Guild Wars 2

Conditions are tied to elements.

You can make conditions as powerful as you want on the Elementalist, the fact is the Elementalist has the be the least capable profession to go condition damage no matter what format you are playing, PvE, WvW or sPvP.

Damaging conditions are tied to Fire and Earth.
Defensive conditions are tied to Water and Air.

That is like a Terror necro using a scepter/focus in one weapon set and an axe/dagger in another.
The other set contributes nothing.

In a profession you want to constantly switch elements to be effective, not to mention having 10 skills that hinders your damage output makes Elementalist the least viable profession to go condition damage.

It’s a good thing Elementalists have… Nothing to make up for it.
Poor damage output, even with full zerkers.

Trade rangers? Your feline pet for an elemental? We could REALLY use extra damage.

whats worse is that hardly anything in the traits to help improve conditions either, other classes get traits to inflict conditions, traits that increase duration of conditions. Then you have the fact that to be making the most of the class you are forced into changing attunements.

Damaging Conditions:

Scepter – Burning, Bleeding
Dagger / Dagger – Burning, Bleeding / Burning, Bleeding
Staff – Burning, Bleeding
Focus – Burning

I would say not bad, but most of them are on long cool downs and/or are easily dodged. Its no where near enough for an actual condition build as they are to long cast time and/or cool down as well.

condi ele destroys everyone…. perma burning and perma confusion with new runes.. super OP … plus vulnerabilty, weakness, cripple, chill, immobalize, bleed, and poison with sigil … plenty of condis and lots of damage.. been running this for a couple days and its very strong and people melt very fast

Fishbones.6914:

condi ele destroys everyone…. perma burning and perma confusion with new runes.. super OP … plus vulnerabilty, weakness, cripple, chill, immobalize, bleed, and poison with sigil … plenty of condis and lots of damage.. been running this for a couple days and its very strong and people melt very fast

Is that the fabled 30/30/30/30/30 build?

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

whats worse is that hardly anything in the traits to help improve conditions either, other classes get traits to inflict conditions, traits that increase duration of conditions. Then you have the fact that to be making the most of the class you are forced into changing attunements.

Damaging Conditions:

Scepter – Burning, Bleeding
Dagger / Dagger – Burning, Bleeding / Burning, Bleeding
Staff – Burning, Bleeding
Focus – Burning

I would say not bad, but most of them are on long cool downs and/or are easily dodged. Its no where near enough for an actual condition build as they are to long cast time and/or cool down as well.

I wouldn’t say cooldowns are the problem, just the attacks are very slow. The cooldown problem is with the elements.

So you put on 9 stacks of bleeding, switch to fire to deal burning.
Now you cannot bleed anything for 10 seconds. Your only source for high damage now is burning, a single condition.
But now you need to heal, switch to water.
So you don’t deal any condition damage for 8-10 seconds.

Even condition warriors outclass condition Elementalists, with better burning, bleeding output and snares with longbow. Dual swords provide ample bleeding AND torment.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Fishbones.6914:

condi ele destroys everyone…. perma burning and perma confusion with new runes.. super OP … plus vulnerabilty, weakness, cripple, chill, immobalize, bleed, and poison with sigil … plenty of condis and lots of damage.. been running this for a couple days and its very strong and people melt very fast

Is that the fabled 30/30/30/30/30 build?

By condition ele, he meant terror necro.

I have no idea what you guys are complaining about.

I run a condition build using scepter/focus + frost bow in tpvp and have plenty of sustained damage. With 1455 unbuffed condition damage I do 700 damage per tick burning, and around 4-500 damage per tick bleeding. That’s close to 1,800 damage per second on average when combined with my other attacks (semi-buffed from blast finishers, support boons, and etc).

I use shaman’s amulet, diamond skin, and runes of undead to achieve those numbers. Sigils are geomancy and superior corruption.

Keep in mind, this is an extremely defensive build. The primary goal is not to match thieves, warriors, or necromancers in terms of raw damage, but to outlast the enemy using high toughness/healing power + sustained damage.

It works beautifully when played properly.

Gesamtkunstwerk.6590:

I have no idea what you guys are complaining about.

I run a condition build using scepter/focus + frost bow in tpvp and have plenty of sustained damage. With 1455 unbuffed condition damage I do 700 damage per tick burning, and around 4-500 damage per tick bleeding. That’s close to 1,800 damage per second on average when combined with my other attacks (semi-buffed from blast finishers, support boons, and etc).

I use shaman’s amulet, diamond skin, and runes of undead to achieve those numbers. Sigils are geomancy and superior corruption.

Keep in mind, this is an extremely defensive build. The primary goal is not to match thieves, warriors, or necromancers in terms of raw damage, but to outlast the enemy using high toughness/healing power + sustained damage.

