conditions by 40%

I don’t think that’s a good solution because it doesn’t offer counterplay. It’s just a passive effect, which isn’t very interesting. It’s also a little too strong number-wise stacked with other condition duration reductions. I still think the best solution follows:

Diamond Skin: Gain Resistance for 4 seconds when attuning to Earth.

The counterplay here is to either strip the Resistance or to condition burst the Elementalist after the boon has run out while Earth Attunement is on cooldown. This also rewards effective play on the Elementalist’s part better, as they can counter an incoming condition burst by saving Earth and swapping to it when it hits.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Again this is seriously a L2P issue. If your build cannot deal ~1500 power damage your build is simply bad and you should feel bad.

Can you deal that ~1500 power damage before the Ele heals it all back up?

A pure power build can fail to do that, especially with boosted Protection. A 2k hit (easy for non-crits, and even many smaller crits) fails to break that threshold. The ele basically farts and pops up to full again.

nearlight.3064:

sephiroth.4217:

My thoughts???

My thoughts is that Diamond Skin is utterly useless. THE ONLY REASON it’s effective, is because Tempest Aura builds that spit out protection and heals. The protection is the bloody problem.

Protection on Tempest build is 40%.

40% reduced damage. Take Earth for another 10%. Frost Auras for ANOTHER 10%. Scrapper Runes for another 7%.

-67% physical damage, heal abuse and immunity conditions.

Diamond skin IS NOT the problem. It’s just part of it. The real issue is nearly 3/4 damage is negated passively as a permanent bonus.

If we could rework the trait lines a little on earth and remove that passive -10% damage reduction, maybe some condition builds will have more success at breaking that 10% health pool to apply conditions. Ontop of that, if we remove protection when applying an Aura at the given state that an Ele can dispense them, that would remove the permanent uptime on protection which is essentially 40% damage negation. I’m sure that much of a drop in direct damage intake would allow for more condition builds to shine and even stand a chance.

Tempest is in a perfectly balanced spot right now aside from a couple bad traits and afew warhorn skills. Nerfing it much at all would make it totally useless, while buffing it more than the underpowered stuff it was would make it overpowered.

I don’t see whats wrong playing a SUPPORT build that hits like a wet nooddle that can take a lot of punishment from damage reduction. You also can’t have perma-protection on D/F without using earth overload off cooldown or durability runes (so no scrapper runes) which not every build will want at all. Warhorn is underrated but strong since it lets you have more consistent perma protection without needing to overload earth off cooldown or run boon duration runes.

Also in general, the other reason that tempest is balanced is because of the tradeoff between powerful auras and cleansing wave. If you run powerful auras you get lots of shocking aura on teammates and perma protection on teammates, but you lose almost all your cleanse, so you’re forced to take diamond skin. Cleansing wave with invigorating torrents and soldier runes is so much AoE cleansing for a team that it makes diamond skin look like a cheap parlor trick (and you get to take stone heart too). I can guarantee thats what most tempests will bandwagon too if diamond skin gets nerfed.

They hit harder then a wet noodle, I managed to hit a tempest for 2.5k using eviscrate (full adrenaline bar and intel sigil) as a berserker amulet gs/axe sheild warrior.sure it didnt crit because of stone heart, butIf I was to hang around I am sure the ele would of out dps me. That isn’t right at all. Fair point warrior is in a crappy spot but still, bunker/support builds should not deal more dps then high dps builds/amulets.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Again this is seriously a L2P issue. If your build cannot deal ~1500 power damage your build is simply bad and you should feel bad.

Can you deal that ~1500 power damage before the Ele heals it all back up?

A pure power build can fail to do that, especially with boosted Protection. A 2k hit (easy for non-crits, and even many smaller crits) fails to break that threshold. The ele basically farts and pops up to full again.

If you fail to do 1500 damage with a pure power build all hope is lost for you and you might be better suited for pve.

Also 2k hits break the treshold.

