Guild Wars 2

I really think anet should take a shot at lowering weaver’s global attunement cd to ~2 seconds.

And then allowing unravel to instead remove the cd of attunement swapping for a short period of time.

If anything, with all of the potential combos, weaver would be a MUCH more interesting and enjoyable class if it was balanced around a high APM playstyle.

EDIT: I know there are a few traits that could be abused with no attunement cd but I’m sure some ICDs would fix that easily.

Grimreaper.5370:

I really think anet should take a shot at lowering weaver’s global attunement cd to ~2 seconds.

And then allowing unravel to instead remove the cd of attunement swapping for a short period of time.

If anything, with all of the potential combos, weaver would be a MUCH more interesting and enjoyable class if it was balanced around a high APM playstyle.

Yup, that would make the spec much better – plus the elite would truly make the statement “your enemies will never know what you will pull” true.

:o one utility slot for unravel q.q just so we can access the full offhands…. why not just remove the CD for offhands (but still keep the global CD of other attunements as is)

No.

ANet, please keep the internal cooldown to at least 3 seconds. I love the implementation you did for most of the 2nd expansion specialization where “you lose something to gain something” this makes the specializations feel like is a real trade-off, instead of just pure power creep.

Play video game is not about getting everything you want, it’s about making the optimal decision with the constraints of the system.

voidvector.2780:

No.

ANet, please keep the internal cooldown to at least 3 seconds. I love the implementation you did for most of the 2nd expansion where “you lose something to gain something” this makes the specializations feel like is a real trade-off, instead of just pure power creep.

Play video game is not about getting everything you want, it’s about making the optimal decision with the constraints of the system.

wut

voidvector.2780:

No.

ANet, please keep the internal cooldown to at least 3 seconds. I love the implementation you did for most of the 2nd expansion specialization where “you lose something to gain something” this makes the specializations feel like is a real trade-off, instead of just pure power creep.

Play video game is not about getting everything you want, it’s about making the optimal decision with the constraints of the system.

play core s/f s/d fresh air ele properly and effectively and you will realize you just said nonsense and garbage

Eddbopkins.2630:

play core s/f s/d fresh air ele properly and effectively and you will realize you just said nonsense and garbage

Oh no.. you have to replace one of your burst/DPS utilities with Unravel, i am so sorry to hear that.

Unless you are PvP and running all cantrips, you can afford to replace one of your utility with Unravel. As Weaver, you wouldn’t have access to filler utilities like “Feel the burn” anyway.

You can lower the attunement to 2seconds if you run arcane/air/weaving.

voidvector.2780:

No.

ANet, please keep the internal cooldown to at least 3 seconds. I love the implementation you did for most of the 2nd expansion specialization where “you lose something to gain something” this makes the specializations feel like is a real trade-off, instead of just pure power creep.

Play video game is not about getting everything you want, it’s about making the optimal decision with the constraints of the system.

Have you played the class? You’re not trading one thing for another. As is, weaver offers lower sustain, lower damage and less utility than both core and tempest specs.

Genesis.5169:

You can lower the attunement to 2seconds if you run arcane/air/weaving.

Even with the arcane trait line you’re still at a ~3.5s CD

Yes, I think a two second attunement cooldown (and a slight increase to sword auto speeds) would greatly improve the rhythm of the spec. As it is now we are slow, awkward, a little weak, and have gained almost nothing that really makes up for losing the utility, support, and sustain of core and Tempest.

Someone mentioned this idea of a trade-off. That’s a cool concept to fantasize about, yeah, but in practice it’s really not what we have here with the Weaver’s ultra high-risk:mediocre reward.

I think it just takes getting used to. With the arcane line I think the swapping is fast enough, it’s fine without arcane just more slow. I think we just don’t know the skills well enough by just looking at them and our order of skill rotation will totally change. I think unravel is an awesome skill, shouldn’t be put on f5 though just because it’s so good it’s almost mandatory.

I really like the concept of making Unravel an f5 skill if it were to stay the way it is now. Otherwise it wont be strong enough to take a utility spot in spvp.

The concept of weaver is amazing, but it feels soo sluggish to actually execute.

I’d really like to see the weaver cater to people who like fast combo based combat. I think there are a good amount of people who enjoy that kind of playstyle in general.

I’ve been working extremely hard the past two days to figure out some rotations for the Weaver and I agree both that the cooldown should be there and also that it’s slightly too long. If instead of 3.5 seconds it were 3 seconds when traited through Arcane, I think so much would fit into place much better. As it is, it’s a bit clunky. Going to 2 seconds is perhaps too much of a buff, but just taking .5 seconds off of it would keep the sacrifice of swapping easily in place but make it actually work. Right now it just doesn’t work very well.

I’m not asking to bring global attunement cds to ~2 seconds because I think it will balance the class, I’m asking Anet to BALANCE the class AROUND the idea of having ~2 global attunement CD.

They have to change the sword skill casting times before that, it’s impossible to hit your enemy they just get out of range before you attack.

