Guild Wars 2

katniss.6735:

Does sPVP damage really matter? Try using 30/30 in WvW. You’ll be naked in no time from all the deaths. The guy who mentioned thieves, 25k is less than what a thief does with less build-up involved. Especially vs glass cannons. Thieves are completely spoiled. Tired of hearing them defend the class, really.

Thieves might do less damage HOWEVER – they need less skills and have SO many back up options that you cant compare hem plus they have near constant stealth (thanks to a silly bug that STILL hasnt been fixed)

However, playing a glass-cannon Elementalist like the video I linked is a matter of build, and then hitting a succession of abilities one after another for massive, rapid burst. It’s essentially the same as Thief.

you linked a video of WvW play…
I’d like to see this mythical Burning Speed/Ring/FireGrab (target likely not burning, does 50% dmg) combo that does 20k damage in sPvP…
the combo linked by the OP DOES do 20k+ dmg, but uses two 45s cooldown weapon skills and all three utility skills to pull it off. They’re also toast after doing this.

Bsquared.3421:

However, playing a glass-cannon Elementalist like the video I linked is a matter of build, and then hitting a succession of abilities one after another for massive, rapid burst. It’s essentially the same as Thief.

you linked a video of WvW play…
I’d like to see this mythical Burning Speed/Ring/FireGrab (target likely not burning, does 50% dmg) combo that does 20k damage in sPvP…
the combo linked by the OP DOES do 20k+ dmg, but uses two 45s cooldown weapon skills and all three utility skills to pull it off. They’re also toast after doing this.

True, but Ele’s can escape easy with ride the lighting, and switching to air for 33% boost, and if your Arcana is up 15% movement with daggers. it’s really usually for
Running Supply in WvW and Singling Targets outs. If any D/D ele messages me in game i’d like to see you’re setup compared to mine. Thanks!

Lmfao Dude Give Up.5086:

True, but Ele’s can escape easy with ride the lighting, and switching to air for 33% boost, and if your Arcana is up 15% movement with daggers. it’s really usually for
Running Supply in WvW and Singling Targets outs. If any D/D ele messages me in game i’d like to see you’re setup compared to mine. Thanks!

I run a Air Crit Damage build (10/30/30/0/0) My build concentrates on high crit chance for chance at Burning, Vul and Chill on targets as well as Might for me i have around 56% chance to crit without any boons – i use Shocking Aura and my crit chance hits like 76% roughly

little does anyone know those speed boost traits we have dnt even work last time i checked so >.> completely kitten pointless >.>

The only time i can really GET AWAY is RTL then burning speed right after thats just about all i can do if thier still chasing me switch to water for frost aura IF THEY STILL CHASING and its like 5 of them yea im done for and hope that they give up pursuit. cuz i gotta wait for RTL to come off cooldown >.>

Bsquared.3421:

However, playing a glass-cannon Elementalist like the video I linked is a matter of build, and then hitting a succession of abilities one after another for massive, rapid burst. It’s essentially the same as Thief.

you linked a video of WvW play…
I’d like to see this mythical Burning Speed/Ring/FireGrab (target likely not burning, does 50% dmg) combo that does 20k damage in sPvP…

21k damage using Burning Speed/Ring/FireGrab in sPvP:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTyehv-2uEw

You’re welcome.

I run a Air Crit Damage build (10/30/30/0/0) My build concentrates on high crit chance for chance at Burning, Vul and Chill on targets as well as Might for me i have around 56% chance to crit without any boons – i use Shocking Aura and my crit chance hits like 76% roughly
[/quote]

What runes are you using for your gear?

Wilhelmryan.9203:

Will these erase all QQ’s about bs thieves??

No because people will run this glass build and get destroyed by said thieves. I like aura D/D builds better with good toughness to take on any class but this looks like fun to tool around with in hot join.

katniss.6735:

Does sPVP damage really matter? Try using 30/30 in WvW. You’ll be naked in no time from all the deaths. The guy who mentioned thieves, 25k is less than what a thief does with less build-up involved. Especially vs glass cannons. Thieves are completely spoiled. Tired of hearing them defend the class, really.

You obviously haven’t played a Thief. You should give it a try sometime.

