Guild Wars 2

Is there any?

I heard that the only ele in the last vVv tournament ran a staff build, does anyone know which build was that?

There is no viable staff build in pvp. You will get destroyed in every 1on1.

cursE.1794:

There is no viable staff build in pvp. You will get destroyed in every 1on1.

What he means to say is that he doesn’t believe it’s possible. I believe it is, however it’s got less to do with builds and more with (relatively) huge amounts of practice and skill. But unlike other, more popular 1v1 builds, there’s no pre-paved path to glory yet, no premade builds that anyone can play regardless of skill level. And it is true that while staff can be played up to viable in 1v1, it’s at a disadvantage given the way the skills function. It’s much more potent in group fights.

However, what you really should be considering is this: apart from solo arenas, which parts of PvP are truly 1v1 and contribute anything meaningful to the total score? Because both sPvP and WvW favor players that fight together, not those that go off alone to satisfy their egos.

It’s not like I run around alone to satisfy my ego – lol – I just don’t see what staff has that makes it worth giving up my 1on1 capabilitys. Of course, after a lot of practice, you will be able to kill lowskilled players, but you will always lose against people that are equally skilled. Besides, have you ever heard someone saying “oh kitten they have a staff ele, kill that one first”.

cursE.1794:

It’s not like I run around alone to satisfy my ego – lol – I just don’t see what staff has that makes it worth giving up my 1on1 capabilitys.

For WvW that would be Meteor Shower, combo fields and long ranged AoE’s.

ThiBash.5634:

cursE.1794:

There is no viable staff build in pvp. You will get destroyed in every 1on1.

What he means to say is that he doesn’t believe it’s possible. I believe it is, however it’s got less to do with builds and more with (relatively) huge amounts of practice and skill. But unlike other, more popular 1v1 builds, there’s no pre-paved path to glory yet, no premade builds that anyone can play regardless of skill level. And it is true that while staff can be played up to viable in 1v1, it’s at a disadvantage given the way the skills function. It’s much more potent in group fights.

The reality is though in sPvP staff kills too slowly for roaming.

Damage you do is only significant in a team fight if you’re full zerker and in tpvp people WILL go for you if that’s the case, unlike hotjoin where they’d happily ignore you and eat 4k meteors.

Bunker ele on the other hand struggles to survive against necro/thief/spirit ranger for even 30 seconds let alone against 2 people whereas an engineer can easily bunker for 1 min 30 against 2 of anything.

With ele in PvP, it eventually becomes the opponent outplaying your attunement swaps/cooldowns rather than ele being able to outplay the opponent with attunes. The 20 skill versatility is a lie when half the skills are useless and you can only access what you need so often unlike warrior’s 5 second weapon swap between 10 good skills.

zencow.3651:

The reality is though in sPvP staff kills too slowly for roaming.

Damage you do is only significant in a team fight if you’re full zerker and in tpvp people WILL go for you if that’s the case, unlike hotjoin where they’d happily ignore you and eat 4k meteors.

Bunker ele on the other hand struggles to survive against necro/thief/spirit ranger for even 30 seconds let alone against 2 people whereas an engineer can easily bunker for 1 min 30 against 2 of anything.

The question was, as I understood it, more along the lines of “how can I make do while I get back to my team”, not “how can I solo everything with staff”.

Staff can be viable in the sense that you can put up a fight with it, but it’s far from optimal in 1v1 fights. I’m not disagreeing there. There’s a difference between viable and optimal after all.

ThiBash.5634:

The question was, as I understood it, more along the lines of “how can I make do while I get back to my team”, not “how can I solo everything with staff”.

Staff can be viable in the sense that you can put up a fight with it, but it’s far from optimal in 1v1 fights. I’m not disagreeing there. There’s a difference between viable and optimal after all.

The OP is an sPvP player so no.
2v1s are a common occuring in tPvP and if you can’t handle that as a bunker then I’d say that bunker isn’t viable if it couldn’t handle even one person.

I’m guessing there’s only 2 options in your view right? Either instakill burster or undefeatable bunker?

ThiBash.5634:

I’m guessing there’s only 2 options in your view right? Either instakill burster or undefeatable bunker?

That sums up quite well why many think the elementalist is broken in PvP. You just have to cut the “instakill” and the “undefeatable”.

But the question was viable, not optimal. There are plenty of teambuilds that can stand up to the optimal builds, and can win if the optimal build’s player makes a mistake.

