Guild Wars 2

Lets have a discussion to predict what skill type the Tempest will get and why/how it may work.

There seems to be a lot of really negative views on the idea of the new elementalist spec, Tempest, getting warhorn. Despite this, I am incredibly excited by the idea and aim to show players why such a weapon could offer eles a completely new style of play.

The core philosophy/idea of the tempest is “Calling the Storm” or “Becoming the Storm”
Which already adds to the flavor of a warhorn.
So how can this be accomplished as a game mechanic?

Here are my predictions:

Ele resource bar: The skill predictions I have come up with center around the idea of a resource bar that I will be referring to as a “mana bar.”
This idea comes heavily from the Revenant energy bar and their vengeful hammers skill (hammers swing around the player and have an upkeep cost of energy)

Warhorn #4 Skills: Whirls/Auras/Forms
These skills are upkeep skills that persist through attunement changing.
(Either swirling around the character like vengeful hammers or changing the ele into an elemental form)

For example:
Fire Warhorn Skill 4: Create a field of fire around the user that deals damage and periodically inflicts burning. Drains mana each second (upkeep).

^ This would be the most basic example I can think of. So while in air attunement casting lightning whip, you would be dealing additional damage from your fire form.

Water Warhorn Skill 4: Create a field of water around you that heals you and nearby allies and periodically chills foes. Drains mana each second (upkeep)

Air Warhorn Skill 4: Create a static field around you that stuns foes and periodically inflicts vulnerability. Drains mana each second (upkeep)

Earth Warhorn Skill 4: Create swirling sands around you that grants you and allies additional armor/toughness and periodically applies blind to nearby foes. Drains mana each second (upkeep)

Ele’s are unique in their versatility and ability to adapt to any situation. These skills would support this fundamental strength and idea.

For instance: If you had a more healing based role in a situation, you might consider Earth 4 to keep yourself alive while aiding allies in water attunement. If a group is stacked but if taking heavy damage, you might apply Water 4 to heal yourself and allies and dps in fire attunement. (Attunement mixing in a sense)

Warhorn #5 Skills: Storm Skills
These skills would be skills that further add to the learning curve of the mana bar. These skills would have powerful effects (most likely similar to glyph of storms) but consume a large amount of the mana bar. Meaning it would be more difficult to have an upkeep skill active as well, but still maintains the idea of “calling the storm.”

Fire 5: Create a storm of fire at target location that deals heavy damage and burns foes.
(Consumes a large amount of mana)

Water 5: Create an ice storm at target location, chilling and bleeding foes.
Water 5 alternative: Create a storm of water that heals allies and chills foes.
(Consumes a large amount of mana)

Air 5: Create a storm of lightning that stuns foes and inflicts vulnerability
(Consumes a large amount of mana)

Earth 5: Create a sand storm that blinds foes
Earth 5 alternative: Create quicksand at target location, pulling foes and slowing them.
(Consumes a large amount of mana)

Misconceptions:

• Warhorn is a support weapon: Nothing says it has to be.
• Warhorn must be an offhand: Weapon damage can be modified for main hand.
• Warhorn is a lame weapon: Sounding the call of war or the fury of a storm, lame? It all depends on how you imagine it.

One final crazy speculation:
Perhaps ele melee skills were found because the warhorn changes main-hand dagger skills to be physical (similar to thief 3 sills). This idea is really far fetched, but feel free to comment.

I know that these are a bit of a stretch, but I hope this thread will open people up more to the idea of a warhorn. Most of these skills fall apart without the idea of a resource bar, but i’ve had fun speculating. So i’m happy to hear what people think and encourage people to post their own speculations.

Warhorn will be bad, 99.99% sure it will be the joke spec that everyone laughs about and no one uses. It will be that bad.

I really hope the forum gathers around this concept and truly shows our disgust with having a joke spec and manages to convince ANET to at least give us something midly interesting…. I doubt it, but hey they managed to get Revenant a weapon swap so that they can switch from ranged to melee like all other classes (except ele of course cause we can’t have any variation), so maybe we can have something nice if we show we are angry about it.

Despite the above, I will entertain this topic just for the sake of it.

The idea of mana to use the weapon doesn’t seem like a good idea with what you posted and I would say it would be such a drastic change to the class that either this would need to affect the class as a whole – meaning we would be just like the revenant or it would create a mess with mana skills and CD skills.

Think about it, by making 5 cost so much mana to use, you essentially put every 5 skill on a cooldown, so it either has to be as powerful as activating 4 skills or it is just bad…. aka you would need to make it like an elite (a real elite and not an ele “elite”).

Also, you give a lot of fields, that’s great and all, but let’s not forget the only way we would be able to blast those fields or combo with them would be with Evasive Arcane on earth or Dagger Water 3, and with certain or Scepter Fire 2/3 (which are a bit iffy to blast fields) and Scepter Earth 1 to give a projectile combo -meaning very very few options.

So either you have only 1 weapon skill as means to blast them with some level of control (Dagger Water 3), or you have to be up close with Scepter which is often ill advised.

My take with tempest and what I think is the only way they can give us a new mechanic would be to give us something akin to an adrenaline bar. I see no other way around it.

