Guild Wars 2

Just an idea ive been suggesting for a while now. You dont see condi eles in pvp because we don’t have the best conditions ingame, although burning is acceptable its way to easily cleansed constantly because we lack the ability to really stack anymore than 2 conditions at a time (burning and bleed) and our bleed stacking is lackluster, if you use a scepter you know it takes way to long to stack those bleeds in a fight and if anything gets in their way they hit that first.

We need another condition to stack and so Ive had this idea for a while now.

Toxic fumes- fire traitline. 30% chance on burning to inflict poison on enemies (3-5 seconds) maybe some sort of internal cooldown so it isn’t to spammable?

Nobody ever really uses the fire traitline because it is lackluster and this will give condi eles a poison finally and people a reason to trait into fire as this isn’t only useful to just condi eles so i think we will see more diversity in the ele community as a whole.

If this idea were implimented i think that it being a master trait would be fair.

Ideas, suggestions?

-Second idea- on top of this idea i was thinking maybe buff eles signets aswell as nobody is really using them in pvp

-Signet of fire- Add a poison to it, 3-5 seconds on top of the burning
Signet of earth- Add 3 stacks of bleed for 6 seconds on top of the immoblize
signet of water- increase chill duration by 50%
Signet of air- I think is good where it’s at, stunbreak and a blind

Necros get signet of spite which is basically just all of our signets combined into one more powerful ability so i think its only fair if each individual signet of ours see’s a buff.

~Good suggestions for Toxic fumes~

Kamui.3150:

If it were a guaranteed Poison application whenever Burning was applied with an ICD then I’d see no issues. That way it’s equally viable with Flame Burst on Staff and Drake’s Breath on mainhand Dagger. You could have a 5 sec Poison application with a 10 sec CD and you’d be pretty much set, maybe make it a Master tier trait.

Yes!
Elementalists are lacking poison!
We don’t need an internal cooldown because ele’s can only apply burning so many times and that it’s on a 30% chance.

I’d rather it be: Inflict Poison with burning: with an ICD.

To be honest i would also be ok with a trait that made it so when our fire fields go away a poison field is left in its place, I’d say if it’s just a 30% chance when applying burning only give it like a 1-2 second ICD since we are lacking on burns, now if it had a chance to trigger on all our fire fields…. That’d be different xD!

I like the signet suggestions too!! I approve then all!

Durzlla.6295:

To be honest i would also be ok with a trait that made it so when our fire fields go away a poison field is left in its place, I’d say if it’s just a 30% chance when applying burning only give it like a 1-2 second ICD since we are lacking on burns, now if it had a chance to trigger on all our fire fields…. That’d be different xD!

I like the signet suggestions too!! I approve then all!

Thank you both! I’m glad to see people are finding my suggestions to be fair and a step towards bringing the extinct builds of ele bring closer to being balanced while adding diversity

If it were a guaranteed Poison application whenever Burning was applied with an ICD then I’d see no issues. That way it’s equally viable with Flame Burst on Staff and Drake’s Breath on mainhand Dagger. You could have a 5 sec Poison application with a 10 sec CD and you’d be pretty much set, maybe make it a Master tier trait.

Kamui.3150:

If it were a guaranteed Poison application whenever Burning was applied with an ICD then I’d see no issues. That way it’s equally viable with Flame Burst on Staff and Drake’s Breath on mainhand Dagger. You could have a 5 sec Poison application with a 10 sec CD and you’d be pretty much set, maybe make it a Master tier trait.

That’s a good suggestion. I don’t see this being to powerful or to underwhelming either, but just right as a poison applying method for eles and yes i think Master Tier is the right place for a trait like this.

If you really want poison, you can use the weapon swap sigil that causes poison…and have 50% uptime without gear or traits.

The main thing however is that eles aren’t supposed to be condition spammers. They’re doing a bit of everything, and if you specialize them, they become less powerful overall. That’s the design philosophy and I doubt it’ll change. IMHO of course.

