Guild Wars 2

What has Tempest over Chronomancer that makes it useful? I’m saying this because people are saying it’s a bad spec, Ele is my 2nd character (my main is Guard and I have a Thief, I also made a Mesmer a while ago but deleted it even at lvl 80 because I didn’t like it), I like the playstyle but I’m worried about it’s utilities when in Tempest compared to what Chrono does…

It does nothing good.

Tempest is pretty fun.

Painful question. The Chronomancer is one of the best elite specs. The Tempest is one of the worst.

Just play a Chronomancer or a vanilla Elementalist, you will be way happier that way.

Well if you don’t like mesmer don’t worry about chrono since you won’t play it as it mostly plays the same. That said dragonhunter is amazing in PvP I heard.

Also, Tempest vs Chronomancer is a night and day comparison. Chronomancer makes pretty much everything good about mesmer better and Tempest tries to focus in on Auras which are at best minorly useful and an extremely flawed overload mechanic that doesn’t even work on most weapons except maybe staff. And staff is dubious on how useful it is because overloads are close range abilities.

Tempest has an water field chronomancer dose not that alone is a big game changer for comparing the classes in spvp and wvw.

Jski.6180:

Tempest has an water field chronomancer dose not that alone is a big game changer for comparing the classes in spvp and wvw.

Correction. Tempest has a water field that you cannot drop almost on demand and must wait 5 seconds past the time you actually need the water field. The amount of healing you do is also fairly low for something that occurs over 4 seconds and then the regen. Also you are going to have a hard time blasting that overload and will need a buddy. Oh did I mention you needed stability to actually complete the overload and you only have one stack on overload?

Whats that? Staff has 2 water fields with which to blast? And you can blast them yourself without using a utility? That is great!

Seriously though. Earth 2 → Water 3 or 5 on staff is great in WvW for extra blasts. sPvP is a different beast but saying in water for that long is just dangerous as you do no damage. Not to mention Ele has not needed to use a water field blast as part of their role, if you needed to do that just get an Engineer who can use heal turret and blast it 2+times before the water field goes away.

Senario.2038:

Jski.6180:

Tempest has an water field chronomancer dose not that alone is a big game changer for comparing the classes in spvp and wvw.

Correction. Tempest has a water field that you cannot drop almost on demand and must wait 5 seconds past the time you actually need the water field. The amount of healing you do is also fairly low for something that occurs over 4 seconds and then the regen. Also you are going to have a hard time blasting that overload and will need a buddy. Oh did I mention you needed stability to actually complete the overload and you only have one stack on overload?

Whats that? Staff has 2 water fields with which to blast? And you can blast them yourself without using a utility? That is great!

Seriously though. Earth 2 -> Water 3 or 5 on staff is great in WvW for extra blasts. sPvP is a different beast but saying in water for that long is just dangerous as you do no damage. Not to mention Ele has not needed to use a water field blast as part of their role, if you needed to do that just get an Engineer who can use heal turret and blast it 2+times before the water field goes away.

You need tempest/ele in a wvw group you can live with out mez/crons becuse so many other classes fill there roll. It realy as simple as that.

Does anyone still play wvw though? During prime time all borderland and eb are not even full on the most populous server.

rotten.9753:

Does anyone still play wvw though? During prime time all borderland and eb are not even full on the most populous server.

Different point and thing to talk about but yes ppl play wvw a lot. Even from a stand point of spvp more about team builds then classes ele/tempest still is a very needed class.

Jski.6180:

Senario.2038:

Jski.6180:

Tempest has an water field chronomancer dose not that alone is a big game changer for comparing the classes in spvp and wvw.

Correction. Tempest has a water field that you cannot drop almost on demand and must wait 5 seconds past the time you actually need the water field. The amount of healing you do is also fairly low for something that occurs over 4 seconds and then the regen. Also you are going to have a hard time blasting that overload and will need a buddy. Oh did I mention you needed stability to actually complete the overload and you only have one stack on overload?

Whats that? Staff has 2 water fields with which to blast? And you can blast them yourself without using a utility? That is great!

Seriously though. Earth 2 -> Water 3 or 5 on staff is great in WvW for extra blasts. sPvP is a different beast but saying in water for that long is just dangerous as you do no damage. Not to mention Ele has not needed to use a water field blast as part of their role, if you needed to do that just get an Engineer who can use heal turret and blast it 2+times before the water field goes away.

You need tempest/ele in a wvw group you can live with out mez/crons becuse so many other classes fill there roll. It realy as simple as that.

Thing is you need them for very different reasons. The biggest reasons ele is needed in WvW has less to do with water fields and more to do with hard CC such as static field/earth 4. As well as several area denial skills that make it tough to advance as a zerg without significant condi clear. This role was never going to change in WvW as Ele is currently the only one who offers this much (although chronomancer shield and wells make a very good case for it being a good support in WvW.)

You don’t NEED a tempest. Everything is covered by base ele and really taking tempest means you will be skipping out on a spec that is arguably slightly more beneficial. Aura sharing is great and all but unless you have a surplus of Ele you can’t do that.

Trait lines like Air for lower static field cooldown, Water for defense, Fire for more uptime on area denial spells like lava font or downing enemies with meteor. Taking tempest means you skip out on one of these and while Air or fire seem like likely canidates it is definitely NOT worth one really bad heal from overload. And a small revision to what I said earlier…WATER OVERLOAD IS NOT A WATER FIELD.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Overload_Water

Yeah…that just makes it even more useless compared to taking a traitline to help with your area denial.

Senario.2038:

Jski.6180:

Senario.2038:

Jski.6180:

Tempest has an water field chronomancer dose not that alone is a big game changer for comparing the classes in spvp and wvw.

Correction. Tempest has a water field that you cannot drop almost on demand and must wait 5 seconds past the time you actually need the water field. The amount of healing you do is also fairly low for something that occurs over 4 seconds and then the regen. Also you are going to have a hard time blasting that overload and will need a buddy. Oh did I mention you needed stability to actually complete the overload and you only have one stack on overload?

Whats that? Staff has 2 water fields with which to blast? And you can blast them yourself without using a utility? That is great!

