Guild Wars 2

One of the most disappointing aspects of Tempest for me is that it’s just more of the same stuff that D/D and D/F Ele already does well: short range support.

Overloads have been universally criticised as unusable, so I won’t recover that ground.

Maybe the best solution to making the Tempest more differentiated & interesting is just to remove the support aspect completely – make it all about control/damage/mobility in the 600-900 range.

In practise this would mean replacing the boon-y and/or crappy skills on warhorn (fire #4, earth #4, air #5) with more storms/control/mobility (which IMO would be good as warhorn is too similar to offhand dagger & focus as it is) and generally upping ranges, and making Overloads more storm-y (mobile storms/fields anyone?) and less punitive.

Bottom line: Ele is already dripping with support, there’s really no need to add more. The easiest way to differentiate Tempest is to push it in a different direction.

It would be nice if the tempest did something different, but it’s too late for that now. The best that we can get out of this is access to a few new boons and support tricks to make the spec a bit less underwhelming. So far we only have boon sharing on one skill in warhorn. Oh yes, we also have that AoE stunbreak and the AoE cd reduction, that even the most coordinated groups that use teamspeak will not be able to utilize effectively. I really can’t take those two support options seriously. Most of the tempest’s support options are based on stuff the ele can already do, so I believe that we should think of how we would like to support our allies in a different way.

I disagree, scripting the effects of skills should be the easiest thing to change. Animations & particle effects take loads of time, changing skill effects is generally a case of modifying config files and high-level game script. If they have halfway decent tooling/APIs, they ought to be able iterate pretty quickly on skill effects.

The real question is whether they listen to the overwhlemingly negative feedback and actually try to fix things, or whether they keep just fiddling with numbers.

Tempest can use d/d and d/f so i do not see your point.

Jski.6180:

Tempest can use d/d and d/f so i do not see your point.

Yea, Tempest can use D/D and D/F. No need for D/Wh at all.
Heck, the traits are awful too. No need for Tempest.

Malchior.5732:

Jski.6180:

Tempest can use d/d and d/f so i do not see your point.

Yea, Tempest can use D/D and D/F. No need for D/Wh at all.
Heck, the traits are awful too. No need for Tempest.

This person speaks the truth

Tempest is likely built around the new group content which may require healers now. Nerfing it pre-group content would be a immature change.

wait till you all get the full picture before saying something doesn’t work.

Knighthonor.4061:

Tempest is likely built around the new group content which may require healers now. Nerfing it pre-group content would be a immature change.

wait till you all get the full picture before saying something doesn’t work.

So we get to play Staff Eles in PvE even more? I better get to work on that Bifrost then.
I mean, it’s going to be used for the group content we DON’T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT AND CAN’T MAKE ANY ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT SAID THING. So it’ll be really useful.

Knighthonor.4061:

Tempest is likely built around the new group content which may require healers now. Nerfing it pre-group content would be a immature change.

wait till you all get the full picture before saying something doesn’t work.

A: That would be an incredibly stupid design decision.
B: We already do group support better then tempest
C: We had the full picture. that is what a beta was for. to show us the tempest in game.

So you don’t want support. What would you suggest? More flat dmg? Ele is already dripping raw dmg.

Malchior.5732:

Jski.6180:

Tempest can use d/d and d/f so i do not see your point.

Yea, Tempest can use D/D and D/F. No need for D/Wh at all.
Heck, the traits are awful too. No need for Tempest.

Still do not see why tempest abitly to support with both d/d and d/f should be overlooked.

Malchior.5732:

Knighthonor.4061:

Tempest is likely built around the new group content which may require healers now. Nerfing it pre-group content would be a immature change.

wait till you all get the full picture before saying something doesn’t work.

So we get to play Staff Eles in PvE even more? I better get to work on that Bifrost then.
I mean, it’s going to be used for the group content we DON’T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT AND CAN’T MAKE ANY ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT SAID THING. So it’ll be really useful.

well there is a reason not everything been revealed yet..
like i said, Tempest has one of the best burst heals in the game so far. How you know Tempest isnt useful in the new PvE Group Content?

xDudisx.5914:

So you don’t want support. What would you suggest? More flat dmg? Ele is already dripping raw dmg.