It works beautifully when played properly.

I think you meant to say ‘it works beautifully against bad players.’

Venom thieves, stun lock warriors and terror necros will pretty much destroy you their own condition damage no matter how tanky you are.
Bunker bomber engineers will tank your attacks all day long and troll with self revival.
Don’t get me started with Spirit Rangers.

A condition damage elementalist will never beat my power elementalist, I can even be naked and it will end with a stalemate.

Nova Stiker.8396:

I think you meant to say ‘it works beautifully against bad players.’

Venom thieves, stun lock warriors and terror necros will pretty much destroy you their own condition damage no matter how tanky you are.
Bunker bomber engineers will tank your attacks all day long and troll with self revival.
Don’t get me started with Spirit Rangers.

A condition damage elementalist will never beat my power elementalist, I can even be naked and it will end with a stalemate.

Obviously, your skill level will need to scale to meet your opponent. That has nothing to do with the raw capability of the build relative to other professions.

I have little trouble defeating condi thieves, stun lock warriors, or spirit rangers. I’ll admit the obvious that certain necros and engi builds can be extremely difficult, but then every class has a weakness; this is no disadvantage. With the right modifications, there is no reason this kind of build couldn’t defeat a similarly skilled necro or engi (e.g., using Melandru runes, Ether Renewal, Cleansing Fire, etc).

Please don’t confuse your own experience playing an ele, with mine or anyone else’s. We all have different play-styles and techniques, strengths and weaknesses, etc.

Here’s an idea. If you’re so confident, why not try dueling me in-game? I’ll record it for everyone to see how you killed or stalemated me with your naked power ele. laugh

The issue with Condi eles is they can really only stack one damaging condition at a time: Burning while in Fire, Bleeds while in Earth. Other Condi specs can stack at least three, and usually four for some time: Engis have Bleed, Poison, Burning, and some Confusion, Necros have Bleed, Poison, Burning, and some Torment and Fear, etc. This means that for condi eles to be viable, they either need access to another condition or two, for their Bleeds/Burning need to be really, really easy to apply and last for a really long time, or some combination of both.

How about these two changes:

Persisting Flames also increasing our Burning duration by 30%.

Scrap Diamond Skin, change it to “Leaded Stone: You apply 5 seconds of Poison every time you apply Bleed (1-second internal cooldown per target).”

Gesamtkunstwerk.6590:

With the right modifications, there is no reason this kind of build couldn’t defeat a similarly skilled necro or engi (e.g., using Melandru runes, Ether Renewal, Cleansing Fire, etc).

I understand what you are trying to say, but have you actually tried using the skills you proposed. Ether Renewal is not viable at even mid-level pvp as the long channel makes it a “kill me now” button. You could try to use earth, but that means that you are sitting out of earth so you can actually heal, so your condi ele isn’t stacking one of its condis. Cleansing fire works 1 time, but cannot keep pace with the condis which will just be re-applied in 5s, and is utterly useless against non-condi classes (not even a stun-break).

That being said, I don’t think A-net plans on making condi ele viable, as that would mean specialization as opposed to jack of all trades. If they really wanted to make condi-ele viable, they would need traits like “Burning Ice: Chills you apply also cause burning” or “Tormented Earth: Cripples you apply also cause torment.” If they want to go borderline OP: “Stone specialist: each bleed you apply gives 2x the number of stacks with 80% of the original duration.” There has to be some way to stack multiple kinds of conditions or apply them very quickly.

BlackBeard.2873:

I understand what you are trying to say, but have you actually tried using the skills you proposed. Ether Renewal is not viable at even mid-level pvp as the long channel makes it a “kill me now” button. You could try to use earth, but that means that you are sitting out of earth so you can actually heal, so your condi ele isn’t stacking one of its condis. Cleansing fire works 1 time, but cannot keep pace with the condis which will just be re-applied in 5s, and is utterly useless against non-condi classes (not even a stun-break).

I use arcane shield, final shielding, earth’s embrace, obsidian flesh, strafing/positioning to prevent channel interrupts. This is an over-hyped QQ non-issue. Cleansing fire is merely one means to cleanse conditions, not the most important means. I rarely use it, personally, but if I were sufficiently motivated to beat a necro/engi, I would use it.

One of the biggest problems for conditions builds of Ele – not enough conditions. I mean they have Burning and Bleeding thats it and even then its a choice of one or the other and if they need to go Water? then none, go air then its none.

Necro has access to nearly every condition, Mesmer has access to nearly every condition, even Engi has a nice amount but Ele has TWO….

lol you guys have no idea.. i will try to get some nice footage when i get home… i have destroyed every power ele i have come across along with all the other condi spam builds. perma burning and confusion .. the 2 best condis in game with huge uptimes… it is ridiculous … and the build is just 0-0-20-20-30 with apothecary

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

One of the biggest problems for conditions builds of Ele – not enough conditions. I mean they have Burning and Bleeding thats it and even then its a choice of one or the other and if they need to go Water? then none, go air then its none.

