Guild Wars 2

Howdy folks. I’ve been reading lots of Tempest reaction threads, and there’s one talking point that I don’t entirely understand, so I wanted to ask about it. I figured it might help flesh out the community discussion a bit, but even if not, it might help me learn more about this game. My only level 80 is an Elementalist. I love playing it, I feel strong, and I don’t know other classes well enough to know what I’m missing. So:

There are a lot of complaints about the Tempest that have merit, or at least could have merit. I haven’t watched the video myself and while I tried to look up the numbers, I didn’t totally understand them. If indeed the skills are just numerically weak, that’s obviously a problem. If the long channel skills aren’t worth the payoff, that’s a problem. If the shouts aren’t as good as cantrips, that’s sad, since they fill similar roles, but I’m not sure how to fix that. Cantrips are just so strong right now that I’d be kind of terrified of the shouts they’d have to make if they wanted to compete. I’m not sure it’s reasonable to expect every elite to get utilities on par with the very strongest ones in the base class.

Anyway, the one thing I don’t understand is the complaint that “tempests don’t add anything new. We already had boons/auras/pbaoe/combo fields/etc.” This is where I betray my ignorance, because I can’t think of anything elementalists don’t already do. We have melee and ranged condition and crit damage, boons, combos, aoe, healing, cleanse, etc., etc. I really don’t know what an elementalist spec could do besides let us do the same stuff in a new way.

So there’s my question: What is the base elementalist lacking? (bonus question: how could either tempest or a hypothetical elite with a different name or weapon provide it?)

Anet hit the nail on the head with us not being able to play frontline atm. The way the implemented it is wrong though. Kodiak in another post suggested changing the 4 skill on warhorn to leaps and having elemental bastion apply 2-3 stacks of stability instead of healing. This way our shouts apply group stability and allows us to be in front fights a bit more. These changes would make it viable imo.

Most people will argue burst, but but rather being nonviable on Ele has more to do with poor base health and lack of things like stealth and spammable CC than the relative crappiness of the scepter.

If you can’t do something with an ele, you need a better imagination.

That said, I find it kittening hard to survive on the frontline and as FrownyClown has already explained: we need more stability!

Boon hate. Though this is being fixed with the tempest.

Tempest hits the elementalist theme, but it seems to offer nothing useful.

The ele has powerful builds, is versile and has top support. The last he needs is more support. The ele lacks build diversity.

So what he needs:
Repair of most autoatacks, especially scepter.
Make glyphs and arcane skills a good option (at least for some builds) to cantrips.
Give a signet and arcane elite that is worth using.
A few traits are weak compared to their counterparts.

This could be done very easy just by changing some numbers a bit.

What the ele lacks is a condition build that doesn´t focus on burn. (expectation is this would be nerfed).

So tempest should have three options to trait in their line.
1.) Trait for condition damage
2.) Trait for overcharge (Burst)
3.) Trait for storms (damage/control)

And definitly not trait for support or sustain!
So we also don´t need a support weapon and shouts :-(.

Its like HoT for ele is a conservative aproach not to make ele better in anny way. At least this is basically good, because power creap is the worst you can do. So throw in something flasy but useless.

Elementalists get more boon manipulation options (something they always lacked) with the Warhorn. We can spread our boons to allies, remove boons from enemies and increase the duration of boons on allies. The power of these effects will be based on their final cooldowns but they are all new to the elementalist.

What Elementalists can’t do and Tempest doesn’t provide is a pure melee option. The Overloads do this, but the Elementalist lacks a melee weapon (other than Lightning Hammer) which means the Overloads won’t combine well with any of the current weapons, including the Warhorn.

The only 2 things i can see are:
1) Stealth
2) A melee weapon with cleaves attack
3) Boon stripping

But in my opinion ele is the class that can do the most stuff and don’t really need more. If ele can do everything what the point in picking other classes.