Basically the adrenaline bar would fill up similar to a warrior adrenaline bar and then we would have our “Storm” through an F5 burst skill button. These burst skills would likely work as something like you suggest for the weapon 5 skill, but again with a reduced effect to not be so powerful, as, after all, it couldn’t become just another Glyph of Storms otherwise it just makes the skill redundant (which don’t get me wrong glyphs already are, but still, just adding salt to the injury).

And if we really really end up with such a joke of a specialization (aka warhorn), I hope they at least give us some decent warhorn skills that serve to compensate for the loss of blasting combos.

I see us just getting a similar style of weapon to ranger Warhorn, meaning each skill 4 would be a small attack with some “stormy” animation, but in essence just a mid range attack – with any luck small AOE around the targeta nd each skill 5 would be just the buff of the appropriate element, so Fire would give fury and might (some stacks), water regen and vigor, air fury and swiftness and earth would give us protection and resistance/retaliation (would prefer resistance).

Skills I really don’t know, it would probably be shouts, hopefully some of them would be able to blast stuff so that you could use the spec without needing the crappy warhorn and just get the shout to have some buff / blast options, it still seems like it would be worst then cantrips, but meh, its something.

Traits is also something I have no idea of, probably 1 of the traits would be designed to give you passive bonuses as you have a closer to full adrenaline bar or something good when using the F5 (aka exactly like it works for warrior), another for shouts (again we would end up being a lot like a shout warrior) and 3 one designed to enhance warhorn stuff, maybe.

love how players judge warhorn before even seeing it an action, can i get a ’ elitist! ’ around here

Arobain.8274:

love how players judge warhorn before even seeing it an action, can i get a ’ elitist! ’ around here

Well at the very least I commented on the topic….. maybe you could comment on the ideas as well…. just a thought.

And you know what, I will indulge you more.

As OP mentioned, if Warhorn was not an off-hand this might be more interesting.

We could have it as a mid-range condi weapon that instead of fighting with shouts, it works through summons, not actually minion summons, but the animations will act as summons.

E.g., the auto-attack of fire could be a fire imp that sprouts near the target and inflicts small damage and burning, lightning an imp that jumps around targets inflicting vulnerability, water a jumping imp on allies (heals them), earth an imp that inflicts bleeding.

Weapon 3 would feel more like a storm, so Fire would create a fire field that inflicts small damage and burning on anyone in it, water inflicts small damage and freezes enemies (and gives regen to allies?), lightning inflicts knockdown and vulnerability, earth inflicts bleeding and blind.

Weapon 2 I am not too sure right now what it could do, but something not so grand like 3 but that helps to apply further conditions, so maybe air could be something that inflicts weakness and vulnerability, earth inflicts greater stacks of bleeding, water could inflict chill / slow, fire would inflict just more burn stacks.

This may be a bit too much / over the place, but maybe we could end the day with Dagger for Celestial spec, Scepter for Burst spec (once it gets fixed), warhorn for condi spec.

I would probably still reject warhorn as I don’t like to play as a condi build, but at least this way each weapon would keep it’s niche.

Warhorn main hand. Just imagine the chaos….

“As I blow into my magical horn, what appears to be…what is this?! A METEOR?!”

Looking forward to whatever weapon they give my ele.

I’m more excited for the off chance that the old datamining means we get autoattack chains. I’ll find a way to use the tempest skill tree and keep my dual daggers.

8 fire shields. All with 2 minute cooldowns.

I don’t really see how d/wh could be better than d/d or d/f but we’ll have to wait and see that.

People need to jump on to my idea that wathorn will bring with it conjure tempest blade skills. Why else do we have data mined elemental based sword skills and datamined warhorn skin. We are getting sword via conjure

I believe Tempest will focus on remaining in a single element for longer rather than swapping, fitting with the idea that elite specs are supposed to radically alter the class’s core mechanics.

All you did was make me hate warhorn even more. 4 fields, and 4 AoEs? So every attunement is identical?

How about 1 fire field, 1 invuln, 1 condi cleanse, and 5 blast finishers. That sounds good.

What I don’t like is warhorn = group support. I don’t want that. I want more solo power, or group support through damage. I already provide group support as a dd cele ele with might, heals, and condi cleanse, which I can keep with a new weapon because it’s all in my traits. I don’t want lame pointless skills like “give allies 10 seconds of swiftness and vigor” or “provide 5 seconds of fury and regen” to allies.

I want burst. I want autoattack chains. I want a sword that throws 600-900 range fireballs that also has a sweet autoattack in air so I can finally get range and Melee in one build. Scepter sucks, and dagger is old. I have everything I could possibly want in OH dagger and focus. Any weapon that beat out those two off hands will be nerfed in 2 days.

But you know if we do get warhorn, I guess I’ll have a cheap legendary that I can toot to victory.

what’s with everyone assuming we are getting warhorn?

FrownyClown.8402:

what’s with everyone assuming we are getting warhorn?

Because people seem to think a skin with a tempest motif is proof enought to be confirmed.

Ignoring the word skills that were mined. People are quick to hand wave them as “Placeholder skills with no relevance” for some reason I can’t fathom

FrownyClown.8402:

what’s with everyone assuming we are getting warhorn?

