Guild Wars 2

Raif.9507:

Xillllix.3485:

Argol Vazin.3061:

morrolan.9608:

My issue with it is not that, its that the class is meant to be primarily a ranged magic caster

Then you clearly have no clue about this game if that is what you think.

Yet that’s what elementalists were in Guild Wars 1…

With all the issues I have with Tempest, I don’t agree with Elementalist being only a ranged caster. Yes it was that in Guild Wars 2, but we can all agree that the Guild Wars 2 Elementalist is nothing like the original and can either be ranged or melee.

I would postulate that the sheer effectiveness of melee range builds is largely accidental and it was originally provided merely as an alternative. We are the class with the least passive defenses in the entire game given we are light armor and have the lowest base health. And indeed that the lack of decent use of ranged builds in sPvP points to the need for another ranged option rather than another melee range option.

Wolfric.9380:

Tempest seems made careful not to make ele better in anny way, since that would be bad, and it does the job well :-)

My new signature, ty bro <3

Malchior.5732:

Jski.6180:

Malchior.5732:

OtakuDFifty.2965:

The “hate” seems to revolve around “if it can’t replace PvP metas it’s trash.” That’s a problem with all the class boards here, so kindly ignore it.

It can’t replace Cele D/D, but it also can’t do anything better.
It can’t replace Staff in PvE, but it also can’t do anything better.
It can’t make Scepter a more viable option either.

So what does it do exactly?

Other then being tempest cele d/d giving more ability for d/d ele to simply get away for free with -100% duration to soft cc war 2.0 hehe.
Tempest not a dps but it is support so if you need more of a support staff it dose.
Scepter is as pure dmg wepon so why is that an issue?

Scepter isn’t pure damage, but whatever; it doesn’t provide ANYTHING for Scepter players.

Well actually, it provides scepter players with additional truly mid-range spells and AOE CC effects (which are super helpful if the enemy tries to focus you). I find the warhorn to be the perfect compliment to my fresh air zerker build.

morrolan.9608:

In sPvP sure but not in PvE or WvW

Balance only matters in pvp.

striker.3704:

Malchior.5732:

Jski.6180:

Malchior.5732:

OtakuDFifty.2965:

The “hate” seems to revolve around “if it can’t replace PvP metas it’s trash.” That’s a problem with all the class boards here, so kindly ignore it.

It can’t replace Cele D/D, but it also can’t do anything better.
It can’t replace Staff in PvE, but it also can’t do anything better.
It can’t make Scepter a more viable option either.

So what does it do exactly?

Other then being tempest cele d/d giving more ability for d/d ele to simply get away for free with -100% duration to soft cc war 2.0 hehe.
Tempest not a dps but it is support so if you need more of a support staff it dose.
Scepter is as pure dmg wepon so why is that an issue?

Scepter isn’t pure damage, but whatever; it doesn’t provide ANYTHING for Scepter players.

Well actually, it provides scepter players with additional truly mid-range spells and AOE CC effects (which are super helpful if the enemy tries to focus you). I find the warhorn to be the perfect compliment to my fresh air zerker build.

I don’t think dropping the defense of Focus is worth it. You lose the Invuln, Swirling Winds, a reliable Reflect and Condi Cleanse, and Gale is harder to dodge than Cyclone.
You do gain a Water Field and Tidal Surge, but blasting it sounds like more effort than it’s worth.

Balance only matters in pvp.

Like kitten it does.

Well, the problem with the Tempest and why those who value some form of viability are dissapointet with it is, that its mechanic goes contrary to what the Elementalist base mechanics actually are, wich makes it fail in the long run.

The only attunements that the Elementalist stays in long enough to actually get the option to overcharge it, are fire in player versus environment and air in player vs player.

However, you never stay in water or earth for the 5 seconds it takes the overcharge to be available, and even if you did, overcharging it then would be counterproductive, as you are crippling yourself, by putting the attunement cooldown on an extra 10 seconds (6 if traitet) for a total of 20 seconds attunement cd, wich defeats the purpose of water and earth.
Eles go into water for heals and cleanses and then leave it again ASAP, in order to put it on cd, so that it also is available again ASAP.
Earth is the same. We use it to migrate damage with protection, or gain stability, or use blast finishers, as well as invulnis, only to get out of it fast again in order to put it on cd so we can attune to it again sooner rather than later.
Ergo we will never stay the 5 seconds and lock ourselfs out of it for 20s instead of just 9s base with the Arcana traitline.
Not to mention that the overcharge effects are utterly bad for the price they cost, with perhaps fire being the exeption.