I agree, the global cooldown has been a major let-down for me, too. Tempest already aimed at reducing attunement swaps and slowing ele play down. Now weaver does the same, but instead of the carrot (overload) we get the stick (global cd). Why does ANet hate fast ele play so much?

In my opinion ANet should scrap the global cd completely and just make single elements go on cd when we swap the main-hand out of them. To balance the elite skill, it would require hitting with an attack of each element once instead of only swapping attunements.

So why not play core ele….? That the point of weaver and the cost of being one long globe cd on atument swaps. Weaver should not be power creep and by asking for significantly lower cd on its one “flaw” or “draw back” (for having many more skills then the core ele all on there own cd and missing a major cd on the atument you just swamped out) your asking for pure power creep.

If you want to be productive about talking about weaver and asking for more effects or balancing the globe cd is NOT the way to go.

Put simply your wasting your time asking for the swaps to be on lower cd if you cant deal with it move on to another class.

I appreciate this sentiment here. Weaver is in a very interesting balance space right now in that everyone seems to be excited about weaver, but no one thinks its op. There are some issues with it I’m going to make another thread for, but my 2 cents on the cooldowns for swapping is this.

At current the cooldowns on your base elemental abilities and fusion abilities are more than enough to prevent no cd swapping from being broken on the base weaver, let alone on a utility skill. This allows for swapping to a particular elemental combination to be a memorized sequence of key presses rather than a constantly shifting status that is too complicated for the AVERAGE player to hold in their head while also trying to pvp and at the same time doing nothing more broken than allowing rapid spell sequencing at the high level.

The only outlets(that I see) for things breaking with no cd are the attunment-swap trigger talents, which could concievably be fine, but would be hurt not at all if they were given an internal cooldown of 1 second to match the normal attunement swap rate on the base elementalist.

Overall, Weaver feels no better than base ele, and worse than Tempest, which is not a bad place to be.

Also notable this class has a high learning curve and exploration space so its possible that once the general public uses it in earnest there will be a single broken strategy that comes out of it, but we won’t find that until later.

Edit: Ok I figured out the issues I had with rotation. I just had to be slightly more observant. sorry about that. Most of what I said still stands, I’m just more behind the idea of a 1 or 2 second cooldown with “unravel” removing the cd, rather than base no cds

You guys played the class for 1 day. That’s barely any experience with the class. There is no point for Anet to balance the game around that.

After wing 1 of raid released, Ele wasn’t even meta until a few months later in because people weren’t accustomed to the raid playing style.

Pre-emptively removing GCD would lead to less interesting meta gameplay.

voidvector.2780:

You guys played the class for 1 day. That’s barely any experience with the class. There is no point for Anet to balance the game around that.

After wing 1 of raid released, Ele wasn’t even meta until a few months later in because people weren’t accustomed to the raid playing style.

Pre-emptively removing GCD would lead to less interesting meta gameplay.

Two 12 hour days now for me So basically one complete day or so xD But yeah I agree that GCD should remain. From what I’ve experienced, if the GCD can be base 3 to 3.5 seconds and 2.5 to 3 seconds with Arcane traited, it should be just about enough to allow for some excellent fluidity without sacrificing the need to plan your skill combos ahead. I’ve been running Arcane in my build the entire time and I can setup some nice combos but if it could just be a tiny bit faster, even just .5 seconds for my build, it would really push Condi/Hybrid Weaver into a solid pvp spot, imo.

Rain.9213:

voidvector.2780:

You guys played the class for 1 day. That’s barely any experience with the class. There is no point for Anet to balance the game around that.

After wing 1 of raid released, Ele wasn’t even meta until a few months later in because people weren’t accustomed to the raid playing style.

Pre-emptively removing GCD would lead to less interesting meta gameplay.

Two 12 hour days now for me So basically one complete day or so xD But yeah I agree that GCD should remain. From what I’ve experienced, if the GCD can be base 3 to 3.5 seconds and 2.5 to 3 seconds with Arcane traited, it should be just about enough to allow for some excellent fluidity without sacrificing the need to plan your skill combos ahead. I’ve been running Arcane in my build the entire time and I can setup some nice combos but if it could just be a tiny bit faster, even just .5 seconds for my build, it would really push Condi/Hybrid Weaver into a solid pvp spot, imo.

Yea, I think ~3 seconds range is a good compromise.

It feels long enough to be something something you need to work around, but can be reduced to ~2.5 sec if traited.

voidvector.2780:

You guys played the class for 1 day. That’s barely any experience with the class. There is no point for Anet to balance the game around that.

After wing 1 of raid released, Ele wasn’t even meta until a few months later in because people weren’t accustomed to the raid playing style.

Pre-emptively removing GCD would lead to less interesting meta gameplay.

You are absolutely right that no one is an expert yet, but because we’ve got so short a window of test to work with we’re giving what feedback we can. We’re certainly aware that everything’s going to be up in the air at release and need time to settle.

