Guild Wars 2

So I decided to try tempest one more time in pvp and it actually is kind of decent.

http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgAEfALUBlQ~

Cele amulet and rune of melandru. Take the shout heal, flash freeze, eye of the storm and armor of earth

I tried a similar version of this build but with trooper runes and elemental shielding and aurashare spam, but I feel like even the nerfed shoutbow warrior that has to use settlers now works better as support than it.

Yea, you just end up being a tanky-support character that is less tanky and less supporty than d/d ele. That is all that people are complaining about. Same role, less efficient.

Tempest is supposed to be a NEW role.

I’ve been playing cele d/w with Fresh Air. Hoelbrak runes, standard cantrips, Air/Water/Tempest. Not many good traits to take in the Tempest line unfortunately, except for Gale Song. That trait is great. Assuming ANet listens, once the overloads are retuned and if we’re given a GM trait to add stability to overloads, I think I’ll be playing it quite a bit. Warhorn is super fun to play with compared to offhand dagger or focus. Some things are bound to be changed, so I’ll just keep posting on these forums and wait it out.

Problem simply is it has no place in the current game.

There’s better DPS specs for PvE. There’s better tankier specs for PvE. There’s better “Bruiser” style front line specs for PvP. There’s better support specs for WvW.

It simply brings nothing new to the table that groups would want.

Kodiak.3281:

Problem simply is it has no place in the current game.

There’s better DPS specs for PvE. There’s better tankier specs for PvE. There’s better “Bruiser” style front line specs for PvP. There’s better support specs for WvW.

It simply brings nothing new to the table that groups would want.

As that tempest is not a dps aimed specialization its not going to out dps an ele. I am not sure why ppl hand any though that it would. The thing is tempest can still use a staff so in wvw as a support it should be able to out do ele any day becuse it gets added effects that are very support aimed such as being able to overlode water for crazy conduction removal. It also gives an staff ele an added out set with the -100% soft cc duration and a added soft stab when done in earth. The shouts them self should let staff ele able to give good aura support (boon aura support for d/d ele is silly at this point in how easy it is to get fury and swiftness now) such as giving staff ele one more counter ranges effect or more chill out put.

Crazy condition removal → removes 2 conditions. 3 for yourself if traited. Over a 2.5 second channel. That has a 5 second ramp up time with a 20 second cooldown.

Crazy man. Crazy.

Raif.9507:

Crazy condition removal -> removes 2 conditions. 3 for yourself if traited. Over a 2.5 second channel. That has a 5 second ramp up time with a 20 second cooldown.

Crazy man. Crazy.

I’ll add:
What do you think will happen to a staff ele locked out of water for 20sec ?
DEATH
and not even to mention how useless he is since he cant water field for the duration.

Jski
If Kodiak is listing the possible role it just to show how Tempest is badly design since it do not fit in any role of the game.

By the way, how is Tempest support oriented ? Warhorn is suppor toriented, but Tempest ? How overloads are providing support ? They just does what ele currently does, heal and cleanse in water, cc in earth, dps in air and fire (very badly but that not the issue). Thats maybe the real flaw in the design. Its just supposed to be some sort of “enhancement” or “possibility” to do what we already can do (use overload instead of weapon skill).

It feels like the conjures again.

To be able to use the overload you have to be locked to attunement and extra 5-6s without doing anything.

An elemantalist doing nothing in attunement is a dead elemantalist.

They should let us use skill when we are overloading.

Mattmatt.4962:

Raif.9507:

Crazy condition removal -> removes 2 conditions. 3 for yourself if traited. Over a 2.5 second channel. That has a 5 second ramp up time with a 20 second cooldown.

Crazy man. Crazy.

I’ll add:
What do you think will happen to a staff ele locked out of water for 20sec ?
DEATH
and not even to mention how useless he is since he cant water field for the duration.

Jski
If Kodiak is listing the possible role it just to show how Tempest is badly design since it do not fit in any role of the game.

By the way, how is Tempest support oriented ? Warhorn is suppor toriented, but Tempest ? How overloads are providing support ? They just does what ele currently does, heal and cleanse in water, cc in earth, dps in air and fire (very badly but that not the issue). Thats maybe the real flaw in the design. Its just supposed to be some sort of “enhancement” or “possibility” to do what we already can do (use overload instead of weapon skill).