To be honest, I am not sold on trying to shoehorn elementalist into being a condition class. That said, if it were to happen … I would say Poison fits better in the Water line.

If there was a condition ELE you would want one condition type per attunement so you never locked yourself out of your damage output.

Here are the holes that needed to be filled (with Poison included):
Control / Damage / Boon
Fire: (( )) / Burning / Might
Earth: Cripple / Bleed / Protection
Water: Chill / ((Poison)) / Regeneration
Air: Weakness / (( )) / Swiftness

Air has stun/blowout/blindness as control effects.

Taldren.7523:

To be honest, I am not sold on trying to shoehorn elementalist into being a condition class. That said, if it were to happen … I would say Poison fits better in the Water line.

If there was a condition ELE you would want one condition type per attunement so you never locked yourself out of your damage output.

Here are the holes that needed to be filled (with Poison included):
Control / Damage / Boon
Fire: (( )) / Burning / Might
Earth: Cripple / Bleed / Protection
Water: Chill / ((Poison)) / Regeneration
Air: Weakness / (( )) / Swiftness

Water also has direct heals, condition removal, and more importantly, vulnerability, poison also just doesn’t make sense in a realistic element perspective either, where poison in fire would, smoke suffocates, volcanic smoke can be poisonous, thus it makes sense for fire to get access to poison and not water.

also, air has blinds and hard CC, the only attunement that’s really lacking imo would be fire, ESPECIALLY the fire traitline, it needs -something- and poison may just be that thing to give fire traits that edge, remember poison hurts healing and makes the sustained damage of fire more effective in that regard.

Senjun.8149:

Just an idea ive been suggesting for a while now. You dont see condi eles in pvp because we don’t have the best conditions ingame, although burning is acceptable its way to easily cleansed constantly because we lack the ability to really stack anymore than 2 conditions at a time (burning and bleed) and our bleed stacking is lackluster, if you use a scepter you know it takes way to long to stack those bleeds in a fight and if anything gets in their way they hit that first.

We need another condition to stack and so Ive had this idea for a while now.

In PvP, we don’t need more condition spam in the game. We also don’t need more passive unavoidable procs similar to incendiary powder and dhuumfire. Our conditions are mostly fine. It’s the other condition spam that needs to be toned down and subsequently some of the condition removal which imo would both work together to improve the state of a PvP condi ele.

ThiBash.5634:

If you really want poison, you can use the weapon swap sigil that causes poison…and have 50% uptime without gear or traits.

The main thing however is that eles aren’t supposed to be condition spammers. They’re doing a bit of everything, and if you specialize them, they become less powerful overall. That’s the design philosophy and I doubt it’ll change. IMHO of course.

Ele’s lack diversity, you’re either a water field spammer or a power house with small amounts of condition damage. We can also do minimal condition stacking with a small amount of power damage to back it up. You really don’t see many diverse builds of ele although i understand your point of view of course! but although eles do a bit of everything you specialize in something.

Whether it be power, healing or condi dmg you are stronger in 1 of those areas. Eles who choose to be stronger in the condition area, are lackluster, we are the “Jack of all trades” but you really only see very limited builds of ele since our fire traitline and earth traitline are so under-rated

The Earth traitline isn’t bad in my opinion, people just tend not to use it because it passively boosts your condition damage, they usually take it for the toughness and has several good traits. Nobody take’s fire because its traits are very lackluster, fire is supposedly moreso about conditions but it doesn’t give us enough to work with.

This is all of course coming from personal opinion and observation

As long as it’s an adept or master trait. They keep ruining new potentially useful traits by making them grandmasters.

I would prefer if Anet made a trait that hasten the damage done by burns. Easy for a burn spec ele to place a 30sec burn on a target but rarely will it do full damage. So dhow about a trait like intense flames: all burns durations are decrease by 50% and damage increase by 50%. Something like that would be very helpful.

