Weaver will FAIL if this doesn't change!

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Posted by: Zuko.7132

Zuko.7132

Okay fail might be a bit of an exaggeration, but there is a huge issue.

As it stands right now, this is how attunement swapping works for weaver. Start out fire/water. Fire skills for 1 and 2. Mix for 3. Water skills for 4 and 5. Press earth. You are now earth/fire. The water slides off the weapon bar, the earth takes the 1 and 2 slots. Mix for 3. Fire slides over to 4 and 5. Press earth again. Fire slides off the weapon bar. The new earth takes 1 and 2. Old earth slides to 4 and 5. Mix of earth and earth is earth so you get the pure earth skill for 3. So basically whenever you attune to a new element it always goes into the 1 and 2 spot then mixes with whatever element was in the 1 and 2 spot before you swapped.

And therein lies the problem. If you want to gain access to the 4 or 5 skill of an element, you need to swap attunements twice, first with the attunement you want the 4 or 5 skill in, then with any other attunement to actually move it to the 4 and 5 skill. This is a huge issue because many of the 4 and 5 skills on ele weapons are intended to be used reactively. Take obsidian flesh for instance. It’s value lies in mitigating a burst. But unless you have earth attunemnt already equipped, it will take you anywhere from 4 to 8 seconds depending on current attunement recharge to be able to equip that skill, and because of that it can no longer be used reactively and thus is useless. This is particularly true for the focus which is primarily a reactive weapon with skills such as swirling winds, magnetic wave, comet, and gale, but also applies to other weapons as well. The only person who could properly use these skills with the way weaver currently works is by being able to see the future up to 8 seconds down the road. And a seer I am not, nor do I suppose many of you are either.

Obviously there are times even now when you won’t have certain skills available because you already swapped into the attunement earlier. However, the way it works now you can choose not to swap into that attunement earlier, so you can have it immediately available down the line, while still being able to swap between the other attunements. Current players of meta d/f auramancer in pvp are quite aware of this, where it is a good strategy to not swap into earth attunement until you need obsidian flesh, for fear of being locked out of it when you do need it. You can’t do this with weaver unless you stop attunement swapping all together with your earth paused at 1 and 2 skill slots in the example of obsidian flesh. Clearly there needs to be a way to be able to use reactive skills reactively without pausing all attunement swapping.

My solution is simple. Use the weapon swap button which ele currently doesn’t use to swap between which side of ur weapon bar you want to swap attuenments for. If the left side of the bar is picked things can work the way they currently do with things sliding over and dropping out. But if the right side is picked, slide the right side attunement over to the left side and the right side becomes the new attunement. Basically just reverse the slide. Your active attunement will always be considered the one most recently swapped to. This will give weaver the ability to actually react with it’s reactive skills on the right side of its bar.

Let me know what you think

*Edited because i found out cd on attune swap is actually 4 seconds making this problem even worse
source: https://youtu.be/i7gGYfBxlJ8?t=3m6s

The Elementalist Dual Dagger Legend – Rest in Peace

(edited by Zuko.7132)

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Posted by: Snowball.3497

Snowball.3497

This seems to be a worry for many people I’ve talked to so far, but remember we’re all judging the Weaver mechanics from the limited picture of what we’ve seen so far. We don’t know exactly how it’ll turn out, or even if it will be a problem.

To leave a suggested solution to your problem though, there seems to be at least two ways to circumvent the mentioned problem and access offhand skills of any attunement reactively:

1, Use fresh air and go into target attunement —> crit --> go into air
2, Use the utility “Unravel” (max 2 charges, one charge takes 25s to recharge) to forego the weaver attunement mechanic for 5 seconds and fully attune to the elements.

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(edited by Snowball.3497)

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Posted by: Solori.6025

Solori.6025

That is actually a good suggestion, but may or may not lead to an abuse of the system.
We will have to test it before we make the assumption that it will fail. With the addition of some very good defensive traits, 3 second gcd on attunements, and the fact that you will also have barriers on all dual skills ( If traited I think) the new spec may be able to make it without your suggestion because it will have those bases covered.
Again, we will have to see and test.


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Posted by: Zuko.7132

Zuko.7132

This seems to be a worry for many people I’ve talked to so far, but remember we’re all judging the Weaver mechanics from the limited picture of what we’ve seen so far. We don’t know exactly how it’ll turn out, or even if it will be a problem.

To leave a suggested solution to your problem though, there seems to be at least two ways to circumvent the mentioned problem and access offhand skills of any attunement reactively:

1, Use fresh air and go into target attunement —> crit --> go into air
2, Use the utility “Unravel” (max 2 charges, one charge takes 25s to recharge) to forego the weaver attunement mechanic for 5 seconds and fully attune to the elements.