As a pvp player I always wanted an real DPS viable build.
There are a lot of way for get it. But the warhorn and tempest dont give us.
Channeling a 5sec skill is not that smart for a maradeur/berserker classe with lowest hp and lowest armor. Warhorn don give any mobility or evade or good active defense skill.
Staff is too much slow, and u cant spec DPS with dagger main hand because u cant stay the whole match in melee range as a ele without building difensive.
Was hoping in sword mainhand for this reason.
Now I can only hope for a scpter rewamp, but really anet seems dont remeber scepter ele exisist.
So i will still go air water arcane SF, feeling like i still lack of something other classe have

You can mark off boon stripping since i believe warhorn will be giving ele that ability.

lucadiro.4519:

As a pvp player I always wanted an real DPS viable build.
There are a lot of way for get it. But the warhorn and tempest dont give us.
Channeling a 5sec skill is not that smart for a maradeur/berserker classe with lowest hp and lowest armor. Warhorn don give any mobility or evade or good active defense skill.
Staff is too much slow, and u cant spec DPS with dagger main hand because u cant stay the whole match in melee range as a ele without building difensive.
Was hoping in sword mainhand for this reason.
Now I can only hope for a scpter rewamp, but really anet seems dont remeber scepter ele exisist.
So i will still go air water arcane SF, feeling like i still lack of something other classe have

This mentallity i do not like. I don’t disagree, it’s just not something i see as forcseeable. People that desire a burst spec often mention ele’s inability to stay close and therefore require sustain or mitigating abilities. So the spec is suppose to have burst + some kind of invuln or stability? Do other burst specs like mesmer or thief have these? No, but they have stealth and i dont really see that being a thing for ele. Warriors do but they also have restrictions and rely heavily on innate survivability to pull off bursts which isn’t for ele either. So a normal burst spec isnt going to happen. If a bust spec is to happen, it’d likely be a ranged one aimed at single targets. That’s the only type that i can see without being stupid unbalanced or completely changing ele from its core.

As for scepter, I’ve started to think how awesome it’d be if the boosted the CC on the weapon, making it a stronger element for the class (make it single target CC) to give it a niche for ele.

Demented Yak.6105:

If you can’t do something with an ele, you need a better imagination.

That said, I find it kittening hard to survive on the frontline and as FrownyClown has already explained: we need more stability!

How can you need more stab when you’ve got 2 armor of earths (20 stacks of stab) and 1 trait that allows you to go into earth to gain stab?

Things that Eles lack; A non-gimicky condi build, a decent ranged burst build, mobility (spam-able leaps, dashes, ect), area reflection… I could also list hard CC, since the few we have (that are worth a kitten anyways, looking at YOU gale, you unreliable piece of crap!) are generally on much longer cool down than other classes with similar abilities.

Leo G.4501:

So the spec is suppose to have burst + some kind of invuln or stability? Do other burst specs like mesmer or thief have these? No, but they have stealth and i dont really see that being a thing for ele.

Um… Mesmers DO have invuln actually, both on their one-hand sword (which burst specs will usually carry) and as a class skill, which frees up their utilities for things like their 1200 range blink with a shorter cooldown plus built in stun breaker, compared to our 900 range blink with a longer cooldown and stunbreak removed from it over a year ago!

For the non-gimiky condi build improve fire/earth auto in scepter for this and you get a good one and improve scepter ;-). Both AA do it already but to slow.

TeuthidPurveyor.1970:

Anyway, the one thing I don’t understand is the complaint that “tempests don’t add anything new. We already had boons/auras/pbaoe/combo fields/etc.” This is where I betray my ignorance, because I can’t think of anything elementalists don’t already do. We have melee and ranged condition and crit damage, boons, combos, aoe, healing, cleanse, etc., etc. I really don’t know what an elementalist spec could do besides let us do the same stuff in a new way.

So there’s my question: What is the base elementalist lacking? (bonus question: how could either tempest or a hypothetical elite with a different name or weapon provide it?)