Just wait some time to see the horror for yourself.

I will honestly say I don’t know what weapon we will get, and does warhorn have to be supporty… no, but in terms of how the weapon works it would grant lots of boons, not saying that is a bad thing. but i’m a Burst Ele, and i run daggers, which i have hit mobs from 10k to 24k damage, unless anet can make warhorn do that i don’t know what to say

Drewberry.3426:

For example:
Fire Warhorn Skill 4: Create a field of fire around the user that deals damage and periodically inflicts burning. Drains mana each second (upkeep).

^ This would be the most basic example I can think of. So while in air attunement casting lightning whip, you would be dealing additional damage from your fire form.

Water Warhorn Skill 4: Create a field of water around you that heals you and nearby allies and periodically chills foes. Drains mana each second (upkeep)

Air Warhorn Skill 4: Create a static field around you that stuns foes and periodically inflicts vulnerability. Drains mana each second (upkeep)

Earth Warhorn Skill 4: Create swirling sands around you that grants you and allies additional armor/toughness and periodically applies blind to nearby foes. Drains mana each second (upkeep)
-
Fire 5: Create a storm of fire at target location that deals heavy damage and burns foes.
(Consumes a large amount of mana)

Water 5: Create an ice storm at target location, chilling and bleeding foes.
Water 5 alternative: Create a storm of water that heals allies and chills foes.
(Consumes a large amount of mana)

Air 5: Create a storm of lightning that stuns foes and inflicts vulnerability
(Consumes a large amount of mana)

Earth 5: Create a sand storm that blinds foes
Earth 5 alternative: Create quicksand at target location, pulling foes and slowing them.
(Consumes a large amount of mana)

So basically #4 A-net will create auras that do exactly what the aura does, except every second, instead of when where attacked and:
5 is glyph of storms taking 4 skills instead of 1 utility…

who would give up focus/dagger for that?

Warhorn can’t bring us anything we dont already have.

Things we don’t have (or have reasonable access to):
Evading attacks
blocks/counter attacks
stealth
weapon teleports
effective daze
auto attack chains
burst that doesn’t require rotating through multiple atunements (thats not kittening burst)

Things swords provide:
Teleports
blocks
evades
burst
auto attack chains

Things warhorn would provide:
Boons
cone aoe/ area target aoe
team support

Things we have and have had forever:
Boons
cone aoe/ area target aoe
team support

Do you see why no one wants this?

If they are borrowing a type from other profession, we’d give them a magic type of skill and something that isn’t very profession-strict such as clones or consecration, so what is left in this threshold:

- Symbols
- Wards
- Meditation
- Spirits
- Glamours
- Marks

Some of them are really similar with each other, or with wells, so I’d give a shot on either Mantras or Spirits.

Here me out folks. I’d love some feedback on this idea … even if the numbers are likely not remotely balanced, just some feedback on the concept would be awesome.

“Song” Mantras that summon “Storms” on activation, with each Storm creating their own persistent Fields.

Imagine if, like some suspect, we may get Mantras as utility/heal/elite skills, but what if they were themed around being Songs that produce an effect on allies and foes while being channeled, and then their active effects are one use only but are stronger based on the total number of allies + foes effected by the song during the wind up, leaving longer lasting fields as “storms” in the target area?

There could even be a trait in the Tempest line that grants Stability and Protection while you begin channeling a Mantra, calling it something like “Stormcaller’s Focus”. It would allow boon-stripping to remove the stability to let other players interrupt you to make it more balanced for PVP without letting interrupt spam completely screw over the concept of the skills.

Here are examples of how they could function:

Song of Soothing – Heal Mantra
3 second Channel, 1 second pulses, 15 second Reuse

Heal allies in a 600 range around you while pulsing 3s of Regeneration and moderately damaging foes while removing either Might, Retaliation, or Fury each pulse.

Charges up to become – Storm of Rejuvenation, creates a water field at the targeted location that periodically heals each second and lasts for 1 second for each ally or foe hit by Song of Soothing, up to a maximum of 10 seconds.

The above heal would give elementalists a weapon-neutral method of creating a long duration water field that rewards them for successfully healing allies and hampering the offensive boon potential of foes.

Song of Fire – Utility Mantra
3 second Channel, 1 second pulses, 15 second Reuse

Damage foes in a 600 range around you while extending the duration of Burning effects on foes by 1 second each pulse (max of 25) and granting allies Might x 2 for 15 seconds to allies each pulse.

Charges up to become – Storm of Incineration, creates a fire field at the targeted location that periodically damages foes and applies 4 seconds of Burning each second and lasts for 1 second for each ally or foe hit by Song of Fire, up to a maximum of 10 seconds.

Song of Ice – Utility Mantra
3 second Channel, 1 second pulses, 15 second Reuse

Damage foes in a 600 range around you while Chilling foes for 3 seconds each pulse and granting allies Frost Aura for 2 seconds each pulse.

Charges up to become – Storm of Hoarfrost, creates an ice field at the targeted location that periodically damages foes and applies 3 seconds of Weakness and Chill each second and lasts for 1 second for each ally or foe hit by Song of Ice, up to a maximum of 10 seconds.