Seriously though. Earth 2 -> Water 3 or 5 on staff is great in WvW for extra blasts. sPvP is a different beast but saying in water for that long is just dangerous as you do no damage. Not to mention Ele has not needed to use a water field blast as part of their role, if you needed to do that just get an Engineer who can use heal turret and blast it 2+times before the water field goes away.

You need tempest/ele in a wvw group you can live with out mez/crons becuse so many other classes fill there roll. It realy as simple as that.

Thing is you need them for very different reasons. The biggest reasons ele is needed in WvW has less to do with water fields and more to do with hard CC such as static field/earth 4. As well as several area denial skills that make it tough to advance as a zerg without significant condi clear. This role was never going to change in WvW as Ele is currently the only one who offers this much (although chronomancer shield and wells make a very good case for it being a good support in WvW.)

You don’t NEED a tempest. Everything is covered by base ele and really taking tempest means you will be skipping out on a spec that is arguably slightly more beneficial. Aura sharing is great and all but unless you have a surplus of Ele you can’t do that.

Trait lines like Air for lower static field cooldown, Water for defense, Fire for more uptime on area denial spells like lava font or downing enemies with meteor. Taking tempest means you skip out on one of these and while Air or fire seem like likely canidates it is definitely NOT worth one really bad heal from overload. And a small revision to what I said earlier…WATER OVERLOAD IS NOT A WATER FIELD.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Overload_Water

Yeah…that just makes it even more useless compared to taking a traitline to help with your area denial.

Tempest can still use a staff and WH also makes the water field.

Jski.6180:

Tempest can still use a staff and WH also makes the water field.

You aren’t paying Tempest much of a service when your justifications for why it’s better than Chromonancer is stuff that elementalist already had before Tempest was around.

Amineo.8951:

What has Tempest over Chronomancer that makes it useful? I’m saying this because people are saying it’s a bad spec, Ele is my 2nd character (my main is Guard and I have a Thief, I also made a Mesmer a while ago but deleted it even at lvl 80 because I didn’t like it), I like the playstyle but I’m worried about it’s utilities when in Tempest compared to what Chrono does…

It’s kind of like comparing apples to oranges.

Like in sPvP, neither has effectively changed the class role too much of what I have seen in the meta. Tempest is still filling bunker role and Chronomancer is still filling a burst or condi role. The playstyles for each are different then they were before.

But Chronomancer has given Mesmer a lot of power creep while Tempest has not done the same for elementalist which is why Tempest is considered bad.

MadRabbit.3179:

Jski.6180:

Tempest can still use a staff and WH also makes the water field.

You aren’t paying Tempest much of a service when your justifications for why it’s better than Chromonancer is stuff that elementalist already had before Tempest was around.

When you do these one class vs the other class you must strip a lot of the class identity becuse your talking about one effect vs another effect and how useful they are. I do not like doing this and i find them very flawed in any way your point of view goes. So i am trying to show how “wrong” this argument is by removing every thing that makes classes uniquest and fun and just being blunt on what they do as a class.

Tempest/ele dose aoe dmg aoe cc and aoe healing/field support.
Chronomancer/mez dose dmg mostly single target with some limited aoe good aoe cc but agen limited not so good healing and nearly no field support. What it dose get is quickness and cdr support and great burst dmg.

Jski.6180:

Senario.2038:

Jski.6180:

Senario.2038:

Jski.6180:

Tempest has an water field chronomancer dose not that alone is a big game changer for comparing the classes in spvp and wvw.

Correction. Tempest has a water field that you cannot drop almost on demand and must wait 5 seconds past the time you actually need the water field. The amount of healing you do is also fairly low for something that occurs over 4 seconds and then the regen. Also you are going to have a hard time blasting that overload and will need a buddy. Oh did I mention you needed stability to actually complete the overload and you only have one stack on overload?

Whats that? Staff has 2 water fields with which to blast? And you can blast them yourself without using a utility? That is great!

Seriously though. Earth 2 -> Water 3 or 5 on staff is great in WvW for extra blasts. sPvP is a different beast but saying in water for that long is just dangerous as you do no damage. Not to mention Ele has not needed to use a water field blast as part of their role, if you needed to do that just get an Engineer who can use heal turret and blast it 2+times before the water field goes away.

You need tempest/ele in a wvw group you can live with out mez/crons becuse so many other classes fill there roll. It realy as simple as that.

Thing is you need them for very different reasons. The biggest reasons ele is needed in WvW has less to do with water fields and more to do with hard CC such as static field/earth 4. As well as several area denial skills that make it tough to advance as a zerg without significant condi clear. This role was never going to change in WvW as Ele is currently the only one who offers this much (although chronomancer shield and wells make a very good case for it being a good support in WvW.)

You don’t NEED a tempest. Everything is covered by base ele and really taking tempest means you will be skipping out on a spec that is arguably slightly more beneficial. Aura sharing is great and all but unless you have a surplus of Ele you can’t do that.

Trait lines like Air for lower static field cooldown, Water for defense, Fire for more uptime on area denial spells like lava font or downing enemies with meteor. Taking tempest means you skip out on one of these and while Air or fire seem like likely canidate it is definitely NOT worth one really bad heal from overload. And a small revision to what I said earlier…WATER OVERLOAD IS NOT A WATER FIELD.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Overload_Water

Yeah…that just makes it even more useless compared to taking a traitline to help with your area denial.

Tempest can still use a staff and WH also makes the water field.

And? Regular Ele has access to staff and its water fields already. Also only water globe is a water field. Meaning Tempest has 1 water field on a 35 second cooldown compared to staff which has two. You could blast it yourself but by using warhorn and dagger/scepter you are immediately placed much closer to the enemy and therefore much more in danger of getting hurt. Not to mention you are only blasting at most maybe once or twice yourself and have 4 seconds to do so. Oh and the range on the skill is the same as geyser.

Lets review.
Warhorn Water field:
35 second cooldown
240 AoE (same as geyser)
Duration is 4 pulses with 1 sec interval (assumed 4 seconds of Water Field)
You have a blast finisher on water 3 on dagger, and Warhorn earth 4. Earth Overload will be impossible to use as a blast finisher due to the fact that you would have to switch to it after casting your water field.