Those are some good points. I didn’t think about the fresh air thing, though obviously you do have to attack and crit for that to work, so it’s not quite as immediate as you might need it. I know about unravel, but having to take a utility just to be able to properly use ur skills seems like a poor solution to me. I’d much rather have the profession mechanic and the proper usage of skills able to coexist together, than to have to turn the whole thing off to fix a glaring issue that could easily be remedied with a slight change to the mechanic. Even with this the utility would still have it’s purpose for combos that need multiple attunements quickly or fast access to 3 skills or the effects from swapping attunements. I just think there shouldn’t have to be workarounds to have a skill do what it’s supposed to do.

The Elementalist Dual Dagger Legend – Rest in Peace

(edited by Zuko.7132)

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Posted by: Zuko.7132

Zuko.7132

That is actually a good suggestion, but may or may not lead to an abuse of the system.
We will have to test it before we make the assumption that it will fail. With the addition of some very good defensive traits, 3 second gcd on attunements, and the fact that you will also have barriers on all dual skills ( If traited I think) the new spec may be able to make it without your suggestion because it will have those bases covered.
Again, we will have to see and test.

Even if those defenses make up for it, you still have the problem of having skills that you can’t use for their intended reactive purposes. I would rather they adjust the numbers of some of the defensive traits and barriers than kitten the functionality of weapon skills. And honestly the fail thing was more click bait lol. I think it would harm viable weapon choices though, mainly the focus. I just have an issue with a profession mechanic preventing the proper use of skills.

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Posted by: Blue.1207

Blue.1207

I wouldn’t say this is intended, but considering the spec’s absurdly large skill variety and therefore ceiling, this may just be an intended downside of the class and therefore something to play around.

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Posted by: Wolfric.9380

Wolfric.9380

I have the same concern. Mainly focus and offhand dagger are very reactive weapons and it can undermine their purpose. I personally realy like adaptiv and reactive play. If this is combined with significant powercreep the result gets quite riduculus because it will again force people to play what they don´t want.

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Posted by: Ulion.5476

Ulion.5476

We just have to wait and see how the dual skills are. IF their are dual skills per weapon combos then we will have 6 new skills for the 5 core weapon combos. We know that weaver gain extra 120 vitality plus 5% vital from power/precision. Dual skills provide a barrier (500-800 not sure how it scales). One of the GM trait weavers get is a very good condition removal. Gain 3sec of superspeed on immob, chill or cripple plus remove conditions every 0.5 sec when you have superspeed.

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Posted by: Wolfric.9380

Wolfric.9380

I say it looks promising and we don´t know exactly till we play it. But urging people to play somthing they don´t enjoy (and powercreep does push for it) will always result in negativ feelings. So let´s think positive. :-).

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Posted by: Zuko.7132

Zuko.7132

We just have to wait and see how the dual skills are. IF their are dual skills per weapon combos then we will have 6 new skills for the 5 core weapon combos. We know that weaver gain extra 120 vitality plus 5% vital from power/precision. Dual skills provide a barrier (500-800 not sure how it scales). One of the GM trait weavers get is a very good condition removal. Gain 3sec of superspeed on immob, chill or cripple plus remove conditions every 0.5 sec when you have superspeed.

That vitality is from a trait that you have to choose, so it’s not base line. Honestly it’s like 2k extra health in a good scenario. I’m pretty sure barrier functions as extra health that then degenerates quickly. so that’s about 1 auto. I’m not too impressed by those but it’s something. The condi removal however is gonna be aids. Especially with fresh air and superspeed on air attune. However, I just don’t see how preventing reactionary skills from being used reactively can possibly be a good thing though, and i’m very doubtful of passive defenses being able to compensate for the loss of being able to use active defensive skills when you need them. Except for condi, we gonna be laughing at condi.

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Posted by: Waisenpai.6028

Waisenpai.6028

I was at work and I saw this at my break room computer. Late to respond.

You so the clip wrong…. On wooden potatoe.

You hit fire attunement you get fire/earth hit again fire attunement and you get pure fire attument 5/5. So you just have to double tap if you want raw fire. Or you can hit fire use fire and earth and hit fire attunment to get fire 4-5 you don’t have to rotate pass everything LOL.

I SEE YOUR PAIN BUT THERE IS NO PAIN JUST KITTEN IN YOUR EYES!!!!!!!

Also dodge mini damage reduction is used to counter the necro/condi reaper boon corruption damage mitigation not actual damage, going to earth with arcane trait line will protect you or using air to mitigate raw power damage. Eles lol.

Min Min core d/d ele Borlis Pass Bunny Thumper

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Posted by: Waisenpai.6028

Waisenpai.6028

HIT F1 for fire/earth you want fire 4/5 hit F1 again. You can go straight into it. you have .15 second delayif you are faster .07 second

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Posted by: draxynnic.3719

draxynnic.3719

Isn’t there a 3s global recharge on attunement-swapping?