Also, have you heard of CC and interrupts? No? Maybe go back to PVE.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Trigr.6481:

Solution: Diamond skin – Reduces the duration of all incoming conditions by 40%

I don’t think that’s a good solution because it doesn’t offer counterplay. It’s just a passive effect, which isn’t very interesting. It’s also a little too strong number-wise stacked with other condition duration reductions. I still think the best solution follows:

Diamond Skin: Gain Resistance for 4 seconds when attuning to Earth.

The counterplay here is to either strip the Resistance or to condition burst the Elementalist after the boon has run out while Earth Attunement is on cooldown. This also rewards effective play on the Elementalist’s part better, as they can counter an incoming condition burst by saving Earth and swapping to it when it hits.

I like this idea.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Again this is seriously a L2P issue. If your build cannot deal ~1500 power damage your build is simply bad and you should feel bad.

Can you deal that ~1500 power damage before the Ele heals it all back up?

A pure power build can fail to do that, especially with boosted Protection. A 2k hit (easy for non-crits, and even many smaller crits) fails to break that threshold. The ele basically farts and pops up to full again.

If you fail to do 1500 damage with a pure power build all hope is lost for you and you might be better suited for pve.

Also 2k hits break the treshold.

Also, have you heard of CC and interrupts? No? Maybe go back to PVE.

Im gonna take reaper as an example. Reapers have a grand total of 2 cc’s that can hit an ele. One of them is an elite with a second channel time and an incredible huge tell when you’re casting it. The other being the nr 5 on reaper shroud which basicly acts like a mini-stun. The rest of your cc comes from fears which takes me back to my original statement. If fear acts as an effect instad of a condi that would solve all issues. But as fear cant be applied and eles can just dodge / stunbreak more than you can cc to actually apply dmg in order to break the 1.7k dmg needed its kinda silly.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

nearlight.3064:

sephiroth.4217:

My thoughts???

My thoughts is that Diamond Skin is utterly useless. THE ONLY REASON it’s effective, is because Tempest Aura builds that spit out protection and heals. The protection is the bloody problem.

Protection on Tempest build is 40%.

40% reduced damage. Take Earth for another 10%. Frost Auras for ANOTHER 10%. Scrapper Runes for another 7%.

-67% physical damage, heal abuse and immunity conditions.

Diamond skin IS NOT the problem. It’s just part of it. The real issue is nearly 3/4 damage is negated passively as a permanent bonus.

If we could rework the trait lines a little on earth and remove that passive -10% damage reduction, maybe some condition builds will have more success at breaking that 10% health pool to apply conditions. Ontop of that, if we remove protection when applying an Aura at the given state that an Ele can dispense them, that would remove the permanent uptime on protection which is essentially 40% damage negation. I’m sure that much of a drop in direct damage intake would allow for more condition builds to shine and even stand a chance.

Tempest is in a perfectly balanced spot right now aside from a couple bad traits and afew warhorn skills. Nerfing it much at all would make it totally useless, while buffing it more than the underpowered stuff it was would make it overpowered.

I don’t see whats wrong playing a SUPPORT build that hits like a wet nooddle that can take a lot of punishment from damage reduction. You also can’t have perma-protection on D/F without using earth overload off cooldown or durability runes (so no scrapper runes) which not every build will want at all. Warhorn is underrated but strong since it lets you have more consistent perma protection without needing to overload earth off cooldown or run boon duration runes.

Also in general, the other reason that tempest is balanced is because of the tradeoff between powerful auras and cleansing wave. If you run powerful auras you get lots of shocking aura on teammates and perma protection on teammates, but you lose almost all your cleanse, so you’re forced to take diamond skin. Cleansing wave with invigorating torrents and soldier runes is so much AoE cleansing for a team that it makes diamond skin look like a cheap parlor trick (and you get to take stone heart too). I can guarantee thats what most tempests will bandwagon too if diamond skin gets nerfed.

They hit harder then a wet noodle, I managed to hit a tempest for 2.5k using eviscrate (full adrenaline bar and intel sigil) as a berserker amulet gs/axe sheild warrior.sure it didnt crit because of stone heart, butIf I was to hang around I am sure the ele would of out dps me. That isn’t right at all. Fair point warrior is in a crappy spot but still, bunker/support builds should not deal more dps then high dps builds/amulets.

