Guild Wars 2

Ancestral Grace

Healing: 1,610 (1.0)?
Number of Targets: 5
Radius: 240
Combo Finisher: Blast
Range: 1,200
Cooldown: 15s
Ground targeted

Post BWE3 changes to druid:
Ancestral Grace is now an evade and will immediately end upon reaching your destination.

Ride the Lightning

Damage: 340 (1.00)?
Number of Targets: 5
Radius: 180
Range: 1,200
Cooldown: 40s , 20s if you hit a target.

My question is. Why is Ride the Lightning not ground targeted and an evade? Also it could be a blast finisher now when might gain is nerfed and it’s radius increased to 240 to make it better in combat since now it’s used for movement most of the time.

I like the idea of ride the lightning being ground targeted, opens up options. However I’m not sure adding yet another blast finisher to dagger offhand, which already has 2, is such a great idea though.

After plenty of nerfs, an evade would be nice.

Just get rid of the kitten cool down penalty if it’s evaded/blocked. Stop punishing us for using it as a gap closer, as intended.

If I was a mod I’d delete threads like these straight out…

For the thousandth time, it makes absolutely ZERO sense to compare skills across professions. Especially to ele.

None.

At all.

Bit strong handed Gokil.

Whilst you have a point that you cannot straight up compare a skill of one class to another arbitrarily out of context and come to a meaningful conclusion, this should by no means preclude future discussion about the evolution of the elementalist class skills as the game moves forward – and using other classes for inspiration, well, that’s hardly a crime.

As mentioned above, I liked some of the suggestions that came from the comparison.

Humblekain.5418:

I like the idea of ride the lightning being ground targeted, opens up options. However I’m not sure adding yet another blast finisher to dagger offhand, which already has 2, is such a great idea though.

If they were to add a blast to dagger off hand you would now have 2 blasts that you can use, instead of one on a kitten cd, and a theoretical one.

May be not evasion on the skill but more of not effected by movement effect such as chill root and cripal.
A lot of skill for ele needs to be ground target even 1 skills for staff. So i would not mind seeing a new targeting chose that lets you target the ground over a player when you could target a player for a skill.

The cooldown on RTL is still the most absurd part. Sure, any comparison between skills of different classes needs to be taken with a grain of salt. But it’s ridiculous to consider that no one else has their gap closer set on a double CD when it’s negated by invuln, block, dodge, or range.

Horus.9685:

Humblekain.5418:

I like the idea of ride the lightning being ground targeted, opens up options. However I’m not sure adding yet another blast finisher to dagger offhand, which already has 2, is such a great idea though.

If they were to add a blast to dagger off hand you would now have 2 blasts that you can use, instead of one on a kitten cd, and a theoretical one.

Fair point!

The double cooldown thing simply needs to go, especially because IT IS STILL BUGGY AS KITTEN. Back then Karl and that other dev said that it’s supposed to be on short cooldown if it’s blocked or evaded. But it still goes on double cooldown in these situations.

Humblekain.5418:

Bit strong handed Gokil.

Whilst you have a point that you cannot straight up compare a skill of one class to another arbitrarily out of context and come to a meaningful conclusion, this should by no means preclude future discussion about the evolution of the elementalist class skills as the game moves forward – and using other classes for inspiration, well, that’s hardly a crime.

As mentioned above, I liked some of the suggestions that came from the comparison.

It’s because I’ve seen too much of this stuff.

In essence this always boils down to the kindergarten argument of ‘x has nice things, why can’t i have nice things, I want nice things!’

You’re not using other classes for inspiration. Let me quote the original post: “My question is. Why is Ride the Lightning not ground targeted and an evade?”

Like seriously? I was considering listing 10 reasons why, but that felt so stupid that I expressed the feeling of wanting to not have this idiocy in my life.

As for the thread, the RtL thing has been beaten to death, revived, cloned, beaten to death twice over again, warbannered, slapped to death, rallied, slowly boiled to death, and then stomped. It’s not going to happen. That’s fine. RtL is fine. I’m fine and you’re fine. I’m not going to get into a discussion about if it’s right or not, the way it is now.

Gokil.2543:

Humblekain.5418:

Bit strong handed Gokil.