> Upon speccing for Tempest, you lose damage modifiers = less damage

> The only way to actually get more damage on Tempest is to sit in 180 range from your target and camp Fire on Staff and use Fire Overload <—- Not a new way to play, and not a new role

> PvE Staff Builds DO have a rotation, but brain-dead Fire camping is used for minimal effort kills <—— Tempest supports this idea

Malchior.5732:

xDudisx.5914:

So you don’t want support. What would you suggest? More flat dmg? Ele is already dripping raw dmg.

> Upon speccing for Tempest, you lose damage modifiers = less damage

> The only way to actually get more damage on Tempest is to sit in 180 range from your target and camp Fire on Staff and use Fire Overload <—- Not a new way to play, and not a new role

> PvE Staff Builds DO have a rotation, but brain-dead Fire camping is used for minimal effort kills <—— Tempest supports this idea

That why you run as an ele for raw dmg. Tempest should not be out dmging an ele or there would be no point in playing ele any more.

Knighthonor.4061:

Malchior.5732:

Knighthonor.4061:

Tempest is likely built around the new group content which may require healers now. Nerfing it pre-group content would be a immature change.

wait till you all get the full picture before saying something doesn’t work.

So we get to play Staff Eles in PvE even more? I better get to work on that Bifrost then.
I mean, it’s going to be used for the group content we DON’T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT AND CAN’T MAKE ANY ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT SAID THING. So it’ll be really useful.

well there is a reason not everything been revealed yet..
like i said, Tempest has best burst heals in the game so far. How you know Tempest isnt useful in the new PvE Group Content?

Because then we can’t possibly make a judgement on that? We’re saying Tempest sucks for everything we’ve seen thus far.

“oh what if healers are good now”
Have you seen anything from Anet so far that makes Healers worthwhile in PvE? No? Then you can’t make that assumption. That’s all it is, an assumption, not a fact.

Jski.6180:

Malchior.5732:

Jski.6180:

Tempest can use d/d and d/f so i do not see your point.

Yea, Tempest can use D/D and D/F. No need for D/Wh at all.
Heck, the traits are awful too. No need for Tempest.

Still do not see why tempest abitly to support with both d/d and d/f should be overlooked.

What support? The only support it has is Boon Sharing, which relies on Arcane + Water to do well(which requires constant swapping and thus, goes against Overloads).
With the Water Overload buff, it’ll probably be much better at healing, but you pretty much have to camp Water with Staff, which is only usable for backline Healers in WvW.
What was the Tempest advertised as? That’s right, FRONT LINE SUPPORT.

Jski.6180:

Malchior.5732:

xDudisx.5914:

So you don’t want support. What would you suggest? More flat dmg? Ele is already dripping raw dmg.

> Upon speccing for Tempest, you lose damage modifiers = less damage

> The only way to actually get more damage on Tempest is to sit in 180 range from your target and camp Fire on Staff and use Fire Overload <—- Not a new way to play, and not a new role

> PvE Staff Builds DO have a rotation, but brain-dead Fire camping is used for minimal effort kills <—— Tempest supports this idea

That why you run as an ele for raw dmg. Tempest should not be out dmging an ele or there would be no point in playing ele any more.

Tempest shouldn’t be competing for the same roles then.

Malchior.5732:

Knighthonor.4061:

Malchior.5732:

Knighthonor.4061:

Tempest is likely built around the new group content which may require healers now. Nerfing it pre-group content would be a immature change.

wait till you all get the full picture before saying something doesn’t work.

So we get to play Staff Eles in PvE even more? I better get to work on that Bifrost then.
I mean, it’s going to be used for the group content we DON’T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT AND CAN’T MAKE ANY ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT SAID THING. So it’ll be really useful.

well there is a reason not everything been revealed yet..
like i said, Tempest has best burst heals in the game so far. How you know Tempest isnt useful in the new PvE Group Content?