Here’s what you’ll experience. In sPvP hotjoin, you’ll be able to absolutely wreck a good portion of the population. You have craze burst damage, and they don’t know how to deal with you yet. After all, this is where you find people who are brand new to PvP.

However, you’ll run into some people that are different. These people survive your burst, and then all of the sudden you’re either dead or running for your life. You can find one person and attack them over and over throughout a match, but you never get a kill off. They avoid your burst, and with that gone your only option is to flee. Even then, your build has no stun breaks or condition removal, and they can lock you down and catch you pretty easily.

If you start running tournaments, you’ll suddenly find that these players make up the majority of the population. Sure, you’ll get a couple kills on bad players, people who weren’t paying attention, or people who were partially dead/out of cooldowns when you attacked. However, you’ll spend large parts of fights attacking and then immediately running away when you fail to get a kill.

You’ll start realizing that playing a pure glass cannon simply isn’t viable against competent players. You’ll start tweaking your build a little bit. You still want high damage, but maybe you sacrifice some burst for the ability to break stuns or remove conditions. Maybe you want some control or utility, maybe you want more mobility. You keep tweaking and changing your build until suddenly, you’re not a glass cannon. You may not be able to down a noob in three seconds, but you have an actual balanced build that can handle skillful enemies.

…

I’m defending thief class because that build is only effective among low-skill players. Among reasonably competent players, BS burst is worthless. It’s incredibly easy to counter (shocking aura: BS countered). Likewise, every class can pull off that kind of burst. Warriors can get massive (10k-15k hits) with killshot every 10s from 1,200 range. Necros can well-bomb for AoE carnage. Elementalists can do 12k damage each to five targets on a 12-15s cooldown.

The thing people seem to have a problem with is stealth. I’ll agree that stealth rendering can be bad in WvW, but that is no longer a thing in sPvP. Even still, I do not understand the problem with it. Stealth is our only survival tool. We cannot give ourselves protection. We have no self-healing (other than #6) unless heavily into defense. We have extremely poor condition removal. We have virtually no hard controls. We have low armor and low health. The only way a Thief survives is by not taking hits, and we do that with stealth and dodging.

Just like every other defensive tactic, stealth can be countered. I do really well against Thieves both on my thief and on my D/D elementalist. Hell, with an elementalist it’s almost easy. You have so many AoEs that it should never really be hard to kill someone who’s in stealth. I love chilling thieves and then kiting them around while they burn. Magnetic Grasp and Earthquake are fantastic anti-thief skills.

Lordryux.9785:

little does anyone know those speed boost traits we have dnt even work last time i checked so >.> completely kitten pointless >.>

The only time i can really GET AWAY is RTL then burning speed right after thats just about all i can do if thier still chasing me switch to water for frost aura IF THEY STILL CHASING and its like 5 of them yea im done for and hope that they give up pursuit. cuz i gotta wait for RTL to come off cooldown >.>

Yeah true, before i switch to burning speed i use glyph for 10 seconds 33% boost, then switch over. sometimes it works, unless the pursuers are just using their own boost, and you gotta hope RTL hurrys up.

Lmfao Dude Give Up.5086:

What runes are you using for your gear?

Im getting the Eagle ones, they are how ever VERY expensive on my server and i cant make them yet

That will add 175Pres, 8% added critical damage and if i go all 6 5% more damage to targets below 50% or could take the Divinity rune for the 6th slot for 10+ to each stat as well as another 2% extra critical damage

Im getting the Eagle ones, they are how ever VERY expensive on my server and i cant make them yet

That will add 175Pres, 8% added critical damage and if i go all 6 5% more damage to targets below 50% or could take the Divinity rune for the 6th slot for 10+ to each stat as well as another 2% extra critical damage [/quote]

Im running full Superior Runes of Air, Bloodlust on 1 dagger and Superior Sigil of intelligence <— Really amazing for everyone that loves dodges, and will keep you in a fight against a thief if used correctly.
If any of you eles need anything im always In Game just send me a message to discuss things.

mouse.1689:

Bsquared.3421:

However, playing a glass-cannon Elementalist like the video I linked is a matter of build, and then hitting a succession of abilities one after another for massive, rapid burst. It’s essentially the same as Thief.

you linked a video of WvW play…
I’d like to see this mythical Burning Speed/Ring/FireGrab (target likely not burning, does 50% dmg) combo that does 20k damage in sPvP…

21k damage using Burning Speed/Ring/FireGrab in sPvP:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTyehv-2uEw

You’re welcome.