By the time that matchup would have swayed in either way someone from another team should have been able to plus the fight. Tempest can hold nodes well in 1v1s but can’t kill anything in 1v1s in a reasonable time frame except for dragonhunter with reflects, so you can’t assault nodes by yourself.

I think that’s balanced, because it’s functionally more similar to bunker guard of old in providing teamfight support and a bit or extra AoE damage, but it’s not some goddess of 1v1s like the old d/d ele or older cele engi. They’re not even close in power. Tempest is a support spec, and that’s what it’s good at. Put it in a team that can take cant age of its support and sustain and it will fail hard.

Also there are quite a few ways you can avoid stone heart (wait for him to swap out of earth after overloading due to the 20 second CD on earth then) Moa him, or chill him and watch him melt if diamond skin is broken. Tempest is fairly weak to focus fire compared to other support specs, and Sonia Druid, which I think is a fair trade off.

Loop.8106:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Again this is seriously a L2P issue. If your build cannot deal ~1500 power damage your build is simply bad and you should feel bad.

Can you deal that ~1500 power damage before the Ele heals it all back up?

A pure power build can fail to do that, especially with boosted Protection. A 2k hit (easy for non-crits, and even many smaller crits) fails to break that threshold. The ele basically farts and pops up to full again.

If you fail to do 1500 damage with a pure power build all hope is lost for you and you might be better suited for pve.

Also 2k hits break the treshold.

Also, have you heard of CC and interrupts? No? Maybe go back to PVE.

Im gonna take reaper as an example. Reapers have a grand total of 2 cc’s that can hit an ele. One of them is an elite with a second channel time and an incredible huge tell when you’re casting it. The other being the nr 5 on reaper shroud which basicly acts like a mini-stun. The rest of your cc comes from fears which takes me back to my original statement. If fear acts as an effect instad of a condi that would solve all issues. But as fear cant be applied and eles can just dodge / stunbreak more than you can cc to actually apply dmg in order to break the 1.7k dmg needed its kinda silly.

Such cute argument, like Reaper needs Fear to kill a non DS Ele.

Just put your perma chill on, and you get a freekill against any none DS Ele, no matter how many condi cleanse they have.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Again this is seriously a L2P issue. If your build cannot deal ~1500 power damage your build is simply bad and you should feel bad.

Can you deal that ~1500 power damage before the Ele heals it all back up?

A pure power build can fail to do that, especially with boosted Protection. A 2k hit (easy for non-crits, and even many smaller crits) fails to break that threshold. The ele basically farts and pops up to full again.

If you fail to do 1500 damage with a pure power build all hope is lost for you and you might be better suited for pve.

Also 2k hits break the treshold.

Also, have you heard of CC and interrupts? No? Maybe go back to PVE.

2k after the 40% reduction from Protection is only 1.2k actual damage dealt, which gives the ele another 300 health before DS is broken.

You also failed entirely to read what I said. Even as a pure Power build, you’re not guaranteed to break it quickly as not all of your hits will crit. Heck, even a Gravedigger that fails to crit can potentially not break that threshold once you factor in Protection (and either Earth or Frost aura’s damage reduction). You get unlucky by not critting, and they’re still above that threshold. Some of the weaker attacks (not many), even critting won’t break it. But as a Power build? You usually don’t care, because Diamond Skin isn’t really doing anything to stop you anyway.

CC and interrupts are things, yes, and they get used. But how do you stop the instant-cast heals from shouts with aura healing? Or the cantrips that core D/D Ele uses?

Do I think Diamond Skin is unbeatable? Heck no. I think it’s godawful design that needs an overhaul. I want to see it changed so that it’s buffed drastically in teamfights and against Power builds, but gives condi builds an opening to do anything at all to the ele running it.

Diamond Skin needs to have its health threshold removed, but with that, a change in how its protection works as a whole. Again, we have the Resistance boon now. This is a tool ANet has to work with when altering things in the game. Making Diamond Skin grant Resistance on some particular trigger (not a health threshold!) will let it be useful in far more circumstances than just “I’m fighting a condi build that doesn’t have friends around.”

