Guild Wars 2

I have been thinking a lot about weapon swapping for the elementalist. I am primarily a D/D wielder but frequently swap to staff or S/D if the situation calls for it. It is hard to predict a fight, especially in WvW, and I think weapon swapping could balance out the class. Weapon swapping in the traditional sense would be OP and out of combat weapon swap would be mostly useless. Here is how I think weapon swapping could be implemented without being OP:

generally weapons swapping has a 10 second cool down and our attunments, without any points in arcana, have a 15 second cool down. So why not give us weapon swaps with that same 15 second cool down with a catch? it would work like this: If we swap weapons in combat it puts every attunment on cool down, except for the attunment we are currently in. So, if I’m in fire and swap weapons, water, air and earth all go on cool down. After 15 seconds I can either swap back, with the same behavior, or swap attunments as usual. This severely penalizes swapping and returning whike rewarding players for playing smart and adapting to a situation. Adding points in arcana would behave as it does now by reducing attunment cool down, but not the weapon swap cool down.

This would make weapon swaps strategic and wouldn’t allow for any spamable abilities. It would also allow us to utilize some of our combo fields if timed right. Most importantly though, we would be able to quickly adapt to any situation in a viable, balanced way. If someone closes the gap while in staff, switch to daggers and fight with limited abilities or stay with staff, CC and run. This would be a fun gameplay mechanic and would open the door to new builds. Hell, it could even make the all spells in X attunment recharge 20% faster trait useful.

Feel free to leave criticisms and/or suggestions.

The only way to ‘balance’ it is by making it happen out of combat only.

Like ThiBash said. However your idea has merits but will be perceived as extremely OP. I would go so far as to say that doubling or even tripling the swap durations would be recieved better.

I don’t get how it would be ‘extremly OP’. Mind explaining?

Because of the raw flexibility.
The reason current Elementalist feels so weak is because as a result of the 100% extra weapon abilities, Elementalists were very strong in beta. To the point where they did what Mesmers did post release, eat nerf after nerf. Rightfully so, too.

Did it go to far? I’d argue yes, but I’d say the same about the Portal nerf (which also kept it overpowered in WvW, and made it rubbish in PvE :P ).

Yeroc.7516:

This would be a fun gameplay mechanic and would open the door to new builds.

This is eaxactly the wrong reason to implement in combat weapon swapping. Adding new, potentially devastating new combinations is something you want to avoid for game balance’s sake. Dismissing the auto attacks for a moment, you now have 4*4*4=64 new skill combinations that have to be balanced relatively to eachother.

That’s exactly the thing they wanted to avoid coming from GW1.

Not bad. There are still some trick you still could do like double projectile reflect with staff→focus or extra healing with breath/trident but well.

I’d rather see the engies have more weapons…

ThiBash.5634:

Yeroc.7516:

This would be a fun gameplay mechanic and would open the door to new builds.

This is eaxactly the wrong reason to implement in combat weapon swapping. Adding new, potentially devastating new combinations is something you want to avoid for game balance’s sake.

Actually, increasing fun and improving build diversity are pretty much the best possible reasons to make a big change like this. You just have to respect balance as well, and I agree that any sort of in-combat weaponswapping would be OP.

An out-of-combat weapon swap that only disables once we use a weapon skill in-combat would be pretty awesome, though. That way, you could scoot around a map with Staff on, but if you turn a corner and run into a bunch of monsters you could still have the chance to switch to S/D or D/D before starting to kill them in earnest. And then after you were done, you wouldn’t have to go to the character pane and fiddle with weapons.

Im playing D/D ele and its sad im useless in some situations. For example, jumping puzzles in WvW. Enemy attackers spamming their ranged spells so im slowed and without option to do something. I cant swap to ranged weapon so escape is the only option. Im stuck in combat often, so i still cant swap weapons. Its really annoying. Same for deffending/ attacking buildings in wvw. etc, ..