What Elementalists DON’T do:

- Torment
- Confusion
- Poison
- Fear
- Taunt
- Slow
- Aegis
- Quickness
- Resistance
- Converting conditions into boons
- Converting boons into conditions
- A viable zerker burst spec with enough defensive mechanics
- A viable condition spec
- Any viable spec without water+arcane
- A viable scepter spec
- A viable spec without cantrips
- Stealth
- Reflection
- 2-way Shadowsteps
- Portals
- Copying stuff

Just off the top of my head.

There is literally SO MUCH new stuff they could have given Tempest. But they didn’t they just gave us more of what we already have. Boo!

another option to get a viable condi spec.
Elige signet: Passiv: Your attacks do 1s posion on critical hits. Active: create a 8s 360 posion field. (50s CD).

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

TeuthidPurveyor.1970:

Anyway, the one thing I don’t understand is the complaint that “tempests don’t add anything new. We already had boons/auras/pbaoe/combo fields/etc.” This is where I betray my ignorance, because I can’t think of anything elementalists don’t already do. We have melee and ranged condition and crit damage, boons, combos, aoe, healing, cleanse, etc., etc. I really don’t know what an elementalist spec could do besides let us do the same stuff in a new way.

So there’s my question: What is the base elementalist lacking? (bonus question: how could either tempest or a hypothetical elite with a different name or weapon provide it?)

What Elementalists DON’T do:

- Torment
- Confusion
- Poison
- Fear
- Taunt
- Slow
- Aegis
- Quickness
- Resistance
- Converting conditions into boons
- Converting boons into conditions
- A viable zerker burst spec with enough defensive mechanics
- A viable condition spec
- Any viable spec without water+arcane
- A viable scepter spec
- A viable spec without cantrips
- Stealth
- Reflection
- 2-way Shadowsteps
- Portals
- Copying stuff

Just off the top of my head.

There is literally SO MUCH new stuff they could have given Tempest. But they didn’t they just gave us more of what we already have. Boo!

You can scrap 50% of that list because it includes other professions main/signature gimmicks, which should NEVER be given to a different profession. Ever.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

TeuthidPurveyor.1970:

Anyway, the one thing I don’t understand is the complaint that “tempests don’t add anything new. We already had boons/auras/pbaoe/combo fields/etc.” This is where I betray my ignorance, because I can’t think of anything elementalists don’t already do. We have melee and ranged condition and crit damage, boons, combos, aoe, healing, cleanse, etc., etc. I really don’t know what an elementalist spec could do besides let us do the same stuff in a new way.

So there’s my question: What is the base elementalist lacking? (bonus question: how could either tempest or a hypothetical elite with a different name or weapon provide it?)

What Elementalists DON’T do:

- Torment
- Confusion
- Poison
- Fear
- Taunt
- Slow
- Aegis
- Quickness
- Resistance
- Converting conditions into boons
- Converting boons into conditions
- A viable zerker burst spec with enough defensive mechanics
- A viable condition spec
- Any viable spec without water+arcane
- A viable scepter spec
- A viable spec without cantrips
- Stealth
- Reflection
- 2-way Shadowsteps
- Portals
- Copying stuff

Just off the top of my head.

There is literally SO MUCH new stuff they could have given Tempest. But they didn’t they just gave us more of what we already have. Boo!