Staff Water fields:
20 seconds and 45 seconds cooldown (Healing rain is much larger than geyser)
Geyser is 240 healing rain is 450
Duration is 2 seconds for geyser and 6 whole seconds for healing rain (and it is much easier to blast into)
You can self blast into it by using earth 2 → Water 3 or water 5. Admittedly one less blast finisher but the thing here is that you don’t have to be right on top of your Water field (usually a dangerous place, hence you dropped a water field to heal allies) to blast it.

And honestly if you really wanted a front line support take a scrapper.
A scrapper can toss down water fields and then blast them multiple times while doing good damage and being tanky. Heal turret → Detonate → Either Elixir gun 4/rocket boots. I’m fairly sure if you are really good there is a way to blast it a third time in a very short duration. Engie has a lot of tools to work with and it is silly to think that with the advent of scrapper that Tempest offers a unique front line support build. It really doesn’t. It doesn’t do enough damage and it also doesn’t do as much as its fellow front line classes to support.

Tempest can offer nothing more than what a traditional ele can. It is just fun to play. Chronomancer is one of the best specs in game atm, you would be better off rolling it.

MadRabbit.3179:

Amineo.8951:

What has Tempest over Chronomancer that makes it useful? I’m saying this because people are saying it’s a bad spec, Ele is my 2nd character (my main is Guard and I have a Thief, I also made a Mesmer a while ago but deleted it even at lvl 80 because I didn’t like it), I like the playstyle but I’m worried about it’s utilities when in Tempest compared to what Chrono does…

It’s kind of like comparing apples to oranges.

Like in sPvP, neither has effectively changed the class role too much of what I have seen in the meta. Tempest is still filling bunker role and Chronomancer is still filling a burst or condi role. The playstyles for each are different then they were before.

But Chronomancer has given Mesmer a lot of power creep while Tempest has not done the same for elementalist which is why Tempest is considered bad.

It seems less like the Tempest is bad, and more that the Chronomancer is too good. Chronomancer was one of the specializations that just got pure upside. They just got an F5 without having to pay anything. The way the Tempest was done seems like a much more intelligent way of doing the elite specialization. You have to give something up to get that different gameplay. But when you compare yourselves to something like Chronomancer, that was just pure dumb power creeping, it seems like you got shafted.

Dave.9140:

MadRabbit.3179:

Amineo.8951:

What has Tempest over Chronomancer that makes it useful? I’m saying this because people are saying it’s a bad spec, Ele is my 2nd character (my main is Guard and I have a Thief, I also made a Mesmer a while ago but deleted it even at lvl 80 because I didn’t like it), I like the playstyle but I’m worried about it’s utilities when in Tempest compared to what Chrono does…

It’s kind of like comparing apples to oranges.

Like in sPvP, neither has effectively changed the class role too much of what I have seen in the meta. Tempest is still filling bunker role and Chronomancer is still filling a burst or condi role. The playstyles for each are different then they were before.

But Chronomancer has given Mesmer a lot of power creep while Tempest has not done the same for elementalist which is why Tempest is considered bad.

It seems less like the Tempest is bad, and more that the Chronomancer is too good. Chronomancer was one of the specializations that just got pure upside. They just got an F5 without having to pay anything. The way the Tempest was done seems like a much more intelligent way of doing the elite specialization. You have to give something up to get that different gameplay. But when you compare yourselves to something like Chronomancer, that was just pure dumb power creeping, it seems like you got shafted.

Well that isn’t even a problem. It seems kinda like a foreign idea since we have Tempest but nearly all elite specs do not have a downside. They are almost all pure upside for what they do. Even if that role is a little different than what the base class did it is still generally a complete upside.

Tempest on the other hand is the only elite spec to be actively punished for using the mechanics of their elite spec. Dragonhunter/Daredevil/Scrapper/Chronomancer/Druid/Herald/Reaper all don’t punish you for using the new things. Berserker is in my opinion a close second for worst elite spec out there but I think their problem amounts to adrenaline not being correct numbers wise rather than a flaw a tthe basic conceptual levels of the class (condi warrior is interesting and different. but numbers are off).

All that said, I don’t have a problem with the strength of other Elite specs, Chronomancer gives mesmer a good reason to exist in PvP due to alacrity.

Senario.2038:

Jski.6180:

Senario.2038:

Jski.6180:

Senario.2038:

Jski.6180:

Tempest has an water field chronomancer dose not that alone is a big game changer for comparing the classes in spvp and wvw.

Correction. Tempest has a water field that you cannot drop almost on demand and must wait 5 seconds past the time you actually need the water field. The amount of healing you do is also fairly low for something that occurs over 4 seconds and then the regen. Also you are going to have a hard time blasting that overload and will need a buddy. Oh did I mention you needed stability to actually complete the overload and you only have one stack on overload?

Whats that? Staff has 2 water fields with which to blast? And you can blast them yourself without using a utility? That is great!

Seriously though. Earth 2 -> Water 3 or 5 on staff is great in WvW for extra blasts. sPvP is a different beast but saying in water for that long is just dangerous as you do no damage. Not to mention Ele has not needed to use a water field blast as part of their role, if you needed to do that just get an Engineer who can use heal turret and blast it 2+times before the water field goes away.

You need tempest/ele in a wvw group you can live with out mez/crons becuse so many other classes fill there roll. It realy as simple as that.

Thing is you need them for very different reasons. The biggest reasons ele is needed in WvW has less to do with water fields and more to do with hard CC such as static field/earth 4. As well as several area denial skills that make it tough to advance as a zerg without significant condi clear. This role was never going to change in WvW as Ele is currently the only one who offers this much (although chronomancer shield and wells make a very good case for it being a good support in WvW.)

You don’t NEED a tempest. Everything is covered by base ele and really taking tempest means you will be skipping out on a spec that is arguably slightly more beneficial. Aura sharing is great and all but unless you have a surplus of Ele you can’t do that.

Trait lines like Air for lower static field cooldown, Water for defense, Fire for more uptime on area denial spells like lava font or downing enemies with meteor. Taking tempest means you skip out on one of these and while Air or fire seem like likely canidate it is definitely NOT worth one really bad heal from overload. And a small revision to what I said earlier…WATER OVERLOAD IS NOT A WATER FIELD.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Overload_Water

Yeah…that just makes it even more useless compared to taking a traitline to help with your area denial.