Song of Sands- Utility Mantra
3 second Channel, 1 second pulses, 15 second Reuse

Damage foes in a 600 range around you while applying 2 stacks of Bleeding for 8 seconds and Blinding foes for 3 seconds each pulse and granting allies Resistance for 3 seconds each pulse.

Charges up to become – Storm of Weathering, creates an earth field at the targeted location that periodically damages foes and applies 4 seconds of Cripple and 2 stacks of Bleeding for 8 seconds each second and lasts for 1 second for each ally or foe hit by Song of Sand, up to a maximum of 10 seconds.

(earth fields would be a new field, that grants protection on Blast, Bleeds on projectiles, Magnetic Aura on leaps, and Cripple on Whirl.)

Song of Thunder – Utility Mantra
3 second Channel, 1 second pulses, 15 second Reuse

Damage foes in a 600 range around you while applying 1 second of Daze and 3 stacks of Vulnerability for 10 seconds each pulse and granting allies Superspeed and Quickness for 1 seconds each pulse.

Charges up to become – Storm of Lightning, creates a lightning field at the targeted location that periodically damages foes and applies 2 stacks of Vulnerability for 10 seconds and deals increased damage with each successful bolt, lasting for 1 second for each ally or foe hit by Song of Thunder, up to a maximum of 10 seconds.

Song of the Tempest – Utility Mantra
3 second Channel, 1 second pulses, 30 second Reuse

Damage foes in a 600 range around you, Immobilizing foes for 1 second and performing a Blast Finisher with each pulse and granting allies Stability, Resistance, and Protection for for 3 seconds each pulse.

Charges up to become – Storm of Elemental Chaos, creates a storm at the at the targeted location that periodically damages foes while applying random Boons to allies and Conditions to foes, and performs a Blast finisher every 2 seconds, lasting for 1 second for each ally or foe hit by Song of the Tempest, up to a maximum of 10 seconds.

Oh man…. no offense but I am going to bed as things get worst by the minute.

But not to just bad mouth, the biggest problem with your suggestion IMO is that you are suggesting mantras for in combat use…. the biggest advantage of mantras for mesmer is that they are instant cast once you have them ready and resetting them during a fight is something you shouldn’t have to because you are basically defenseless and dead weight during that time – not to mention easily interrupted.

Now I get that you want to make something that doesn’t make you dead weight during the channeling time, but what you offer is not enough to offset what we can already do with weapon skills while doing good damage to our foes and, most importantly, without needing to run around with someone else to be useful.

Perhaps just not the Song of the Tempest which would be the most insane thing ever – imagine someone casts a fire field and in you come and blast that fire field 10+ times…. or even worse, someone casts a water field and you blast it 10+ times.

I made an entire thread about my prediction: Mantras.

Although my idea may be too complex, in a nut shell it is:

Mantras are “Songs of (Insert Name)” that produce a beneficial effect on allies while damaging foes and producing some negative effect while channeled.

They become “Storm of (Insert Name)” that create ground targeted, persistent Storms that act as Combo Fields. Their duration is based on 1 second for each ally or foe the Song ability triggered on during its channel, maxing at 10 seconds.

So if you channeled a full Song on a single ally (yourself that is) and a single foe, for all 3 seconds, it would create a 6 second Storm on activation.

If interrupted or canceled early, the Song still becomes a Storm, but the duration will likely be quite low.

Azel.4786:

Oh man…. no offense but I am going to bed as things get worst by the minute.

But not to just bad mouth, the biggest problem with your suggestion IMO is that you are suggesting mantras for in combat use…. the biggest advantage of mantras for mesmer is that they are instant cast once you have them ready and resetting them during a fight is something you shouldn’t have to because you are basically defenseless and dead weight during that time – not to mention easily interrupted.

Now I get that you want to make something that doesn’t make you dead weight during the channeling time, but what you offer is not enough to offset what we can already do with weapon skills while doing good damage to our foes and, most importantly, without needing to run around with someone else to be useful.

Perhaps just not the Song of the Tempest which would be the most insane thing ever – imagine someone casts a fire field and in you come and blast that fire field 10+ times…. or even worse, someone casts a water field and you blast it 10+ times.

Again, numbers and effects can and should be altered, this is mostly just for the proof of concept.

Similar to how “Wells” for Mesmer are very distinct and different in use than Necromancer’s Wells, I went for a similar approach here, in that you actually want to gain a benefit for channeling the Mantras in combat to produce a beneficial / deterrent effect while still putting out some moderate damage / healing in the case of the heal.

Additionally, while not fully melee range, they do generally reward the elementalist for at least being closer to foes to gain the full effect, but can still be used to good effect from a distance, particularly if allies are present.

The heal combos well for the Water Mastery line since it gives us a method of applying Regeneration stacks to trigger condi cleanse in an AOE outside of Staff. Storm of Thunder would be the ultimate “ally assisting” spike tool, helping our allies do some rapid damage in a short window of opportunity, while still having a low enough up-time to not step on Guardian / Mesmer toes I hope. Song of Sand would be very good even if solo to help counter Thieves with the Blind, while not stepping on Glyph of Storm’s Sandstorm as a real persistent blind field. Song of Ice / Storm of Hoarfrost would work great in an aurashare build, which really do need more support, and lastly but certainly not least, Song of Fire / Storm of Incineration would really help support Burn eles and their allies in a group.