The only way to get some of that is to sacrifice access to the plethora of other stuff ele has access to such as a plethora of instant skills, heals and condi removal on every weapon, CC and/or damage mitigation on every weapon, condies on every weapon, some of the most potent AoE in the game, about 75% of all boons on demand…I’m sure there are a lot more but I’m hungry and tired T_T

Leo G.4501:

You can mark off boon stripping since i believe warhorn will be giving ele that ability.

lucadiro.4519:

As a pvp player I always wanted an real DPS viable build.
There are a lot of way for get it. But the warhorn and tempest dont give us.
Channeling a 5sec skill is not that smart for a maradeur/berserker classe with lowest hp and lowest armor. Warhorn don give any mobility or evade or good active defense skill.
Staff is too much slow, and u cant spec DPS with dagger main hand because u cant stay the whole match in melee range as a ele without building difensive.
Was hoping in sword mainhand for this reason.
Now I can only hope for a scpter rewamp, but really anet seems dont remeber scepter ele exisist.
So i will still go air water arcane SF, feeling like i still lack of something other classe have

This mentallity i do not like. I don’t disagree, it’s just not something i see as forcseeable. People that desire a burst spec often mention ele’s inability to stay close and therefore require sustain or mitigating abilities. So the spec is suppose to have burst + some kind of invuln or stability? Do other burst specs like mesmer or thief have these? No, but they have stealth and i dont really see that being a thing for ele. Warriors do but they also have restrictions and rely heavily on innate survivability to pull off bursts which isn’t for ele either. So a normal burst spec isnt going to happen. If a bust spec is to happen, it’d likely be a ranged one aimed at single targets. That’s the only type that i can see without being stupid unbalanced or completely changing ele from its core.

As for scepter, I’ve started to think how awesome it’d be if the boosted the CC on the weapon, making it a stronger element for the class (make it single target CC) to give it a niche for ele.

Mesmer can have stab, if traited, from shatters and they have 2 invulnerability. We can actually have invulnerability and stab in sf with armor of earth (i really prefere mist form for safe stomp/ress or avoid burst) and this don help us a lot. As a lowest hp pool and armor stab dont change nothing, i prefere slot signet of air for a shott breack stun and aoe blind or clesing fire to armor of earth, while the others slots are LF and mist form.
We need to be a viable DPS some weapon skill that do something, a cc, like u said, can be helpfull on scepter. But i’m totally for an evading skill more of a cc. Btw i think too that ele DPS will not be a thing because it should be implemented in some way in this élite specialization. So i dont have some more hopes about it.

But really… Overloading an element and be locked out of it IS a “complete changing ele from is core” so i dont see any reason for not implement something that can help DPS ele to come out.

The most immediate thoughts come to mind:

Dedicated Condition spec/build. Right now our conditions are thematically spread around all our other attunements (IE: Fire = Burn, Earth = Bleed, etc). They could have removed some of the burst from Scepter in favor of additional conditions to make it into a condition weapon and then give us strong Conditions on an offhand.

Dedicated Burst build. With Fresh Air and Bolt to the Heart both at GM it pretty much destroyed the last burst build we had as an Elementalist. They could have again reworked Scepter as part of the Specialization update and then create a new bursty Specialization with an offhand to go with Scepter as a pair.

Mobility build. As the class with the lowest HP/Armor by default we’re primed for thief style mechanics. Even if the damage is limited due to access to base healing style abilities and boon access (something thieves lack) their mobility and even possibly stealth could have easily been incorporated into the character.

Hell even the front line idea isn’t bad, but they need it do it right. They simply didn’t give the right tools for the front line. The Guardian Stability bottleneck is real and there’s already plenty of other classes looking to rely on Guardians (Warriors, Necros) for stability. With proper leaps (600m range, 8-15s cool downs) and an ability to bring group stability (Auras) it is possible to make it viable. However if we’re given the same general tool set and told to play on the Front Line that just isn’t going to happen.

Off the top of my head:

1. Fear
2. Taunt
3. Aegis
4. Quickness
5. Poison
6. Confusion
7. Lifestealing/siphon
8. Stealth

lucadiro.4519:

snip…. stuff from all of you about making scepter less crappy and viable burst blah blah blah

Lets talk about mesmers some more so we can decide what constitutes a “viable”, if not optimal burst build. Mesmers have two builds that let them survive and kill everything in their way very easily, in a zerker amulet with only their base HP pool. Now this is important. The mesmer has nearly 16K HP with no vitality investment, meaning that its not as imperative for them to use a marauder amulet like a fresh air elementalist or medi guardian would. Mesmers also really don’t need stability (even if BD gives them amazing access to it) in order to do this role well.