Durzlla.6295:

Taldren.7523:

To be honest, I am not sold on trying to shoehorn elementalist into being a condition class. That said, if it were to happen … I would say Poison fits better in the Water line.

If there was a condition ELE you would want one condition type per attunement so you never locked yourself out of your damage output.

Here are the holes that needed to be filled (with Poison included):
Control / Damage / Boon
Fire: (( )) / Burning / Might
Earth: Cripple / Bleed / Protection
Water: Chill / ((Poison)) / Regeneration
Air: Weakness / (( )) / Swiftness

Water also has direct heals, condition removal, and more importantly, vulnerability, poison also just doesn’t make sense in a realistic element perspective either, where poison in fire would, smoke suffocates, volcanic smoke can be poisonous, thus it makes sense for fire to get access to poison and not water.

also, air has blinds and hard CC, the only attunement that’s really lacking imo would be fire, ESPECIALLY the fire traitline, it needs -something- and poison may just be that thing to give fire traits that edge, remember poison hurts healing and makes the sustained damage of fire more effective in that regard.

Ok, as for realism in this magic and sword video game …
1. Poison is mostly a liquid. (Water)
2. Fire is how most destroy poisons.

I can’t remember the last time someone put fire in someones cornflakes to poison them to death.

Now that ‘realism’ is out of the way …
Condi removal is with spec.
Direct heals are worthless without a lot invested into healing power and a giant hole in damage output for everyone else.

Elementalists are very powerful with poison. I run reaper of grenth occasionally on my ele in WvW and poison really makes other classes much easier to fight. The chill lets me stay on them alot easier too but you can get a idea of how strong poison would be on a Ele even though I am not specced condition damage. Poison is one of the strongest conditions in the game because of the heal debuff.

Adastra has a point with condition spamming on passives though that is what burning precision is but nobody takes it cause burning uptime isn’t really a problem. I am not sure how I feel about it I would like a bit more access to chill possibly as a control ability and not damaging conditions.

Arcane precision could use a buff cause it is pretty meh currently.

I think condition builds will see a lot more popularity for elementalists when they do their rune fixes and it would be something you would have to really do rune wise.

If you look at the 10 december guardian discussion Jon Peters said that they don’t want to open up guardian condition builds by traits or anything and that they would do it more through better runes choices for guardians that want to do that. I have a feeling that is how they look at elementalist also though we do have better conditions than guards.

Taldren.7523:

Durzlla.6295:

Taldren.7523:

To be honest, I am not sold on trying to shoehorn elementalist into being a condition class. That said, if it were to happen … I would say Poison fits better in the Water line.

If there was a condition ELE you would want one condition type per attunement so you never locked yourself out of your damage output.

Here are the holes that needed to be filled (with Poison included):
Control / Damage / Boon
Fire: (( )) / Burning / Might
Earth: Cripple / Bleed / Protection
Water: Chill / ((Poison)) / Regeneration
Air: Weakness / (( )) / Swiftness

Water also has direct heals, condition removal, and more importantly, vulnerability, poison also just doesn’t make sense in a realistic element perspective either, where poison in fire would, smoke suffocates, volcanic smoke can be poisonous, thus it makes sense for fire to get access to poison and not water.

also, air has blinds and hard CC, the only attunement that’s really lacking imo would be fire, ESPECIALLY the fire traitline, it needs -something- and poison may just be that thing to give fire traits that edge, remember poison hurts healing and makes the sustained damage of fire more effective in that regard.

Ok, as for realism in this magic and sword video game …
1. Poison is mostly a liquid. (Water)
2. Fire is how most destroy poisons.

I can’t remember the last time someone put fire in someones cornflakes to poison them to death.

Now that ‘realism’ is out of the way …
Condi removal is with spec.
Direct heals are worthless without a lot invested into healing power and a giant hole in damage output for everyone else.