You don’t need to crit to break DS.

Y’all need to L2P seriously. NONE of the professional players have any issue with this.

Sunshine.5014:

Loop.8106:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Again this is seriously a L2P issue. If your build cannot deal ~1500 power damage your build is simply bad and you should feel bad.

Can you deal that ~1500 power damage before the Ele heals it all back up?

A pure power build can fail to do that, especially with boosted Protection. A 2k hit (easy for non-crits, and even many smaller crits) fails to break that threshold. The ele basically farts and pops up to full again.

If you fail to do 1500 damage with a pure power build all hope is lost for you and you might be better suited for pve.

Also 2k hits break the treshold.

Also, have you heard of CC and interrupts? No? Maybe go back to PVE.

Im gonna take reaper as an example. Reapers have a grand total of 2 cc’s that can hit an ele. One of them is an elite with a second channel time and an incredible huge tell when you’re casting it. The other being the nr 5 on reaper shroud which basicly acts like a mini-stun. The rest of your cc comes from fears which takes me back to my original statement. If fear acts as an effect instad of a condi that would solve all issues. But as fear cant be applied and eles can just dodge / stunbreak more than you can cc to actually apply dmg in order to break the 1.7k dmg needed its kinda silly.

Such cute argument, like Reaper needs Fear to kill a non DS Ele.

Just put your perma chill on, and you get a freekill against any none DS Ele, no matter how many condi cleanse they have.

Which again brings me back to my OP. The fact that this trait is as much hit or miss as it it is just poor design tbh. Chill is basicly the way to kill eles (Especially as chill reapers) but if it cant be applied you dont really have alot to do.

There should not be traits that completly kittenS on builds such as this do. Its kinda like having a grandmaster trait that lets you see through invis, or have 100% block chance above 90% hp.

To all the posts regarding a l2p issue. I did not say that this trait is broken and overpowered, i say that it needs some looking at. I dont say that DS eles are unkillable because they really arent (With the right kind of rotations) but for anyone playing a condi build in yolo-queue thats not the easiest thing.)

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

You don’t need to crit to break DS.

Y’all need to L2P seriously. NONE of the professional players have any issue with this.

You surveyed them all?

I’d wager that many of them do have an issue with it. Not in its strength, but on its polar nature. It’s either winning the fight for you, or worthless. I’d bet that most high level players would like to see it become more applicable against Power builds and in teamfights (conditions are big deals in both), and would happily trade the auto-win vs. condition builds to get it.

That said, neither of us will know.

meow one twenty.4376:

Sunshine.5014:

I’m honestly fine with that, as long as the trait is only available to classes with 11k base HP.

Let’s be real, only Ele’s deserve a trait like this. And it shouldn’t compete with Diamond Skin either.

Makes more sense for guardian though, but it has enough invulnerabilities as it is. Then again so does ele with armor is earth, mist form, and obsidian flesh.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

You don’t need to crit to break DS.

Y’all need to L2P seriously. NONE of the professional players have any issue with this.

You surveyed them all?

I’d wager that many of them do have an issue with it. Not in its strength, but on its polar nature. It’s either winning the fight for you, or worthless. I’d bet that most high level players would like to see it become more applicable against Power builds and in teamfights (conditions are big deals in both), and would happily trade the auto-win vs. condition builds to get it.

That said, neither of us will know.

I know a lot of high level players and most of them genuinely prefer using stone heart to diamond skin. It’s just a better trait and helps tank damage and get rezzes. The thing is it’s not a viable trait to use without cleansing water and torrents for cleansing, so many default to diamond skill of the needs of their team comp prefers powerful auras. It’s a very juicy tradeoff. And as I’ve said elsewhere, the amount of AoE cleanse that build has with stone heart tacked on makes diamond skin look irrevelant. You just can’t share shocking aura with it (or as much protection), which is something else a lot of teams highly value.

I like how the majority of people demanding for nerfs on diamond skin dont even know how ele works. So many ignorant statements here.