The elite is still an Elite, with a decent cool down for a Mantra. I think a crazy blast finisher elite would be quite interesting, and unless my math is wrong, it certainly cannot maintain full might stacks by itself, but perhaps it could pulse the blast every 2 seconds instead, for 5 total potential blasts.

Stances could be cool. Mantras could be interesting but I don’t see them being used too much. Other than that I have no idea what it could be other than shouts, and those are already taken!

Skills for WH proposed in the OP are boring imo and too similar. I also don’t think Ele will have upkeep skills. Energy is a revenant thing.

WH Air – Translocating Thunder. Hit up to 3 enemies (chaining) for X dmg applying weakness & vulnerability and randomly switching their positions between them. Y CD.

Already would be cooler XD

I have this feeling that warhorn skills would be mobile aoes like necro on death shroud, something like the Glyph of storms on Earth but moves with you. I think OP’s idea of having a resource that functions like adrenaline or revenant’s energy upkeep may be the way to go, so we don’t end up having 4 generic skills on warhorn for each attunement that produces an aoe/field around us. That might just end up like a less mobile D/D.

Anet introduced the idea of directional aoe, much like the dragonhunter’s projectile destroying arrow and revenant’s mobile front reflect, maybe an elementalist version?

Mantras and Shouts would make most sense for warhorn. And seeing as both mesmers and revenants will get an elite shield weapon it’s not out of the question that 2 elite specs get the same skill type.

What about minions,
where they can spawn little tornado with different effects,

Elite:
Elemental Takeover – change into incarnation of the element you are attuned to.

Imagine it as a stance like warrior Rampage, but in elemental form! Short time big power up. Fire for massive damage/burns, earth for some cool protection kitten saver, water to heal up yourself/allies, air to do some fast dmg/stun combos.

I know that Tornado is looking like Air takeover, so it would have to be something else or change torando.
Some pictures to give idea:
https://saveversus.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/fire-elemental.jpg
http://pre08.deviantart.net/e758/th/pre/i/2011/303/4/e/the_water_elemental_undine_by_xzeromus-d4ejhcf.jpg
http://art.ngfiles.com/images/210000/210161_artofinca_air-elemental.jpg
http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/heroes-of-camelot/images/a/a0/Earth_Elemental.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140209105358

Other way could be to give your armor some special effects – like IronMan has his, so Tempest would have flame,wind/thunder,water/ice,stone armors! xD

Just some crazy ideas.

It all depends what class we’re supposed to be model after.

Mesmer = Necro
Guardian = Ranger
Necro = Warrior
Ranger = Elementalist (speculative)
Thief = Engineer (speculative)
Engineer = Guardian (speculative)

So if we’re a Thief, then I imagine storms will be largely stealth/mobility based. If we’re a Mesmer we’ll likely get a twist on Mantras (charged storm you can use after charge to release the storm on target).

Kodiak.3281:

It all depends what class we’re supposed to be model after.

Mesmer = Necro
Guardian = Ranger
Necro = Warrior
Ranger = Elementalist (speculative)
Thief = Engineer (speculative)
Engineer = Guardian (speculative)

So if we’re a Thief, then I imagine storms will be largely stealth/mobility based. If we’re a Mesmer we’ll likely get a twist on Mantras (charged storm you can use after charge to release the storm on target).

Guardians get Traps

Ryld.1340:

Kodiak.3281:

Guardian = Ranger

Guardians get Traps

One could almost say they get Traps like a Ranger.

My toughts on this are banners. Or similar to warrior banners totems of the elements .

Turrets.

reroll.

This skill type allows a player to instantly switch to another class.

Skill of heavy [reroll type]: Randomly selects a heavyarmor class.
Skill of medium [reroll type]: Randomly selects a medium armor class.
Skill of light [reroll type]: Randomly selects a light armor class. There is an 20% of failure.
New mechanic (singularity): gain a skill the longer you stay in an attunement. This punishes you for reacting to situations and ignores the fact that a lot of weapon skills suck.
Elite
(Just roll over) [reroll type]: increases anger and despair.

My guess would be Tempests will use elemental combos

Fire & Air → Firestorm
Earth & Air → Sandstorm
Water & Air → Blizzard
Earth & Fire → Eruption
Earth & Water → Quagmire
Fire & Water → Acidstorm

As to what type they are, they will probably be glamour type spells, but not necessarily named “glamour”.

magestik.4132:

What about minions,
where they can spawn little tornado with different effects,

Would love minions… but on a different specialization, like an animancer, golemancer, or summoner. Something which could be centralized around the minions, rather than them being tacked on like it would be with the tempest. For this same reason I’m disappointed the Reaper is getting shouts, which should have been saved for some deathwailing banshee spec, they could have made the necro affects any number of other things that would have fit better, physical skills or stances for example.

I’m betting on…

MORE CANTRIPS YAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!