Necro has access to nearly every condition, Mesmer has access to nearly every condition, even Engi has a nice amount but Ele has TWO….

Even Warriors have Torment.

The issue in my option isn’t really the number, the problem is Air and Water.

If you switch to air and water from earth or fire, for 10 seconds you don’t have access to either bleeding or burning. 10 SECONDS.

“Burning precision” : 30% chance to cause burning on crit (adept fire magic)
“signet of fire” : 10s burn (20s CD)
“Glyph of elemental power” : 25% chance to trigger a condition depending of attunement

Just sit on earth with this and a sigil of earth on a scepter and you gain : perma bleeding (at least 13 stack), perma cripple and perma burning. Not even challenging…

When you are on air or water you will still add burning and bleeding on crit… plus weakness for air or chill for water. Come on I don’t like to say this but here, it’s a L2P problem… or perhaps a L2Gear and build problem ^^

Look, if you really wanted to, you could use doom sigil for added poison (+ increased condi duration from fire, runes, and sigil of venom). It’s entirely possible to have burning, bleeding, and poison on your foe at the same time. Example: glyph of storms (while attuned to earth, inflict bleeding) flamewall, fireshield, phoenix, flamestrike, and dragon’s tooth all for fire, sigil of geomancy/doom to inflict bleeding/poison on swap, gale, stone shards, ice bow, ice storm for more bleeding. Factor in the condi duration from fire/runes/sigils, and you can maintain all 3.

Nova Stiker.8396:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

One of the biggest problems for conditions builds of Ele – not enough conditions. I mean they have Burning and Bleeding thats it and even then its a choice of one or the other and if they need to go Water? then none, go air then its none.

Necro has access to nearly every condition, Mesmer has access to nearly every condition, even Engi has a nice amount but Ele has TWO….

Even Warriors have Torment.

The issue in my option isn’t really the number, the problem is Air and Water.

If you switch to air and water from earth or fire, for 10 seconds you don’t have access to either bleeding or burning. 10 SECONDS.

Yeah i really think the water tree is the problem for the WHOLE class, they cant buff anything thanks to how strong the healing/support is.

what they should do is Add “Arcane” Attunement this attunement will be PURE condition damage skills.

OR

Make specific weapons PURE condition weapons, this would require opening up more weapon options due to the limited number the ele has

Gesamtkunstwerk.6590:

I use arcane shield, final shielding, earth’s embrace, obsidian flesh, strafing/positioning to prevent channel interrupts. This is an over-hyped QQ non-issue. Cleansing fire is merely one means to cleanse conditions, not the most important means. I rarely use it, personally, but if I were sufficiently motivated to beat a necro/engi, I would use it.

Wait, you play focus in pvp (lol), in a mode other than hot-join? And you aren’t insta-ganked from thieves or signet of spite condi-bombed from necros? I have tried focus for the condi-cleanse on earth 4, but could just never actually deal enough damage to kill anything, and couldn’t last as long as /D without movement or healing. Can you give some idea of your spec and where you are actually using it effectively?

Also, strafing does nothing to prevent the fear-mark placed at your feet, any engineer interrupt, many warrior interrupts, thief headshot on D/P – especially when you are trying to fight on a node. LOS also isn’t available everywhere (only a few places). You trade mobility (a defensive thing) for better ranged defense, and yet you don’t just get insta-ganked by a perma-evade thief, spirit ranger, or condi-bomb necro?

BlackBeard.2873:

Wait, you play focus in pvp (lol), in a mode other than hot-join? And you aren’t insta-ganked from thieves or signet of spite condi-bombed from necros? I have tried focus for the condi-cleanse on earth 4, but could just never actually deal enough damage to kill anything, and couldn’t last as long as /D without movement or healing. Can you give some idea of your spec and where you are actually using it effectively?

No, I do quite well… I get ganked by necros frequently, but that’s about it. After much experimenting with different builds, I’ve settled on scepter/focus as the best option.

My three primary stats are:

• 1455 condition damage
• 3 109 armor
• 744 healing power

Traits: 0/0/30/10/30

• Earth: earth’s embrace, serrated stones, diamond skin.
• Water: cleansing wave
• Arcana: final shielding, elemental attunement, evasive arcana.

Utilities: ether renewal, arcane shield, glyph of storms, and frost bow.

Sigils: geomancy and superior corruption.

This is a heavily defensive/cc oriented build that excels in uncapping points and playing the bunker/support role. Offensively, though, my main skill rotation has the effect of stun locking a single target for 9+ seconds while executing 4 blast finishers and massive burning/bleeding. This and other tactics will murder many players cold. That’s all I’ll say.

