Guild Wars 2

I want to back things up a bit. Way back. Back before launch, before the betas, back to when the Guild Wars 2 elementalist was nothing but a concept to us. You there? Okay. So here’s my question.

What did you want it to be?

We see plenty of talking back and forth regarding what the elementalist is and what people expect of it. Usually I hear things like “it’s the mage archetype” and a response to the effect of “then this isn’t the class for you.” Constant accusations of L2P issues, despite equally frequent acknowledgement of simple concepts (dodging, attunement swapping/etc.) as necessities. These are all questions that address the reality of the elmentalist. But ultimately, is this what people wanted?

I like lightning, I think it’s cool. The idea of an element-specific spellcaster is appealing to me. The use of daggers as a magical instrument also sounded extremely cool. Considering Guild Wars, it made sense that what we could expect was a caster that could specialize in elements, and each element offered something different, or make use of all of them at once.

What we have now is a profession which requires the use of all four elements to be effective. All elementalist players probably learned this lesson around level 40 if not earlier. This is mostly a product of weak individual skills and longer-than-average cooldowns. I accept this. Everyone who plays an elementalist consistently has to accept this. However, is this what everyone wanted? Ignoring whether or not the elementalist is underpowered or not, how effective it can be, or anything else, are people happy with what it is?

I bring this up because I want to understand what players wanted from the elementalist. For the sake of this discussion, please forget for a moment the reality of the elementalist, and share what you wanted from the profession.

It doesn’t matter what people “want” from the profession, Ele’s are what Arena Net makes them, if people don’t like it I suggest they play something else.

i think Loic point is we really need some DEV feedback here its been kinda empty on these forums lately and that goes for alot of the class forums i think he is trying to ask anet are they even planning on fixing these certain bugs in a big patch or will we be kept in the dark constantly untill last notice.

We as a community need something to go off of or we all just freak out and just quit the class we are trying to bare with untill it is better. He is basically trying to say give us some HOPE that things will actually begin to change for elementalist cuz i too feel like sometimes we are forced to go into a certain build or into a certain weapon set to even be effective at certain aspecs of the game.

I really wanted a cross between the Pyro, Storm Caller and Elementalist from Rift, using different elements to intensify the effects of the others. Like getting a target wet and then electrocuting them for big damage. Using cold to freeze targets and earth projectiles to shatter them.

It’s the type of thing I envisioned when they talked about combos, but the actual combos are a bit of a let down. It’s not that they lack effectiveness, it’s just the lack of direct correlation between the elements and the effects produced.

I did get the concert pianist requirement from Storm Caller though, so that’s something.

*the preceding is not a complaint about the elementalist class as is, only disappointment in what more could have been.

Lordryux.9785:

i think Loic point is we really need some DEV feedback here its been kinda empty on these forums lately and that goes for alot of the class forums i think he is trying to ask anet are they even planning on fixing these certain bugs in a big patch or will we be kept in the dark constantly untill last notice.

We as a community need something to go off of or we all just freak out and just quit the class we are trying to bare with untill it is better. He is basically trying to say give us some HOPE that things will actually begin to change for elementalist cuz i too feel like sometimes we are forced to go into a certain build or into a certain weapon set to even be effective at certain aspecs of the game.

Well I must be the only player in the entire game who is happy with their Ele. Sure it would be nice to have some things fixed, but I don’t think the profession is anywhere near as broken as the entire community makes it out to be and it frustrates the crap out of me.

I love the Elementalist. I think ArenaNet has done an amazing job on it.

i was not looking at classes but game mechanics.
I expected that all the classes would be pretty much the same as any other game and id be able to play for a month or two.

honestly that is what i expected. I was pleasantly surprised to find a different take on most class concepts and enjoyable PVE. enjoyable PvE was what really blew me away.

I was at the point that i thought the game was too easy when i started playing an ele. after playing the other classes i knew i had no idea what to expect. And i was pretty much right.

the ele is so deep.

I wanted a class that could fill multiple different roles with the same spec, a class with multiple abilities that support fast and mobile playstyle instead of slower methodical.
A class that can roam and get away from fights and has important role in a organised wvw raid.

And I got all of that. NICE!

One thing lacked tho, I wanted to be able to freely use different kind of specs. I guess that has happened, but just from personal reasons I’ve always sticked with heavy water and arcane. And that ofc can be “problem” for all classes because balancing not that easy.

If elementalist had just 2 attunuments, or in some way limited to mostly using one attunument only, I would totally hate to play elementalist.

Loco.4561:

Lordryux.9785:

i think Loic point is we really need some DEV feedback here its been kinda empty on these forums lately and that goes for alot of the class forums i think he is trying to ask anet are they even planning on fixing these certain bugs in a big patch or will we be kept in the dark constantly untill last notice.

