Guild Wars 2

“Vigor: Decreased the endurance regeneration rate from 100% to 50%.”

That hurts elementalists disproportionately hard. Not excited about this.

I think I agree, especially since we can only have 2 sigils on our weapons. I really hope Sigil of Energy won’t become mandatory, because that would hurt the build diversity even more. I can’t say I’m happy about this, 50% is quite a lot when they are doing nothing about sigils like Air, Fire, Geo, Doom…

Big plus, this will hurt mostly elementalist! I hate this change!

To be fair vigor is nearly useless against fire and air sigils since they will just proc on anything. If they were to nerf them, vigor would become much stronger as active defense and dodging key skills would matter more.

I also don’t get the rationale for this change…. people dodging too much? Isn’t active dodging your opponents the big thing about this game’s combat mechanic?

Jaetara.4075:

Big plus, this will hurt mostly elementalist! I hate this change!

we all know that the biggest winner from this change is necro as he never had vigor to begin with jokes aside why do u think this will mostly hurt eles? we have invuln and dodging skills too

I like the changes to vigor and vulnerability. it makes vulnerability and weakness that much more valuable to have rather than just becoming cover condis. necros will obv gain the most from these changes.

Well vigor is a very powerful boon so you must make it hard to get or make it not last long or simply make the effect not as strong. Vigor atm is way too strong not to have it.

Maybe this way elementalists will not be able to dodge every single attack of their opponent using dodge roll and their insane evade skills. Elementalists have most access to invuln and lots of evade skills. You will be fine.

Kodama.6453:

Maybe this way elementalists will not be able to dodge every single attack of their opponent using dodge roll and their insane evade skills. Elementalists have most access to invuln and lots of evade skills. You will be fine.

You’re kidding right? Insane evade skills? Most invuln? Since when?

Elementalist is able to have 10s of invuln (earth focus 5, earth shield 5, mist form) and each weapon set does have at least 1 evade spell and some on conjured weapons.

Kodama.6453:

Elementalist is able to have 10s of invuln (earth focus 5, earth shield 5, mist form) and each weapon set does have at least 1 evade spell and some on conjured weapons.

Earthshield 5 lmfao.

Go look at the actual numbers compared to other professions at a similar stat level (mesmers/thieves/rangers). Elementalists have some of the worst invuln/evade uptime in the game.

Why do think they build cele in the pvp meta? If they had actual good active defense they’d be building zerker, not bunker. Do try to think these things through for a second.

Kodama.6453:

Elementalist is able to have 10s of invuln (earth focus 5, earth shield 5, mist form) and each weapon set does have at least 1 evade spell and some on conjured weapons.

First of all, Obsidian Flesh is 4 second, second of all no one freaking uses earth shield because it’s crap and third of all, you cannot do anything while in mistform. Then go look up distortion please.

Obsidian Flesh is 4 seconds I know that, that’s why I said 10s invuln (3s from mist form, 3 from earth shield and 4 from OF).

Cele gear is natural synergy with elementalist, which can do all things with one build (heal with water, condi with earth, direct damage with fire and crit/cc with air) and I fought against many elementalists literally perma-evading and found some builds in the internet which show the drastically stamina regen an elementalist can provide. ^^

And I just wanted to show elementalist has access to other defensive skills so vigor nerf will not hurt you that much as you think maybe.

Kodama.6453:

Obsidian Flesh is 4 seconds I know that, that’s why I said 10s invuln (3s from mist form, 3 from earth shield and 4 from OF).

Cele gear is natural synergy with elementalist, which can do all things with one build (heal with water, condi with earth, direct damage with fire and crit/cc with air) and I fought against many elementalists literally perma-evading and found some builds in the internet which show the drastically stamina regen an elementalist can provide. ^^

And I just wanted to show elementalist has access to other defensive skills so vigor nerf will not hurt you that much as you think maybe.

And I’m telling you that no one uses the skills you actually stated, so 4 sec od invuln.

Oh, have you thought about…Idk, maybe not everyone wants to play cele? Yes, vigor nerf will hurt ele a lot, since fresh air will be left with one 50 sec cd and one 70 sec cd, it needs the dodges also to work with Evasive Arcana. No, ele cannot perma evade. You seriously have no clue if you list freaking earth shield here.

I listed earth shield to show elementalist is the class with most invuln in game and it is. And if you are saying elementalist is so depending on the vigor boon, then there is a balancing issue. So maybe we should start searching for other defensive tools for the elementalist instead of holding the old vigor.