Because then we can’t possibly make a judgement on that? We’re saying Tempest sucks for everything we’ve seen thus far.

“oh what if healers are good now”
Have you seen anything from Anet so far that makes Healers worthwhile in PvE? No? Then you can’t make that assumption. That’s all it is, an assumption, not a fact.

Jski.6180:

Malchior.5732:

Jski.6180:

Tempest can use d/d and d/f so i do not see your point.

Yea, Tempest can use D/D and D/F. No need for D/Wh at all.
Heck, the traits are awful too. No need for Tempest.

Still do not see why tempest abitly to support with both d/d and d/f should be overlooked.

What support? The only support it has is Boon Sharing, which relies on Arcane + Water to do well(which requires constant swapping and thus, goes against Overloads).
With the Water Overload buff, it’ll probably be much better at healing, but you pretty much have to camp Water with Staff, which is only usable for backline Healers in WvW.
What was the Tempest advertised as? That’s right, FRONT LINE SUPPORT.

But have you seen the new Group content? No. So how do you know support isnt a more powerful role in the new content?

Like i said, Vanilla GW2 isnt a good testing ground for whats to come. Its likely being tested to make sure all the new group content elements of classes arent OP in the vanilla gameplay, which is likely what these beta weekends are for.

the new Group Content likely going more for a traditional trinity role. Nothing like it currently exist to test Tempest on. So no way of knowing how useless Tempest is in HoT content, which the Tempest itself is being released for.

Knighthonor.4061:

Malchior.5732:

Knighthonor.4061:

Malchior.5732:

Knighthonor.4061:

Tempest is likely built around the new group content which may require healers now. Nerfing it pre-group content would be a immature change.

wait till you all get the full picture before saying something doesn’t work.

So we get to play Staff Eles in PvE even more? I better get to work on that Bifrost then.
I mean, it’s going to be used for the group content we DON’T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT AND CAN’T MAKE ANY ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT SAID THING. So it’ll be really useful.

well there is a reason not everything been revealed yet..
like i said, Tempest has best burst heals in the game so far. How you know Tempest isnt useful in the new PvE Group Content?

Because then we can’t possibly make a judgement on that? We’re saying Tempest sucks for everything we’ve seen thus far.

“oh what if healers are good now”
Have you seen anything from Anet so far that makes Healers worthwhile in PvE? No? Then you can’t make that assumption. That’s all it is, an assumption, not a fact.

Jski.6180:

Malchior.5732:

Jski.6180:

Tempest can use d/d and d/f so i do not see your point.

Yea, Tempest can use D/D and D/F. No need for D/Wh at all.
Heck, the traits are awful too. No need for Tempest.

Still do not see why tempest abitly to support with both d/d and d/f should be overlooked.

What support? The only support it has is Boon Sharing, which relies on Arcane + Water to do well(which requires constant swapping and thus, goes against Overloads).
With the Water Overload buff, it’ll probably be much better at healing, but you pretty much have to camp Water with Staff, which is only usable for backline Healers in WvW.
What was the Tempest advertised as? That’s right, FRONT LINE SUPPORT.

But have you seen the new Group content? No. So how do you know support isnt a more powerful role in the new content?

Like i said, Vanilla GW2 isnt a good testing ground for whats to come. Its likely being tested to make sure all the new group content elements of classes arent OP in the vanilla gameplay, which is likely what these beta weekends are for.

the new Group Content likely going more for a traditional trinity role. Nothing like it currently exist to test Tempest on. So no way of knowing how useless Tempest is in HoT content, which the Tempest itself is being released for.

But have you seen the new Group content? No. So how do you know support IS a more powerful role in the new content?

Malchior.5732:

Jski.6180:

Tempest can use d/d and d/f so i do not see your point.

Yea, Tempest can use D/D and D/F. No need for D/Wh at all.
Heck, the traits are awful too. No need for Tempest.

That was my conclusion for end game content that is Fractals.