Whilst you have a point that you cannot straight up compare a skill of one class to another arbitrarily out of context and come to a meaningful conclusion, this should by no means preclude future discussion about the evolution of the elementalist class skills as the game moves forward – and using other classes for inspiration, well, that’s hardly a crime.

As mentioned above, I liked some of the suggestions that came from the comparison.

It’s because I’ve seen too much of this stuff.

In essence this always boils down to the kindergarten argument of ‘x has nice things, why can’t i have nice things, I want nice things!’

You’re not using other classes for inspiration. Let me quote the original post: “My question is. Why is Ride the Lightning not ground targeted and an evade?”

Like seriously? I was considering listing 10 reasons why, but that felt so stupid that I expressed the feeling of wanting to not have this idiocy in my life.

As for the thread, the RtL thing has been beaten to death, revived, cloned, beaten to death twice over again, warbannered, slapped to death, rallied, slowly boiled to death, and then stomped. It’s not going to happen. That’s fine. RtL is fine. I’m fine and you’re fine. I’m not going to get into a discussion about if it’s right or not, the way it is now.

Thing is, we are making a mostly fair comparison between two very similar skills. Granted I don’t want everything on there, blast finisher is something I don’t need and I think would not fit the skill. I’d rather churning earth be made like dragon tooth instead of something you will never want to press. Having a useless skill is never a good thing, churning earth should be a cast then delayed explosion similar to dragon tooth.

I do think that ground target would be great and would be more of a quality of life change. The evade is a straight up buff but certainly not one that is without reason considering if reach your destination there goes your evade. And if you were using it to get away you were making use of the skill’s dual purpose.

If they fixed blocking/evading = half cooldown that would be great but somewhat normalizing rtl to 30 sec cooldown with 15 if you hit/stopped at an evade/block would be totally fair with the power creep being clearly seen in HoT.

Generally. 1) Make churning earth like dragon tooth. 2) RtL needs to be ground targeted. 3) RtL should probably have an evade like this very very similar skill

Optional imo: 30 sec cooldown with 15 sec if you hit with it or the opponent evaded/blocked it. This is to give the skill some downside when used to get away but a definite incentive to use it as a gap closer.

Gokil.2543:

If I was a mod I’d delete threads like these straight out…

For the thousandth time, it makes absolutely ZERO sense to compare skills across professions. Especially to ele.

None.

At all.

Being wrong a thousand times doesn’t make you right. I can compare them and I will:

Ancestral grace is a good skill, rtl is not.

Senario.2038:

Thing is, we are making a mostly fair comparison between two very similar skills. Granted I don’t want everything on there, blast finisher is something I don’t need and I think would not fit the skill. I’d rather churning earth be made like dragon tooth instead of something you will never want to press. Having a useless skill is never a good thing, churning earth should be a cast then delayed explosion similar to dragon tooth.

I do think that ground target would be great and would be more of a quality of life change. The evade is a straight up buff but certainly not one that is without reason considering if reach your destination there goes your evade. And if you were using it to get away you were making use of the skill’s dual purpose.

If they fixed blocking/evading = half cooldown that would be great but somewhat normalizing rtl to 30 sec cooldown with 15 if you hit/stopped at an evade/block would be totally fair with the power creep being clearly seen in HoT.

Generally. 1) Make churning earth like dragon tooth. 2) RtL needs to be ground targeted. 3) RtL should probably have an evade like this very very similar skill

Optional imo: 30 sec cooldown with 15 sec if you hit with it or the opponent evaded/blocked it. This is to give the skill some downside when used to get away but a definite incentive to use it as a gap closer.

It seems I’m not getting my point across.

A mostly fair comparison you say:
-Ele has twice as many weapon skills.
-Druid is a healer/support spec, so having your mobility target an enemy makes no sense. On top of that, staff is a ranged weapon, so gap closing makes little sense.
-Ele’s defensive mechanics are boons, auras anx healing. —-Ranger’s defensive mechanic is mostly weapon skill evasion, along with powerful but optional defensive traits
-Staff on druid lacked some proper defense. D/D ele does not.

To me this comparison is no less absurd than comparing bladetrail o’ warrior gs to meteor shower.

As much as I’d like an evade in RtL, I think a more reasonable approach that may actually becomes implemented is RtL having a 10s-15s cooldown reduction (30s-25s when not hitting a target).