We as a community need something to go off of or we all just freak out and just quit the class we are trying to bare with untill it is better. He is basically trying to say give us some HOPE that things will actually begin to change for elementalist cuz i too feel like sometimes we are forced to go into a certain build or into a certain weapon set to even be effective at certain aspecs of the game.

Well I must be the only player in the entire game who is happy with their Ele. Sure it would be nice to have some things fixed, but I don’t think the profession is anywhere near as broken as the entire community makes it out to be and it frustrates the crap out of me.

Never said it was broken in any way shape or form I love the hell out of my ele aswell and never give it up wat i mean is thier are some things that need sum serious improvement and fixing I agree alot of people complain we are to squishy so on and so on thats really not the case its just everytime we look forward to updates happening instead we get nerfs and no bug fixes at all.

Mechanically ele is exactly what I want. It just needs numbers tweaking (a viable damage spec) and a whole frakking lot of bugfixing.

Honestly what I assumed the elementalist would be was a caster that, through traiting, focused on a specific element more strongly than the rest while using the other three elements to support and enhance the primary. Which is largely how I play. Fire is my “Resting” element. The element I’m in when I’m farming, sitting in towns, and generally my go to element in fights. However this is not optimal without a very specific fire build that is widely considered non-viable.

I was and am a bit disappointed that I have to use all four elements and switch attunements almost as soon as I enter one just to get off enough abilities to compete with other classes using the same five skills. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy the playstyle and I love my elementalist. I was just hoping for a more specialized approach. Or at least the option to specialize.

I mean come on… We pick a primary element at the very start of the game in character creator! That was quite misleading.

I like the way the elementalist is build. Fire for strength/attack/DPS, Air for movement, Water for healing and support, and Earth for slowing enemies down and defense.

I think people want all of the elements to be as strong as each other, however the reason for having these elements is that they need to be used together to have the effect and reason to use an elementalist – otherwise its all about spamming an attack that looks different.

Elementalists are multi-faceted spellcasters that channel elemental forces, making fire, air, earth, and water do their bidding. What they lack in physical toughness, they make up in versatility and the ability to inflict massive damage in a single attack.

After reading that, one thing popped into my mind: Avatar! (the cartoon, not the smurf-alien crossover) So I pictured the elementalist cauterizing his enemies with big blasts of fire and lava, flash freezing them with icy magic, evading enemy attacks with the swiftness of the wind while unleashing some good old fashioned electric wrath. And if everything failed, the elementalist would’ve barricaded himself behind some walls of solid rock or burried the enemy alive.

As it turned out, much of what I expected became true… just in less spectacular ways. Also, less devastating. If someone is a master of the elements, there are SO many ways of making use of it. The way the elementalist is right now, it feels like being an apprentice in elemental magic, certainly not like a master.

Loic.4367:

I want to back things up a bit. Way back. Back before launch, before the betas, back to when the Guild Wars 2 elementalist was nothing but a concept to us. You there? Okay. So here’s my question.

What did you want it to be?

We see plenty of talking back and forth regarding what the elementalist is and what people expect of it. Usually I hear things like “it’s the mage archetype” and a response to the effect of “then this isn’t the class for you.” Constant accusations of L2P issues, despite equally frequent acknowledgement of simple concepts (dodging, attunement swapping/etc.) as necessities. These are all questions that address the reality of the elmentalist. But ultimately, is this what people wanted?

I like lightning, I think it’s cool. The idea of an element-specific spellcaster is appealing to me. The use of daggers as a magical instrument also sounded extremely cool. Considering Guild Wars, it made sense that what we could expect was a caster that could specialize in elements, and each element offered something different, or make use of all of them at once.

What we have now is a profession which requires the use of all four elements to be effective. All elementalist players probably learned this lesson around level 40 if not earlier. This is mostly a product of weak individual skills and longer-than-average cooldowns. I accept this. Everyone who plays an elementalist consistently has to accept this. However, is this what everyone wanted? Ignoring whether or not the elementalist is underpowered or not, how effective it can be, or anything else, are people happy with what it is?

I bring this up because I want to understand what players wanted from the elementalist. For the sake of this discussion, please forget for a moment the reality of the elementalist, and share what you wanted from the profession.

Yes, Yes I am very very happy with Elementalist.
I love this class soo freakin Much!
It’s exactly what I expected. A Magic Class that kicks kitten while on the move+Dodge.

I havnt played any mmorpgs that made a Mage type class this fun and engaging.
I would like to see what other skills Arenanet might give us for the future.