Kodama.6453:

I listed earth shield to show elementalist is the class with most invuln in game and it is. And if you are saying elementalist is so depending on the vigor boon, then there is a balancing issue. So maybe we should start searching for other defensive tools for the elementalist instead of holding the old vigor.

You are making demonstrably false statments that have been countered already. There is no argument to be had here, because you are neither stating opinions nor being correct about the facts. You are simply wrong. Goodbye.

Kodama.6453:

I listed earth shield to show elementalist is the class with most invuln in game and it is. And if you are saying elementalist is so depending on the vigor boon, then there is a balancing issue. So maybe we should start searching for other defensive tools for the elementalist instead of holding the old vigor.

OH WOW, YOU ACTUALLY UNDERSTOOD? MAN, I’M AMAZED.

You’re making me bang my head into a wall, seriously. Please if you don’t understand the class, don’t act like what you say is right. It’s really not. Ele with the utilities you listed is basically as useless as having only 4 people.

I’m sorry to read that, but maybe show me where I am wrong? For the invuln fact I didn’t read anything about a class which has more access to it (invuln, not evade). So someone please show me where I am wrong? I just want to understand and don’t bother you anymore.

Kodama.6453:

I’m sorry to read that, but maybe show me where I am wrong? For the invuln fact I didn’t read anything about a class which has more access to it (invuln, not evade). So someone please show me where I am wrong? I just want to understand and don’t bother you anymore.

Okay, if you take earth shield in pvp, you’re either going to be locked out of your weapon skills that are crucial for you or you’re going to be wasting long cooldowns for an invuln that will do nothing for you only prolong the time you’re alive. But it’s not going to be by a lot. You can’t do any pressure with the shield.

Same with mistform, you cannot use your weapon skills not utilities, which is basically making you live longer for a bit, eventually escape, however you can be immobilized before the mistform anyway.

So no pressure for something that has insanely long cooldowns. Now go and compare it to distortion, please. It’s not about how much access you have to certain utilities, but how good they are. I would exchange all of these for distortion. Obsidian flesh is by far the best one, but that makes ele locked into focus, which kinda sucks. If you’re fresh air, you just cannot take dagger offhand if you’re facing players with at least half brain.

It’s not all bad, at least we can dodge right and use our active defense right…oh wait. The reason why vigor is so important for ele is the simple fact it’s very squishy and it needs to spend some dodges on evasive arcana.

• ignoring this kitten discution started by someone not playing the class *

When i first read this change, i didnt understand why.
Then came the engi part’s patch
And everything become clear

Adrenal Implant: Endurance regeneration is increased by 50%.

This trait has been useless since release since endurance regen cap is +100%
Now you can add this now-OP trait with vigor to get to the cap.

How this worked at Anet

“-GUYS!! Engi have one useless trait! It’s a cataclysm!!! we need to power creep the class to the 8th heaven!!!
- Make it synergyze with by nerfing vigor!
-Genius!!
- but … wait, that would nerf ele ….
- 2bird one shot! gg team
"
as i say about Anet way to release balance patch:

This ain’t a good patch if it doesn’t nerf ele

Mattmatt.4962:

• ignoring this kitten discution started by someone not playing the class *

When i first read this change, i didnt understand why.
Then came the engi part’s patch
And everything become clear

Adrenal Implant: Endurance regeneration is increased by 50%.

This trait has been useless since release since endurance regen cap is +100%
Now you can add this now-OP trait with vigor to get to the cap.

How this worked at Anet

“-GUYS!! Engi have one useless trait! It’s a cataclysm!!! we need to power creep the class to the 8th heaven!!!
- Make it synergyze with by nerfing vigor!
-Genius!!
- but … wait, that would nerf ele ….
- 2bird one shot! gg team
"
as i say about Anet way to release balance patch:

This ain’t a good patch if it doesn’t nerf ele

vigor and adrenal implant dont stack, have never stacked and will never stack but its perma vigor now without having vigor. if u want to see who has the best vigor now look at thief (endless stamina trait). and to the person who really thought necro is the winner of the vigor nerf spoiler alert that was a joke.

Kodama.6453:

I listed earth shield to show elementalist is the class with most invuln in game and it is. And if you are saying elementalist is so depending on the vigor boon, then there is a balancing issue. So maybe we should start searching for other defensive tools for the elementalist instead of holding the old vigor.

pretty sure mesmer is the class with the most reliable vulnerability application, could be wrong though. Yeah sure elementalists could use some utility skills and traits to get 25 stacks of vulnerability, its possible. But no one builds that way because you’d end up being garbage.