Tempest can still use a staff and WH also makes the water field.

And? Regular Ele has access to staff and its water fields already.

And most of chronomancer dmg is from GS yet mez can use GS why do you not give the same leeway to other class’s? Chronomancer/mez dose dmg very well its support is only soso and more of the time its pure self support. Ele/tempest is aoe base both dmg and support.

Jski.6180:

And most of chronomancer dmg is from GS yet mez can use GS why do you not give the same leeway to other class’s? Chronomancer/mez dose dmg very well its support is only soso and more of the time its pure self support. Ele/tempest is aoe base both dmg and support.

Maybe in a dead game mode that should be deleted long time ago. Hopefully, anet notices that no one plays wvw anymore and act upon it.

rotten.9753:

Jski.6180:

And most of chronomancer dmg is from GS yet mez can use GS why do you not give the same leeway to other class’s? Chronomancer/mez dose dmg very well its support is only soso and more of the time its pure self support. Ele/tempest is aoe base both dmg and support.

Maybe in a dead game mode that should be deleted long time ago. Hopefully, anet notices that no one plays wvw anymore and act upon it.

Ok… dead game mode that ppl still play so not sure how its dead or even how bring up this point is relevant to talking about tempest vs chron. Are you trying to hijack this?

Any way even in spvp/pve ele/tempest has always been an aoe master that is the ideal of the class and why some of the healing effect and dmg effects are less burst and more dps base becuse if it was the same type of burst say mez/chron has and aoe it would be only ele/tempest needed for every thing. Aoe vs single target is the real question of vs what we are talking about here.

Jski.6180:

Ok… dead game mode that ppl still play so not sure how its dead or even how bring up this point is relevant to talking about tempest vs chron. Are you trying to hijack this?

Any way even in spvp/pve ele/tempest has always been an aoe master that is the ideal of the class and why some of the healing effect and dmg effects are less burst and more dps base becuse if it was the same type of burst say mez/chron has and aoe it would be only ele/tempest needed for every thing. Aoe vs single target is the real question of vs what we are talking about here.

I think you misunderstood the OP. He talks about utility. Besides, tempest aoe capability is rather disappointing considering its name. The storm it can summon (air overload) isn’t even an aoe since it can only target 3 entity (unless autoattacks are aoes now then I concur). Warhorn skills try to win the contest with shatterstone over which skill is the worst in the game. I can’t see any decent or worthy aoe skill there as well, it’s all small range or small arc.

The issue I found with Tempest is that the Elite in a vacuum is rather on the meh side. The true potential is once you start mixing in resources:

Auras:

• Zephyr’s Boon: Auras grant fury and swiftness when applied.
• Elemental Shielding: Gain protection when applying an aura to yourself or an ally.
• Elemental Bastion: Auras you apply heal allies. Apply a frost aura to yourself and nearby allies when struck while below the health threshold.
• Invigorating Torrents: Auras you apply also grant regeneration and vigor.

Granted all those buffs/boons apply from just one Aura, and many of our skills share Auras making Powerful Aura unneeded.

Shouts

• Superior Rune of the Trooper: Rank 6 – Shouts remove conditions

I haven’t played too much with Warhorn, but on paper it looks like a support weapon with a bit of recovery and support options.

Overloads are rather on the odd side seeing how it contradicts our core mechanic, but as someone mentioned above this feels more like what an Elite Spec should work (give up “this” for “that”). Though you can run into some odd combos such as Air Overload + Fresh Air for insta-refresh.

Ultimately, Tempest plays like a passive healer and boon bot. The selling point for me was that I could walk away from Arcana/Water comfortably and still be able to support myself as well as my team to an effective extent.

Chronomancer, on the other hand, is more of a buff bot. By itself the trait line offers Alacrity which that alone is a very strong buff. The Elite class also isn’t as straight forward to play and can excel very well for players who are creative or can think outside of the box.

Well, well, well…all of them offer very powerful effects, but the issue is trying to balance your utility capability. Chronos tend to burn out very fast if you try to slot utilities for multiple roles, and there’re more tangible trade-offs.

At the end of the day though, both classes play very differently and have different capabilities. There is overlap in their roles, but both classes approach a problem from different viewpoints.

savacli.8172:

The issue I found with Tempest is that the Elite in a vacuum is rather on the meh side. The true potential is once you start mixing in resources:

Auras:

• Zephyr’s Boon: Auras grant fury and swiftness when applied.
• Elemental Shielding: Gain protection when applying an aura to yourself or an ally.
• Elemental Bastion: Auras you apply heal allies. Apply a frost aura to yourself and nearby allies when struck while below the health threshold.
• Invigorating Torrents: Auras you apply also grant regeneration and vigor.

Granted all those buffs/boons apply from just one Aura, and many of our skills share Auras making Powerful Aura unneeded.

Shouts

• Superior Rune of the Trooper: Rank 6 – Shouts remove conditions

I haven’t played too much with Warhorn, but on paper it looks like a support weapon with a bit of recovery and support options.

Overloads are rather on the odd side seeing how it contradicts our core mechanic, but as someone mentioned above this feels more like what an Elite Spec should work (give up “this” for “that”). Though you can run into some odd combos such as Air Overload + Fresh Air for insta-refresh.

Ultimately, Tempest plays like a passive healer and boon bot. The selling point for me was that I could walk away from Arcana/Water comfortably and still be able to support myself as well as my team to an effective extent.

Chronomancer, on the other hand, is more of a buff bot. By itself the trait line offers Alacrity which that alone is a very strong buff. The Elite class also isn’t as straight forward to play and can excel very well for players who are creative or can think outside of the box.

Well, well, well…all of them offer very powerful effects, but the issue is trying to balance your utility capability. Chronos tend to burn out very fast if you try to slot utilities for multiple roles, and there’re more tangible trade-offs.

At the end of the day though, both classes play very differently and have different capabilities. There is overlap in their roles, but both classes approach a problem from different viewpoints.

The issue I have with this argument is that people are actually looking at possible applications for the spec and have come up with nothing really gamechanging or super useful.