That wasn’t just bs/ring/grab. The 4k hit was from arcane shield blowing up. He could hit 25k if wave were off of cool down…

And we was fortunate that his target crossed the ring to start burning. Else the fire grab would have hit for 5k not 9. He may also have had 3 might from the shield blowing up, amping the dmg of grab even more.

I’m not trying to say ele’s can’t pump out serious dmg, cause we can, but 20k in only 3 hits doesn’t happen very often outside some extreme circumstances (e.g., in wvw with up leveled folks, etc.).

That wasn’t just bs/ring/grab. The 4k hit was from arcane shield blowing up. He could hit 25k if wave were off of cool down…

And we was fortunate that his target crossed the ring to start burning. Else the fire grab would have hit for 5k not 9. He may also have had 3 might from the shield blowing up, amping the dmg of grab even more.

I’m not trying to say ele’s can’t pump out serious dmg, cause we can, but 20k in only 3 hits doesn’t happen very often outside some extreme circumstances (e.g., in wvw with up leveled folks, etc.).

[/quote]

Agree completely with you ^

Bsquared.3421:

That wasn’t just bs/ring/grab. The 4k hit was from arcane shield blowing up. He could hit 25k if wave were off of cool down…

And we was fortunate that his target crossed the ring to start burning. Else the fire grab would have hit for 5k not 9. He may also have had 3 might from the shield blowing up, amping the dmg of grab even more.

I’m not trying to say ele’s can’t pump out serious dmg, cause we can, but 20k in only 3 hits doesn’t happen very often outside some extreme circumstances (e.g., in wvw with up leveled folks, etc.).

Personally i think this kind of build and rotation will only work against AFK new players, requires alot of RNG with crits and everything else, requires them to play it the certain way means they need players to go through the fire field and such

meh imo i really dnt think thiefs are OP if anything they are kind of forced to eithier play full glass cannon or full condition ive really have yet to see a full hybrid of the sort lol and i do have a thief its low lvled 69 but still i spvp with it often but glass cannon thief meets a bunker ele thier pretty much done for unless that certain bunker ele has no idea wat he is doing x.x

So in all honestly i think of the 2 kind of the same we are forced to go into a certain build cuz eithier or some traits just dnt add up with the build ur trying to make or they are fairly underpowered. so u basically gotta go with the build that has the best results. THATS just my 2 CENTS xD

Added another video.

Is it just me or does everyone assume Eles only use D/D? -.-

Bsquared.3421:

mouse.1689:

Bsquared.3421:

However, playing a glass-cannon Elementalist like the video I linked is a matter of build, and then hitting a succession of abilities one after another for massive, rapid burst. It’s essentially the same as Thief.

you linked a video of WvW play…
I’d like to see this mythical Burning Speed/Ring/FireGrab (target likely not burning, does 50% dmg) combo that does 20k damage in sPvP…

21k damage using Burning Speed/Ring/FireGrab in sPvP:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTyehv-2uEw

You’re welcome.

That wasn’t just bs/ring/grab. The 4k hit was from arcane shield blowing up. He could hit 25k if wave were off of cool down…

And we was fortunate that his target crossed the ring to start burning. Else the fire grab would have hit for 5k not 9. He may also have had 3 might from the shield blowing up, amping the dmg of grab even more.

I’m not trying to say ele’s can’t pump out serious dmg, cause we can, but 20k in only 3 hits doesn’t happen very often outside some extreme circumstances (e.g., in wvw with up leveled folks, etc.).

I’ll grant you the Arcane Shield, but the RoF wasn’t luck. He dropped it right on the guy, which isn’t at all hard to do once you get used to it. Even failing that, it’s not hard to channel Drake’s Breath for a second to get the burning you need for Fire Grab.

Just to be clear, I posted the link because you asked for an Ele doing 20k damage using those 3 abilities in sPvP, and that Ele is doing almost exactly that.

I am not at all suggesting that this is proof that Ele damage is OP, because pure glass cannon Ele’s are pretty much awful for anything other than pretending you’re a Thief who can’t stealth for a few games before going back to a real build.