I don’t see how this would be overpowered, yes it gives us some extra flexibility in terms of ranged and melee combat. However, it also severely limits what you can do during the 15 seconds your attunements and other weapon set are on cool down, it would have to be used strategically. For instance if your caught without 3/4 of your abilities, you’re essentially screwed, no gap closers, CC. You’re stuck for 15 seconds with your trousers down.

I’d be completely happy with an out-of-combat only weapon swap to just save on the inventory juggling.

Also, “scooting around the map” works better with daggers and not staff. D/D ele is probably the fastest class there is.

Out of combat weapon swap would be fine, but there is really no need for an in-combat weapon-swap.

I lot of people complain about D/D being locked into melee only, but seriously, I NEVER have issues forcing an opponent into melee. It is nigh impossible to kite a good D/D Ele, and extremely difficult to escape one.

So I mean, yes, D/D is locked into melee…but it has plenty of tools to force a melee situation, so I don’t see it as a problem. The only time where I have to switch to staff is basically a siege situation.

Anyway, here is how I look at Ele as compared to other classes. Other classes can choose any two weapons, but those weapons tend to be focused on a specific thing. Like GS warrior is focused on high melee AoE damage, while hammer is focused on CC, rifle on single target ranged damage, 1H sword on cond damage etc. So you basically can mix and match between two “roles.”

So you may have a ranged single target DPS / AoE melee DPS warrior (rifle / greatsword). Or a melee CC / melee cond damage warrior (Hammer / 1H sword).

Ele, on the other hand ALWAYS has multiple roles available to them. With every weapon set, and Ele can heal, CC, AoE DPS, cond damage, and support with just weapon skills. What they CANNOT do is switch between ranged and melee with weapon swap.

So it’s a double edged sword. Ele’s cannot customize their builds to have melee/ranged flexibility, but they ALWAYS have multiple roles available to them that other classes do not have. Personally, I like it this way.

ThiBash.5634:

Yeroc.7516:

This would be a fun gameplay mechanic and would open the door to new builds.

This is eaxactly the wrong reason to implement in combat weapon swapping. Adding new, potentially devastating new combinations is something you want to avoid for game balance’s sake. Dismissing the auto attacks for a moment, you now have 4*4*4=64 new skill combinations that have to be balanced relatively to eachother.

That’s exactly the thing they wanted to avoid coming from GW1.

They tried to avoid that with the thief so they gave them the ability to spam an attack. How’s that working out? Spam 2222 win!

Balance doesn’t matter if it’s 1 ability or 64 abilities – it’s how to implement it. I think the OP idea is creative and add restriction to weapon swapping which ties to attunements. With some tweak, I think it could work.

Sifu.6527:

ThiBash.5634:

Yeroc.7516:

This would be a fun gameplay mechanic and would open the door to new builds.

This is eaxactly the wrong reason to implement in combat weapon swapping. Adding new, potentially devastating new combinations is something you want to avoid for game balance’s sake. Dismissing the auto attacks for a moment, you now have 4*4*4=64 new skill combinations that have to be balanced relatively to eachother.

That’s exactly the thing they wanted to avoid coming from GW1.

They tried to avoid that with the thief so they gave them the ability to spam an attack. How’s that working out? Spam 2222 win!

Balance doesn’t matter if it’s 1 ability or 64 abilities – it’s how to implement it. I think the OP idea is creative and add restriction to weapon swapping which ties to attunements. With some tweak, I think it could work.

Anyone that is killed 1v1 by a pure heartseeker spamming thief needs to L2P…especially an Ele.

Out of combat weapon swap with a possibly longer cooldown than other profession’s weapon swap. Lets keep asking for it.

In combat weapon swaps because so much of the time in WvW a d/d ele is literally bringing a knife to a gunfight.

ThiBash.5634:

Yeroc.7516:

This would be a fun gameplay mechanic and would open the door to new builds.

This is eaxactly the wrong reason to implement in combat weapon swapping. Adding new, potentially devastating new combinations is something you want to avoid for game balance’s sake. Dismissing the auto attacks for a moment, you now have 4*4*4=64 new skill combinations that have to be balanced relatively to eachother.