To take your examples:
Zephyr’s boon is on Air traitline.
Elemental shielding is on earth.

This means that you HAVE to take both of those to get it to be useful rather than taking Tempest and taking two other specs that are not very locked into place.

Also in terms of Condi clear the spec has 1 every time you use a SHOUT ONLY 1. Compare that to clearing one every time you get regeneration. That is at most 4 clears…to put that in perspective that is about as much conditions that are cleared whenever Cleansing Fire goes off. 3 from being cleansing fire and 1 from being a cantrip that applies regeneration. Not to mention that you have two other cantrips you could use and cleansing fire is used both when you have 3 conditions and when you actively use it if you have it on your bar. (instead of say mist form)

rotten.9753:

Jski.6180:

Ok… dead game mode that ppl still play so not sure how its dead or even how bring up this point is relevant to talking about tempest vs chron. Are you trying to hijack this?

Any way even in spvp/pve ele/tempest has always been an aoe master that is the ideal of the class and why some of the healing effect and dmg effects are less burst and more dps base becuse if it was the same type of burst say mez/chron has and aoe it would be only ele/tempest needed for every thing. Aoe vs single target is the real question of vs what we are talking about here.

I think you misunderstood the OP. He talks about utility. Besides, tempest aoe capability is rather disappointing considering its name. The storm it can summon (air overload) isn’t even an aoe since it can only target 3 entity (unless autoattacks are aoes now then I concur). Warhorn skills try to win the contest with shatterstone over which skill is the worst in the game. I can’t see any decent or worthy aoe skill there as well, it’s all small range or small arc.

Utility so like shouts vs wells? I think shouts win. When it comes to WH vs shield due to the way ele/tempest works WH is better then shield there just simply more use for the WH on its own then chron shield. The only thing added Chron gets for its f1-f5 skills is the time split but that in pvp is easy to counter it may have a use in pve though then f1-f5 skills for tempest are all useful and fill a very set in stone roll. I think the only thing chron has over a tempest is it trait line.

There a major problem looking at classes like this for the elite spec your forgetting the main class they are part of. A lot of what tempest is comes is what an ele who was an avages class but with good aoe tools to start with. Chron had mez to start with whom was a major powerhouse of a class with very good single target dmg and effects.

Jski.6180:

Utility so like shouts vs wells? I think shouts win. When it comes to WH vs shield due to the way ele/tempest works WH is better then shield there just simply more use for the WH on its own then chron shield. The only thing added Chron gets for its f1-f5 skills is the time split but that in pvp is easy to counter it may have a use in pve though then f1-f5 skills for tempest are all useful and fill a very set in stone roll. I think the only thing chron has over a tempest is it trait line.

There a major problem looking at classes like this for the elite spec your forgetting the main class they are part of. A lot of what tempest is comes is what an ele who was an avages class but with good aoe tools to start with. Chron had mez to start with whom was a major powerhouse of a class with very good single target dmg and effects.

Utility as in utility, not utility skill. Shouts are utility skills but they have barely any utility. All shouts do is to give aura and deal some basic thematic damage (fire shout burns, water shout chills, etc). Wells are much more than that, they have mechanics that can be utilised in many situations, not just to increase your damage or defense. The elite well is significantly better than rebound. In other words, shouts are one dimensional, they are not fun to use.

I’m not sure why you keep claiming chrono is just f5 when in reality it’s a spec which is much more complete than tempest could ever be. Shield is actually a weapon of choice now in pve and the same cannot be said for warhorn. It’s filled with skills that compete with shatterstone for the worst skill in the game reward.

To put some salt on the wound, the only spec that Robert Gee failed at (at least in pvp) was significantly buffed today. Tempest had no genuine changes since BWE2 except earthen proxy change.

I’m pretty sure I’m wasting my time here since it’s pretty clear you just can’t be convienced that tempest in reality we all live isn’t as good as you think.

ReaperJr.5967:

Tempest can offer nothing more than what a traditional ele can. It is just fun to play. Chronomancer is one of the best specs in game atm, you would be better off rolling it.

Yeah, I just fully unlocked my chronomancer and as much as I LOVE my ele, the mesmer elite spec is so much more enjoyable to play than tempest, and chrono shield is fantastic.

What I have also found is that the fast pace play of the ele isn’t lost when playing the mesmer because of the active defenses. It is a nice change of pace, and I find myself thinking about my chrono spec.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not hating on my ele, but the mesmer is just so trixy.

Ohh, and chrono wells are awesome.

MrSilver.5269:

ReaperJr.5967:

Tempest can offer nothing more than what a traditional ele can. It is just fun to play. Chronomancer is one of the best specs in game atm, you would be better off rolling it.

Yeah, I just fully unlocked my chronomancer and as much as I LOVE my ele, the mesmer elite spec is so much more enjoyable to play than tempest, and chrono shield is fantastic.

What I have also found is that the fast pace play of the ele isn’t lost when playing the mesmer because of the active defenses. It is a nice change of pace, and I find myself thinking about my chrono spec.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not hating on my ele, but the mesmer is just so trixy.

Ohh, and chrono wells are awesome.

Yet people say nerf DH because it’s the most broken elite spec atm where Chrono just make Mesmer even more powerful when it already was.

rotten.9753:

Jski.6180:

Utility so like shouts vs wells? I think shouts win. When it comes to WH vs shield due to the way ele/tempest works WH is better then shield there just simply more use for the WH on its own then chron shield. The only thing added Chron gets for its f1-f5 skills is the time split but that in pvp is easy to counter it may have a use in pve though then f1-f5 skills for tempest are all useful and fill a very set in stone roll. I think the only thing chron has over a tempest is it trait line.

There a major problem looking at classes like this for the elite spec your forgetting the main class they are part of. A lot of what tempest is comes is what an ele who was an avages class but with good aoe tools to start with. Chron had mez to start with whom was a major powerhouse of a class with very good single target dmg and effects.

I’m pretty sure I’m wasting my time here since it’s pretty clear you just can’t be convienced that tempest in reality we all live isn’t as good as you think.

YES saying something is bad over and over with out playing it at all it seems or realy understanding it means you have no real position on what going on and how things work out. If you like chronomancer as much as you seem to go to the chronomancer forms and talk about it dont come to another form and just say how bad something is.