In Guild Wars 1, I always played earth because its spells were so versatile.

So yeah, the new Elementalist turned out pretty well for me.

Caffynated.5713:

I really wanted a cross between the Pyro, Storm Caller and Elementalist from Rift, using different elements to intensify the effects of the others. Like getting a target wet and then electrocuting them for big damage. Using cold to freeze targets and earth projectiles to shatter them.

It’s the type of thing I envisioned when they talked about combos, but the actual combos are a bit of a let down. It’s not that they lack effectiveness, it’s just the lack of direct correlation between the elements and the effects produced.

I did get the concert pianist requirement from Storm Caller though, so that’s something.

*the preceding is not a complaint about the elementalist class as is, only disappointment in what more could have been.

I really do think this idea sounds awesome. The synergy between the elements sounds very fun and challenging to play. I do like the idea of the elementalist Anet put into play but I really do believe they could have done so much more with it.

As for the avatar: the last airbender idea, wouldn’t it be great if Air 4 for dd or staff was replaced with an air scooter that aang rides around in? I’d have so much fun riding that around and while chucking fireballs.

Intigo.1653:

I love the Elementalist. I think ArenaNet has done an amazing job on it.

Seconded.

To the OP, I really had no clue what I wanted when I picked Ele…I just wanted to be a wizard. What I got was an extremely badkitten mobile spellslinger, that flits around the battlefield wreaking PBAoE chaos and crowd control upon their enemies, and then escapes into a ball of lightning before the enemies can bring him down. Oh and I also have to option to stand in the back and be artillery if I want. I honestly couldn’t be happier with it.

I also seriously don’t understand the complaints about having to use “all 4” elements. This is kind of how I see players that complain about that:

Game Dev: Hey guys, here is a class that can switch between all four elements dynamically in combat, giving it great flexibility in any situation!

Player: Sweet! Imma pick air.

Game Dev: But…you can switch betwe….

Player: I said AIR darnit! Okay let’s see here….WTF! This warrior did more damage than I did spamming lightning whip! Broken class! Rabble! Rabble!

To Creslin.

It’s a matter of style, good sir. People who make their characters often go in with a specific style they want to bring to life, thus they pick the profession that they feel best fits the theme they have in mind and then create their build to better reflect it. I wanted to have a higher focus on fire, the other fellow up there wanted to be of the more lightningy persuasion.

It’s also a matter of diversity. By picking fire my playstyle would be fundamentally different than lightning man. I’d perhaps come out with explosions of fire that focuses more on raw AoE damage while he might come in with a flash of lightning and strike down enemies for massive single target damage. And as we fight in our respective elements we could stance dance to water or earth when we’re in need of healing or active defense. Or an earth user could gear himself toward being more of a tanky role and wearing the enemy down with condition damage and high defense, switching to air for a sudden surge of lightning for a surprise spike burst or fire to throw down a burning AoE to but a little more stress on the enemy. Or a water elementalist could sit in water attunement providing much needed boons and support to his team, switching to earth for emergency defense when things get too close or fire to throw down a damaging field to make enemies back off before they return to their watery ways.

Instead every ele more or less plays the same way. Whether you’re a bunker ele, a support ele, or a damage ele you’re still going to be cycling attunements and blowing all your hard hitting cooldowns quickly in pvp in much the same way as ever. While a bunker and damage ele are fundamentally different in their goals, they still play more or less similarly. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy the playstyle and have become rather fond of the stance dancing mechanic. More than I thought I would. But I don’t think hoping for a little more specialization means I’m doing it wrong.

It’s more of a case of:

Game Dev: Hey guys, here is a class that you must switch between all four elements dynamically in combat, giving it flexibility in any situation!

Player: Sweet! Imma pick ai- Wait, what do you mean HAVE to?

Game Dev: Well… If you don’t constantly switch you’ll be vastly under performing and die a lot.

Player: Oh… Well… Okay. This is still fun! But hey, why is that warrior only using his greatsword? Why doesn’t he have to switch weapons every five seconds to remain viable? Broken class! Rabble! Rabble!

Loco.4561:

It doesn’t matter what people “want” from the profession, Ele’s are what Arena Net makes them, if people don’t like it I suggest they play something else.

This is like a chef saying it doesn’t matter what his food tastes like.

All art and design has an audience, if the audience isn’t satisfied, it’s your fault not theirs.
A good artist considers critique, and improves. A bad artist makes this claim, and doesn’t.

The difference though, is that in most cases an artist or designer will learn from his mistakes and apply that knowledge to his next project. But in the case of interactive media design, improvements can be made post-production, and so audiences are more vocal and persistent about lack of satisfaction, in hopes that changes will be made.