You are also right that removing the GCD would make the gameplay less interesting, but one could argue that Weaver is very close to TOO interesting. I did walk back that statement as well. If they were to do it at all, it should be on the utility skill. That said, I’m speaking mostly from a pvp perspective. With PVE it is probably a very different story.

voidvector.2780:

No.

ANet, please keep the internal cooldown to at least 3 seconds. I love the implementation you did for most of the 2nd expansion specialization where “you lose something to gain something” this makes the specializations feel like is a real trade-off, instead of just pure power creep.

Play video game is not about getting everything you want, it’s about making the optimal decision with the constraints of the system.

You clearly never played ele. With weaver as it is now, you don’t “lose something to gain something”. You lose everything that makes ele viable and gain nothing.

Instead of asking for a removal of GCD (which will never happen), we should ask for a 2.5s GCD instead of 4s. Core Ele can rotate through all 4 attunements in 10s. Weaver doesn’t need to be an upgrade, it should just allow Ele to weave all the attunements in 10s.

Sunshine.5014:

Instead of asking for a removal of GCD (which will never happen), we should ask for a 2.5s GCD instead of 4s. Core Ele can rotate through all 4 attunements in 10s. Weaver doesn’t need to be an upgrade, it should just allow Ele to weave all the attunements in 10s.

There shouldn’t be a cooldown on attuning to the same element twice. This is really the biggest problem here.

I need to use burning retreat but I’m in earth/water: I should just have to double tap F1 and then press 4. Not just press F1 and be kittened for 4 seconds.

Xillllix.3485:

Sunshine.5014:

Instead of asking for a removal of GCD (which will never happen), we should ask for a 2.5s GCD instead of 4s. Core Ele can rotate through all 4 attunements in 10s. Weaver doesn’t need to be an upgrade, it should just allow Ele to weave all the attunements in 10s.

There shouldn’t be a cooldown on attuning to the same element twice. This is really the biggest problem here.

I need to use burning retreat but I’m in earth/water: I should just have to double tap F1 and then press 4. Not just press F1 and be kittened for 4 seconds.

Sunshine makes a compelling argument for 2.5s as the time to go through all elements essentially remains the same but weaver means you can only access some of the skills now and the others later. In return you get more frequent access to the ones you need so if you need to hop into say water for a cleanse, you can more often.

Jski.6180:

So why not play core ele….? That the point of weaver and the cost of being one long globe cd on atument swaps. Weaver should not be power creep and by asking for significantly lower cd on its one “flaw” or “draw back” (for having many more skills then the core ele all on there own cd and missing a major cd on the atument you just swamped out) your asking for pure power creep.

If you want to be productive about talking about weaver and asking for more effects or balancing the globe cd is NOT the way to go.

Put simply your wasting your time asking for the swaps to be on lower cd if you cant deal with it move on to another class.

This isn’t about trying to buffing the class but rather designing it around a much faster APM style combat which is what a lot of people have wanted this class’ playstyle to revolve around for a very long time.

Don’t even try to make the arguement to play core ele, you’re sadly mistaken if you think thats even a relevant suggestion to someone trying to play a worth while build in spvp.

Grimreaper.5370:

Jski.6180:

So why not play core ele….? That the point of weaver and the cost of being one long globe cd on atument swaps. Weaver should not be power creep and by asking for significantly lower cd on its one “flaw” or “draw back” (for having many more skills then the core ele all on there own cd and missing a major cd on the atument you just swamped out) your asking for pure power creep.

If you want to be productive about talking about weaver and asking for more effects or balancing the globe cd is NOT the way to go.

Put simply your wasting your time asking for the swaps to be on lower cd if you cant deal with it move on to another class.

This isn’t about trying to buffing the class but rather designing it around a much faster APM style combat which is what a lot of people have wanted this class’ playstyle to revolve around for a very long time.

Don’t even try to make the arguement to play core ele, you’re sadly mistaken if you think thats even a relevant suggestion to someone trying to play a worth while build in spvp.

Scpter core ele in spvp?

Any way your asking for swaps to be on such a low cd that you will be so tankly due to heals and swap effects that you will become unkillable. Ele gets a lot from its swaps both support and attk. To put them on such a low cd with no cd from leaving them (the thing that balances core ele) will brake the weaver class. We do not want to see another 2 months of op play then 3 years of nerfs as we saw with d/d core ele.

If you want to ask for buff ask for skill to do more dmg or buff better or add more barror but the cd on swaps needs to be hands off.

make arcane -20% not this strange -15% :-). And making F5 maybe on 10s CD (affected by arcane) as next swap will fully attune and here we go ….

Wolfric.9380:

make arcane -20% not this strange -15% :-). And making F5 maybe on 10s CD (affected by arcane) as next swap will fully attune and here we go ….

That would work both a means of making weaver faster by taking arcain i guess the cd would be a true 3 sec with a good panic “i giving up being a weaver” button.