Gesamtkunstwerk.6590:

No, I do quite well… I get ganked by necros frequently, but that’s about it. After much experimenting with different builds, I’ve settled on scepter/focus as the best option.

My three primary stats are:

• 1455 condition damage
• 3 109 armor
• 744 healing power

Traits: 0/0/30/10/30

• Earth: earth’s embrace, serrated stones, diamond skin.
• Water: cleansing wave
• Arcana: final shielding, elemental attunement, evasive arcana.

Utilities: ether renewal, arcane shield, glyph of storms, and frost bow.

Sigils: geomancy and superior corruption.

This is a heavily defensive/cc oriented build that excels in uncapping points and playing the bunker/support role. Offensively, though, my main skill rotation has the effect of stun locking a single target for 9+ seconds while executing 4 blast finishers and massive burning/bleeding. This and other tactics will murder many players cold. That’s all I’ll say.

I would really like to see this build in action, because many of those utilities are unviable, and your complete lack of stability/only 1 stun-break makes you unable to deal with condi or power-burst (no health, even though you have some toughness). How do you even land anything on a good thief, deal with ranger spirits/evade spam, or survive vs. a stun-lock warrior who can ignore your condies. I only bring up these classes b/c they are the most common right now.

BlackBeard.2873:

I would really like to see this build in action, because many of those utilities are unviable, and your complete lack of stability/only 1 stun-break makes you unable to deal with condi or power-burst (no health, even though you have some toughness). How do you even land anything on a good thief, deal with ranger spirits/evade spam, or survive vs. a stun-lock warrior who can ignore your condies. I only bring up these classes b/c they are the most common right now.

I think it comes down to execution: How you chain your skills together, and how quickly you can move between attunements. I’ll give you an example:

1. starting in air, blinding flash + lightning strike
2a. earth, glyph of storms/sandstorm
2b. optional, sometimes I’ll use obsidian flesh to protect my frost bow attacks.
3. frostbow, either ice storm or deep freeze depending on the situation.
4. once frozen, 5 seconds, I’m free to move into fire uninterrupted
5. in 5 seconds I tend to go ice storm (50% self-interrupt), flamewall, pheonix, flame shield, dragon’s tooth (2 blast finishers), air gale (knockdown while coming out of deep freeze), another blinding flash + lightning strike, water, comet (3rd blast finisher and chain interrupt), freezing gust, earth, magnetic wave (4th blast)
6. at this point I’ll either go into a healing rotation, blast them down with more condis, or hit tornado (to let skills cd and uncap point).

Note that I have several stun breakers/evasive maneuvers: several blinds, arcane shield x 2, earth’s embrace, swirling winds/magnetic wave (against projectile), obsidian flesh, and dodge obviously. With my high toughness, healing power, and condi removal the low vitality is a non-issue, in my experience. It will be very hard to 12k damage, my full health bar, without me getting the chance to evade/cleanse/heal/interrupt. The whole point is to maintain control of the fight. You should be the one locking the enemy, not the other way around.

It all comes back to the same problem the Ele has always had.

It’s never been a question if you can pull it off and make it happen. It’s just a lot of extra work to pull off to get the same results another class can do with faceroll ease.

Dadnir.5038:

“Burning precision” : 30% chance to cause burning on crit (adept fire magic)
“signet of fire” : 10s burn (20s CD)
“Glyph of elemental power” : 25% chance to trigger a condition depending of attunement

Just sit on earth with this and a sigil of earth on a scepter and you gain : perma bleeding (at least 13 stack), perma cripple and perma burning. Not even challenging…

When you are on air or water you will still add burning and bleeding on crit… plus weakness for air or chill for water. Come on I don’t like to say this but here, it’s a L2P problem… or perhaps a L2Gear and build problem ^^

Superior Sigil of Earth has a two second cooldown, provides one stack of bleed for 5 seconds. Maybe you are getting 2 stacks. That is not much to get excited about given the other options. (0.05 * Condition Damage) + 42.5 per stack per second at level 80.
Or take 5% of stat +42.5, per second per stack, times two stacks, is not alot at level 80. Probably why it is only about 70s on the TP.

Going 10 in Fire for Burning Precision. (0.25 * Condition Damage) + (320) + 8 damage per second at level 80. At least we are getting 25% of our condition damage and 4 times our level is added (the 320).

In other words, we don’t get alot for the couple of extra stacks of bleed using a valuable sigil slot. The one stack of burning however can add up to some decent numbers even without any condtion stats, over alot of time.