Now Build No. 1- PU Shatter

A stealth based build. Typically 2 sources of stealth are brought on a 30 second cooldown each, and they last for 6 seconds each. The stealth gives boons, with aegis/protection being the most important. This build lets you survive really well and set up GS-mind wrack bursts from stealth. You never have to worry about your zerk amulet if you manage your stealths right. It has no condi removal at all, meaning it has to rely on strong initial bursts (from stealth) to win against cele/condi builds. Its actually more ofa niche pick in tournaments right now compared to the secondbuild.

Build No. 2-Mantra Shatter (aka the most overpowered thing in the game right now)

This build doesn’t even need stealth to survive with a zerker amulet. The reason being, is that the build has spammable CC, much like a thieve’s headshot, but even more simple due to counfounding suggestions conversion of the mantra daze into a stun nearly every time. This means that the mesmer will always be able to land shatters if their target has no stability (and net a 30% damage boost OR give them weakness and put their recharge on a 15 sec CD during their burst). Additionally restorative mantras, 3 charges for the mantra heal, and shattered conditions give them amazing self/group healing and condition removal while having 0 healing power. This build is basically immune to condis and should never die unless you’re horrible or fighting an amazing team. Restorative mantras heals more than a swap to water attunment when the mesmer doesn’t even have healing power, which is a little over the top. Ironically the mantra charge times are as long as Overload Water, but they never really fear being interrupted since they have staff to kite and their channel effect isn’t wasted if they go out of melee range.

Also mesmer also has a few more advantages over elementalist besides either stealth, or spammable interrupts that also sync well with sustain. Mesmer has tons of blind, but ele can as well with scepter skills and blinding ashes. Theres the higher health pool , the fact that mesmer has portal to dominate rotations on maps, and the fact that elites like moa and time warp are immensely powerful and useful.

Mesmer GS is better than Ele scepter, but the reason for that is NOT autoattacks. Improving autoattacks wouldn’t help the scepter on a burst build in any real way besides giving them more crit procs for fresh air. The mesmer GS simply has easy to land burst skills. The GS phantasm hits for almost 6K against light targets with phantasmal strenght/fury, and mirror blade does excelent burst and vuln/mightstacking (vuln trait damage mod) as well, while both of those skills spawn illusions next to the target that can be shattered on the target instantly. Mind Stab is also easy to land (especially with mantras) as well. Ele scepter has good smaller burst skills in air, but the fire skills, which are needed to land most kills, are way too hard to land, which includes both DT and pheonix. Stealth and the CC are also really helpful in landing that burst, as well as surviving.

Anyway the point of this post was so that you guys would realize what makes a viable burst spec. And no, I don’t think a sword with melee chain autos or a couple of blocks and evades would give that to ele. A way to reliably land burst is what is needed, especially since those things on mesmer help them to survive.

Shiki.7148:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

TeuthidPurveyor.1970:

Anyway, the one thing I don’t understand is the complaint that “tempests don’t add anything new. We already had boons/auras/pbaoe/combo fields/etc.” This is where I betray my ignorance, because I can’t think of anything elementalists don’t already do. We have melee and ranged condition and crit damage, boons, combos, aoe, healing, cleanse, etc., etc. I really don’t know what an elementalist spec could do besides let us do the same stuff in a new way.

So there’s my question: What is the base elementalist lacking? (bonus question: how could either tempest or a hypothetical elite with a different name or weapon provide it?)

What Elementalists DON’T do:

- Torment
- Confusion
- Poison
- Fear
- Taunt
- Slow
- Aegis
- Quickness
- Resistance
- Converting conditions into boons
- Converting boons into conditions
- A viable zerker burst spec with enough defensive mechanics
- A viable condition spec
- Any viable spec without water+arcane
- A viable scepter spec
- A viable spec without cantrips
- Stealth
- Reflection
- 2-way Shadowsteps
- Portals
- Copying stuff

Just off the top of my head.