Strangely, all of Reventant’s mist skills were made into evades because you can’t cancel them or dodge while the animation plays out.

Exactly like RTL.

If RTL was made ground targeted with it’s current effective radius, the CD shenanigans would HAVE to go. Trying to anticipate a moving enemy at max range with a circle that small would be incredibly frustrating.

i agree with Gokil. you cant compare skills across professions that easily. i mean rtl and rush are way more similar than rtl and ancestral grace but they were balanced differently. there were a lot of people wanting a rush nerf like rtl but that doesnt work for the warrior class. the rtl change was stupid i agree on that but if rtl becomes a ground targeted evade on a 15 second cooldown why would rush not be one too? this would make a lot of skills way too similar. rtl needs change i agree on that, im no ele main so i have no right to argue how it needs to be changed but as Gokil said the kindergarden argument doesnt help here.

I also agree it’s a false comparison. The closest skill is actually http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rush as golden pointed out.

Which as you can see does does similar damage, has no evade, and also locks you into an animation. The only thing you can possibly draw from this is that rtl should have a 20 second cooldown.

Daniel Handler.4816:

I also agree it’s a false comparison. The closest skill is actually http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rush as golden pointed out.

Which as you can see does does similar damage, has no evade, and also locks you into an animation. The only thing you can possibly draw from this is that rtl should have a 20 second cooldown.

It also is not one of the skills associated with power creep from the expansion. Just because another skill is also similarly close does not mean the first isn’t a close enough comparison.

That said, ground targeting may not be needed but that cooldown is kinda bad without fixing the evade/block bug. And honestly I think 30/15 is a lot better point of balance

Would be nice if Warhorn had a RTL equivalent on air skill 4, like if you teleported into the cyclone.

Xillllix.3485:

Would be nice if Warhorn had a RTL equivalent on air skill 4, like if you teleported into the cyclone.

THe ball from the ball lightning (warhorn air 5) should chain into a skill that lets you teleport to it. It does pitiful damage anyway might as well give it some mobility.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Xillllix.3485:

Would be nice if Warhorn had a RTL equivalent on air skill 4, like if you teleported into the cyclone.

THe ball from the ball lightning (warhorn air 5) should chain into a skill that lets you teleport to it. It does pitiful damage anyway might as well give it some mobility.

This is a super cool idea!

Gokil.2543:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Xillllix.3485:

Would be nice if Warhorn had a RTL equivalent on air skill 4, like if you teleported into the cyclone.

THe ball from the ball lightning (warhorn air 5) should chain into a skill that lets you teleport to it. It does pitiful damage anyway might as well give it some mobility.

This is a super cool idea!

It would be similar to our underwater air skill actually. I would like that, but it would have to move faster.

Gokil.2543:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Xillllix.3485:

Would be nice if Warhorn had a RTL equivalent on air skill 4, like if you teleported into the cyclone.

THe ball from the ball lightning (warhorn air 5) should chain into a skill that lets you teleport to it. It does pitiful damage anyway might as well give it some mobility.

This is a super cool idea!

Pitiful damage? You realise that it hits 12 times against single targets? What are you even taking about?

The Ace.9105:

Ancestral Grace

Healing: 1,610 (1.0)?
Number of Targets: 5
Radius: 240
Combo Finisher: Blast
Range: 1,200
Cooldown: 15s
Ground targeted

Post BWE3 changes to druid:
Ancestral Grace is now an evade and will immediately end upon reaching your destination.

Ride the Lightning

Damage: 340 (1.00)?
Number of Targets: 5
Radius: 180
Range: 1,200
Cooldown: 40s , 20s if you hit a target.

My question is. Why is Ride the Lightning not ground targeted and an evade? Also it could be a blast finisher now when might gain is nerfed and it’s radius increased to 240 to make it better in combat since now it’s used for movement most of the time.

You’re going to kitten and moan about rangers, one of the weakest classes, and a skill on one of the crappiest weapons, the staff?

Come on, at least look at warriors or thief who still have far better mobility.

Point is, everything about ele is balanced around cele d/d PvP QQ. It’s that simple.