Any way back to the major point its a question of AoE vs single target effects when your talking about tempest vs chronomancer. Ele has allways been aoe aimed class so more of its skills are a bit weaker and on longer cd water 5 on off hand dagger is an good example of this. A 40 sec cd for a heal / condition removal is not that good but that it hits 5 targets makes it good.

Jski.6180:

rotten.9753:

Jski.6180:

Utility so like shouts vs wells? I think shouts win. When it comes to WH vs shield due to the way ele/tempest works WH is better then shield there just simply more use for the WH on its own then chron shield. The only thing added Chron gets for its f1-f5 skills is the time split but that in pvp is easy to counter it may have a use in pve though then f1-f5 skills for tempest are all useful and fill a very set in stone roll. I think the only thing chron has over a tempest is it trait line.

There a major problem looking at classes like this for the elite spec your forgetting the main class they are part of. A lot of what tempest is comes is what an ele who was an avages class but with good aoe tools to start with. Chron had mez to start with whom was a major powerhouse of a class with very good single target dmg and effects.

I’m pretty sure I’m wasting my time here since it’s pretty clear you just can’t be convienced that tempest in reality we all live isn’t as good as you think.

YES saying something is bad over and over with out playing it at all it seems or realy understanding it means you have no real position on what going on and how things work out. If you like chronomancer as much as you seem to go to the chronomancer forms and talk about it dont come to another form and just say how bad something is.

Any way back to the major point its a question of AoE vs single target effects when your talking about tempest vs chronomancer. Ele has allways been aoe aimed class so more of its skills are a bit weaker and on longer cd water 5 on off hand dagger is an good example of this. A 40 sec cd for a heal / condition removal is not that good but that it hits 5 targets makes it good.

With the same logic, saying something is good over and over doesn’t mean it is actually good. Plus you seem to think that everybody who speaks out on it doesn’t actually play the elite spec which is at best attacking the people criticizing it and not the actual problems with the spec as a whole.

The big fact is that a lot of people don’t enjoy how Tempest plays and it highly mismatches with the base Ele playstyle. In addition to this the actual new mechanics introduced for ele are lackluster and have few uses due to what other classes can do. Not to mention that Tempest seems way more suited for a Staff build than it does for the close up support it is supposed to be. And it doesn’t even do that all that well because it is not even on par with something like Water.

DnT made a video about Tempest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kw7zQi-t1s and it looks like the way to make it work well is to switch between normal weapons and conjured to get overload with other attunements (staff and icebow or scepter/X and lightning hammer seems to be the best), like someone said in this forum.

Senario.2038:

Jski.6180:

rotten.9753:

Jski.6180:

Utility so like shouts vs wells? I think shouts win. When it comes to WH vs shield due to the way ele/tempest works WH is better then shield there just simply more use for the WH on its own then chron shield. The only thing added Chron gets for its f1-f5 skills is the time split but that in pvp is easy to counter it may have a use in pve though then f1-f5 skills for tempest are all useful and fill a very set in stone roll. I think the only thing chron has over a tempest is it trait line.

There a major problem looking at classes like this for the elite spec your forgetting the main class they are part of. A lot of what tempest is comes is what an ele who was an avages class but with good aoe tools to start with. Chron had mez to start with whom was a major powerhouse of a class with very good single target dmg and effects.

I’m pretty sure I’m wasting my time here since it’s pretty clear you just can’t be convienced that tempest in reality we all live isn’t as good as you think.

YES saying something is bad over and over with out playing it at all it seems or realy understanding it means you have no real position on what going on and how things work out. If you like chronomancer as much as you seem to go to the chronomancer forms and talk about it dont come to another form and just say how bad something is.

Any way back to the major point its a question of AoE vs single target effects when your talking about tempest vs chronomancer. Ele has allways been aoe aimed class so more of its skills are a bit weaker and on longer cd water 5 on off hand dagger is an good example of this. A 40 sec cd for a heal / condition removal is not that good but that it hits 5 targets makes it good.

With the same logic, saying something is good over and over doesn’t mean it is actually good. Plus you seem to think that everybody who speaks out on it doesn’t actually play the elite spec which is at best attacking the people criticizing it and not the actual problems with the spec as a whole.

The big fact is that a lot of people don’t enjoy how Tempest plays and it highly mismatches with the base Ele playstyle. In addition to this the actual new mechanics introduced for ele are lackluster and have few uses due to what other classes can do. Not to mention that Tempest seems way more suited for a Staff build than it does for the close up support it is supposed to be. And it doesn’t even do that all that well because it is not even on par with something like Water.

Well the logic is playing it vs not playing it when it comes to making a point and not just talking about it purely from an ideal point of view. On paper a lot of things about tempest look bad but in real combat they work out well. You would never think staff tempest would be an good aura support due to 600 range limitation and staff only having 1 aura build in but it works you can heal / conduction remove and do high end dmg with out losing self staying power.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQFAWn0XC9XidOAWYCcYilHAzdyeZ/sEDhgQLQIAcAahA-TVyHABKfBA4T1HmUC2jSPCVDYIlBNqDQn9HA4BAEAABwPH6QH6QHahO3ZpAGYoF-w

The build i am thinking about going for atm i have the same set up but ptv armor and str runs so less condition removal but a bit more staying power. In a big group this build should fill many rolls that an ele alone could never do nor could an chronomancer.

Jski.6180:

Senario.2038:

Jski.6180:

rotten.9753:

Jski.6180:

Utility so like shouts vs wells? I think shouts win. When it comes to WH vs shield due to the way ele/tempest works WH is better then shield there just simply more use for the WH on its own then chron shield. The only thing added Chron gets for its f1-f5 skills is the time split but that in pvp is easy to counter it may have a use in pve though then f1-f5 skills for tempest are all useful and fill a very set in stone roll. I think the only thing chron has over a tempest is it trait line.

There a major problem looking at classes like this for the elite spec your forgetting the main class they are part of. A lot of what tempest is comes is what an ele who was an avages class but with good aoe tools to start with. Chron had mez to start with whom was a major powerhouse of a class with very good single target dmg and effects.

I’m pretty sure I’m wasting my time here since it’s pretty clear you just can’t be convienced that tempest in reality we all live isn’t as good as you think.