There is literally SO MUCH new stuff they could have given Tempest. But they didn’t they just gave us more of what we already have. Boo!

You can scrap 50% of that list because it includes other professions main/signature gimmicks, which should NEVER be given to a different profession. Ever.

Are you actually playing the game? ^^ All the buffs/Conditions are available on numerous professions (Torment Necro and Thief / Confusion Mesmer and Warrior / Poison Thief, Necro, Ranger etc / Fear Necro, Warrior, Thief etc / Taunt Revenant and Ranger / Slow Mesmer and Revenant / Aegis Mesmer and Guard / Quickness Mesmer and Guard / Resistance Revenant and Warrior… Do I have to continue?). Mechanics like boon stripping? Not only Necro stuff, Mesmer has it too. Viable different specs? That’s a given! Every class has at least 2 builds right now while Ele basically is always Auramancer with modifications.

The only thing you can strike there is the Portals point as that’s Mesmer only (Except if you have a watchwork portal device recipie :p)

I guess you should change that statement about never ever giving class gimmicks to others :p

My big complains about what the class lacks:

- Eles lack a ranged single target DPS option (it should be scepter, but it isn’t)
- Eles lack condition dmg options: They are directly related to our stances (burning to fire / bleeding to earth) which is a limitation itself and a problematic one if we think about the overload mechanic of the tempest. (When you overload you lost 1 of the only 2 ways you have to inflict a condition) + the bleeding the class has is very limited compared to the burning (and that will be nerfed)
- Limited stability complicates things for being a front liner and makes me wonder if the overloads will be viable in pvp.

PS: I’m surprised to read people expecting things like stealth, fear, taunt etc… that are that are things that define other professions gameplay and shouldn’t be given so easily.

nearlight.3064:

Lets talk about mesmers some more so we can decide what constitutes a “viable”, if not optimal burst build. Mesmers have two builds that let them survive and kill everything in their way very easily, in a zerker amulet with only their base HP pool. Now this is important. The mesmer has nearly 16K HP with no vitality investment, meaning that its not as imperative for them to use a marauder amulet like a fresh air elementalist or medi guardian would. Mesmers also really don’t need stability (even if BD gives them amazing access to it) in order to do this role well.

Now Build No. 1- PU Shatter

A stealth based build. Typically 2 sources of stealth are brought on a 30 second cooldown each, and they last for 6 seconds each. The stealth gives boons, with aegis/protection being the most important. This build lets you survive really well and set up GS-mind wrack bursts from stealth. You never have to worry about your zerk amulet if you manage your stealths right. It has no condi removal at all, meaning it has to rely on strong initial bursts (from stealth) to win against cele/condi builds. Its actually more ofa niche pick in tournaments right now compared to the secondbuild.

Build No. 2-Mantra Shatter (aka the most overpowered thing in the game right now)

This build doesn’t even need stealth to survive with a zerker amulet. The reason being, is that the build has spammable CC, much like a thieve’s headshot, but even more simple due to counfounding suggestions conversion of the mantra daze into a stun nearly every time. This means that the mesmer will always be able to land shatters if their target has no stability (and net a 30% damage boost OR give them weakness and put their recharge on a 15 sec CD during their burst). Additionally restorative mantras, 3 charges for the mantra heal, and shattered conditions give them amazing self/group healing and condition removal while having 0 healing power. This build is basically immune to condis and should never die unless you’re horrible or fighting an amazing team. Restorative mantras heals more than a swap to water attunment when the mesmer doesn’t even have healing power, which is a little over the top. Ironically the mantra charge times are as long as Overload Water, but they never really fear being interrupted since they have staff to kite and their channel effect isn’t wasted if they go out of melee range.