Poison is not purely a liquid, and we are specifically talking about toxic fumes, which are extremely common in Volcanos, and are certainly not a liquid… seeing as how, you know it’s a GAS. Poisonous gases are a bit more dangerous than your silly little water poisons, that’s sorta why they’re outlawed in war and the such… Not to mention that fire burns up oxygen making breathing difficult, not to mention there’s something called smoke poisoning, which is caused from FIRE.

Also, Condi removal is NOT with spec, There’s Cleansing Wave, and Healing Rain, both of which cleanse condis without any traits, and direct healing is more of a for your self thing, and it does make quite a bit of difference, especially since they also deal damage (granted fairly minor), but nonetheless they have it, and it’s a pretty big part of the water attunement as a whole.

“In the context of biology, poisons are substances that cause disturbances to organisms, usually by chemical reaction or other activity on the molecular scale, when a sufficient quantity is absorbed by an organism.”

A poison can exist in any state of matter, and in other forms as well – radiation poisoning is the result of damage done to your cells by radiation.

People, please do not argue about a topic you are not well versed in. It’s not even that hard, just search “poison” and you’ll probably find solid info on the first page that comes up.

I think the game needs less condition spam, not more…

Chaosky.5276:

“In the context of biology, poisons are substances that cause disturbances to organisms, usually by chemical reaction or other activity on the molecular scale, when a sufficient quantity is absorbed by an organism.”

A poison can exist in any state of matter, and in other forms as well – radiation poisoning is the result of damage done to your cells by radiation.

People, please do not argue about a topic you are not well versed in. It’s not even that hard, just search “poison” and you’ll probably find solid info on the first page that comes up.

Basically this arguing about realism on a subject that doesn’t go against the laws of physics in a game where we shoot fire at eachother out of our hands is alittle unnecessary.

This is realistic to those who are unaware, breathing in to much fumes is toxic and depending on what type of fire it is it can be even more toxic, thus producing toxic fumes which u dont want to inhale even the slightest amount.

Now that that’s out of the way the reason i want this trait in fire is because fire is basically about conditions. It’s the traitline we get condition duration increased. Nobody ever uses it so if we were to put a poison proc trait in the fire traitline than we would see people coming up with all sorts of builds that involve them investing enough in fire to obtain the poison for various amounts of ideas for new builds. That’s the whole point of this. To add diversity to the elementalist profession because we are not seeing that anywhere.

Taldren.7523:

To be honest, I am not sold on trying to shoehorn elementalist into being a condition class. That said, if it were to happen … I would say Poison fits better in the Water line.

If there was a condition ELE you would want one condition type per attunement so you never locked yourself out of your damage output.

Here are the holes that needed to be filled (with Poison included):
Control / Damage / Boon
Fire: (( )) / Burning / Might
Earth: Cripple / Bleed / Protection
Water: Chill / ((Poison)) / Regeneration
Air: Weakness / (( )) / Swiftness

Actually, I’ve been figuring for a while that there should be a Master tier trait that causes Chill to deal damage, similar to how Necros have one that enables Fear to deal damage. It’d work for an Ele, and make it so, if you trait right, you could use that as well as Poison on Burn to make an Ele a viable condition user. It makes it so that an Ele at its base is a jack of all trades, but when traited/geared properly, can focus more on one area at the detriment of others.

Kamui.3150:

Taldren.7523:

To be honest, I am not sold on trying to shoehorn elementalist into being a condition class. That said, if it were to happen … I would say Poison fits better in the Water line.

If there was a condition ELE you would want one condition type per attunement so you never locked yourself out of your damage output.

Here are the holes that needed to be filled (with Poison included):
Control / Damage / Boon
Fire: (( )) / Burning / Might
Earth: Cripple / Bleed / Protection
Water: Chill / ((Poison)) / Regeneration
Air: Weakness / (( )) / Swiftness

Actually, I’ve been figuring for a while that there should be a Master tier trait that causes Chill to deal damage, similar to how Necros have one that enables Fear to deal damage. It’d work for an Ele, and make it so, if you trait right, you could use that as well as Poison on Burn to make an Ele a viable condition user. It makes it so that an Ele at its base is a jack of all trades, but when traited/geared properly, can focus more on one area at the detriment of others.