It dose not kick you out of water just puts it on cd so you can stay in water for a time to land added water fields chill fields. I am not comply sure but it looks like it apply reg to every one per pules or is it just one reg to your self? Even if not that still more aoe condition removal to a class who was able to remove a lot as is.

The big thing about tempest line is it fills both the self def and pt support roll so on an staff ele in wvw you start to cover more support with one ele then before AND you will be harder to pin down.

You do not need to run warhorn if you do not want to you lose nothing from going as a tempest line other then the abitly to get more dmg from a dmg line but that simply not what tempest is about. By only looking at what tempest is pulling off in the mind set of dmg its always going to fall short and your fooling your self into not seeing a powerhouse support specialization.

I guess if it dose not do dps max its worthless in most ppl eyes very sad and this mind set will hold GW2 back for some time. Do not like the support specialization for ele then wait for the next one whom may be the dps specialization.

Jski.6180:

Mattmatt.4962:

Raif.9507:

Crazy condition removal -> removes 2 conditions. 3 for yourself if traited. Over a 2.5 second channel. That has a 5 second ramp up time with a 20 second cooldown.

Crazy man. Crazy.

I’ll add:
What do you think will happen to a staff ele locked out of water for 20sec ?
DEATH
and not even to mention how useless he is since he cant water field for the duration.

Jski
If Kodiak is listing the possible role it just to show how Tempest is badly design since it do not fit in any role of the game.

By the way, how is Tempest support oriented ? Warhorn is suppor toriented, but Tempest ? How overloads are providing support ? They just does what ele currently does, heal and cleanse in water, cc in earth, dps in air and fire (very badly but that not the issue). Thats maybe the real flaw in the design. Its just supposed to be some sort of “enhancement” or “possibility” to do what we already can do (use overload instead of weapon skill).

It dose not kick you out of water just puts it on cd so you can stay in water for a time to land added water fields chill fields. I am not comply sure but it looks like it apply reg to every one per pules or is it just one reg to your self? Even if not that still more aoe condition removal to a class who was able to remove a lot as is.

No, that’s not true, and let’s look at why

Assuming you have Cleansing Water (which for Tempest you most likely may not have) and Cleansing Wave:

No swapping out of water after Overloading (no idea why you would just camp water for 25 seconds)
0 – Swap to water > 1 condition AoE removed, 2 for you
0:05 Overload available >Overload > 2 condi clear for everyone, 3 for you (cleansing water proc)
0:27(3/4) – Next Overload available if you remained in water > Overload > 2 condi clear for everyone, 3 for you (cleansing water proc)

Total conditions cleared: 5 for party, 7 for you (again, assuming you have Cleansing Water, which for Tempest you most likely may not have). You also technically don’t get the last condi cleanse as 0.5 seconds of the channel are out of the 30 second time window, but I’ll give it to you anyway.

Swapping out of water after Overloading
0:00 – Swap to water > 1 condition AoE removed, 2 for you
0:05 Overload available >Overload > 2 condi clear for everyone, 3 for you (cleansing water proc)
0:27(3/4) – Swap to water > 1 condition AoE removed, 2 for you
0:32(3/4) – Next Overload available if you remained in water, but this is beyond the 30 second mark and doesn’t count.

total conditions cleared: 4 for party, 7 for you (again, assuming you have Cleansing Water, which for Tempest you most likely may not have)

Regular water rotation for standard D/D ele builds:
0:00 – Swap to water > 1 condition AoE removed, 2 for you
0:04 – Swap out of water after using Frozen Burst, Cone of Cold and Cleansing wave
0:14 – Swap to water > 1 condition AoE removed, 2 for you
0:18 – Swap out of water after using Frozen Burst, Cone of Cold and Cleansing wave
0:28 – Swap to water > 1 condition AoE removed, 2 for you

Total conditions removed: 4 for party, 6 for you
Time taken: 30 seconds

In order for the Tempest with overload to do more condi cleansing in 30 seconds you need to camp water attunement for the 27 3/4 seconds out of the whole 30 seconds. I counted weapon skills in the regular water rotation for D/D eles due to the fact that the Tempest has a 5 second window to cast any ability it wants and is covered there. Even if you continued the counting for a longer period of time, the numbers are still the same, you have to camp water for the Tempest the entire time to clear more party conditions.

Note: I did not include weapon condi clears.