That’s exactly the thing they wanted to avoid coming from GW1.

I disagree here. Yes, balancing the skills needs to be taken into consideration, but the limitations I listed allow for impossible abuse of other attunments. The biggest balancing issue would be water, a lot of healing. Other than that though, I can’t think of anything that would be OP. we would get some extra combo finishers, which we used to have anyway. This is a much more interesting and strategic way of implementing it.

In combat swap, albeit with a lengthy cd on swapping.
To those saying they have no problem getting to melee other players, I`d like to know how you melee players that are in jumping puzzles at range or players on/below keep walls?

Yeroc.7516:

Other than that though, I can’t think of anything that would be OP.

The fact that you can’t think of anything right now doesn’t mean certain combinations couldn’t eventually arise. Even the added blast finishers you mentioned are essentially buffs.

The thing is really, you’re missing the bigger picture here. Sure, it would be cool, and sure, it would be useful. However, skills were separated by weapon for a reason. Guild Wars 1 was a nightmare to balance. Guild Wars 2 a lot less. Adding more complications to it is really something you should avoid, unless there’s no other way to fix it.

Seeing as how this weapon swap ‘issue’ can be solved by other means, I propose to do just that. As Jamie Hyneman would say: “Simpler is better.” And right now, simple fixes would be to either give the Frost Bow 1200 range, or reverse the direction on Magnetic Grasp. Neither of those will cause even half the balance headache your suggestion does.

ThiBash.5634:

Yeroc.7516:

Other than that though, I can’t think of anything that would be OP.

The fact that you can’t think of anything right now doesn’t mean certain combinations couldn’t eventually arise. Even the added blast finishers you mentioned are essentially buffs.

The thing is really, you’re missing the bigger picture here. Sure, it would be cool, and sure, it would be useful. However, skills were separated by weapon for a reason. Guild Wars 1 was a nightmare to balance. Guild Wars 2 a lot less. Adding more complications to it is really something you should avoid, unless there’s no other way to fix it.

Seeing as how this weapon swap ‘issue’ can be solved by other means, I propose to do just that. As Jamie Hyneman would say: “Simpler is better.” And right now, simple fixes would be to either give the Frost Bow 1200 range, or reverse the direction on Magnetic Grasp. Neither of those will cause even half the balance headache your suggestion does.

Imagine how brutal focus would be with all its defensive skills if you could switch to D/D. Obsidian flesh + churning earth, drop swirling winds and then switch to D/D to melee while immune to projectiles. Oh and auramancers? Yeah that’s three auras you can cast now instead of just 2…the buffs would be ridiculous.

Drop an eruption with staff and magnetic aura, and then switch to D/D and lightning flash + churning earth for like 14 stacks of bleed on a group, and immunity to projectiles.

Those are just a few I can think of…

Fishbait.6723:

In combat swap, albeit with a lengthy cd on swapping.
To those saying they have no problem getting to melee other players, I`d like to know how you melee players that are in jumping puzzles at range or players on/below keep walls?

The answer to jumping puzzles is simple…don’t equip D/D in jumping puzzles. Equipping a weapon set in a jumping puzzle where a very large amount of abilities make your character move is just….yeah.

Just equip staff…staff is good in jumping puzzles. Frozen ground will make most people fall…and it’s hard to avoid AoE’s when you can’t move much. And of course air 3…

And with keep walls, same deal. Just run back into keep to get out of combat and equip staff.

Creslin.1758:

ThiBash.5634:

Yeroc.7516:

Other than that though, I can’t think of anything that would be OP.

The fact that you can’t think of anything right now doesn’t mean certain combinations couldn’t eventually arise. Even the added blast finishers you mentioned are essentially buffs.

The thing is really, you’re missing the bigger picture here. Sure, it would be cool, and sure, it would be useful. However, skills were separated by weapon for a reason. Guild Wars 1 was a nightmare to balance. Guild Wars 2 a lot less. Adding more complications to it is really something you should avoid, unless there’s no other way to fix it.