Lots of broken weapons and no ele can play without water/arcana, ele can’t play berzerker stats in PvP unlike thief and mesmer, but because cele d/d exists ele will never get fixes in any game format.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Gokil.2543:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Xillllix.3485:

Would be nice if Warhorn had a RTL equivalent on air skill 4, like if you teleported into the cyclone.

THe ball from the ball lightning (warhorn air 5) should chain into a skill that lets you teleport to it. It does pitiful damage anyway might as well give it some mobility.

This is a super cool idea!

Pitiful damage? You realise that it hits 12 times against single targets? What are you even taking about?

When did you get 12 hits on a target out of that thing? Every enemy easily sidesteps it or the orb itself moves out of range of them after like… 3-4 shots.

I would fully support RTL get an evade. It’d make thematic sense for the same reason it made sense on Ancestral Grace (you can’t really damage energy) and give the skill a little extra something.

Anything else, though… no.

Ancestral Grace needs to be ground-targeted because its main purpose is repositioning and healing allies. Neither of which you could do at all if it was enemy-targeted. RTL is primarily a damaging gap closer, so its just fine being enemy targeted.

As for a blast finisher, ugh. I am utterly sick and tired of the incessant begging for more and more and more blast finishers on Ele. Eles have plenty of blast finishers already. I swear some Eles won’t be happy until literally every skill they have is a blast finisher.

Khalic.3561:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Gokil.2543:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Xillllix.3485:

Would be nice if Warhorn had a RTL equivalent on air skill 4, like if you teleported into the cyclone.

THe ball from the ball lightning (warhorn air 5) should chain into a skill that lets you teleport to it. It does pitiful damage anyway might as well give it some mobility.

This is a super cool idea!

Pitiful damage? You realise that it hits 12 times against single targets? What are you even taking about?

When did you get 12 hits on a target out of that thing? Every enemy easily sidesteps it or the orb itself moves out of range of them after like… 3-4 shots.

Use it with cyclone and use it from 600 range. The orb moves about 300 range per 1.25 seconds. Firing at one projectile per 1/4 of a second you will always get 12 bolts if you keep them lock down. 1 on entering the 300 range, 5 as it moves between 300 and the target, 5 more as it moves between the target and the 300 range away, and 1 as it moves out of range.

If a character is running away on a straight line and you use it from melee range as they begin to flee they will either have to change trajectory (which brings you closer to them) or they have the potential of being hit 20 times.

In PvP when people are in capture points if they don’t leave the point or dodge (which only evades 3 projectiles) they will be hit for the full twelve.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Gokil.2543:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Xillllix.3485:

Would be nice if Warhorn had a RTL equivalent on air skill 4, like if you teleported into the cyclone.

THe ball from the ball lightning (warhorn air 5) should chain into a skill that lets you teleport to it. It does pitiful damage anyway might as well give it some mobility.

This is a super cool idea!

Pitiful damage? You realise that it hits 12 times against single targets? What are you even taking about?

No, no it does not. You’ll be happy if it hits even one moving target…

Daniel Handler.4816:

Khalic.3561:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Gokil.2543:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Xillllix.3485:

Would be nice if Warhorn had a RTL equivalent on air skill 4, like if you teleported into the cyclone.

THe ball from the ball lightning (warhorn air 5) should chain into a skill that lets you teleport to it. It does pitiful damage anyway might as well give it some mobility.

This is a super cool idea!

Pitiful damage? You realise that it hits 12 times against single targets? What are you even taking about?

When did you get 12 hits on a target out of that thing? Every enemy easily sidesteps it or the orb itself moves out of range of them after like… 3-4 shots.

Use it with cyclone and use it from 600 range. The orb moves about 300 range per 1.25 seconds. Firing at one projectile per 1/4 of a second you will always get 12 bolts if you keep them lock down. 1 on entering the 300 range, 5 as it moves between 300 and the target, 5 more as it moves between the target and the 300 range away, and 1 as it moves out of range.

If a character is running away on a straight line and you use it from melee range as they begin to flee they will either have to change trajectory (which brings you closer to them) or they have the potential of being hit 20 times.

In PvP when people are in capture points if they don’t leave the point or dodge (which only evades 3 projectiles) they will be hit for the full twelve.

Yeah, this won’t happen in PvE because if you are at 600 range:

1) You only do it when opening up an encounter
2) You won’t do it again because at 600 range you can’t hit with lightning whip, your main source of sustained DPS in PvE on a dagger build.