Malchior.5732:

Knighthonor.4061:

Malchior.5732:

Knighthonor.4061:

Malchior.5732:

Knighthonor.4061:

Tempest is likely built around the new group content which may require healers now. Nerfing it pre-group content would be a immature change.

wait till you all get the full picture before saying something doesn’t work.

So we get to play Staff Eles in PvE even more? I better get to work on that Bifrost then.
I mean, it’s going to be used for the group content we DON’T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT AND CAN’T MAKE ANY ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT SAID THING. So it’ll be really useful.

well there is a reason not everything been revealed yet..
like i said, Tempest has best burst heals in the game so far. How you know Tempest isnt useful in the new PvE Group Content?

Because then we can’t possibly make a judgement on that? We’re saying Tempest sucks for everything we’ve seen thus far.

“oh what if healers are good now”
Have you seen anything from Anet so far that makes Healers worthwhile in PvE? No? Then you can’t make that assumption. That’s all it is, an assumption, not a fact.

Jski.6180:

Malchior.5732:

Jski.6180:

Tempest can use d/d and d/f so i do not see your point.

Yea, Tempest can use D/D and D/F. No need for D/Wh at all.
Heck, the traits are awful too. No need for Tempest.

Still do not see why tempest abitly to support with both d/d and d/f should be overlooked.

What support? The only support it has is Boon Sharing, which relies on Arcane + Water to do well(which requires constant swapping and thus, goes against Overloads).
With the Water Overload buff, it’ll probably be much better at healing, but you pretty much have to camp Water with Staff, which is only usable for backline Healers in WvW.
What was the Tempest advertised as? That’s right, FRONT LINE SUPPORT.

But have you seen the new Group content? No. So how do you know support isnt a more powerful role in the new content?

Like i said, Vanilla GW2 isnt a good testing ground for whats to come. Its likely being tested to make sure all the new group content elements of classes arent OP in the vanilla gameplay, which is likely what these beta weekends are for.

the new Group Content likely going more for a traditional trinity role. Nothing like it currently exist to test Tempest on. So no way of knowing how useless Tempest is in HoT content, which the Tempest itself is being released for.

But have you seen the new Group content? No. So how do you know support IS a more powerful role in the new content?

Because of the prebeta developers interview in which they discussed non dps roles in HoT. Means they plan to address and make non-dps roles more important. We already saw this with control, since pve now has a new defiance bar for control to be more useful.

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Malchior.5732:

Jski.6180:

Tempest can use d/d and d/f so i do not see your point.

Yea, Tempest can use D/D and D/F. No need for D/Wh at all.
Heck, the traits are awful too. No need for Tempest.

That was my conclusion for end game content that is Fractals.

Then don’t run it you can say a lot of current classes are bad for end game content fractals and you can play that way with that group of ppl who things the same but that simply not GW2 over all.

Malchior.5732:

Tempest shouldn’t be competing for the same roles then.

The roll that ele fills all of them?

Oh, I won’t be running if for high level fractals, that’s for sure unless some trait changes come. After 3k hours that’s also why I stopped running my Ranger in high level fractals when I could just run a guard, thief, ele, or warrior and bring a lot more to the party. I use d/f or staff depending on the fractal and party comp… although I find I’m on the staff more, but I’m constantly swapping attunements and just see being locked down in Overloads as not worth it as they sat during the past BWE. Maybe next time they’ll be worth it, but I’ll see… but it has to be worth dropping one of my current trait lines for the Tempest trait line, and it just wasn’t.

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Oh, I won’t be running if for high level fractals, that’s for sure unless some trait changes come. After 3k hours that’s also why I stopped running my Ranger in high level fractals when I could just run a guard, thief, ele, or warrior and bring a lot more to the party. I use d/f or staff depending on the fractal and party comp… although I find I’m on the staff more, but I’m constantly swapping attunements and just see being locked down in Overloads as not worth it as they sat during the past BWE. Maybe next time they’ll be worth it, but I’ll see… but it has to be worth dropping one of my current trait lines for the Tempest trait line, and it just wasn’t.