Seeing as how this weapon swap ‘issue’ can be solved by other means, I propose to do just that. As Jamie Hyneman would say: “Simpler is better.” And right now, simple fixes would be to either give the Frost Bow 1200 range, or reverse the direction on Magnetic Grasp. Neither of those will cause even half the balance headache your suggestion does.

Imagine how brutal focus would be with all its defensive skills if you could switch to D/D. Obsidian flesh + churning earth, drop swirling winds and then switch to D/D to melee while immune to projectiles. Oh and auramancers? Yeah that’s three auras you can cast now instead of just 2…the buffs would be ridiculous.

Drop an eruption with staff and magnetic aura, and then switch to D/D and lightning flash + churning earth for like 14 stacks of bleed on a group, and immunity to projectiles.

Those are just a few I can think of…

You missed an important point within the OP, swapping weapons would put all of your attunements except the one you’re in, as well as your other weapon set on a 15 second cool down, what you say would not be possible if it was implemented like this.

Strodor.6051:

Creslin.1758:

ThiBash.5634:

Yeroc.7516:

Other than that though, I can’t think of anything that would be OP.

The fact that you can’t think of anything right now doesn’t mean certain combinations couldn’t eventually arise. Even the added blast finishers you mentioned are essentially buffs.

The thing is really, you’re missing the bigger picture here. Sure, it would be cool, and sure, it would be useful. However, skills were separated by weapon for a reason. Guild Wars 1 was a nightmare to balance. Guild Wars 2 a lot less. Adding more complications to it is really something you should avoid, unless there’s no other way to fix it.

Seeing as how this weapon swap ‘issue’ can be solved by other means, I propose to do just that. As Jamie Hyneman would say: “Simpler is better.” And right now, simple fixes would be to either give the Frost Bow 1200 range, or reverse the direction on Magnetic Grasp. Neither of those will cause even half the balance headache your suggestion does.

Imagine how brutal focus would be with all its defensive skills if you could switch to D/D. Obsidian flesh + churning earth, drop swirling winds and then switch to D/D to melee while immune to projectiles. Oh and auramancers? Yeah that’s three auras you can cast now instead of just 2…the buffs would be ridiculous.

Drop an eruption with staff and magnetic aura, and then switch to D/D and lightning flash + churning earth for like 14 stacks of bleed on a group, and immunity to projectiles.

Those are just a few I can think of…

You missed an important point within the OP, swapping weapons would put all of your attunements except the one you’re in, as well as your other weapon set on a 15 second cool down, what you say would not be possible if it was implemented like this.

Eruption + magnetic aura → churning earth is all earth my friend. As is obsidian flesh → churning earth.

Creslin.1758:

ThiBash.5634:

Yeroc.7516:

Other than that though, I can’t think of anything that would be OP.

The fact that you can’t think of anything right now doesn’t mean certain combinations couldn’t eventually arise. Even the added blast finishers you mentioned are essentially buffs.

The thing is really, you’re missing the bigger picture here. Sure, it would be cool, and sure, it would be useful. However, skills were separated by weapon for a reason. Guild Wars 1 was a nightmare to balance. Guild Wars 2 a lot less. Adding more complications to it is really something you should avoid, unless there’s no other way to fix it.

Seeing as how this weapon swap ‘issue’ can be solved by other means, I propose to do just that. As Jamie Hyneman would say: “Simpler is better.” And right now, simple fixes would be to either give the Frost Bow 1200 range, or reverse the direction on Magnetic Grasp. Neither of those will cause even half the balance headache your suggestion does.

Imagine how brutal focus would be with all its defensive skills if you could switch to D/D. Obsidian flesh + churning earth, drop swirling winds and then switch to D/D to melee while immune to projectiles. Oh and auramancers? Yeah that’s three auras you can cast now instead of just 2…the buffs would be ridiculous.

Drop an eruption with staff and magnetic aura, and then switch to D/D and lightning flash + churning earth for like 14 stacks of bleed on a group, and immunity to projectiles.