YES saying something is bad over and over with out playing it at all it seems or realy understanding it means you have no real position on what going on and how things work out. If you like chronomancer as much as you seem to go to the chronomancer forms and talk about it dont come to another form and just say how bad something is.

Any way back to the major point its a question of AoE vs single target effects when your talking about tempest vs chronomancer. Ele has allways been aoe aimed class so more of its skills are a bit weaker and on longer cd water 5 on off hand dagger is an good example of this. A 40 sec cd for a heal / condition removal is not that good but that it hits 5 targets makes it good.

With the same logic, saying something is good over and over doesn’t mean it is actually good. Plus you seem to think that everybody who speaks out on it doesn’t actually play the elite spec which is at best attacking the people criticizing it and not the actual problems with the spec as a whole.

The big fact is that a lot of people don’t enjoy how Tempest plays and it highly mismatches with the base Ele playstyle. In addition to this the actual new mechanics introduced for ele are lackluster and have few uses due to what other classes can do. Not to mention that Tempest seems way more suited for a Staff build than it does for the close up support it is supposed to be. And it doesn’t even do that all that well because it is not even on par with something like Water.

Well the logic is playing it vs not playing it when it comes to making a point and not just talking about it purely from an ideal point of view. On paper a lot of things about tempest look bad but in real combat they work out well. You would never think staff tempest would be an good aura support due to 600 range limitation and staff only having 1 aura build in but it works you can heal / conduction remove and do high end dmg with out losing self staying power.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQFAWn0XC9XidOAWYCcYilHAzdyeZ/sEDhgQLQIAcAahA-TVyHABKfBA4T1HmUC2jSPCVDYIlBNqDQn9HA4BAEAABwPH6QH6QHahO3ZpAGYoF-w

The build i am thinking about going for atm i have the same set up but ptv armor and str runs so less condition removal but a bit more staying power. In a big group this build should fill many rolls that an ele alone could never do nor could an chronomancer.

You’re still not addressing people’s concerns and blanket stating that they must not play Tempest because you think that one build works for you. Every single role that Tempest does is something ele can already do and in most cases it simply isn’t any better than taking one of the original traitlines. Even staff you could just take water and do all the important things needed from an Ele. Just because you think they fill a role that ele does not doesn’t mean it is so.

Chronomancer is an amazing spec with hard CC, good support, and fairly good damage. Anything tempest does base ele can do just as well without exposing themselves to extremely detrimental overloads that usually won’t finish in anything that isn’t PvE. Not to mention a 10% damage buff is only for 5 seconds after you overload compared to 10% from water+more if you are in water that is active all the time and you don’t need to put yourself in danger for the same ouput.

You’re free to like it yourself, but many people don’t and telling them that they are wrong simply because you believe they don’t play the spec is silly.

Senario.2038:

Jski.6180:

Senario.2038:

Jski.6180:

rotten.9753:

Jski.6180:

Utility so like shouts vs wells? I think shouts win. When it comes to WH vs shield due to the way ele/tempest works WH is better then shield there just simply more use for the WH on its own then chron shield. The only thing added Chron gets for its f1-f5 skills is the time split but that in pvp is easy to counter it may have a use in pve though then f1-f5 skills for tempest are all useful and fill a very set in stone roll. I think the only thing chron has over a tempest is it trait line.

There a major problem looking at classes like this for the elite spec your forgetting the main class they are part of. A lot of what tempest is comes is what an ele who was an avages class but with good aoe tools to start with. Chron had mez to start with whom was a major powerhouse of a class with very good single target dmg and effects.

I’m pretty sure I’m wasting my time here since it’s pretty clear you just can’t be convienced that tempest in reality we all live isn’t as good as you think.

YES saying something is bad over and over with out playing it at all it seems or realy understanding it means you have no real position on what going on and how things work out. If you like chronomancer as much as you seem to go to the chronomancer forms and talk about it dont come to another form and just say how bad something is.

Any way back to the major point its a question of AoE vs single target effects when your talking about tempest vs chronomancer. Ele has allways been aoe aimed class so more of its skills are a bit weaker and on longer cd water 5 on off hand dagger is an good example of this. A 40 sec cd for a heal / condition removal is not that good but that it hits 5 targets makes it good.

With the same logic, saying something is good over and over doesn’t mean it is actually good. Plus you seem to think that everybody who speaks out on it doesn’t actually play the elite spec which is at best attacking the people criticizing it and not the actual problems with the spec as a whole.

The big fact is that a lot of people don’t enjoy how Tempest plays and it highly mismatches with the base Ele playstyle. In addition to this the actual new mechanics introduced for ele are lackluster and have few uses due to what other classes can do. Not to mention that Tempest seems way more suited for a Staff build than it does for the close up support it is supposed to be. And it doesn’t even do that all that well because it is not even on par with something like Water.

Well the logic is playing it vs not playing it when it comes to making a point and not just talking about it purely from an ideal point of view. On paper a lot of things about tempest look bad but in real combat they work out well. You would never think staff tempest would be an good aura support due to 600 range limitation and staff only having 1 aura build in but it works you can heal / conduction remove and do high end dmg with out losing self staying power.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQFAWn0XC9XidOAWYCcYilHAzdyeZ/sEDhgQLQIAcAahA-TVyHABKfBA4T1HmUC2jSPCVDYIlBNqDQn9HA4BAEAABwPH6QH6QHahO3ZpAGYoF-w

The build i am thinking about going for atm i have the same set up but ptv armor and str runs so less condition removal but a bit more staying power. In a big group this build should fill many rolls that an ele alone could never do nor could an chronomancer.

You’re still not addressing people’s concerns and blanket stating that they must not play Tempest because you think that one build works for you. Every single role that Tempest does is something ele can already do and in most cases it simply isn’t any better than taking one of the original traitlines. Even staff you could just take water and do all the important things needed from an Ele. Just because you think they fill a role that ele does not doesn’t mean it is so.

Chronomancer is an amazing spec with hard CC, good support, and fairly good damage. Anything tempest does base ele can do just as well without exposing themselves to extremely detrimental overloads that usually won’t finish in anything that isn’t PvE. Not to mention a 10% damage buff is only for 5 seconds after you overload compared to 10% from water+more if you are in water that is active all the time and you don’t need to put yourself in danger for the same ouput.