Well ya tempest trait line is a pure def / support line there is nothing about it that is even close to dmg. The thing is the def / support is not too bad to where (with my staff ele build) i think i will run as a staff tempest over an staff ele in wvw setting. Mind you wvw is where def / support gets a lot more play then in pve.

Malchior.5732:

So we get to play Staff Eles in PvE even more? I better get to work on that Bifrost then.
I mean, it’s going to be used for the group content we DON’T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT AND CAN’T MAKE ANY ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT SAID THING. So it’ll be really useful.

Mate, don’t use logic where it doesn’t apply.

xDudisx.5914:

So you don’t want support. What would you suggest? More flat dmg? Ele is already dripping raw dmg.

Well tempest is about storms, so storm AOEs and fields is an obvious direction to go. Tempest already leans in this direction a little but it could go further.

Control is another lever that could be pushed more; think hammer warrior.

Pair this with high mobility (instead of just boons) for defense (think sword thief/shiro sword playstyles) and you have an entirely new way to play Ele.

nope, ele is the core problem. You can’t add anything to a class that can already do everything.

nerf ele, remove some boons and some firefields and see how tempest usage skyrockets.

Kidel.2057:

nope, ele is the core problem. You can’t add anything to a class that can already do everything.

nerf ele, remove some boons and some firefields and see how tempest usage skyrockets.

Nerfing ele won’t stop the tempest from being the worst elite spec in the game. It would have to be so severe that ele would end up being the biggest joke of a profession, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Can you also tell me how to build an ele focused on conditions? I would really like to know all about that.

Ganathar.4956:

Kidel.2057:

nope, ele is the core problem. You can’t add anything to a class that can already do everything.

nerf ele, remove some boons and some firefields and see how tempest usage skyrockets.

Nerfing ele won’t stop the tempest from being the worst elite spec in the game. It would have to be so severe that ele would end up being the biggest joke of a profession, you have no idea what you are talking about.

Can you also tell me how to build an ele focused on conditions? I would really like to know all about that.

Kidel is just a troll, but he’s basically confirming that Tempest = D/D Ele 0.5.

Kidel.2057:

nope, ele is the core problem. You can’t add anything to a class that can already do everything.

There are areas we are deficient in, ranged single target damage as I keep saying.

It’s true that the design is the problem:

This is how a staff elementalists plays usually in pvp when standing on a point, as an example:

1- Earth: you place a wall down to knockdown your opponent, earthquake and immob if you have the time (1v1 for example)
2 – Switch to fire as soon as possible to keep your protection up, use armor of earth for stability if available, and cast lava font/meteor shower
3- Switch to water immediatly to get your 20% damage modifier on vulnerable foes, ice spike, and some healing back, as normally your hp should be somewhere half-way down already by that time
4- lightning flash away and try to heal up a bit before coming back to fight

Overloading in fire would require you to lose your stability, your healing, your 20% damage modifier from water, dodging and your mobility. And then, as if this isn’t enough, you are getting punished with a double cooldown on an attunement.

A mesmer can burst down a staff ele with marauders armor in 2 second at most. Increasing damage numbers on overloads wont change the fact that you’ll just get shattered or 100 bladed down before your overload is ever completed. You’ll get interrupted every second of the cast anyway if it did any damage worth interrupting.

So if the overloads aren’t balanced for the competitive context then what are they balanced according to? Overloads are a failed concept right now simply because they were made without regards to how the class is played.

If they would remove all attunement cooldowns for 5 seconds, and would let you dodge and keep playing, then they would be an improvement to the class. But right now they just cripple it.

morrolan.9608:

Kidel.2057:

nope, ele is the core problem. You can’t add anything to a class that can already do everything.

There are areas we are deficient in, ranged single target damage as I keep saying.

Yep there are many other styles of gameplay they could have gone with. It’s just bizarre they went with a straight up D/D clone, just bizarre.

Who would be silly to drop STAFF ELES for kittened kitten tempests? Staff ele offers MUCH MORE support and strong heals than tempests will ever be able to, starting with the crappy low healing coefficient on Element Bastion.