However, not applying such a recharge to the attunement you just swapped to would be an appropriate solution. If you need a particular skill right NOW, double-tap.

Now, this might get silly with the minor master traits, but that could be resolved by giving them a 3s internal cooldown so they only trigger once from a double-tap.

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People don’t hate Scarlet like Game of Thrones fans hate Joffrey.
They hate her the way Star Wars fans hate Jar Jar Binks.

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Posted by: Jski.6180

Jski.6180

So play core ele? The point of the elite spec is to give up something for something new. Tempest did not realty have this but weaver seems to have this to a point.

Main : Jski Imaginary ELE (Necromancer)
Guild : OBEY (The Legacy) I call it Obay , TLC (WvW) , UNIV (other)
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Posted by: morrolan.9608

morrolan.9608

My solution is simple. Use the weapon swap button which ele currently doesn’t use to swap between which side of ur weapon bar you want to swap attuenments for. If the left side of the bar is picked things can work the way they currently do with things sliding over and dropping out. But if the right side is picked, keep the left side the same and swap the 4 and 5 skills for the new attunement. This will give weaver the ability to actually react with it’s reactive skills on the right side of its bar.

Let me know what you think

Using weapon swap would be ideal.

Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro

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Posted by: Waisenpai.6028

Waisenpai.6028

He want’s using arcane traitline there is always a 3 secs attunement swap. try swapping without arcane. if you do a chain its around 2.5 seconds. SO if you fire 2 chanelling you can f1 again and tap the fire 5. It’s just like you are swapping into a mini attument. If you are a core ele d/d rotate like I do strait 2-3 of roations as a d.d ele everyday and around 6-9 hours on weekends so same thing. Just don’t be a noob and butter fingers. The combo skill isnt’ bad. Just hit 3 before you hit f1 to unload.

Overall its more damage and rotation its opposite from tempest’s dumb down of rotations.

You will still be vulnerable to boon corruption, boon steals, heavy condi burst, and soft and hard cc stun.

It is a good direction for ele to go. It’s a selfish ele where you focus on your self. Just don’t face tank.

Arcane, water and Weaver traitiline seems balance in wvw Scepter you can go air, water and weaver but I think damage might be a bit higher but losing arcane line can be quite dangerous for pure glass builds.

You never know and think about all the new condi buffs and now they have healing and damage mitigation on their sides and more cc.

Risk and reward… Pretty colors. You’ll be fine just pretend you are 2/3 D.D ele and 1/3 scepter ele. Don’t stand still you’ll melt, cele 60% with crusader and zerker sounds like fun as gear/accessories.

Min Min core d/d ele Borlis Pass Bunny Thumper

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Posted by: apharma.3741

apharma.3741

So play core ele? The point of the elite spec is to give up something for something new. Tempest did not realty have this but weaver seems to have this to a point.

My thoughts exactly.

@waisenpai, there’s a trait for stab on stance so you will be less vulnerable to CC (not a stun break but we can’t have everything) and I’m thinking with modest boon duration you can get that stab to be 6s+ in duration. The only issue for me is that barrier doesn’t seem like it will reduce damage enough to simply rely on the heal skill and some skills like cleansing wave and dodge in water. I’ll wait and see how the new barrier mechanic works and stance charges but I have a feeling we’re a long way from dropping water trait line without some changes to the heal stance.

I’ve been looking at the healing stance and as far as I can see unless it scales at a 1:2 ratio with healing power it’s almost strictly worse than every ele heal currently.

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Posted by: Venatorn.7619

Venatorn.7619

Kind of agree with this, but the whole point of Weaver is to juggle two elements at a time, and quite literally you can picture the motion of juggling, grab with right hand (1&2) then pass it off to your left hand (4&5) and I think that seems cool.
Now, if you need to get to 4/5 quickly there is a stance skill called “unravel” that lets you swap to a pure element i.e going from water/earth straight to fire/fire
While it’s only a sort of fix to your problem, I think it would feel just fine

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weaver

All proffesions 80

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Posted by: Khenzy.9348

Khenzy.9348

What you are complaining about is supposed to be a trade off. This spec is supposed to be played differently. You are also jumping into conclusions without playing it yourself or without enough info on all the new skills/traits.

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Posted by: Dadnir.5038

Dadnir.5038

I think the real worry should be about the survivability of the weaver instead.
From the look of it the majority of the weaver will still be bound to earth and water.

No core profession should be balanced around an optional elite specialization.

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Posted by: Glenstorm.4059

Glenstorm.4059

I think the real worry should be about the survivability of the weaver instead.
From the look of it the majority of the weaver will still be bound to earth and water.

This.

From a PvP perspective, all I want is to be able to play DPS Ele without getting blown up on sight by a Thief.