I can take the same number of points in condition and put it in power and get bigger results. In condition we are only getting a fraction of the stat added to the damage. In power, we get that stat multiplied by up to 200% by weapon skill coefficients. Granted condition is not mitagated by armor. But in a game where other classes can burst our health in light armor to zero in seconds, the time it takes to apply enough burns and bleeds to add up to anything takes too long. It’s a nice bonus though. I do like to see the stacks of bleeds from Eruption and Churning Earth. Too bad they cant both be had on the same weapon sets.

btw, the Glyph of Elemental Power only uses the attunement bonus that you were in when you proc the Glyph. It does not change bonuses as you change attunements. Maybe you knew that. I just was reading your post and interpreted what you said as thinking that you were procing all those condtions all the time in all the attunements as you change attunements. You only get one. You chose that one when you use it.

We need to be able to get MORE STACKS of our 2 condtions. More stacks from more weapon skills, more options to stack from different attunements, instead of one trait in fire for burning, one mediocre sigil for bleeding, and a glyph for burning.

Baladir.2736:

We need to be able to get MORE STACKS of our 2 condtions. More stacks from more weapon skills, more options to stack from different attunements, instead of one trait in fire for bleeds, one mediocre sigil for bleeding, and a glyph for burning.

More stacks isnt the answer, in my opinion they need MORE conditions. Sure burning but Ele need access to other sources.

They should add “Arcane” Attunement. Aimed at giving conditions, this would be a “dark” attunement so the kills would have more of a “evil” feel to them but not Necro as necro is more about death. This sort of attunement could REALLY open up the class to proper condition builds.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Baladir.2736:

We need to be able to get MORE STACKS of our 2 condtions. More stacks from more weapon skills, more options to stack from different attunements, instead of one trait in fire for bleeds, one mediocre sigil for bleeding, and a glyph for burning.

More stacks isnt the answer, in my opinion they need MORE conditions. Sure burning but Ele need access to other sources.

They should add “Arcane” Attunement. Aimed at giving conditions, this would be a “dark” attunement so the kills would have more of a “evil” feel to them but not Necro as necro is more about death. This sort of attunement could REALLY open up the class to proper condition builds.

More conditions sure lol. Why not ask for the moon.

Ya know, using the Arcane trait line for attunement conditions sounds nice actually. The things we get in Arcane now we use just to survive. We could get them for free and that only equals balance. So give me a self heal on water attunement for free. Give me evasive aracana for free. The heal and blast finisher there are the only things any good and are not OP. Give me renewing stamina for free.

Having an entire trait line devoted to survival and Getting to equality is a waste of trait points.

You should put that in suggestions forum.

Baladir.2736:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Baladir.2736:

We need to be able to get MORE STACKS of our 2 condtions. More stacks from more weapon skills, more options to stack from different attunements, instead of one trait in fire for bleeds, one mediocre sigil for bleeding, and a glyph for burning.

More stacks isnt the answer, in my opinion they need MORE conditions. Sure burning but Ele need access to other sources.

They should add “Arcane” Attunement. Aimed at giving conditions, this would be a “dark” attunement so the kills would have more of a “evil” feel to them but not Necro as necro is more about death. This sort of attunement could REALLY open up the class to proper condition builds.

More conditions sure lol. Why not ask for the moon.

Ya know, using the Arcane trait line for attunement conditions sounds nice actually. The things we get in Arcane now we use just to survive. We could get them for free and that only equals balance. So give me a self heal on water attunement for free. Give me evasive aracana for free. Give me renewing stamina for free. The heal and blast finisher there are the only things any good and are not OP.

Having an entire trait line devoted to survival to Getting to equality is a waste of trait points.

You should put that in suggestions forum.

Now of course not access to all conditions – Confusion i think they shouldnt get (neither should Engi but thats another story for another thread) they shouldnt get Fear either but i dont see why they shouldnt get access to things like

Bleeding, Burning, Torment, Weakness, ect. yes i know they have Burning and bleeding currently they are on different attunements so moving/adding them into a whole new attunement wouldnt break the class or anything.

Yeah i think i will, thinking about some example skills as we speak

Right added a thread in Suggestions, Tell me what you guys think, and what changes you would make (in the thread)

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Arcane-Attunement-An-Ele-Condition-Idea/first#post2681438

Are those new runes available in spvp, haven’t been bothered to check yet.

TGSlasher.1458:

Are those new runes available in spvp, haven’t been bothered to check yet.

Nope, neither of them are.

Comparing any classes condi build to necro’s and engi’s is bad because those the 2 best condi professions in the game. Also saying a necro will wreck a condi ele is true and that is pretty much just about any condi build since necro can transfer back conditions 2 ways on weapon skills and 1 utility and wipe with the heal.

Frownyclowns build looks decent from his video it’s attrition condition not every class can burst condi including elementalist. Without the new runes of perplexity mesmers couldnt burst condi. Thief can burst condi you if he uses all his utility slots for venoms but then he is a sitting duck. I think ele condi build is probably on par with a P/D thief that is running at most 1 venom.