But in all seriousness I’m betting we’re going to be getting a new skill type. The only thing I could think of that would fit a ‘storm mage’ would be Wells or Glamour’s. While glamour’s would functionally fit, they’re really particular to the Mesmer, and I don’t think they would give two classes wells in the same wave of specialization updates.

I think it is going to be symbols, which would be quite lame I think. What I’m really hoping for is mantras, but I see stances or marks as well.

Well, i think new class types will be somewhat tied to new class mechanic a.k.a F5 skill. So i cant really tell what it will be

Hopefully it would let us combine elements. Like in Magicka, sort of.

Ability to change mapwide weather.

So we can get two tempests arguing over what weather they want and the sky shifting from heavy rain to complete draught every 3 seconds.

Kodiak.3281:

Ryld.1340:

Kodiak.3281:

Guardian = Ranger

Guardians get Traps

One could almost say they get Traps like a Ranger.

Oh, sorry. I misread that. I thought you said they were getting Engineer stuff.

OneKlicKill.4285:

Drewberry.3426:

For example:
Fire Warhorn Skill 4: Create a field of fire around the user that deals damage and periodically inflicts burning. Drains mana each second (upkeep).

^ This would be the most basic example I can think of. So while in air attunement casting lightning whip, you would be dealing additional damage from your fire form.

Water Warhorn Skill 4: Create a field of water around you that heals you and nearby allies and periodically chills foes. Drains mana each second (upkeep)

Air Warhorn Skill 4: Create a static field around you that stuns foes and periodically inflicts vulnerability. Drains mana each second (upkeep)

Earth Warhorn Skill 4: Create swirling sands around you that grants you and allies additional armor/toughness and periodically applies blind to nearby foes. Drains mana each second (upkeep)
-
Fire 5: Create a storm of fire at target location that deals heavy damage and burns foes.
(Consumes a large amount of mana)

Water 5: Create an ice storm at target location, chilling and bleeding foes.
Water 5 alternative: Create a storm of water that heals allies and chills foes.
(Consumes a large amount of mana)

Air 5: Create a storm of lightning that stuns foes and inflicts vulnerability
(Consumes a large amount of mana)

Earth 5: Create a sand storm that blinds foes
Earth 5 alternative: Create quicksand at target location, pulling foes and slowing them.
(Consumes a large amount of mana)

So basically #4 A-net will create auras that do exactly what the aura does, except every second, instead of when where attacked and:
5 is glyph of storms taking 4 skills instead of 1 utility…

who would give up focus/dagger for that?

Warhorn can’t bring us anything we dont already have.

Things we don’t have (or have reasonable access to):
Evading attacks
blocks/counter attacks
stealth
weapon teleports
effective daze
auto attack chains
burst that doesn’t require rotating through multiple atunements (thats not kittening burst)

Things swords provide:
Teleports
blocks
evades
burst
auto attack chains

Things warhorn would provide:
Boons
cone aoe/ area target aoe
team support

Things we have and have had forever:
Boons
cone aoe/ area target aoe
team support

Do you see why no one wants this?

So unimaginative.
Warhorn is guaranteed to have either a cascading aoe or a mobile aoe. Neither dagger nor focus can provide that.

The damaging aoes from warhorn are always superior (Birds, locusts) the specialization will be something even grander.

Daniel Handler.4816:

So unimaginative.
Warhorn is guaranteed to have either a cascading aoe or a mobile aoe. Neither dagger nor focus can provide that.

The damaging aoes from warhorn are always superior (Birds, locusts) the specialization will being something even grander.

“Cascading aoe” um we have this, lots of it frost bow 4, staff fire 5, glyph of storms, GS 5, hammer 4….

“mobile aoe” the mobile aoe in this game (very little amout of) is very lacking in damage and utility compared to positioned aoe (for good reason it allows escape). The only effective mobile aoe is called cleave, and it happens to be a part of melee weapons, one is quite often called a sword.

The specialization has nothing to do with the discussion between sword and war-horn as the spec would apply to them and all other weapons. What it brings would have been equivalent, independent of the weapon, so using that argument to support WH is silly.

Now using the spec argument to argue if it will be able to compete with our current 1:arcane/water 2:cantrips and 3:elite skills is speculation, but likely going to be answered as 1:no, probly the 3rd spot, 2:highly unlikely, they havent been able to since beta 3:could they honestly do worse.

OneKlicKill.4285:

Daniel Handler.4816:

So unimaginative.
Warhorn is guaranteed to have either a cascading aoe or a mobile aoe. Neither dagger nor focus can provide that.

The damaging aoes from warhorn are always superior (Birds, locusts) the specialization will being something even grander.

“Cascading aoe” um we have this, lots of it frost bow 4, staff fire 5, glyph of storms, GS 5, hammer 4….

“mobile aoe” the mobile aoe in this game (very little amout of) is very lacking in damage and utility compared to positioned aoe (for good reason it allows escape). The only effective mobile aoe is called cleave, and it happens to be a part of melee weapons, one is quite often called a sword.

The specialization has nothing to do with the discussion between sword and war-horn as the spec would apply to them and all other weapons. What it brings would have been equivalent, independent of the weapon, so using that argument to support WH is silly.