Really hoping Weaver comes through in that regard.

Fear the might of SHATTERSTONE.

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Posted by: Seiyaryu.9382

Seiyaryu.9382

So I had a thought, would this new element swapping still count for traits like “sunspot” or “healing ripple”, I mean if i was water/fire and swapped to water/water would I get another burst of “healing ripple”?

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Posted by: Noctix.9624

Noctix.9624

Yeah I feel like it needs some sort of a second button or something. Kinda silly that you have to double attune just to set stuff up especially when some swaps might need to be done immediately.

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Posted by: Egrimm Van Horstmann.7921

Egrimm Van Horstmann.7921

I don’t know how well the Weaver will work, but given the current complication of elements increasing the difficulty by 2 in getting what you need when you want it is going to really make this class very tenuous for multi-toon players. Tracking 32 combinations for each weapon set? Good luck remembering that when you play another profession.

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Posted by: apharma.3741

apharma.3741

So I had a thought, would this new element swapping still count for traits like “sunspot” or “healing ripple”, I mean if i was water/fire and swapped to water/water would I get another burst of “healing ripple”?

You are attuned for traits sake by the element on your 1 and 2 skills. If you look at the previews when they’re in water/fire they have the water attunement buff.

Yes if you go into water and go fully into water you get 2x healing ripple as far as I can tell, same for a lot of the other minors. Part of me hopes the no ICD on a lot of these traits was taken into consideration.

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Posted by: SrebX.6498

SrebX.6498

My solution is simple. Use the weapon swap button which ele currently doesn’t use to swap between which side of ur weapon bar you want to swap attuenments for.

Simple, fast, easy to implement and easy to fathom. Perfect solution imo.

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Posted by: morrolan.9608

morrolan.9608

I think the real worry should be about the survivability of the weaver instead.
From the look of it the majority of the weaver will still be bound to earth and water.

Thats why there is the barrier. I think when running solo using the traits and abilities to maximise barrier will be a must.

Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro

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Posted by: Waisenpai.6028

Waisenpai.6028

Lol Weaver would be fine arcane water and weaver! You can’t face tank. but you have lots of vigor to dodge fight.

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Posted by: Zuko.7132

Zuko.7132

I was at work and I saw this at my break room computer. Late to respond.

You so the clip wrong…. On wooden potatoe.

You hit fire attunement you get fire/earth hit again fire attunement and you get pure fire attument 5/5. So you just have to double tap if you want raw fire. Or you can hit fire use fire and earth and hit fire attunment to get fire 4-5 you don’t have to rotate pass everything LOL.

I SEE YOUR PAIN BUT THERE IS NO PAIN JUST KITTEN IN YOUR EYES!!!!!!!

Also dodge mini damage reduction is used to counter the necro/condi reaper boon corruption damage mitigation not actual damage, going to earth with arcane trait line will protect you or using air to mitigate raw power damage. Eles lol.

Yes you can hit fire twice in a row, but fire goes on cooldown when you hit fire along with everything else, so it will take 4 to 8 seconds to hit fire twice and get the full skill bar depending on current attunement recharge, which is exactly what i said in my post above… You can’t double tap to get fire fire. You have to hit fire wait for cooldown then hit fire again.

The Elementalist Dual Dagger Legend – Rest in Peace

(edited by Zuko.7132)

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Posted by: Zuko.7132

Zuko.7132

I think the real worry should be about the survivability of the weaver instead.
From the look of it the majority of the weaver will still be bound to earth and water.

This.

From a PvP perspective, all I want is to be able to play DPS Ele without getting blown up on sight by a Thief.

Really hoping Weaver comes through in that regard.

That’s why it’s so important to be able to use reactive defensive skills reactively such as obsidian flesh. Locking off our biggest survivablity skills from being used reactively will hurt eles survivability dramatically.

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Posted by: Zuko.7132

Zuko.7132

What you are complaining about is supposed to be a trade off. This spec is supposed to be played differently. You are also jumping into conclusions without playing it yourself or without enough info on all the new skills/traits.

Their would still be a trade off even with my suggestion. You still can’t fully swap your bar with weaver, even if you were allowed to target which side of the bar you want to change. Thus ele would still have the advantage of being able to fully attune to one element with one button press and the advantage of all attunement swaps not sharing the same cooldown. Thus there still is a trade off. As I said earlier in the post, I don’t actually know if this will cause it to fail. What I do know is that it is impossible to use many offhand weapon skills for their intended purposes, namely reacting to the enemy, without predicting 4 to 8 seconds in the future with the way weaver currently works. I think an elite spec shouldn’t prevent the proper use of core skills. I would rather have some of the weaver trait toned down and have the ability to swap properly, than the lack of an ability to swap and overpowered weaver traits to compensate for destroying the functionality of multiple skills.