Agemnon.4608:

armor is earth, mist form, and obsidian flesh.

Armor of Earth is not an invulnerability skill. It’s protection + stability, that’s it.

Agemnon.4608:

meow one twenty.4376:

Sunshine.5014:

I’m honestly fine with that, as long as the trait is only available to classes with 11k base HP.

Let’s be real, only Ele’s deserve a trait like this. And it shouldn’t compete with Diamond Skin either.

Makes more sense for guardian though, but it has enough invulnerabilities as it is. Then again so does ele with armor is earth, mist form, and obsidian flesh.

Gosh, so misinformed

• Armor of Earth: stab + protection (which Ele always has anyway).
• Mist form: susceptible to condition damage, only block physical damage, lock the Ele out of all skills

Sunshine.5014:

Agemnon.4608:

meow one twenty.4376:

Sunshine.5014:

I’m honestly fine with that, as long as the trait is only available to classes with 11k base HP.

Let’s be real, only Ele’s deserve a trait like this. And it shouldn’t compete with Diamond Skin either.

Makes more sense for guardian though, but it has enough invulnerabilities as it is. Then again so does ele with armor is earth, mist form, and obsidian flesh.

Gosh, so misinformed

• Armor of Earth: stab + protection (which Ele always has anyway).
• Mist form: susceptible to condition damage, only block physical damage, lock the Ele out of all skills

This is partly true. New conditions cannot be applied to you, however the ones that have been applied to you before you used Mistform will be ticking.

ReaperJr.5967:

I like how the majority of people demanding for nerfs on diamond skin dont even know how ele works. So many ignorant statements here.

My god your stupidity amazes me.
Im gonna try to get through to you by writing the important words in caps.
We do NOT demand a NERF. We would LIKE to see a REWORK of the trait so that it CAN BE USED in more SITUATIONS. As it stands now, it’s INSTAWIN vs condi and basicly INSTALOSE vs power cause you’re giving up a grandmaster for nothing. Having it like -40% CONDITION DURATION at --→ ALL TIMES <—- would NOT be a NERF but a BUFF aswell as offer some much needed COUNTERPLAY.

I hope that clarifies this thread for you. But what do I know….

A -40% condi duratio nwould evel let me think using it…. In its curren form i don´t like it. It might counter a few dire condi builds but thats all …. And i even think its good that this counter exists.

As long as significant condition damage is added to every power type weapon.

Honestly, I’d be happy to have more hybrid weapons.

Loop.8106:

ReaperJr.5967:

I like how the majority of people demanding for nerfs on diamond skin dont even know how ele works. So many ignorant statements here.

My god your stupidity amazes me.
Im gonna try to get through to you by writing the important words in caps.
We do NOT demand a NERF. We would LIKE to see a REWORK of the trait so that it CAN BE USED in more SITUATIONS. As it stands now, it’s INSTAWIN vs condi and basicly INSTALOSE vs power cause you’re giving up a grandmaster for nothing. Having it like -40% CONDITION DURATION at ---> ALL TIMES <—- would NOT be a NERF but a BUFF aswell as offer some much needed COUNTERPLAY.

I hope that clarifies this thread for you. But what do I know….

If you stopped being a self-conscious prick maybe you would realise I wasn’t talking about you. But hey, what do I know, your guilt at work?

Also, if you bothered to read through the thread you posted, you would realise that i posted that i would rather have permanent condi duration reduction over the current ds anytime. Not that that offers more counterplay than current ds (watchu gonna do, stack condi duration? Lmfao) but hey it would be a better trait.

I wonder who’s the stupid one really?

Agemnon.4608:

meow one twenty.4376:

Sunshine.5014:

I’m honestly fine with that, as long as the trait is only available to classes with 11k base HP.

Let’s be real, only Ele’s deserve a trait like this. And it shouldn’t compete with Diamond Skin either.

Makes more sense for guardian though, but it has enough invulnerabilities as it is. Then again so does ele with armor is earth, mist form, and obsidian flesh.

What the frak are you talking about? Armor of Earth isn’t an invulnerbility, it’s just protection and stability. Typical forum whiner.