Now using the spec argument to argue if it will be able to compete with our current 1:arcane/water 2:cantrips and 3:elite skills is speculation, but likely going to be answered as 1:no, probly the 3rd spot, 2:highly unlikely, they havent been able to since beta 3:could they honestly do worse.

Dude, no idea what you are talking about.

No cascading aoes exist in the game at this point (beyond revenant), phoenix comes close. And the only mobile aoe that exists in the game (beyond revenant) is the necromancer shroud 4 skill.

This is a mobile aoe https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Field_of_the_Mists
And this is a cascading aoe https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Coalescence_of_Ruin

But instead you want a garbage sword that can hit 3 targets that are in front of you. Yeah……

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tides_of_Time
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reaper%27s_Grasp on skill 5

Daniel Handler.4816:

…

Um define cascading aoe. Cause I was defining it as an aoe that hits in multiple waves or a similar fashion. Yeah most of the AOE I listed seems more sporadic but follows the same concept using waves of damage. If you want a cascading Tiered damage as the one listed you should probably define your use of words. Also there is no reason sword couldn’t bring this type of spell.

Mobile Aoe with warhorn brings the problem of forcing scepter users into melee range for full benefits (obviously blocking projectiles would work but damage and conditions would not) I’m not really a fan of mobile aoe (seriously I hate necros warhorn aoe as it puts me in combat on kylo WAY to much)

I want a sword that would bring offensive utilities such as blocks,evades,blinds,daze,stun,teleports that could supplement the survivability of cantrips, freeing us from water and cele amulet. A weapon that could bring us consistent auto attack damage in multiple attainments (not just fire staff and air dagger) improving Pve as well as PvP as it would give us a reason not to stance dance for buffs to supplement our hp/armor pool and make up for the damage we have to invest into sustain. A new weapon would have been the perfect chance to break the standard ele playstyle of rotating attun and actually stick in an element. It had so much to offer. when you compare that to a WH and the fact we have 2 OH that are amazing and cover nearly everything it doesn’t take a high school diploma to see that sword is a better choice.

OneKlicKill.4285:

Daniel Handler.4816:

…

Um define cascading aoe. Cause I was defining it as an aoe that hits in multiple waves or a similar fashion. Yeah most of the AOE I listed seems more sporadic but follows the same concept using waves of damage. If you want a cascading Tiered damage as the one listed you should probably define your use of words. Also there is no reason sword couldn’t bring this type of spell.

Mobile Aoe with warhorn brings the problem of forcing scepter users into melee range for full benefits (obviously blocking projectiles would work but damage and conditions would not) I’m not really a fan of mobile aoe (seriously I hate necros warhorn aoe as it puts me in combat on kylo WAY to much)

I want a sword that would bring offensive utilities such as blocks,evades,blinds,daze,stun,teleports that could supplement the survivability of cantrips, freeing us from water and cele amulet. A weapon that could bring us consistent auto attack damage in multiple attainments (not just fire staff and air dagger) improving Pve as well as PvP as it would give us a reason not to stance dance for buffs to supplement our hp/armor pool and make up for the damage we have to invest into sustain. A new weapon would have been the perfect chance to break the standard ele playstyle of rotating attun and actually stick in an element. It had so much to offer. when you compare that to a WH and the fact we have 2 OH that are amazing and cover nearly everything it doesn’t take a high school diploma to see that sword is a better choice.

I don’t know how much you want to be an elementalist. Especially since you are annoyed the most consistent damage is coming from fire or air…. Or that you don’t like rotating attunement. (although the datamined thing also said the new spec encourages staying in attunements but whatever) That kind of makes up what the class has been from the very beginning. Next you’ll say you want to shift the healing from water and have it in earth attunement.

Btw a cascading aoe is one that moves outward. Not up and down. I’m not defining it myself, I am using the guild wars terminology. There is likely no way this will be on a sword because it is not on any sword in the game, including the revenant sword. Nor is any aoe on mainhand swords that is not a useless cleave.

Dagger has a cleave already in air attunement. And the other attunements can keep damage consistent in the same aoe fashion, think cones.

What disappoints me in this topic is that no one is thinking a new style of skill and only wanting more of what we have, so how would this bring “new and exciting ways of playing your class”?…..

- A lot of people come here wanting to have fields and/or storm style AoEs. This is literally what we have EVERYWHERE!

- Both Dagger OH and Scepter OH bring with them fire fields.

- Staff has a ton of fields / blasts

- A ton of our skills bring “Storm” / “Barrage” style AoE (Staff, Glyph, Conjurers)

- We have several AoE skills.

So would Warhorn innovate with this? Maybe if it brings mid range AoE in off-hand what we don’t have with Dagger OH or Focus, but then what is the use of that for Dagger? Where is the “new and exciting play style” if it will just give you a new AoE style of play which we already have? You got tired of pb AoE or long range AoE and now you want a mid range AoE option as “new and unique”?
Then we have the discussion of it having a ton of group support….