The Elementalist Dual Dagger Legend – Rest in Peace

(edited by Zuko.7132)

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Posted by: sephiroth.4217

sephiroth.4217

How Is Elementalist going to Might stack on D/D with Weaver?

I mostly play for the new Free-For-All arena in PvP lobby.
….. And Elementalist.

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Posted by: Zuko.7132

Zuko.7132

How Is Elementalist going to Might stack on D/D with Weaver?

it’s not gonna be able to. D/D ele still dead, at least as we know it now. Especially with shocking aura going away most of the time. Hopefully a brand new play style develops that fills the same role, or at least a role other than healbot for pvp.

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Posted by: sephiroth.4217

sephiroth.4217

How Is Elementalist going to Might stack on D/D with Weaver?

it’s not gonna be able to. D/D ele still dead, at least as we know it now. Especially with shocking aura going away most of the time. Hopefully a brand new play style develops that fills the same role, or at least a role other than healbot for pvp.

I must have missed this memo about D/D being dead… how does 20s of shocking aura go away? how is Ele locked into healbot? what?

I’m D/D 90% of the time for the past 4-5 years in PvP/WvW?

I’m excited for weaver but I rely on my might stacks on D/D for my build to be effective, I really hope they don’t lower the skill floor ceiling or gut might stack rotations from Ele entirely.

I mostly play for the new Free-For-All arena in PvP lobby.
….. And Elementalist.

(edited by sephiroth.4217)

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Posted by: CETheLucid.3964

CETheLucid.3964

Okay fail might be a bit of an exaggeration, but there is a huge issue.

As it stands right now, this is how attunement swapping works for weaver. Start out fire/water. Fire skills for 1 and 2. Mix for 3. Water skills for 4 and 5. Press earth. You are now earth/fire. The water slides off the weapon bar, the earth takes the 1 and 2 slots. Mix for 3. Fire slides over to 4 and 5. Press earth again. Fire slides off the weapon bar. The new earth takes 1 and 2. Old earth slides to 4 and 5. Mix of earth and earth is earth so you get the pure earth skill for 3. So basically whenever you attune to a new element it always goes into the 1 and 2 spot then mixes with whatever element was in the 1 and 2 spot before you swapped.

And therein lies the problem. If you want to gain access to the 4 or 5 skill of an element, you need to swap attunements twice, first with the attunement you want the 4 or 5 skill in, then with any other attunement to actually move it to the 4 and 5 skill. This is a huge issue because many of the 4 and 5 skills on ele weapons are intended to be used reactively. Take obsidian flesh for instance. It’s value lies in mitigating a burst. But unless you have earth attunemnt already equipped, it will take you anywhere from 3 to 6 seconds depending on current attunement recharge to be able to equip that skill, and because of that it can no longer be used reactively and thus is useless. This is particularly true for the focus which is primarily a reactive weapon with skills such as swirling winds, magnetic wave, comet, and gale, but also applies to other weapons as well. The only person who could properly use these skills with the way weaver currently works is by being able to see the future up to 6 seconds down the road. And a seer I am not, nor do I suppose many of you are either.

Obviously there are times even now when you won’t have certain skills available because you already swapped into the attunement earlier. However, the way it works now you can choose not to swap into that attunement earlier, so you can have it immediately available down the line, while still being able to swap between the other attunements. Current players of meta d/f auramancer in pvp are quite aware of this, where it is a good strategy to not swap into earth attunement until you need obsidian flesh, for fear of being locked out of it when you do need it. You can’t do this with weaver unless you stop attunement swapping all together with your earth paused at 1 and 2 skill slots in the example of obsidian flesh. Clearly there needs to be a way to be able to use reactive skills reactively without pausing all attunement swapping.

My solution is simple. Use the weapon swap button which ele currently doesn’t use to swap between which side of ur weapon bar you want to swap attuenments for. If the left side of the bar is picked things can work the way they currently do with things sliding over and dropping out. But if the right side is picked, keep the left side the same and swap the 4 and 5 skills for the new attunement. This will give weaver the ability to actually react with it’s reactive skills on the right side of its bar.

Let me know what you think

If you were earth/? at some point and you wanted Obsidian Flesh, the next attunement swap you make will put you into ?/earth giving you Obsidian Flesh. It’s going to be a matter of keeping track of what attunement was first before the swap.

To have Obsidian Flesh at the ready, you’ll need to be in earth/? and then swap into something to go ?/earth. Probably water. Here’s hoping the sword skills for water and earth are amazing, and the the dagger air combo skill is able to compete with Shocking Aura.

It is a lot to keep track of. I do like your idea at the end to make use of the weapon swap to toggle that behavior.

