What does Elementalist have over Engineer?

What does Elementalist have over Engineer?

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Posted by: Toolbox.9375

Toolbox.9375

Q:

I’ve been caught in a struggle between these two classes for months, now. The intention, for now, is to use a Celestial armor set with Runes of the Traveler, in order to be able to switch between builds to fill the needs of my group (always the same people, not really interested in “the meta” and powergaming), so super-finely-tuned builds are currently not relevant. We’re pretty-exclusively focused on PvE (including Dungeons and Fractals), though I get into WvW on my own from time to time, usually running around with a zerg because I don’t trust myself to handle the roaming playstyle very well. :P

Currently, to my inexperienced eye, these are the benefits I see:

-Better damage output. Becomes a little less potent with the Engineer’s seemingly-easier Vulnerability application, but still appears to be a good bit better even then.
-Better ally-healing. Engineer seems to have a better burst-heal with Healing Turret, but between Soothing Mist, the various weapon heals, and Evasive Arcana, Elementalist seems to me to be far more adept at a straight-up healing role when such a thing is needed.
-Better passive defense. Has a lower basic armor rating due to using Light Armor, but with Stone Flesh, Rock Barrier, and Signet of Stone adding on Toughness, plus Geomancer’s Defense and Diamond Skin/Stone Heart, it seems like Elementalist has a LOT of stuff simply allowing them to eat more attacks.
-Better movement. Dagger/Dagger has two decent movement abilities, and Fiery Greatsword gives extremely potent mobility, as well.
-Better team-applied Swiftness. Engineer’s only built-in approaches are the Med Kit Throw Accelerant ability, and the not-terribly-viable-when-moving Experimental Turrets boost from Net Turret. Elementalist gets Elemental Attunement, plus Air Staff’s #4 if the Staff is equipped. As my friends play Guardian and Mesmer, this is fairly big. XD
-Lightning Flash. Just a TON of different intersting uses, I’m not even close to knowing them all.
-Cooler appearance. Highly subjective, but I certainly feel that the light armor, available weapons, and general attack animations all look a lot more impressive than those of the Engineer. My current setup looks very tech-y, which makes up for the fact that the name “Toolbox” fits more with an Engineer. :P

Areas where Engineer seems to pull ahead:

-Easier/more reliable Vulnerability application via Grenade Kit and the Explosives trait line.
-Constant Stability via Flamethrower Kit and Juggernaut, versus the ridiculous-cooldown Stability moves on Elementalist.
-More reliable Stunbreak access… Most often, I end up being in a Flamethrower/Elixir Gun/Elixir U build, giving two Stunbreaks.
-Quickness, via Elixir U, with a very nice 10+ second duration that makes it super handy for any long-activation story items such as the door panel in the Underground Facility Fractal. Plus reviving, gathering, combat… I like Quickness a good bit.
-Stealth via Smoke Field and Elixir S toolbelt skill. I haven’t actually really made use of this much, but I know it exists and is available if I ever do end up needing it.
-More frequent Blind fields via Bomb Kit and Mortar #4. I use these a LOT when needing to revive my friends, or just in general to reduce the damage we all take.
-Higher uptime on survivability buffs. Invulnerability through Elixir S, stealth through Elixir S, the previously mentioned Blind fields, blocks on both the Shield and Tool Kit…
-More reliable projectile reflection. Shield’s #4, Med Kit’s Streamlined Kits ability, and the big one, Advanced Turrets.
-Rifle’s unique Jump Shot. We do a lot of jump puzzles and general climbing, and the long-jump ability of Rifle is quite useful for that.
-Light production. Fairly minor, but the flashes from grenades, bombs, mortar shots, gunshots, flamethrower… ALL of them provide light for darker areas. As far as I could tell in my testing, nothing from Elementalist does the same. I can’t goof off in dark places!
-More fitting name. I’m “Toolbox”, it’s just spot-on. XD

Now, to be fair, I have a lot more experience with Engineer, and so I’ve determined far more of their intricacies and fun little tricks. I’m certain there’s a LOT of simple pleasures on Elementalist that I don’t know of. That’s the kind of stuff I’m hoping will be revealed to me in this thread, as well as any other stuff that helps differentiate the two so I can finally make a choice. X)

The class is always greener on the other side.

What does Elementalist have over Engineer?

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Posted by: P Fun Daddy.1208

P Fun Daddy.1208

Elementalist staff has the highest DPS in PvE of any weapon in the game (sadly with the least engaging playstyle possible), for starters, and if you need utility focus has an AoE 6 second projectile destroy, a reflect, and a full invuln that still lets you cast skills (cool in jumping puzzles if you have to worry about conditions/cc). They also have Ice Bow, which is a must in AC and nice on any large target.