I was just talking about that with my friend lol, make a grandmaster water trait called Frost Bite that made chill deal damage.

Wow that frost bite idea actually sounds really really cool I can’t lie

Durzlla.6295:

Kamui.3150:

Taldren.7523:

To be honest, I am not sold on trying to shoehorn elementalist into being a condition class. That said, if it were to happen … I would say Poison fits better in the Water line.

If there was a condition ELE you would want one condition type per attunement so you never locked yourself out of your damage output.

Here are the holes that needed to be filled (with Poison included):
Control / Damage / Boon
Fire: (( )) / Burning / Might
Earth: Cripple / Bleed / Protection
Water: Chill / ((Poison)) / Regeneration
Air: Weakness / (( )) / Swiftness

Actually, I’ve been figuring for a while that there should be a Master tier trait that causes Chill to deal damage, similar to how Necros have one that enables Fear to deal damage. It’d work for an Ele, and make it so, if you trait right, you could use that as well as Poison on Burn to make an Ele a viable condition user. It makes it so that an Ele at its base is a jack of all trades, but when traited/geared properly, can focus more on one area at the detriment of others.

I was just talking about that with my friend lol, make a grandmaster water trait called Frost Bite that made chill deal damage.

I wouldn’t mind this, it would make taking traits such as soothing wave alittle bit worth while.

The problem with the frost idea though is that our chill durations are very short lived but on very long cooldowns. The damage would need to be substantial.

Also it doesn’t fix the problem that ele doesn’t have enough conditions. Our conditions are easily cleansed repeatedly because we don’t have access to alot of them. Maybe if chilling your enemy caused a whole new condition to appear called frostbite, that way it applies 2 conditions at once that need to be cleansed, wouldnt be such a problem but i do believe eles need poison for its heal reduction, even though sigil of doom is typically enough for one fight, we are very reliant on it if we want a condition build.

Senjun.8149:

Durzlla.6295:

Kamui.3150:

Taldren.7523:

To be honest, I am not sold on trying to shoehorn elementalist into being a condition class. That said, if it were to happen … I would say Poison fits better in the Water line.

If there was a condition ELE you would want one condition type per attunement so you never locked yourself out of your damage output.

Here are the holes that needed to be filled (with Poison included):
Control / Damage / Boon
Fire: (( )) / Burning / Might
Earth: Cripple / Bleed / Protection
Water: Chill / ((Poison)) / Regeneration
Air: Weakness / (( )) / Swiftness

Actually, I’ve been figuring for a while that there should be a Master tier trait that causes Chill to deal damage, similar to how Necros have one that enables Fear to deal damage. It’d work for an Ele, and make it so, if you trait right, you could use that as well as Poison on Burn to make an Ele a viable condition user. It makes it so that an Ele at its base is a jack of all trades, but when traited/geared properly, can focus more on one area at the detriment of others.

I was just talking about that with my friend lol, make a grandmaster water trait called Frost Bite that made chill deal damage.

I wouldn’t mind this, it would make taking traits such as soothing wave alittle bit worth while.

The problem with the frost idea though is that our chill durations are very short lived but on very long cooldowns. The damage would need to be substantial.

Also it doesn’t fix the problem that ele doesn’t have enough conditions. Our conditions are easily cleansed repeatedly because we don’t have access to alot of them. Maybe if chilling your enemy caused a whole new condition to appear called frostbite, that way it applies 2 conditions at once that need to be cleansed, wouldnt be such a problem but i do believe eles need poison for its heal reduction, even though sigil of doom is typically enough for one fight, we are very reliant on it if we want a condition build.