Also mesmer also has a few more advantages over elementalist besides either stealth, or spammable interrupts that also sync well with sustain. Mesmer has tons of blind, but ele can as well with scepter skills and blinding ashes. Theres the higher health pool , the fact that mesmer has portal to dominate rotations on maps, and the fact that elites like moa and time warp are immensely powerful and useful.

Mesmer GS is better than Ele scepter, but the reason for that is NOT autoattacks. Improving autoattacks wouldn’t help the scepter on a burst build in any real way besides giving them more crit procs for fresh air. The mesmer GS simply has easy to land burst skills. The GS phantasm hits for almost 6K against light targets with phantasmal strenght/fury, and mirror blade does excelent burst and vuln/mightstacking (vuln trait damage mod) as well, while both of those skills spawn illusions next to the target that can be shattered on the target instantly. Mind Stab is also easy to land (especially with mantras) as well. Ele scepter has good smaller burst skills in air, but the fire skills, which are needed to land most kills, are way too hard to land, which includes both DT and pheonix. Stealth and the CC are also really helpful in landing that burst, as well as surviving.

Anyway the point of this post was so that you guys would realize what makes a viable burst spec. And no, I don’t think a sword with melee chain autos or a couple of blocks and evades would give that to ele. A way to reliably land burst is what is needed, especially since those things on mesmer help them to survive.

I said we need a wepon skill improvement if we want to be a viable dps build i never talking about autoattack that yes, they need to be toned up a lot. btw i know well the mesmer class and builds and i know they will be always a better choose as a dps in a tpvp match instead of a ele, and this is not for the description u made, because before the patch they were much more squiscy and weak, but always a better choose for a team then us. The fact is they are better because they have portal, that is a gamechanging skill.
Ele dps will never be at pair with mesmer for this reason, and thief will be better too cuz their mobility and stealth. But maybe we can a good choose at pair with a mediguard, a power ranger or a power necro, because u know, actually sf ele is worst than them.
Idk the point of your post, really dont understand it, and i dont understand why i cant ask for a scepter revamp or for a viable dps build.

Akuni.8604:

Shiki.7148:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

TeuthidPurveyor.1970:

Anyway, the one thing I don’t understand is the complaint that “tempests don’t add anything new. We already had boons/auras/pbaoe/combo fields/etc.” This is where I betray my ignorance, because I can’t think of anything elementalists don’t already do. We have melee and ranged condition and crit damage, boons, combos, aoe, healing, cleanse, etc., etc. I really don’t know what an elementalist spec could do besides let us do the same stuff in a new way.

So there’s my question: What is the base elementalist lacking? (bonus question: how could either tempest or a hypothetical elite with a different name or weapon provide it?)

What Elementalists DON’T do:

- Torment
- Confusion
- Poison
- Fear
- Taunt
- Slow
- Aegis
- Quickness
- Resistance
- Converting conditions into boons
- Converting boons into conditions
- A viable zerker burst spec with enough defensive mechanics
- A viable condition spec
- Any viable spec without water+arcane
- A viable scepter spec
- A viable spec without cantrips
- Stealth
- Reflection
- 2-way Shadowsteps
- Portals
- Copying stuff

Just off the top of my head.

There is literally SO MUCH new stuff they could have given Tempest. But they didn’t they just gave us more of what we already have. Boo!

You can scrap 50% of that list because it includes other professions main/signature gimmicks, which should NEVER be given to a different profession. Ever.

Are you actually playing the game? ^^ All the buffs/Conditions are available on numerous professions (Torment Necro and Thief / Confusion Mesmer and Warrior / Poison Thief, Necro, Ranger etc / Fear Necro, Warrior, Thief etc / Taunt Revenant and Ranger / Slow Mesmer and Revenant / Aegis Mesmer and Guard / Quickness Mesmer and Guard / Resistance Revenant and Warrior… Do I have to continue?). Mechanics like boon stripping? Not only Necro stuff, Mesmer has it too. Viable different specs? That’s a given! Every class has at least 2 builds right now while Ele basically is always Auramancer with modifications.