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Posted by: Zuko.7132

Zuko.7132

How Is Elementalist going to Might stack on D/D with Weaver?

it’s not gonna be able to. D/D ele still dead, at least as we know it now. Especially with shocking aura going away most of the time. Hopefully a brand new play style develops that fills the same role, or at least a role other than healbot for pvp.

I must have missed this memo about D/D being dead… how does 20s of shocking aura go away? how is Ele locked into healbot? what?

I’m D/D 90% of the time for the past 4-5 years in PvP/WvW?

I’m excited for weaver but I rely on my might stacks on D/D for my build to be effective, I really hope they don’t lower the skill floor ceiling or gut might stack rotations from Ele entirely.

in pvp d/d ele is dead, at least at the higher tiers, and is only run for fun, it doesn’t compete with other meta builds at a viable level. i meant shocking aura on air 3 for dagger will be really hard to gain access to on weaver seeing as you have to swap to air twice. also the shocking aura from overload and from elite will be gone so no more crazy shocking aura uptime, but that’s not d/d specific.

The Elementalist Dual Dagger Legend – Rest in Peace

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Posted by: Zuko.7132

Zuko.7132

Okay fail might be a bit of an exaggeration, but there is a huge issue.

As it stands right now, this is how attunement swapping works for weaver. Start out fire/water. Fire skills for 1 and 2. Mix for 3. Water skills for 4 and 5. Press earth. You are now earth/fire. The water slides off the weapon bar, the earth takes the 1 and 2 slots. Mix for 3. Fire slides over to 4 and 5. Press earth again. Fire slides off the weapon bar. The new earth takes 1 and 2. Old earth slides to 4 and 5. Mix of earth and earth is earth so you get the pure earth skill for 3. So basically whenever you attune to a new element it always goes into the 1 and 2 spot then mixes with whatever element was in the 1 and 2 spot before you swapped.

And therein lies the problem. If you want to gain access to the 4 or 5 skill of an element, you need to swap attunements twice, first with the attunement you want the 4 or 5 skill in, then with any other attunement to actually move it to the 4 and 5 skill. This is a huge issue because many of the 4 and 5 skills on ele weapons are intended to be used reactively. Take obsidian flesh for instance. It’s value lies in mitigating a burst. But unless you have earth attunemnt already equipped, it will take you anywhere from 3 to 6 seconds depending on current attunement recharge to be able to equip that skill, and because of that it can no longer be used reactively and thus is useless. This is particularly true for the focus which is primarily a reactive weapon with skills such as swirling winds, magnetic wave, comet, and gale, but also applies to other weapons as well. The only person who could properly use these skills with the way weaver currently works is by being able to see the future up to 6 seconds down the road. And a seer I am not, nor do I suppose many of you are either.

Obviously there are times even now when you won’t have certain skills available because you already swapped into the attunement earlier. However, the way it works now you can choose not to swap into that attunement earlier, so you can have it immediately available down the line, while still being able to swap between the other attunements. Current players of meta d/f auramancer in pvp are quite aware of this, where it is a good strategy to not swap into earth attunement until you need obsidian flesh, for fear of being locked out of it when you do need it. You can’t do this with weaver unless you stop attunement swapping all together with your earth paused at 1 and 2 skill slots in the example of obsidian flesh. Clearly there needs to be a way to be able to use reactive skills reactively without pausing all attunement swapping.

My solution is simple. Use the weapon swap button which ele currently doesn’t use to swap between which side of ur weapon bar you want to swap attuenments for. If the left side of the bar is picked things can work the way they currently do with things sliding over and dropping out. But if the right side is picked, keep the left side the same and swap the 4 and 5 skills for the new attunement. This will give weaver the ability to actually react with it’s reactive skills on the right side of its bar.

Let me know what you think

If you were earth/? at some point and you wanted Obsidian Flesh, the next attunement swap you make will put you into ?/earth giving you Obsidian Flesh. It’s going to be a matter of keeping track of what attunement was first before the swap.

To have Obsidian Flesh at the ready, you’ll need to be in earth/? and then swap into something to go ?/earth. Probably water. Here’s hoping the sword skills for water and earth are amazing, and the the dagger air combo skill is able to compete with Shocking Aura.

It is a lot to keep track of. I do like your idea at the end to make use of the weapon swap to toggle that behavior.

correct. but that means you have to sit with earth on the bar waiting for them to burst you. A competent player would just wait till earth isn’t on the bar and they know they have 8 seconds to burst you without worrying about obsidian flesh or that if you just swapped to earth they have 4. Being able to swap earth in on the offhand via selecting the right hand of the weapon bar with weaponswap would avoid that situation.

The Elementalist Dual Dagger Legend – Rest in Peace

(edited by Zuko.7132)

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Posted by: sephiroth.4217

sephiroth.4217

How Is Elementalist going to Might stack on D/D with Weaver?

it’s not gonna be able to. D/D ele still dead, at least as we know it now. Especially with shocking aura going away most of the time. Hopefully a brand new play style develops that fills the same role, or at least a role other than healbot for pvp.