I really don’t get what’s so hard to understand about the whole ‘viable’ bit. A teambuild that can hold up for a short while when caught alone…that’s certainly possible.

ThiBash.5634:

I’m guessing there’s only 2 options in your view right? Either instakill burster or undefeatable bunker?

There is no middle ground in tPvP. PVT or Valkyrie’s amulets are the balanced options but both are very lack-luster and the later is worse than Zerker’s Amulet against Condi.

zencow.3651:

There is no middle ground in tPvP. PVT or Valkyrie’s amulets are the balanced options but both are very lack-luster and the later is worse than Zerker’s Amulet against Condi.

So where does a party support role come in?

ThiBash.5634:

zencow.3651:

There is no middle ground in tPvP. PVT or Valkyrie’s amulets are the balanced options but both are very lack-luster and the later is worse than Zerker’s Amulet against Condi.

So where does a party support role come in?

Engineer’s Healing Turret/Ranger Healing Spring+ spirits/Guardian/Necro weakness spam+fears/Warrior stuns as an aside to their bunkeri-ness/easily melting other people with no risk to survivability-ness.

There’s just no need for a bad-at-everything puppet.

cursE.1794:

ThiBash.5634:

I’m guessing there’s only 2 options in your view right? Either instakill burster or undefeatable bunker?

That sums up quite well why many think the elementalist is broken in PvP. You just have to cut the “instakill” and the “undefeatable”.

The broken thing is other classes can ‘instakill’ without sending their survivability into the abyss.

zencow.3651:

Engineer’s Healing Turret/Ranger Healing Spring+ spirits/Guardian/Necro weakness spam+fears/Warrior stuns as an aside to their bunkeri-ness/easily melting other people with no risk to survivability-ness.

There’s just no need for a bad-at-everything puppet.

Apparently there was one team that could make good use of a staff ele though. I don’t mind you not seeing the usefulness of staff eles though. It just means Anet will pile up more and more buffs on a build I can already put to good use. :-)

sorrow.2364:

Is there any?

I heard that the only ele in the last vVv tournament ran a staff build, does anyone know which build was that?

Found it now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tArqWQXjaCU
http://www.gw2build.com/builds/simulator.php#1.1.7.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.9.11.21.24.1.1.8.0.0.0.0.0.0.33.0.0.50.55.56.65.68.71.0.0.10.30.30

Again just a usual bunker staff ele.

Viability is up to you to judge, but I vote ‘No’.
Put yourself on the other side of the fence, would you be willing to carry such an ele if it was someone else on the team?

Edit: Oh wait that’s way out dated, I read the year wrong. RIP blast finishers on every EA.

Again, there’s a difference between viable and optimal. The build you’ve posted is certainly viable…

ThiBash.5634:

Again, there’s a difference between viable and optimal. The build you’ve posted is certainly viable…

Yeah it’s totally viable if you lack ANY game sense. Build was viable before when ele had survivability up the butt and yet it was still dying from the necro and ranger. Now since then, ele has been nerfed all the way to hell and everything else has been buffed, and all ele’s received are slightly better fire skills, larger geyser and water blast and unsteady ground, definitely viable.

It only took me a whole thirty seconds to kill one of these bunker staff ele today with an unconventional zero spirit BM ranger build. Then I realised it only took so long ‘cause I forgot to swap out Shaman’s Amulet and Condi duration on instead of Clerics when using LB+Sword Horn. Basically he just died to the pet.

That’s tragic.

cursE.1794:

ThiBash.5634:

I’m guessing there’s only 2 options in your view right? Either instakill burster or undefeatable bunker?

That sums up quite well why many think the elementalist is broken in PvP. You just have to cut the “instakill” and the “undefeatable”.

Instakill burst? Undefeatable? Are we talking uplevel versus 80? Someone smart in this forum said that class viability is shown by the prominence of play. You do not have to over-think this. Less Ele hours played = less viability. Less staff played = less viability.

ImProVocateur.5189:

Someone smart in this forum said that class viability is shown by the prominence of play. You do not have to over-think this. Less Ele hours played = less viability. Less staff played = less viability.

By that logic, McDonalds sells the best food in the world because everyone goes there. And quantum mechanics is useless because only a small fraction of the world population fully understands it.