Kodiak.3281:

It all comes back to the same problem the Ele has always had.

It’s never been a question if you can pull it off and make it happen. It’s just a lot of extra work to pull off to get the same results another class can do with faceroll ease.

This. ^

My suggestion is to make the conditions we apply with our weapons simply last longer.

Perhaps buff Glyph of Elemental Power so that our chance to trigger the effect goes up to 35%+ and that the conditions we apply with it last longer then they do now.

This make a condition focused elementalist build a legitimate threat, and it buffs the quality of life for pretty much every other spec without making it OP.

It would force a cleanse from the victim any which way.

Whereas at present, unless you’re a dedicated condition spec working your kitten off to almost be on par with other condition specced classes, your conditions are being ignored.

By simply making them last longer and with a suggested Glyph of Elemental Power buff, this isn’t actually making them any different then what it is now, but making the application, the actual condition play easier.

You’ll still need to invest a bit in condition damage if you want it to matter any, but for folks that can and would spec for it, the quality of life for this play goes way up.

It becomes a legitimate threat, the condition specced elementalist becomes very dangerous in it’s own right. As it should be.

We’re not chain fearing you, but we’ll have our own flavor of condition destruction.

For people that dabble in it and where it’s more of a secondary thing, it becomes more then a simple after thought.

Not enough on it’s own to matter, but relevant enough where it demands a cleanse to bring that DPS down.

It makes our conditions mean something.

Whereas now we can make it “work” to a lesser degree then most other classes condition spec, with this proposed buff we would be strong, a viable condition class.

Not OP. Just serious.

And seeing that the vast majority of elementalist skill applications do apply conditions, I would think that is the goal.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

TGSlasher.1458:

Are those new runes available in spvp, haven’t been bothered to check yet.

Nope, neither of them are.

Lame … I also wanted the Altruism rune for pvp, better luck next time I guess

TGSlasher.1458:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

TGSlasher.1458:

Are those new runes available in spvp, haven’t been bothered to check yet.

Nope, neither of them are.

Lame … I also wanted the Altruism rune for pvp, better luck next time I guess

I was talking Perplexity and Tormenting no idea about Altruisim though, but i THINK its not – thats the Might buffing one right?

CETheLucid.3964:

And seeing that the vast majority of elementalist skill applications do apply conditions, I would think that is the goal.

Staff: 10/20 include conditions and i am counting ALL conditions, it goes down to 4/20 when you count only damaging conditions….

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

TGSlasher.1458:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

TGSlasher.1458:

Are those new runes available in spvp, haven’t been bothered to check yet.

Nope, neither of them are.

Lame … I also wanted the Altruism rune for pvp, better luck next time I guess

I was talking Perplexity and Tormenting no idea about Altruisim though, but i THINK its not – thats the Might buffing one right?

Yea, they brought it out at Christmas time. Give might and fury on heal from memory. As well as 15% boon duraiton

TGSlasher.1458:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

TGSlasher.1458:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

TGSlasher.1458:

Are those new runes available in spvp, haven’t been bothered to check yet.

Nope, neither of them are.

Lame … I also wanted the Altruism rune for pvp, better luck next time I guess

I was talking Perplexity and Tormenting no idea about Altruisim though, but i THINK its not – thats the Might buffing one right?

Yea, they brought it out at Christmas time. Give might and fury on heal from memory. As well as 15% boon duraiton

Yeah i used to run 4/6 if i remember correctly, just enough to get the Might on Heal for my Might stacking Mesmer build

They were quite solid, though replaced when i changed build

I have full celestial, including staff, and 2 giver’s daggers for d/d, with perplexity runes, and the damage is abysmal. I have another dagger with geomancy on it. Still terrible. The fact that I can beat someone in a WvW is because people in WvW are bad.

Burning is an amazing condition, and you only really see the power of fire with scepter and meteor in zerkers. The condition itself it bad. There’s no point to use condition duration as an ele because it doesn’t scale worth anything such as crit/crit damage, and power do.

I love spamming auto-attack in air with scepter. It’s nice to have an ez-mode role like a thief gets to do.

I wish that water 2 in scepter automatically went on your target instead of having to cast mouse-target it onto things.

Fishbones.6914:

lol you guys have no idea.. i will try to get some nice footage when i get home… i have destroyed every power ele i have come across along with all the other condi spam builds. perma burning and confusion .. the 2 best condis in game with huge uptimes… it is ridiculous … and the build is just 0-0-20-20-30 with apothecary

Having fought Deez with this build, trust me when I say it’s everything he claims. It’s really, really not fun to fight.

Kodiak.3281:

It all comes back to the same problem the Ele has always had.