At the same time, I think people underestimate how much burst a glass cannon Ele can actually put out, hence the video link. If that Ele were in WvW, he’d have about 20% more crit damage and the numbers would have been much higher than they were.

25k potential damage to afkers isn’t worth the trade-off of being a useless piece of tissue after spending all your cooldowns.

Curring.9752:

Is it just me or does everyone assume Eles only use D/D? -.-

It’s the only weapon set that wasn’t nerfed into oblivion, and unlike S/D you can actually land your damage skills without wasting all your CCs.

Edit: fixed typo

TwoBit.5903:

25k potential damage to afkers isn’t worth the trade-off of being a useless piece of tissue after spending all your cooldowns.

Curring.9752:

Is it just me or does everyone assume Eles only use D/D? -.-

It’s the only weapon set that was nerfed into oblivion, and unlike S/D you can actually land your damage skills without wasting all your CCs.

Correction- you mean the only set which wasn’t nerfed into oblivion am I right?
If so yes I agree with you, d/d is the only set which doesn’t force you into using signets to actually land your skills.

Scepter focus outside dragon’s tooth and phoenix, lack strong heavy hit skills, therefore people have tried to use scepter as glass cannon weapon, trying to make the most out of those signet = “1 hit for 1 kill or I die”, outside glass cannon no sane ele would take scepter for sustained dmg

Wow, thanks OP. Now ele’s are being compared unfairly to thiefs.

This sure won’t draw irrational conclusions about this being a viable build. /rollseyes

This build requires the following:

- Full Glass Cannon = sneeze in this ele’s direction and watch him eat dirt.
- Blow ALL Utility Skills = Utility skills are our MAIN source of escape! That leaves us with one option = Ride the Lightning. And RTL is EASY to counter! Immbolize Ele = RTL is useless.
- Opponent has to be an idiot by not using any stun breakers, cc, or dodging of his own.

Elementalist’s power shouldn’t even be mentioned in the same vacinity as Thief’s power.

DivineBeing.2086:

Wow, thanks OP. Now ele’s are being compared unfairly to thiefs.

This sure won’t draw irrational conclusions about this being a viable build. /rollseyes

This build requires the following:

- Full Glass Cannon = sneeze in this ele’s direction and watch him eat dirt.
- Blow ALL Utility Skills = Utility skills are our MAIN source of escape! That leaves us with one option = Ride the Lightning. And RTL is EASY to counter! Immbolize Ele = RTL is useless.
- Opponent has to be an idiot by not using any stun breakers, cc, or dodging of his own.

Elementalist’s power shouldn’t even be mentioned in the same vacinity as Thief’s power.

Have you played a thief? Everything you’re saying about glass cannon elementalist is true for the glass cannon instagib thief as well. The instagib thief that everyone QQs about requires two utility skills (24-30s and 60s cooldowns), a profession skill (45s cooldown), and an elite (45s cooldown) to pull off. That thief will also eat dirt if you can sneeze in their direction.

Stealth is just as easy to counter as RTL. If they want to stealth, they either have to hit you with a melee attack or they have a healing skill with a 1s cast time. Both have distinct animations, making them easy to dodge or interrupt (respectively). Additionally, stuns/dazes will prevent the thief from stealthing, and immobilize/chill prevents them from moving while stealthed. If you hit them with Signet of Earth, you immobilize them for their entire stealth. This leaves you free to smash them (they’re still there, even if you can’t see them) and it keeps them from escaping. The difference between stealth and RTL is that not as many players have figured out how to counter stealth. It can definitely be done, you just have to adapt your playstyle to the Thief.

Your opponent has to be an idiot to die to thief burst as well. One dodge/evasion/invuln/block/whatever will negate the entire burst. This leaves the thief with two utilities, their profession skill, and their elite wasted, and no initiative left (equivalent to having all your weapon skills on cooldown). At that point, the fight is tipped heavily in your favor. All it takes is one or two controls of any form to finish them. Hell, a good player with a non-glass build should be able to take a decent amount of their burst, heal it back, and crush them.