Those are just a few I can think of…

Obvisously, you didn’t read what the OP proposed. There will be a 12-15 sec cool down on all atunement when you swap weapon except for the atunement you’re in.

I’ll use your example to illustrate the restriction the OP is proposing.

“Obsidian flesh + churning earth, drop swirling winds and then switch to D/D to melee while immune to projectiles. "

In D/D Earth: Every atunement is off cool down. You cast Churning Earth, then switch to focus for Obsidian flesh. However all of your atunement is on a 12-15 cooldown. You cant switch to air for swirling wind. You’re stuck in Earth until other atune is off cooldown.

“Oh and auramancers? Yeah that’s three auras you can cast now instead of just 2…the buffs would be ridiculous.”

We always had 3 auras in D/D so I’m not seeing your point (1 is broken due to recent patch).

“Drop an eruption with staff and magnetic aura, and then switch to D/D and lightning flash + churning earth for like 14 stacks of bleed on a group, and immunity to projectiles.”

With just a staff I can do eruption + magnetic aura + lava font and or meteor shower on a group and be immune to projectiles…OMGZ it’s OP!!!! Even if you did it with Focus then switch to D/D + LF + CE into a group. How would you get out??? You’re stuck in a group of people in earth atunement and there’s still 10sec on atunement cd.

Sifu.6527:

Creslin.1758:

ThiBash.5634:

Yeroc.7516:

Other than that though, I can’t think of anything that would be OP.

The fact that you can’t think of anything right now doesn’t mean certain combinations couldn’t eventually arise. Even the added blast finishers you mentioned are essentially buffs.

The thing is really, you’re missing the bigger picture here. Sure, it would be cool, and sure, it would be useful. However, skills were separated by weapon for a reason. Guild Wars 1 was a nightmare to balance. Guild Wars 2 a lot less. Adding more complications to it is really something you should avoid, unless there’s no other way to fix it.

Seeing as how this weapon swap ‘issue’ can be solved by other means, I propose to do just that. As Jamie Hyneman would say: “Simpler is better.” And right now, simple fixes would be to either give the Frost Bow 1200 range, or reverse the direction on Magnetic Grasp. Neither of those will cause even half the balance headache your suggestion does.

Imagine how brutal focus would be with all its defensive skills if you could switch to D/D. Obsidian flesh + churning earth, drop swirling winds and then switch to D/D to melee while immune to projectiles. Oh and auramancers? Yeah that’s three auras you can cast now instead of just 2…the buffs would be ridiculous.

Drop an eruption with staff and magnetic aura, and then switch to D/D and lightning flash + churning earth for like 14 stacks of bleed on a group, and immunity to projectiles.

Those are just a few I can think of…

Obvisously, you didn’t read what the OP proposed. There will be a 12-15 sec cool down on all atunement when you swap weapon except for the atunement you’re in.

I’ll use your example to illustrate the restriction the OP is proposing.

“Obsidian flesh + churning earth, drop swirling winds and then switch to D/D to melee while immune to projectiles. "

In D/D Earth: Every atunement is off cool down. You cast Churning Earth, then switch to focus for Obsidian flesh. However all of your atunement is on a 12-15 cooldown. You cant switch to air for swirling wind. You’re stuck in Earth until other atune is off cooldown.

“Oh and auramancers? Yeah that’s three auras you can cast now instead of just 2…the buffs would be ridiculous.”

We always had 3 auras in D/D so I’m not seeing your point (1 is broken due to recent patch).

“Drop an eruption with staff and magnetic aura, and then switch to D/D and lightning flash + churning earth for like 14 stacks of bleed on a group, and immunity to projectiles.”

With just a staff I can do eruption + magnetic aura + lava font and or meteor shower on a group and be immune to projectiles…OMGZ it’s OP!!!! Even if you did it with Focus then switch to D/D + LF + CE into a group. How would you get out??? You’re stuck in a group of people in earth atunement and there’s still 10sec on atunement cd.