Second off, Evasive Arcana forces dodges to obtain specific effects, sure you could argue to try and also dodge an ability which may break you while also obtaining your effect, but come on now thats not always the best choice of action. For a class that is being forced to dodge if picking up the EA trait in order to obtain a desired effect, they should also be able to obtain a decent amount of endurance regen IMO anyway… I’m all about the active play and I think these passive effects they’re giving the class to soak up damage are just stupid… And before anyone tries to argue that vigor is a “passive” buff, you have to actively dodge in order to utilize vigor…

It goes from 1 dodge every 5s to one every 6.67s. Not really a big change.

Its only a huge difference if you have weakness on you since before with weakness on you still got one dodge every 6.67s but now its every 10s since vigor is +50% and weakness is -50%.

Goldenrevolver.4371:

vigor and adrenal implant dont stack, have never stacked and will never stack but its perma vigor now without having vigor. if u want to see who has the best vigor now look at thief (endless stamina trait). and to the person who really thought necro is the winner of the vigor nerf spoiler alert that was a joke.

It will stack now
Since the only reason it didnt stack was the endurance regen cap beeing +100%
Guess what: 50 + 50=100 :o

Mattmatt.4962:

Goldenrevolver.4371:

vigor and adrenal implant dont stack, have never stacked and will never stack but its perma vigor now without having vigor. if u want to see who has the best vigor now look at thief (endless stamina trait). and to the person who really thought necro is the winner of the vigor nerf spoiler alert that was a joke.

It will stack now
Since the only reason it didnt stack was the endurance regen cap beeing +100%
Guess what: 50 + 50=100 :o

Are you sure it’s additive? And not multiplied? So 75% instead, similar to what this thieves are getting

Your math is wrong, if it would be multiplied it would be 1,5*1,5 = 2,25 so 125% more endurance regeneration.

but capped to 100% so it doesnt matter if it’s multiplied or additived

Thief’s trait says "vigor is 50% more effectiv eon you. meaning a +50% regen goes to a +75% nothing to do with engi that increase regen directly, not vigor effectiveness.

Sigil of Energy will be mandatory I guess.

Valento.9852:

Sigil of Energy will be mandatory I guess.

Which is just great since it leaves you with only one optional sigil.

I am really ok with this change, honestly. Vigor was too strong.

What they REALLY need to do at the same time as this, is update the rediculous utility CDs, terrible utilities, and terrible weapon-skills that make anything except bunky d/d and staff viable.

I think the problem was not that vigor was too strong but that access to it was too widespread. I mean a lot of teams have a warrior, if you’re near them when they war horn 5 that’s vigor for 5 allies for 10s and on a 16s cool down if traited. Ele and thief need vigorous the most, they have low base health and rely on dodging, hence why they needed high uptime. Other classes not so much as they had invuln, block, teleport or excessive movement speed to compensate.

Still I think now is the time to perhaps revise some of our utilities and see if a cool down shave is appropriate if vigor is being reduced. I’m sure even Mik would agree to that =)

apharma.3741:

I think the problem was not that vigor was too strong but that access to it was too widespread. I mean a lot of teams have a warrior, if you’re near them when they war horn 5 that’s vigor for 5 allies for 10s and on a 16s cool down if traited. Ele and thief need vigorous the most, they have low base health and rely on dodging, hence why they needed high uptime. Other classes not so much as they had invuln, block, teleport or excessive movement speed to compensate.

Still I think now is the time to perhaps revise some of our utilities and see if a cool down shave is appropriate if vigor is being reduced. I’m sure even Mik would agree to that =)

Haha, I said several times I’d be fine with the nerf if they actually did something about ele survability in general.

We definitely need the cooldowns on our survival skills like arcane shield, mist form, etc. drastically reduced to make up for this. Halved at least.

And its real great that engi, that has 1 million blocks and ways of defending themselves can take a trait that gives them 50% better endurance regen and still have high uptime on vigor essentially giving them the current unnerfed form of vigor. The only reason adrenal implant doesnt stack with vigor now is because endurance regen caps at 100%. It will add together after the changes and the implant will stack with vigor. Where’s ele’s perma endurance regen trait that stacks with vigor when we need it WAY more than engi does?

Buy your energy sigils now before the price skyrockets. They’ll be mandatory now meaning we have to give up a sigil slot we cant afford to give up.