@ Raif.9507

The ideal not to camp water long then you need to the ideal is to use all your ability and get out of atument when they are in cd and to time the overlode cd to match up. I mean why would you need to jump back into water when most of your water ability are on cd?

I am coming from the mind set of staff tempest too so i am not sure why your talking about d/d and trying to force feed that as support for a tempest build.

0:00 chill field into big water and water 2
0:05 overlode
0:08 small water swap out of water
0:28 swap back into water just as small water comes off of cd and set up for the next chill field or swap into some other atument that you need at the time.

Jski.6180:

@ Raif.9507

The ideal not to camp water long then you need to the ideal is to use all your ability and get out of atument when they are in cd and to time the overlode cd to match up. I mean why would you need to jump back into water when most of your water ability are on cd?

I am coming from the mind set of staff tempest too so i am not sure why your talking about d/d and trying to force feed that as support for a tempest build.

0:00 chill field into big water and water 2
0:05 overlode
0:08 small water swap out of water
0:28 swap back into water just as small water comes off of cd and set up for the next chill field or swap into some other atument that you need at the time.

You realize that the water swapping I put there is the same thing for every single weapon set… right? Not just D/D? I used D/D abilities to INCREASE the time you have between attunement swapping for cleanses to make a point. With the normal build, you swap to water regardless of if your abilities are up or not, because you get the heal and condi cleanse anyway as well as regen for another condi cleanse and fury if you have arcana. Both Geyser and Frozen Ground will be up when you play like this and only Cleansing Rain will be offset by 5 seconds.

But sure, stick your head in the sand. That’s cool too.

Raif.9507:

Jski.6180:

@ Raif.9507

The ideal not to camp water long then you need to the ideal is to use all your ability and get out of atument when they are in cd and to time the overlode cd to match up. I mean why would you need to jump back into water when most of your water ability are on cd?

I am coming from the mind set of staff tempest too so i am not sure why your talking about d/d and trying to force feed that as support for a tempest build.

0:00 chill field into big water and water 2
0:05 overlode
0:08 small water swap out of water
0:28 swap back into water just as small water comes off of cd and set up for the next chill field or swap into some other atument that you need at the time.

You realize that the water swapping I put there is the same thing for every single weapon set… right? Not just D/D? I used D/D abilities to INCREASE the time you have between attunement swapping for cleanses to make a point. With the normal build, you swap to water regardless of if your abilities are up or not, because you get the heal and condi cleanse anyway as well as regen for another condi cleanse and fury if you have arcana. Both Geyser and Frozen Ground will be up when you play like this and only Cleansing Rain will be offset by 5 seconds.

But sure, stick your head in the sand. That’s cool too.

Well that the thing about staff support ele your only trying to optimized cd of skills not optimized cd of the atument swap that why staff ele can get away from arcain altogether. As a staff tempest when your overloding in an atument your saying i used the big cd in this atument and i will not need to jump back into it until these cd are back up. D/D ele must optimize there swapping atument cd not there skill cd.

Dude, there is no kittening way a staff ele will ever slot tempest in WVW

I mean wtf, what do you want in this useless trait line ?
You loose DPS and SURVIVABILITY, yes!!!! SUR-VI-VA-BI-LI-TY
Fire or Air provide more survivability than tempest (who provides basically none)
cdr on #4 fire and auto burning fire
or
tempest defense
vs
……… the void

Do you gain support ? no
You’re losing damage and survivability for no support
And that’s where you see how poorly designed tempest is.

Mattmatt.4962:

Dude, there is no kittening way a staff ele will ever slot tempest in WVW

I mean wtf, what do you want in this useless trait line ?
You loose DPS and SURVIVABILITY, yes!!!! SUR-VI-VA-BI-LI-TY
Fire or Air provide more survivability than tempest (who provides basically none)
cdr on #4 fire and auto burning fire
or
tempest defense
vs
……… the void

Do you gain support ? no
You’re losing damage and survivability for no support
And that’s where you see how poorly designed tempest is.

No the shouts are good support, but not good enough for the long cooldowns.
I wouldn’t take staff with a tempest either.

You need your mist form and your lightning flash as a wvw staff. Without those 2 panic button, you’ll die the very moment you aggro FP members.
Meanings, maximum of one shout. Earth beeing the strongest one, lets slot it ? Way too hard to use correctly: go melee to root people that need to be root ? => Nah