It’s never been a question if you can pull it off and make it happen. It’s just a lot of extra work to pull off to get the same results another class can do with faceroll ease.

and I am perfectly OK with that. The problem is right now being prefect on ele is not enought against the obvious OP builds – it is not possible to win.
Also being perfect on ele means you have to be perfect on the class you face cuz as Gesamtkunstwerk wrote “you should be the one locking the enemy, not the other way around” and this requires you to know everything about your enemy and REACT to what he is doing. This is not the case for OP builds where you do your job almost complethly ignoring the enemy (you do the same no matter who you fight against) and still win or draw. Such OP builds are OK, especailly for begginers but experienced players should be abble to defet such builds with ease and on any class – right now it is not possible.
In other words right now we have Build Wars 2 and I would like this game to be Skills Wars 2

Fishbones.6914:

lol you guys have no idea.. i will try to get some nice footage when i get home… i have destroyed every power ele i have come across along with all the other condi spam builds. perma burning and confusion .. the 2 best condis in game with huge uptimes… it is ridiculous … and the build is just 0-0-20-20-30 with apothecary

I would be interested in some videos, i have yet to be beaten by any Condition build as mine.

he is obviously talking about WvW, dont take him seriously with his PvE equip and PvE runes

No the problem is the poor design of condition removal skills in the first place, and it doesn’t just affect our class. We only have two damaging conditions and two non-damaging ones, warriors generally have two damaging and one non, while guardians really only have one condition period. Necros and mesmers on the other hand have completely viable condition builds because they apply a half dozen or more types at a time, and one condition removal skill will not mitigate 50-100% of their damage.

The solution is obvious, condition removal needs to be changed to remove a certain amount of seconds or stacks, not entire conditions. But that would require ANet to put work into anything besides greatswords and zerker gear…

EDIT: To address ArmageddonAsh, I almost always run power or turrets on my engi. Sorry I didn’t address them but I know nothing whatsoever about their condition builds so it’s best I don’t.

and what about Engineers? Warriors can even have better condition builds as well. The biggest problem is the fact that 2 of the 4 attunements have no damaging conditions and the other 2 have 1 in each. Forcing you to jump around the Attunements.

Just make a “Arcane” Attunement for conditions and a bit of tweaking balancing result = Ele have a viable condition build.

What if…
Burning precision: 100% chance on crit to apply 2 seconds of burning.
Diamond skin: +10% of your toughness as condition damage, cripple now deals damage over time.(or maybe cripple also adds poison?)
Shatterstone: also applies chill.
Blinding flash also applies 3 stacks of confusion for 3 seconds.
Impale applies 2 stacks of bleeding.
Gust also applies 4 stacks of confusion for 5 seconds.
Gale applies weakness and 5 stacks of confusion for 4 seconds.
Flamewall now applies 5 seconds of burning.
Fire shield(flame aura) applies 2s of burning instead of 1.
Dust devil applies 4 stacks of confusion for 2 seconds
Would that be enough to give us a condition build?

Wryog.5073:

What if…
Burning precision: 100% chance on crit to apply 2 seconds of burning.
Diamond skin: +10% of your toughness as condition damage, cripple now deals damage over time.(or maybe cripple also adds poison?)
Shatterstone: also applies chill.
Blinding flash also applies 3 stacks of confusion for 3 seconds.
Impale applies 2 stacks of bleeding.
Gust also applies 4 stacks of confusion for 5 seconds.
Gale applies weakness and 5 stacks of confusion for 4 seconds.
Flamewall now applies 5 seconds of burning.
Fire shield(flame aura) applies 2s of burning instead of 1.
Dust devil applies 4 stacks of confusion for 2 seconds
Would that be enough to give us a condition build?

I dont think it would, the problem remains:
Forced into changing Attunemtns to make the most of them
Attunement swap cool down too high

Confusion doesnt suit Ele what so ever, it doesnt even suit Engi but thats another post in another thread. So all the confusion would need to be replaced with something else. if a new Attunement is out of the question then i think:

Fire: Burning, Vul
Water: Chill,
Air: Blind, Immobilize, Weakness
Earth: Bleeding, Torment, Poison, Cripple

Burning and Vul suit fire, i mean armor could be melted off thus weakened. chill is obvious for water but thats about it. Air suits Blind, Weakness and Immobilize Earth is obvious as well with just Poison and Torment added

Having access to 2 damaging conditions in 2 separate trees is just not enough to be able to make a condition build around. The traits are another area that just screen “dont make condition builds” due to the overall lack of condition traits

Though i prefer my “Arcane” Attunement idea which is posted in the suggestions forum if you are interested

Hmmm… Maybe diamond skin should apply torment every time you use a slow on an enemy?(chill/cripple)
Also getting hit by lightning and not getting damaged would definitely confuse me xD.
Gale needs SOMETHING. It’s just terrible right now.