I must have missed this memo about D/D being dead… how does 20s of shocking aura go away? how is Ele locked into healbot? what?

I’m D/D 90% of the time for the past 4-5 years in PvP/WvW?

I’m excited for weaver but I rely on my might stacks on D/D for my build to be effective, I really hope they don’t lower the skill floor ceiling or gut might stack rotations from Ele entirely.

in pvp d/d ele is dead, at least at the higher tiers, and is only run for fun, it doesn’t compete with other meta builds at a viable level. i meant shocking aura on air 3 for dagger will be really hard to gain access to on weaver seeing as you have to swap to air twice. also the shocking aura from overload and from elite will be gone so no more crazy shocking aura uptime, but that’s not d/d specific.

I didn’t realise we had a viable level, it carried me to platinum before I had an extended break and thought that was sufficient enough from a scrubs point of view but I guess not lol.

I get what you mean by Aura now… Weaver might actually gut my D/D build if might stacking can’t work AND the downtime on Aura, I usually rely on Lightning Rod trait
to proc on auras for that extra damage.

I mostly play for the new Free-For-All arena in PvP lobby.
….. And Elementalist.

(edited by sephiroth.4217)

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Posted by: Electro.4173

Electro.4173

Yes, this is a downside to Weaver. And that’s exactly what it’s meant to be. Its the price you’re paying for access to even more skills and the ability to mix attunements . You get even more variety than core Elementalist, but that variety isn’t going to be quite as “hot-swappable” as core Elementalist.

Letting you swap only the right side, while it would solve the “problem” you’re describing, would create an even bigger one. It’d allow you camp in a single attunement for your auto-attack and #2 skill (typically low-cooldown) while cycling through your #3, #4, and #5 skills, essentially letting you keep your best low-cooldown skills active at all times while gaining access to pretty much all your other longer cooldown spells at will. Camp Fire attunement for permanent access to Fireball and Lava Font, while still being able to use all your other powerful staff skills, for instance.

And if you just reversed the “slide” so that you couldn’t camp any attunement permanently, then it just becomes confusing and overcomplicated with stuff like on-attune / active attune traits. With the way it works now, whatever your newest attune is is going to be the one that gets both your on-attune traits and also the one you’re in for purposes of constant attune traits and stuff like glyphs. Want Fire, attune Fire, and you’ll activate all your associated traits and be able to use Fire glyphs. If you had a “reverse slide” button then all of a sudden you’re tapping Fire, getting the Fire trigger effects, but your “active” element becomes whatever you were in before, because now that one is on the left side.

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Posted by: Zuko.7132

Zuko.7132

Yes, this is a downside to Weaver. And that’s exactly what it’s meant to be. Its the price you’re paying for access to even more skills and the ability to mix attunements . You get even more variety than core Elementalist, but that variety isn’t going to be quite as “hot-swappable” as core Elementalist.

Letting you swap only the right side, while it would solve the “problem” you’re describing, would create an even bigger one. It’d allow you camp in a single attunement for your auto-attack and #2 skill (typically low-cooldown) while cycling through your #3, #4, and #5 skills, essentially letting you keep your best low-cooldown skills active at all times while gaining access to pretty much all your other longer cooldown spells at will. Camp Fire attunement for permanent access to Fireball and Lava Font, while still being able to use all your other powerful staff skills, for instance.

And if you just reversed the “slide” so that you couldn’t camp any attunement permanently, then it just becomes confusing and overcomplicated with stuff like on-attune / active attune traits. With the way it works now, whatever your newest attune is is going to be the one that gets both your on-attune traits and also the one you’re in for purposes of constant attune traits and stuff like glyphs. Want Fire, attune Fire, and you’ll activate all your associated traits and be able to use Fire glyphs. If you had a “reverse slide” button then all of a sudden you’re tapping Fire, getting the Fire trigger effects, but your “active” element becomes whatever you were in before, because now that one is on the left side.

Simple solution. Don’t make active attunement the one on the left. Make it the most recently swapped to one. That and reverse the slide. That solves the problem of camping and also fixes the active element problem. No over complication. Thanks for pointing that out though, I didn’t think of that.

The Elementalist Dual Dagger Legend – Rest in Peace

(edited by Zuko.7132)

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Posted by: apharma.3741

apharma.3741

How Is Elementalist going to Might stack on D/D with Weaver?

Start in fire and attune to earth to get earth 1+2 and fire 4+5.
When attunement swap is up cast ring of fire, switch to water.

You now have water 1+2 and earth 4+5, use your 2 earth blasts.