Virtually most of warhorn skills are eclipsed by what the focus has to offer defensively or the dagger offensively.

It’s this weird mediocre medium spot with gimmicky traveling/cascading abilities that don’t mesh with a melee spec or less mobile targets such as those in PvE. It really excels at nothing and worst of all is a hybrid weapon since it has burning on fire, power damage on air, and the rest are CC skills that don’t even do much against mobs with a breakbar and come on a huge cd.

At this point I don’t ever see the appeal of taking warhorn over focus on a dagger build for PvE team support. The dagger/focus provides 3 projectile defenses (swirling wind, magnetic aura, ring of earth), damage immunity, condition cleanse, aoe daze+blast finisher, ranged knockdown+long chill, fire attunement focus being the weakest but having the plus of being low cd high duration fire fields compared to warhorn.

And if they ever make offhand dagger churning earth behave like dragon tooth so its usable in PvE, offhand dagger will be the offensive option of choice.

What is warhorn for other than a signet of inspiration on a longer cooldown, no mobility, weaker defensives, weaker CC, and weaker damage.

Zenith.7301:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Khalic.3561:

Daniel Handler.4816:

Gokil.2543:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Xillllix.3485:

Would be nice if Warhorn had a RTL equivalent on air skill 4, like if you teleported into the cyclone.

THe ball from the ball lightning (warhorn air 5) should chain into a skill that lets you teleport to it. It does pitiful damage anyway might as well give it some mobility.

This is a super cool idea!

Pitiful damage? You realise that it hits 12 times against single targets? What are you even taking about?

When did you get 12 hits on a target out of that thing? Every enemy easily sidesteps it or the orb itself moves out of range of them after like… 3-4 shots.

Use it with cyclone and use it from 600 range. The orb moves about 300 range per 1.25 seconds. Firing at one projectile per 1/4 of a second you will always get 12 bolts if you keep them lock down. 1 on entering the 300 range, 5 as it moves between 300 and the target, 5 more as it moves between the target and the 300 range away, and 1 as it moves out of range.

If a character is running away on a straight line and you use it from melee range as they begin to flee they will either have to change trajectory (which brings you closer to them) or they have the potential of being hit 20 times.

In PvP when people are in capture points if they don’t leave the point or dodge (which only evades 3 projectiles) they will be hit for the full twelve.

Yeah, this won’t happen in PvE because if you are at 600 range:

1) You only do it when opening up an encounter
2) You won’t do it again because at 600 range you can’t hit with lightning whip, your main source of sustained DPS in PvE on a dagger build.

Virtually most of warhorn skills are eclipsed by what the focus has to offer defensively or the dagger offensively.

It’s this weird mediocre medium spot with gimmicky traveling/cascading abilities that don’t mesh with a melee spec or less mobile targets such as those in PvE. It really excels at nothing and worst of all is a hybrid weapon since it has burning on fire, power damage on air, and the rest are CC skills that don’t even do much against mobs with a breakbar and come on a huge cd.

At this point I don’t ever see the appeal of taking warhorn over focus on a dagger build for PvE team support. The dagger/focus provides 3 projectile defenses (swirling wind, magnetic aura, ring of earth), damage immunity, condition cleanse, aoe daze+blast finisher, ranged knockdown+long chill, fire attunement focus being the weakest but having the plus of being low cd high duration fire fields compared to warhorn.

And if they ever make offhand dagger churning earth behave like dragon tooth so its usable in PvE, offhand dagger will be the offensive option of choice.

What is warhorn for other than a signet of inspiration on a longer cooldown, no mobility, weaker defensives, weaker CC, and weaker damage.

Clearly it finds more use with scepter than with dagger mainhand. As for offhands dagger and focus both behave terribly with enemies that can move. The speciality of tempest is mobile aoe. Yes it needs to be fleshed out, but if fixed it would be objectively better for raids as elementalist tendency is go full damage in PvE.

Ele made itself meta in all three modes because stacking was meta. If there were no capture points, if enemies in PvE moved frequently would ele still be meta?

Ele is not meta in raids and will never be unless the class can work with a build that doesn’t have you stay still all the time, doesn’t force you into melee range.

Ground Targeted rtl? Sign me up