Wryog.5073:

Hmmm… Maybe diamond skin should apply torment every time you use a slow on an enemy?(chill/cripple)
Also getting hit by lightning and not getting damaged would definitely confuse me xD.
Gale needs SOMETHING. It’s just terrible right now.

How about turning EARTH into the condition tree?
I mean it does a few at the moment. A tweak to the tree could see it become a solid one.

Diamond Skin: Increase Condition damage by 10% of Toughness, Crits have a 50% chance to cause 5 seconds of Torment. This would have NO cool down, it being 1 stack or have it cause 5 seconds of Torment at 5stacks with a 10second ICD

Mmmmm Maybe a trait that gives a 50% chance on knockdown to cause a damaging effect? Maybe a condition(s) or something?

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Wryog.5073:

Hmmm… Maybe diamond skin should apply torment every time you use a slow on an enemy?(chill/cripple)
Also getting hit by lightning and not getting damaged would definitely confuse me xD.
Gale needs SOMETHING. It’s just terrible right now.

How about turning EARTH into the condition tree?
I mean it does a few at the moment. A tweak to the tree could see it become a solid one.

Diamond Skin: Increase Condition damage by 10% of Toughness, Crits have a 50% chance to cause 5 seconds of Torment. This would have NO cool down, it being 1 stack or have it cause 5 seconds of Torment at 5stacks with a 10second ICD

Mmmmm Maybe a trait that gives a 50% chance on knockdown to cause a damaging effect? Maybe a condition(s) or something?

Torment would be so ridiculously overpowered… plus torment doesn’t really fit Eles any better than confusion or poison.

Anyway, were that to be added that brings us back the the problem of mono-attunement builds in the first place. Simple fact is, no Ele builds are currently efficient that don’t go in to the arcane tree, which offers nothing for condition builds. Personally I think adding in condition stuff to arcane would be the cheap and quick method, and I would rather see traits in the other trees that make mono and duo attunement builds more efficient.

And then of course the previously stated problem with condition removals, and condition stacking, and gearing for condition duration… pretty sure we could make a shorter list of what is working properly about condition builds than we could about what isn’t…

Conncept.7638:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Wryog.5073:

Hmmm… Maybe diamond skin should apply torment every time you use a slow on an enemy?(chill/cripple)
Also getting hit by lightning and not getting damaged would definitely confuse me xD.
Gale needs SOMETHING. It’s just terrible right now.

How about turning EARTH into the condition tree?
I mean it does a few at the moment. A tweak to the tree could see it become a solid one.

Diamond Skin: Increase Condition damage by 10% of Toughness, Crits have a 50% chance to cause 5 seconds of Torment. This would have NO cool down, it being 1 stack or have it cause 5 seconds of Torment at 5stacks with a 10second ICD

Mmmmm Maybe a trait that gives a 50% chance on knockdown to cause a damaging effect? Maybe a condition(s) or something?

Torment would be so ridiculously overpowered… plus torment doesn’t really fit Eles any better than confusion or poison.

Anyway, were that to be added that brings us back the the problem of mono-attunement builds in the first place. Simple fact is, no Ele builds are currently efficient that don’t go in to the arcane tree, which offers nothing for condition builds. Personally I think adding in condition stuff to arcane would be the cheap and quick method, and I would rather see traits in the other trees that make mono and duo attunement builds more efficient.

And then of course the previously stated problem with condition removals, and condition stacking, and gearing for condition duration… pretty sure we could make a shorter list of what is working properly about condition builds than we could about what isn’t…

It wouldnt be over powered at all, Mesmer can have 16.5second of 5! stacks of Torment on a 9.25second cool down. THAT is much stronger. Poison and Torment BOTH fit better then confusion, if tied to the Earth skills or even added to a changed up Serated Stones fit quite well for Poison and seeing its an Earth tree Torment could be doing damage because they are weighed down with something. So both conditions could easily be worked into ele, unlike Confusion.

Seeing as it would be ONE stack of confusion, with a 50% chance to proc it would still be doing alot less damage then if Torment procs on Mesmer Scepter which with 1,117 Condition damage does 2,951+2951 damage over 8 3/4seconds on a 12 second cool down and i am not even traited for Scepter cool downs or condition duration my damage comes from Confusion

I agree, currently being forced into Arcane tree and currently being forced into swapping Attunements every chance you get is doing serious damage to both the class and possible builds. They really messed up here, they should have made it so you COULD stay in 1 attunement.

Like if you wanted pure damage, you stay in Fire, want a little less damage but more mobility/control then you stay in Air, Water is if you need to be support and Earth if you are getting wailed on or want conditions (if Earth became a condition tree)