We have so much of this everywhere as well. Heck one of the staple Elementalist thing is boon sharing one – we even have the ability to share our auras now…. One of the big plus of Cele Ele is the group support it brings. Staff also brings a ton of it with its plethora of fields and blasts…. And you guys want more of that? Why??? Where the heck is the innovation in just once again doing group support but now slightly different…..

Look at Chronomancer – it really brings a new way for you to consider your mesmer, a ton of party buffs, wells, the new mechanic, etc. It completely changed the mesmer and baffled everyone.

Look at Guardian – in a swing it came with what the guardian desperately lacked, good range options. And it did that in an interesting way.

Look at Necro – the shouts IMO were poor, but the GS and new Shroud skill, wow completely changed the necro.

And here I come disappointed as hell with Warhorn and people are hoping that it will just be more of the same? Like really? Your whole drawn to the specialization is “Hey I want to play the exact same way I do now but with new animations!”???

To me it will just be even more kittened if the Warhorn is just more of the exact same we have…. and if the singularity data mine proves true, well yeah, it will be just dumb.

Azel.4786:

What disappoints me in this topic is that no one is thinking a new style of skill and only wanting more of what we have, so how would this bring “new and exciting ways of playing your class”?…..

- A lot of people come here wanting to have fields and/or storm style AoEs. This is literally what we have EVERYWHERE!

- Both Dagger OH and Scepter OH bring with them fire fields.

- Staff has a ton of fields / blasts

- A ton of our skills bring “Storm” / “Barrage” style AoE (Staff, Glyph, Conjurers)

- We have several AoE skills.

So would Warhorn innovate with this? Maybe if it brings mid range AoE in off-hand what we don’t have with Dagger OH or Focus, but then what is the use of that for Dagger? Where is the “new and exciting play style” if it will just give you a new AoE style of play which we already have? You got tired of pb AoE or long range AoE and now you want a mid range AoE option as “new and unique”?
Then we have the discussion of it having a ton of group support….

We have so much of this everywhere as well. Heck one of the staple Elementalist thing is boon sharing one – we even have the ability to share our auras now…. One of the big plus of Cele Ele is the group support it brings. Staff also brings a ton of it with its plethora of fields and blasts…. And you guys want more of that? Why??? Where the heck is the innovation in just once again doing group support but now slightly different…..

Look at Chronomancer – it really brings a new way for you to consider your mesmer, a ton of party buffs, wells, the new mechanic, etc. It completely changed the mesmer and baffled everyone.

Look at Guardian – in a swing it came with what the guardian desperately lacked, good range options. And it did that in an interesting way.

Look at Necro – the shouts IMO were poor, but the GS and new Shroud skill, wow completely changed the necro.

And here I come disappointed as hell with Warhorn and people are hoping that it will just be more of the same? Like really? Your whole drawn to the specialization is “Hey I want to play the exact same way I do now but with new animations!”???

To me it will just be even more kittened if the Warhorn is just more of the exact same we have…. and if the singularity data mine proves true, well yeah, it will be just dumb.

Yes do look at chronomancer
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tides_of_Time

Do you have any aoe remotely close to that? Phoenix maybe. Think phoenix but better.

Daniel Handler.4816:

….

It’s not that I don’t want to be an ele, I wanted something new to be brought to the class to give us options to take a different role. You simply want more of the same with some sugar coating making it look different.

Okay well if That’s cascading aoe then I guess that could be cool but if that’s the case I think sword makes even more sense in that role. Think stab the ground and a fissure starts forming out spewing lava in a cone shape toward your enemy. thing similar concept for both ice and earth from the ground in a cascading effect. Think full 360 effects of the same concept cascading away from you. I think sword works here really well actually.

Oh and fire great sword 2 is kinda a cascading aoe.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Yes do look at chronomancer
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tides_of_Time

Do you have any aoe remotely close to that? Phoenix maybe. Think phoenix but better.

Great, you just proved my point.

Look at it this way. Did the mesmer have a lot of AoEs before or was that something the mesmer lack? They lack and ANET came and gave them that option.

Now you come here and say you just want more AOEs that do exactly what the mesmer can do…. so you either just want to play a mesmer or you just want to have more AoE stuff to be able to, again, do what we do all day for almost 3 years but slightly different and with new animations.

Specializations are meant to bring new and exciting ways to play a class in a manner that you didn’t consider before – what you want is exactly what we have today. So excuse me if I don’t jump into that hype train.

Oh and a lot of people are also going on and on about the fact that ANET said that those classes that are getting OH weapons will have “cool stuff” to compensate.

You guys seem to forget that such comment was directed to the classes that would be getting “less stuff” than others, i.e., only 2 weapon skills. Elementalists do not fall into that category as they will get 8 weapon skills, 1 heal skill, 3 utilities and 1 elite.

So thus far we are slightly tied with the Guardian – which is getting 5 weapon skills, 3 new virtue skills, 1 heal, 3 utilites and 1 elite. And we “lose” to necro which is getting 10 weapon skills, 1 heal, 3 utilites and 1 elite.

And again, if our new mechanic is that singularity crap we jump past the others and get 4 new skills with our mechanic (the “pulsing effect” of our attunements).

So yeah, don’t go around thinking you will get “compensated” for getting an OH…