You’re free to like it yourself, but many people don’t and telling them that they are wrong simply because you believe they don’t play the spec is silly.

What roll dose my build not cover? It dose good staff dmg ontop of good dps overload dmg it support both healing and boon/aura, and it cc with some of the strongest in the game “line cc”.

Jski.6180:

Senario.2038:

Jski.6180:

Senario.2038:

Jski.6180:

rotten.9753:

Jski.6180:

Utility so like shouts vs wells? I think shouts win. When it comes to WH vs shield due to the way ele/tempest works WH is better then shield there just simply more use for the WH on its own then chron shield. The only thing added Chron gets for its f1-f5 skills is the time split but that in pvp is easy to counter it may have a use in pve though then f1-f5 skills for tempest are all useful and fill a very set in stone roll. I think the only thing chron has over a tempest is it trait line.

There a major problem looking at classes like this for the elite spec your forgetting the main class they are part of. A lot of what tempest is comes is what an ele who was an avages class but with good aoe tools to start with. Chron had mez to start with whom was a major powerhouse of a class with very good single target dmg and effects.

I’m pretty sure I’m wasting my time here since it’s pretty clear you just can’t be convienced that tempest in reality we all live isn’t as good as you think.

YES saying something is bad over and over with out playing it at all it seems or realy understanding it means you have no real position on what going on and how things work out. If you like chronomancer as much as you seem to go to the chronomancer forms and talk about it dont come to another form and just say how bad something is.

Any way back to the major point its a question of AoE vs single target effects when your talking about tempest vs chronomancer. Ele has allways been aoe aimed class so more of its skills are a bit weaker and on longer cd water 5 on off hand dagger is an good example of this. A 40 sec cd for a heal / condition removal is not that good but that it hits 5 targets makes it good.

With the same logic, saying something is good over and over doesn’t mean it is actually good. Plus you seem to think that everybody who speaks out on it doesn’t actually play the elite spec which is at best attacking the people criticizing it and not the actual problems with the spec as a whole.

The big fact is that a lot of people don’t enjoy how Tempest plays and it highly mismatches with the base Ele playstyle. In addition to this the actual new mechanics introduced for ele are lackluster and have few uses due to what other classes can do. Not to mention that Tempest seems way more suited for a Staff build than it does for the close up support it is supposed to be. And it doesn’t even do that all that well because it is not even on par with something like Water.

Well the logic is playing it vs not playing it when it comes to making a point and not just talking about it purely from an ideal point of view. On paper a lot of things about tempest look bad but in real combat they work out well. You would never think staff tempest would be an good aura support due to 600 range limitation and staff only having 1 aura build in but it works you can heal / conduction remove and do high end dmg with out losing self staying power.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQFAWn0XC9XidOAWYCcYilHAzdyeZ/sEDhgQLQIAcAahA-TVyHABKfBA4T1HmUC2jSPCVDYIlBNqDQn9HA4BAEAABwPH6QH6QHahO3ZpAGYoF-w

The build i am thinking about going for atm i have the same set up but ptv armor and str runs so less condition removal but a bit more staying power. In a big group this build should fill many rolls that an ele alone could never do nor could an chronomancer.

You’re still not addressing people’s concerns and blanket stating that they must not play Tempest because you think that one build works for you. Every single role that Tempest does is something ele can already do and in most cases it simply isn’t any better than taking one of the original traitlines. Even staff you could just take water and do all the important things needed from an Ele. Just because you think they fill a role that ele does not doesn’t mean it is so.

Chronomancer is an amazing spec with hard CC, good support, and fairly good damage. Anything tempest does base ele can do just as well without exposing themselves to extremely detrimental overloads that usually won’t finish in anything that isn’t PvE. Not to mention a 10% damage buff is only for 5 seconds after you overload compared to 10% from water+more if you are in water that is active all the time and you don’t need to put yourself in danger for the same ouput.

You’re free to like it yourself, but many people don’t and telling them that they are wrong simply because you believe they don’t play the spec is silly.

What roll dose my build not cover? It dose good staff dmg ontop of good dps overload dmg it support both healing and boon/aura, and it cc with some of the strongest in the game “line cc”.

Where to begin, while your build offers a heal on aura once every 30 seconds, fury, swiftness, regen, and vigor you miss out on team utility in any high level PvE or WvW setting beyond a few boons. Your ability to condi clear for your allies is severely hindered by not taking cleansing water and you cannot stack might yourself outside of the earth 2 fire 2 combo and overload fire. Taking runes of the soldier gives you at most 5 condi clears compared to taking cleansing water and having it apply a condi clear every time you grant regeneration. Your damage is hindered by not taking fire with the lava font skill as lava font is a big source of damage. Not to mention Tempest and the water trait that gives you more damage above 90% hp don’t mesh all that well because of how close you have to be as a tempest.

All of these could be taken care of by using base ele with alright amounts of healing from blasting water fields (taking arcane wave for example and arcane brilliance). Your gear is highly questionable as well. You get ok amounts of feriocity and vitality/toughness for health but your crit chance really suffers which means in a coordinated party you will get maybe 50% crit chance compared to nearly 100 with food buffs+party in a PvE setting and in a WvW setting you still have the problem of curing condis.

Base ele usually covers condi clear for themselves in WvW by using ether renewal due to its low cooldown. PvE you want blast finishers for might/healing. You dedicate way too much of your build to condi clear instead of damage. I see nothing here that cannot also be achieved with base ele to similar effect. You can’t stack might all that well and it may work in WvW but honestly the skills on staff are the reason people take ele, not the build. Base ele does just fine in WvW as the healing from blast finishing water is way more important than the amounts of healing you give out to 5 people.

Tempest has some use on a staff ele in PvE only, but I find its use questionable at best because of how close you need to be to the enemy for overloads as you do no damage when you are dead and you give up a lot of damage in your case to be tanky enough to survive that close.

@ Senario.2038
Did not read all of your post stopped at “heal auras ever 30 sec” the cd on the healing effect is 0 the 30 sec cd is on triggering the aoe frost aura.