There are plenty of ways to get out…you just need to survive until your air is off CD, which isn’t all that hard. I realize the attunement CD thing, that’s why I pointed out the examples that were all one attunement.

Point is, each one of those things may not seem incredibly OP. But start putting all of them together, and they become ridiculous. This change would also make the arcana tree even MORE of a necessity than it already is because players will want to reduce their attunement CD at all costs.

There’s also nothing to stop you from doing like a three/four attunement rotation on one weapon set, and then switching to the other to have powerful skills off cooldown, and not pay that much of a price in attunement CD because they were all(most) on CD already.

I just don’t see a need to allow in-combat weapon swapping. Ele is plenty versatile enough without it, and allowing it will almost FOR SURE cause balance problems that we aren’t even considering.

They need to add the extra equipment slot for a second set of weapons, but only allow us to switch when out of combat. This is similar to what most good players are already doing, but without a hotkey, which is irritating.

We need to make this a priority for the Elementalist community, because many people stick to one weapon for all situations and think Elementalist are weak.

To those saying S/F then D/D would be OP etc, how about this?

Main weapon slots are for D/D, S/F etc, second weapon swap is for Staff & nothing else.

As for Conjured, they`re not worth the effort.
Having to lose a major Utility slot for something that lasts a few seconds/casts & has meagre damage/range etc & someone else always grabs the spare one, ALWAYS!
Oh, side note (sort of) I got sick of standing back one day so tried Frost bow, had to spam spawn it fast &…..
Apparently we`re masters of gravity ;p

Sifu.6527:

Obvisously, you didn’t read what the OP proposed. There will be a 12-15 sec cool down on all atunement when you swap weapon except for the atunement you’re in.

Like Creslin said, that doesn’t change things. You’re still allowed to combine skills that were separated for a reason.

Also, you’re not reading my other argument. There are other, simpler ways to fix the range problem than adding weapon swaps.

Changing conjured weapons is one option (maybe through traits). Making magnetic grasp pull foes to you instead of you to them is another. Neither will upset the game balance half as much as adding weapon swaps would.

Creslin.1758:

Strodor.6051:

Creslin.1758:

ThiBash.5634:

Yeroc.7516:

Other than that though, I can’t think of anything that would be OP.

The fact that you can’t think of anything right now doesn’t mean certain combinations couldn’t eventually arise. Even the added blast finishers you mentioned are essentially buffs.

The thing is really, you’re missing the bigger picture here. Sure, it would be cool, and sure, it would be useful. However, skills were separated by weapon for a reason. Guild Wars 1 was a nightmare to balance. Guild Wars 2 a lot less. Adding more complications to it is really something you should avoid, unless there’s no other way to fix it.

Seeing as how this weapon swap ‘issue’ can be solved by other means, I propose to do just that. As Jamie Hyneman would say: “Simpler is better.” And right now, simple fixes would be to either give the Frost Bow 1200 range, or reverse the direction on Magnetic Grasp. Neither of those will cause even half the balance headache your suggestion does.

Imagine how brutal focus would be with all its defensive skills if you could switch to D/D. Obsidian flesh + churning earth, drop swirling winds and then switch to D/D to melee while immune to projectiles. Oh and auramancers? Yeah that’s three auras you can cast now instead of just 2…the buffs would be ridiculous.

Drop an eruption with staff and magnetic aura, and then switch to D/D and lightning flash + churning earth for like 14 stacks of bleed on a group, and immunity to projectiles.

Those are just a few I can think of…

You missed an important point within the OP, swapping weapons would put all of your attunements except the one you’re in, as well as your other weapon set on a 15 second cool down, what you say would not be possible if it was implemented like this.

Eruption + magnetic aura -> churning earth is all earth my friend. As is obsidian flesh -> churning earth.

My bad, eruption = lava font in my head.

They could give us a weapon swap slot for out of combat or 1min in combat or whatever, I hate to open my inventory and re-equip my staff or D/D just manualy =(