The only thing you can strike there is the Portals point as that’s Mesmer only (Except if you have a watchwork portal device recipie :p)

I guess you should change that statement about never ever giving class gimmicks to others :p

Right back at ya. Corrupting condis is a Necro-only mechanic. Aegis is a Guardian-mechanic. Portal is a Mesmer-only mechanic. Taunt (so far) is Revenant only. Alacrity was explicitly stated it will be basically only on Chronomancer.

@lucadrio

My point was simply stating, through comparison that a scepter rework is far from the only thing needed for a viable burst Ele spec.

Shiki.7148:

Akuni.8604:

Shiki.7148:

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

TeuthidPurveyor.1970:

Anyway, the one thing I don’t understand is the complaint that “tempests don’t add anything new. We already had boons/auras/pbaoe/combo fields/etc.” This is where I betray my ignorance, because I can’t think of anything elementalists don’t already do. We have melee and ranged condition and crit damage, boons, combos, aoe, healing, cleanse, etc., etc. I really don’t know what an elementalist spec could do besides let us do the same stuff in a new way.

So there’s my question: What is the base elementalist lacking? (bonus question: how could either tempest or a hypothetical elite with a different name or weapon provide it?)

What Elementalists DON’T do:

- Torment
- Confusion
- Poison
- Fear
- Taunt
- Slow
- Aegis
- Quickness
- Resistance
- Converting conditions into boons
- Converting boons into conditions
- A viable zerker burst spec with enough defensive mechanics
- A viable condition spec
- Any viable spec without water+arcane
- A viable scepter spec
- A viable spec without cantrips
- Stealth
- Reflection
- 2-way Shadowsteps
- Portals
- Copying stuff

Just off the top of my head.

There is literally SO MUCH new stuff they could have given Tempest. But they didn’t they just gave us more of what we already have. Boo!

You can scrap 50% of that list because it includes other professions main/signature gimmicks, which should NEVER be given to a different profession. Ever.

Are you actually playing the game? ^^ All the buffs/Conditions are available on numerous professions (Torment Necro and Thief / Confusion Mesmer and Warrior / Poison Thief, Necro, Ranger etc / Fear Necro, Warrior, Thief etc / Taunt Revenant and Ranger / Slow Mesmer and Revenant / Aegis Mesmer and Guard / Quickness Mesmer and Guard / Resistance Revenant and Warrior… Do I have to continue?). Mechanics like boon stripping? Not only Necro stuff, Mesmer has it too. Viable different specs? That’s a given! Every class has at least 2 builds right now while Ele basically is always Auramancer with modifications.

The only thing you can strike there is the Portals point as that’s Mesmer only (Except if you have a watchwork portal device recipie :p)

I guess you should change that statement about never ever giving class gimmicks to others :p

Right back at ya. Corrupting condis is a Necro-only mechanic. Aegis is a Guardian-mechanic. Portal is a Mesmer-only mechanic. Taunt (so far) is Revenant only. Alacrity was explicitly stated it will be basically only on Chronomancer.

Mesmers have aegis, both from weapon skills and traits (Staff and PU among others). Rangers have Taunt. What’s your point again?

As others have noted, ele is lacking a viable burst spec in high-level play. The main culprits are:

(1) The lack of sustained damage between each burst (Scepter Air1+2 barely outdamages healing signet on a maurauder ele vs. valk war). This means that if you don’t 100-0 the guy, you might as well leave. Mesmers and thieves can continue to add on substantial pressure.

(2) Lack of disengage for survivability. Mesmers and thieves have this via blinks and stealth. Giving ele a large number of blinks and stealths obviously would not fit the theme of the class. However, you could instead give them higher mobility (like the old RtL, or doing more with superspeed).

Generate quickness. Get viable and dynamic specializations.