At the simplest measure, for each profession, give a 1 to 10 rating to these two:
- Potential Effectiveness
- Easiness to play

And add them up. And there you go. Higher score = more players play it.

zencow.3651:

At the simplest measure, for each profession, give a 1 to 10 rating to these two:
- Percieved effectiveness = (Potential Effectiveness + Rumored Effectiveness)
- Easiness to play

And add them up. And there you go. Higher score = more players play it.

Fixed it.

cursE.1794:

There is no viable staff build in pvp. You will get destroyed in every 1on1.

I LoL’d. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chICapoQF4E Ive been playing this guys build for the past week. And let me tell ya, 1v1 i rarely loose. Ive gone up to 3v1 and was able to out heal and endure until help arrived.

Pawnchee.3059:

cursE.1794:

There is no viable staff build in pvp. You will get destroyed in every 1on1.

I LoL’d. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chICapoQF4E Ive been playing this guys build for the past week. And let me tell ya, 1v1 i rarely loose. Ive gone up to 3v1 and was able to out heal and endure until help arrived.

I have to ask. What runes/amulet/jewel were you using with that build. I tried running it for a fee days but my condi dmg was so low I wasnt hurting anyone, and I was made of glass. Died when people just looked at me. And when you watch thr vid he has good condi dmg and quite tanky.

I think the ele in the video is using the settlers amulet + carrion jewel. No idea about the runes tho

Not boon duration runes, that much at least is clear. I’m watching the video in detail to see if anything special triggers that might help in identifying the runes. He could be using any set of condition damage runes though.

Edit: My best guess would be Rune of the Nightmare, because in the fight against the Engineer and the Thief, the Thief seems to run off for no reason. The runes would also fit his build being all conditiony. So if I had to guess, I’d say he’s using those.

Something about this build still doesnt add up. I just ran the build with settlers amulet w/ carrion. Theb tried both undead and nightmare runes.

Results were better but the level of damage was still nowhere close. In the video we see him condition down a warrior from full hp to dead with only burning and some 6 stacks of bleeding in s fee seconds. I cant get anything close to that to even tickle most enemies.

Also its still glassy. 14k hp and 3k toughness, but still get 1 shotted by theives and destroyed by warriors. Yet in the video we watch him tank a warrior with only magnetic aura and regen up. And his health never drops below 3/4.

So still not seeing how this works.

Zerker staff can deal serious damage in an on-point clash if people from both teams are busy fighting each other while he safely nukes at range. But a true zerker staff ele won’t be considered good/worth it if he can’t escape/survive a bad situation which is being spotted and targetted usually by thieves/mes. But with all the aoe CCs and an improved Burning Retreat and Unsteady Ground, it’s not impossible. Add to that the upcoming Tempest Defense buff.

Unfortunately, most people consider builds that can’t cap or prevent a cap, as useless builds. And all existing effective/viable builds for all the other classes are potent in 1v1s and can sustain by themselves pretty well. And those are the things that a zerker staff ele should not do – to stand in the middle of the fight on a point and facing 1v1s.

TLDR: staff ele still sucks in general.

Rendar.1809:

Something about this build still doesnt add up. I just ran the build with settlers amulet w/ carrion. Theb tried both undead and nightmare runes.

Results were better but the level of damage was still nowhere close. In the video we see him condition down a warrior from full hp to dead with only burning and some 6 stacks of bleeding in s fee seconds. I cant get anything close to that to even tickle most enemies.

Also its still glassy. 14k hp and 3k toughness, but still get 1 shotted by theives and destroyed by warriors. Yet in the video we watch him tank a warrior with only magnetic aura and regen up. And his health never drops below 3/4.

So still not seeing how this works.

The best I can make out of it is that he’s not just focusing on the conditions, he’s also hitting relatively solid with the rest of his attacks. Combined with his excellent positioning, he seems to constantly lure targets into his AoEs. Stuff like Ice Spike may seem weak, but it actually hits like a truck…provided you can actually hit something with it. As for the defense, he again makes excellent use of positioning. It seems like he’s always behind a target, making it impossible for them to attack him.

To me it seems the key to making this buildwork lies in how he moves and where…which he does pretty well. But to be honest, his targets seem a bit easy to fool too. Guess the ele’s rep works to his advantage.

Gallrvaghn.4921:

TLDR: staff ele still sucks in general.

Funny how you can make such a general statement in a thread that shows a player doing well with a staff in 1v1. It’s the staff weakest area, and you still have WvW and dungeons where it performs much better than in duels…I’m guessing you just don’t like it?