Our issue isn’t a lack of conditions, but a lack of damaging conditions, using the staff I’ve got access to vuln, chill, bleeding, burning, weakness, and blind, and immobile that’s a vast majority of the conditions in the game, could pretty easily add to that, not to mention with frost bite you could just take the glyph that makes all your spells have a 25% chance to apply chill…

“The problem with the frost idea though is that our chill durations are very short lived but on very long cooldowns. The damage would need to be substantial.”

No, our 4-5 skills and the bulk of our utilities are on very long cooldowns. I’ve long said that they seriously need to lower the CDs on lots of the Ele skills to make them more usable. They could also look at Chill’s duration on several skills, but yeah, CD reduction is something that really needs to happen.

Durzlla.6295:

Senjun.8149:

Durzlla.6295:

Kamui.3150:

Taldren.7523:

To be honest, I am not sold on trying to shoehorn elementalist into being a condition class. That said, if it were to happen … I would say Poison fits better in the Water line.

If there was a condition ELE you would want one condition type per attunement so you never locked yourself out of your damage output.

Here are the holes that needed to be filled (with Poison included):
Control / Damage / Boon
Fire: (( )) / Burning / Might
Earth: Cripple / Bleed / Protection
Water: Chill / ((Poison)) / Regeneration
Air: Weakness / (( )) / Swiftness

Actually, I’ve been figuring for a while that there should be a Master tier trait that causes Chill to deal damage, similar to how Necros have one that enables Fear to deal damage. It’d work for an Ele, and make it so, if you trait right, you could use that as well as Poison on Burn to make an Ele a viable condition user. It makes it so that an Ele at its base is a jack of all trades, but when traited/geared properly, can focus more on one area at the detriment of others.

I was just talking about that with my friend lol, make a grandmaster water trait called Frost Bite that made chill deal damage.

I wouldn’t mind this, it would make taking traits such as soothing wave alittle bit worth while.

The problem with the frost idea though is that our chill durations are very short lived but on very long cooldowns. The damage would need to be substantial.

Also it doesn’t fix the problem that ele doesn’t have enough conditions. Our conditions are easily cleansed repeatedly because we don’t have access to alot of them. Maybe if chilling your enemy caused a whole new condition to appear called frostbite, that way it applies 2 conditions at once that need to be cleansed, wouldnt be such a problem but i do believe eles need poison for its heal reduction, even though sigil of doom is typically enough for one fight, we are very reliant on it if we want a condition build.

Our issue isn’t a lack of conditions, but a lack of damaging conditions, using the staff I’ve got access to vuln, chill, bleeding, burning, weakness, and blind, and immobile that’s a vast majority of the conditions in the game, could pretty easily add to that, not to mention with frost bite you could just take the glyph that makes all your spells have a 25% chance to apply chill…

A condi ele using staff is far less effective than a power ele using staff i don’t even want to go there. Staff has access to a nice amount of condis but you’re far more useful being a power ele or a heal ele because the condis are typical caused by aoe, in roam/duel situations it is unviable, where as both dd and scepter offer quick more convienient condition applications but again we lack what other classes have.

They have the bulk of their conditions clustered into 1 weapon set because they don’t switch attunes like us obviously. engis, mesmers and necros both have more conditions to apply than us, their conditions are on far shorter cooldowns than ours. Their conditions typically last longer than ours, but i think the only one we got better than everyone else is burning. Which is insignificant because burning alone is to easily cleansed.

You can argue our chills and cripples and vulnerability applications (shatterstone really?) will protect our burns and shortlived bleeds but they will not because they are on long cooldowns with shortlived durations and not only that but most of the times aren’t easy to apply.

As an ele i don’t expect most people to run condition builds very often because plain and simply the other classes are superior to us and the most important condition we lack is poison. Yes you can use doom but everyone else who can effectively run condi on a competetive scale has it on standby with cooldowns, even condi thieves. So it’s understandable alot of people here think its easy as pie till you actually break out that condi gear and try it yourselves. Like i am and have been for a while now and let me tell you it is lackluster compared to what else the ele is capable of and compared to what other people are capable of.