As soon as you can switch to fully water and use frozen burst. If you time it all right you should get 3 blasts inside ring of fire. You might even be able to get a dodge roll in earth into it all for another blast.

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Posted by: Ulion.5476

Ulion.5476

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unravel

Unravel (5s): For a period of time, you forego your weaver training, choosing to fully attune to elements instead. 2 count 25s cd.

So you can pop this stance and solve the issue of you not being about to use a specific skill. Still the last attunement you swapped to will be the first attunement you get fully attuned to.

Been looking into barrier. ~400 barrier from dual strike in a glass cannon build. It scales with healing power with the max barrier you can have being determined by your vitality. Most dual skills have 12-20s cd.

Ele – Tarnished Coast
“Quoth the raven nevermore”
Platinum Scout: 300% MF

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Posted by: CETheLucid.3964

CETheLucid.3964

correct. but that means you have to sit with earth on the bar waiting for them to burst you. A competent player would just wait till earth isn’t on the bar and they know they have 8 seconds to burst you without worrying about obsidian flesh or that if you just swapped to earth they have 4. Being able to swap earth in on the offhand via selecting the right hand of the weapon bar with weaponswap would avoid that situation.

It’s a fairly simple thing to bring earth into your rotation at any point and then attune to any other element to push it to the right side of your bar.

It wouldn’t ruin the Weaver spec. You’d have less wiggle room for the Obsidian- Flesh-Panic-Button is all. It’d still be an option at any rate.

Not to mention potential new combos, skills, and traits that might come about to help you survive those seconds until sweet Obsidian Flesh relief.

Letting you swap only the right side, while it would solve the “problem” you’re describing, would create an even bigger one. It’d allow you camp in a single attunement for your auto-attack and #2 skill (typically low-cooldown) while cycling through your #3, #4, and #5 skills, essentially letting you keep your best low-cooldown skills active at all times while gaining access to pretty much all your other longer cooldown spells at will. Camp Fire attunement for permanent access to Fireball and Lava Font, while still being able to use all your other powerful staff skills, for instance.

It’s still a good idea, just add the standard weapon swap cooldown to the swap.

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Posted by: Abelisk.4527

Abelisk.4527

I don’t see this as an issue at all. If you’re going DPS you’ll probably take FA which will make the 4 and 5 skills basically on-demand.

If you’re a healer or a tanky spec then the 3 second wait (or 2 3/4 sec wait) won’t hurt.

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Posted by: Abelisk.4527

Abelisk.4527

I don’t know how well the Weaver will work, but given the current complication of elements increasing the difficulty by 2 in getting what you need when you want it is going to really make this class very tenuous for multi-toon players. Tracking 32 combinations for each weapon set? Good luck remembering that when you play another profession.

Ele has always been “that” class with a ton of skills.

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Posted by: Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582

I don’t know how well the Weaver will work, but given the current complication of elements increasing the difficulty by 2 in getting what you need when you want it is going to really make this class very tenuous for multi-toon players. Tracking 32 combinations for each weapon set? Good luck remembering that when you play another profession.

Ele has always been “that” class with a ton of skills.

Well, a conjured weapon build would have access to 53 skills now LOL!

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Posted by: sephiroth.4217

sephiroth.4217

How Is Elementalist going to Might stack on D/D with Weaver?

Start in fire and attune to earth to get earth 1+2 and fire 4+5.
When attunement swap is up cast ring of fire, switch to water.

You now have water 1+2 and earth 4+5, use your 2 earth blasts.

As soon as you can switch to fully water and use frozen burst. If you time it all right you should get 3 blasts inside ring of fire. You might even be able to get a dodge roll in earth into it all for another blast.

Thanks for thinking for me, bit different to my own rotation but if it’s still do-able then I’m happy…

I mostly play for the new Free-For-All arena in PvP lobby.
….. And Elementalist.

Weaver will FAIL if this doesn't change!

in Elementalist

Posted by: apharma.3741

apharma.3741

How Is Elementalist going to Might stack on D/D with Weaver?

Start in fire and attune to earth to get earth 1+2 and fire 4+5.
When attunement swap is up cast ring of fire, switch to water.

You now have water 1+2 and earth 4+5, use your 2 earth blasts.

As soon as you can switch to fully water and use frozen burst. If you time it all right you should get 3 blasts inside ring of fire. You might even be able to get a dodge roll in earth into it all for another blast.

Thanks for thinking for me, bit different to my own rotation but if it’s still do-able then I’m happy…

Yeah that’s the thing about the new elite, it will require much more planning and thinking forward over the next 3-6s and the possibilities that can happen during that time frame and the skills you will need.

For a quick cheeky blast you can be water/fire, use ring of fire and attune fully to water to get your blast on 3 again. As far as I can tell it will activate healing ripple again and elemental attunement so you get an extra heal and cleanse possibly.