ThiBash.5634:

Gallrvaghn.4921:

TLDR: staff ele still sucks in general.

Funny how you can make such a general statement in a thread that shows a player doing well with a staff in 1v1. It’s the staff weakest area, and you still have WvW and dungeons where it performs much better than in duels…I’m guessing you just don’t like it?

I saw the vid and it was quite good bunkering and all. In WvW, I do agree that staff eles are a staple in an organized zerg primarily for their static field and as a water field bot. And to an extent, in general PVE/dungeons. However, if you read my post again, I was referring to power/crit based nuker staff ele which doesn’t perform well in conquest mode due to the requirement of standing inside a small circle and fighting head on which clearly isn’t how a zerker staff ele should be played to its full potential. Don’t get me wrong, I’m playing full zerker staff ele in SoloQ and it’s quite fun seeing bodies drop when I cast Meteor Shower from a safe range. It’s the kiting around a small circle that I just don’t like. But it’s just a matter of preference I suppose.

Gallrvaghn.4921:

However, if you read my post again, I was referring to power/crit based nuker staff ele which doesn’t perform well in conquest mode due to the requirement of standing inside a small circle and fighting head on which clearly isn’t how a zerker staff ele should be played to its full potential.

My apologies, I misunderstood.

ThiBash.5634:

Gallrvaghn.4921:

However, if you read my post again, I was referring to power/crit based nuker staff ele which doesn’t perform well in conquest mode due to the requirement of standing inside a small circle and fighting head on which clearly isn’t how a zerker staff ele should be played to its full potential.

My apologies, I misunderstood.

No worries.

I just would like zerker staff eles to experience a little limelight in tPVP because as it stands now, it’s just pure bunker/support builds or reroll a heavy class.

Gallrvaghn.4921:

I just would like zerker staff eles to experience a little limelight in tPVP because as it stands now, it’s just pure bunker/support builds or reroll a heavy class.

Agreed,‘some variety would be nice though the meta will always be the meta, and the meta is pretty much set in its ways when it comes to eles. Recently, I’ve been experimenting with a signet build for staff ele and I’ve found it to be pretty strong. The signet’s immobilize and chill compliment the staff’s plethora of cc rather well.

Fanky.2801:

I think the ele in the video is using the settlers amulet + carrion jewel. No idea about the runes tho

90% sure this is the build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEAQFAWhMmmbsR5gjEAEFm8SQhAHMKASRxM7A-ToAg2CuIaS1krJTTymsNNW4IC

He definitely has sigil of corruption, given that he has full stacks of corruption
He definitely has 20 in water, and the given trinkets given his health combo. He heals a condi on water-swap, and has lower CD on water attunement for sure.
He definitely has only 10 in earth, given he doesn’t proc the 15 point trait. That earth trait is lower signet CD.
He definitely has only 20 in arcana, given he only procs elemental attunement and has blasting staff.
The rest of the points are 20 fire given he does proc the 15-point trait on proc it seems. I would guess its the +5% damage to burning foes, and chance to proc burning on crit (given his amulet as well) to help cover bleeds.
The runes of the undead make most sense given his amulet, although it could be +condi duration runes.

BlackBeard.2873:

90% sure this is the build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEAQFAWhMmmbsR5gjEAEFm8SQhAHMKASRxM7A-ToAg2CuIaS1krJTTymsNNW4IC

He definitely has sigil of corruption, given that he has full stacks of corruption
He definitely has 20 in water, and the given trinkets given his health combo. He heals a condi on water-swap, and has lower CD on water attunement for sure.
He definitely has only 10 in earth, given he doesn’t proc the 15 point trait. That earth trait is lower signet CD.
He definitely has only 20 in arcana, given he only procs elemental attunement and has blasting staff.
The rest of the points are 20 fire given he does proc the 15-point trait on proc it seems. I would guess its the +5% damage to burning foes, and chance to proc burning on crit (given his amulet as well) to help cover bleeds.
The runes of the undead make most sense given his amulet, although it could be +condi duration runes.

He’s definitely 0/0/30/20/20 given that signets do not lose their passives and that earth skills have -20% recharge. Also, he shows traits at the end of 2nd video.

I tried using DD PvP ele (full offense build)
sucked balls
but then I switched to staff (with a conjure sidearm) and started killin people. it’s so much more versatile
what’s most hilarious is when bad thieves jump on me and then instantly explode

Earth 4 anyone? :P