Also, notice that the damage done by this build is AoE. The equivalent thief burst is single-target. And you don’t need utility skills or long cooldowns to do a truckload of burst. In that video, I see:

• Burning Speed: 5,019
• Ring of Fire: 3,261
• Arcane Shield: 4,145
• Fire Grab: 9,221

So, that’s 8,280 damage, 5-target-AoE, using skills that have a 12s-15s cooldown (depending on build). That is nearly exactly the same damage as Backstab does without any utility skills. A Thief can Backstab every 4s at the most.

So, if let’s ignore utility skills for a moment. The thief and the elementalist can do roughly the same burst. The thief can do it to a single target every 4-5s. The elementalist can do it to up to five targets every 12-15s. That seems balanced.

We can use our other skills to get a 15% power boost for a few attacks (30s CD), a stun while we burst you (45s CD), an extra 4-5k hit (45s CD), and Haste (60s CD). You can use your other skills to get guaranteed crits for a few attacks (45s CD), an immobilize while you burst (30s CD), an extra 4-5k hit (20s CD), or an extra 6k+ AoE hit (30s CD). You also get Fire Grab if we’re using long-cooldown skills, which can easily push 8k (glass cannon).

That seems comparable to me. I just established that we get similar levels of burst. You can’t burst as often, but you can burst AoE. You can also burn cooldowns for a bigger burst than Thief will ever manage.

Thief gets stealth to escape, which is akin to an instant win escape against bad players but is countered by good players. Elementalist gets RTL which is a strong escape against bad players but countered by moderate and good players. You also get self-healing outside of #6 and control skills, which thieves lack.

To me, that seems different but acceptably equal.

Oh, and for the record:

DivineBeing.2086:

…draw irrational conclusions about this being a viable build…

In my eyes, glass cannon is never a viable build. It’s great for pugstomping, but against a competent player it should rarely (if ever) work. Glass cannon just does not have the tools that a successful, balanced build does.

Arheundel.6451:

TwoBit.5903:

25k potential damage to afkers isn’t worth the trade-off of being a useless piece of tissue after spending all your cooldowns.

Curring.9752:

Is it just me or does everyone assume Eles only use D/D? -.-

It’s the only weapon set that was nerfed into oblivion, and unlike S/D you can actually land your damage skills without wasting all your CCs.

Correction- you mean the only set which wasn’t nerfed into oblivion am I right?
If so yes I agree with you, d/d is the only set which doesn’t force you into using signets to actually land your skills.

Scepter focus outside dragon’s tooth and phoenix, lack strong heavy hit skills, therefore people have tried to use scepter as glass cannon weapon, trying to make the most out of those signet = “1 hit for 1 kill or I die”, outside glass cannon no sane ele would take scepter for sustained dmg

The advantage of scepter is really just the range on attacks, you dont have to run up into melee range (and melt) like with dagger. Air actually is pretty good for a quick unload and leave, fire is good if you find someone thats not moving too fast (either due to channel or cc, and some people are just so caught up they ignore), healing in water is better than dagger, and earth is.. well earth, best autoattack but rather use the offhand dagger’s offense.

For the most part however when its a lot of ranged I just pull out staff so dunno, teetering on going back to D/D.

Arheundel.6451:

TwoBit.5903:

25k potential damage to afkers isn’t worth the trade-off of being a useless piece of tissue after spending all your cooldowns.

Curring.9752:

Is it just me or does everyone assume Eles only use D/D? -.-

It’s the only weapon set that was nerfed into oblivion, and unlike S/D you can actually land your damage skills without wasting all your CCs.

Correction- you mean the only set which wasn’t nerfed into oblivion am I right?
If so yes I agree with you, d/d is the only set which doesn’t force you into using signets to actually land your skills.

Scepter focus outside dragon’s tooth and phoenix, lack strong heavy hit skills, therefore people have tried to use scepter as glass cannon weapon, trying to make the most out of those signet = “1 hit for 1 kill or I die”, outside glass cannon no sane ele would take scepter for sustained dmg

Yeah that was a typo. Unlike DT, the Burning Speed + Ring of Fire combo is a skill shot that you can land consistently with practice even without the use of signets or Updraft. This potentially frees updraft to be used as an interrupt rather than an initiation tool and also makes you less dependent on Signet of Earth which honestly doesn’t do much for eles outside of its active ability.