These are essentially the only things that matter in PvE until very high level fractals, or soloing, or if you have little dungeon experience, none of which seem to apply here. In terms of efficiency, the meta will usually be 1 guard (aoe defense) 2 eles (damage) 1 warrior (banners are the only thing you can really stack once you cap might and crit chance) and 1 mesmer (purely for utility; portal, blink, and tons of reflects are nice), as it has been since launch.

You can, of course, run whatever you want, but you seem to want the relative merits of each in a PvE setting and that’s just how it is.

In terms of WvW, staff ele is king of support. Engi used to be a fun roamer, I haven’t messed around with mine in a while so I;m not sure of the state it is in now.

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Posted by: Toolbox.9375

Toolbox.9375

Oh, I knew I was forgetting things! Ice Bow, that was something I intended to mention, but it slipped my mind in the end. X) I’ve also heard that Lightning Hammer is a good Conjure. Does that still hold true after the Condition changes, or do direct-and-condition damage abilities pull ahead now?

How are daggers, at this point? They’re honestly one of the biggest draws, for me, simply because of that beautiful Incinerator skin. Which I’m a few years off from ever actually getting, BUT HEY, it gives me something to shoot for. :P

The class is always greener on the other side.

What does Elementalist have over Engineer?

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Posted by: P Fun Daddy.1208

P Fun Daddy.1208

Oh, I knew I was forgetting things! Ice Bow, that was something I intended to mention, but it slipped my mind in the end. X) I’ve also heard that Lightning Hammer is a good Conjure. Does that still hold true after the Condition changes, or do direct-and-condition damage abilities pull ahead now?

How are daggers, at this point? They’re honestly one of the biggest draws, for me, simply because of that beautiful Incinerator skin. Which I’m a few years off from ever actually getting, BUT HEY, it gives me something to shoot for. :P

Lightning hammer is pretty cool and was meta for a while in PvE with s/f until might became a bit more available, because of the blinds and the blast finisher on autos (every third). Now it falls behind staff because the extra might stacking is no longer necessary, but is still solid if you’re willing to practice the strict rotation it has for top efficiency.
Daggers are the best PvP weapon, and are good in WvW roaming as well, with mediocre zerg potential (because low stats aren’t suited to frontlining, though it’s still possible). You can use it in PvE, and it’s fantastic if your group doesn’t have a whole lot of might production, but keep in mind that your personal damage will fall behind staff.
D/D aurashare used to be pretty cool, but fell off a while ago.

What does Elementalist have over Engineer?

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Posted by: Mightybird.6034

Mightybird.6034

Engi’s largest strength over ele will always be that engi can do it all whereas ele will (almost certainly) never have access to stealth or reflect like engi does. Engi has a real elite as well…

That and their passive defense (makes a bigger difference than most people like to pretend on forums) are what stand out to me the most.

Engi’s can customize their kits to the situation too, which is quite nice. An observant engi is best at filling in any gaps in a party.

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Posted by: Sirbeaumerdier.3740

Sirbeaumerdier.3740

Engi’s largest strength over ele will always be that engi can do it all whereas ele will (almost certainly) never have access to stealth or reflect like engi does. Engi has a real elite as well…

Ele has a reflect, it’s called magnetic aura.

What does Elementalist have over Engineer?

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Posted by: Mightybird.6034

Mightybird.6034

Engi’s largest strength over ele will always be that engi can do it all whereas ele will (almost certainly) never have access to stealth or reflect like engi does. Engi has a real elite as well…

Ele has a reflect, it’s called magnetic aura.

“like engi” Reflect wall? Do you really not know what I mean? Its not the same group utility.

(edited by Mightybird.6034)

What does Elementalist have over Engineer?

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Posted by: P Fun Daddy.1208

P Fun Daddy.1208

Engi’s largest strength over ele will always be that engi can do it all whereas ele will (almost certainly) never have access to stealth or reflect like engi does. Engi has a real elite as well…

Ele has a reflect, it’s called magnetic aura.

“like engi” Reflect wall? Do you really not know what I mean? Its not the same group utility. Do you not play the game or just like to waste time?

Ehh, if you decided to take powerful auras you could have a 5-person magnetic aura for five seconds on a 30 second cooldown, which isn’t bad at all.
I wouldn’t though because that’s the guardian/mesmer’s job, not mine.

What does Elementalist have over Engineer?

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Posted by: Mightybird.6034

Mightybird.6034

Ehh, if you decided to take powerful auras you could have a 5-person magnetic aura for five seconds on a 30 second cooldown, which isn’t bad at all.
I wouldn’t though because that’s the guardian/mesmer’s job, not mine.

Not sure it works the same as a lot of the cheese walls do (like with lupi) but that is a good point. But then you probably wouldn’t want to rely on an engi for that either… so the distinction is minor, and I guess both classes coudl fill the reflection niche if it was missing about the same, guess I was wrong, apologies Sirbeaumerdier

(edited by Mightybird.6034)