The warhorn offhand was also a bad idea, because we already have 2 excellent offhand weapons.
Dont misunderstand me please, im not a sword fanboy. I actually like the warhorn, however we needed another mainhand, not an offhand.
As it stands now warhorn is either worse than dagger and focus and will see no play, or replaces either dagger or warhorn, wich will also be bad.
Either way, it doesnt increase our options, especually since the scepters sustained damage is horrible due to its horrible auto attacks.
So that leaves us only with the dagger as a mainhand (staff doesnt even compete here cause it a 2 hander).

So how can it be fixed?

Imo tempest needs to add something on top of that, wich we already are doing, in order to make it worthy for either replacing water, or arcana in our pvp setup.

This is how I think this can be solved:

First of all, get rid of the cd till overcharge. Make it available the moment we hit the attunement.

Second, make the overcharging push us out of our current attunement when the channel is done and place said overcharded attunement on a normal 10 seconds cd, just like we went out of it on our own (in order to still be able to chose wich attunement we go in when overcharging, keep it so we can switch while the overcharge animation happens. If we dont switch ourselfs make it switch automaticly on a priority system. If all attunements are on cd, make overcharging impossible).

Thirdly, buff the overcharge effects.
Give all (exept water) a baseline stack of stability. Air overcharge needs its damage increased to make it worthy of a cast, earth needs to knock down foes during the channel every 2 seconds for 1 second and water needs its healing beefed up.
My personal preference would be that it would scale bad with healing power, but heals half of what the elite water elemental heals with its active skill, during the overcharge channel. That way it wouldnt become op on celestial, but non healing power builds would actually get a nice extra heal, every 12 seconds or so. Also without stab on water overcharge, the heal would be easy to interrupt wich I think is fair.

All right, on to the warhorn:
As i have said, another offhand was a bad idea, but if you really want to roll with it you need to give it a niche role that both dagger offhand and focus cannot fullfill at the moment, that however at the same time, is viable. What that would be I cannot say, because honestly, nothing comes to mind, however if you truly dont want to give us another mainhand, you definatly have to fix the scepter auto attcks. No way around that. It should be done anyway but its even more important then.

Last but not least, and this one is like a slap in our faces, cause we have been asking you for a good one since forever: give us a kitten elite worthy of the name!
Compare the elementalist ones to all the elites mesmers, engis, warriors and necros have, and you will notice how bad ours really are, but the new shout is just not even funny anymore. Its like you guys are not even trying to sell us kitten as rain anymore, but straight pee in our faces!
Make it a strong aoe alacrity buff that lasts for 10 seconds with a reasonable cooldown.
I mean we deserve a good elite, come on!

Anyway, thats my 2 cents.

Cheers!

However, you never stay in water or earth for the 5 seconds it takes the overcharge to be available, and even if you did, overcharging it then would be counterproductive, as you are crippling yourself, by putting the attunement cooldown on an extra 10 seconds (6 if traitet) for a total of 20 seconds attunement cd, wich defeats the purpose of water and earth.

It’s only a problem if you are constantly cycling elements, which is a way to play, but not the only way, particularly for a Tempest. Keep in mind that when you overload, say, Fire, 1. You aren’t forced out of Fire, so you can continue to use it, and 2. Overloading takes time.

What this means is, instead of doing a “default” rotation of all four elements, burning your CDs and moving on, you use a different strategy. Now I’m no expert on what the best possible rotations would be, but let’s say it’s just straight down the line for simplicity, so F>W>A>E>F. You can do that in the current state and all the elements will be off Cd when you need them.

In Tempest, let’s say you do the same rotation, you go into fire, burn all your CDs, then
have to hit 1 a couple times perhaps, then Overload becomes available. You burn that, then burn the shorter cooldowns a second time. Then you shift to water, and let’s skip the overload there, but you burn the CDs. Then shift to Air, burn CDs, make a few attacks until Overload is an option, and then Overload. Now by the time that’s done channeling, Fire is probably already off cooldown, and you’ve still got Earth to go through. It’s a longer duration cycle, but the longer CDs on attunements are really nto a big deal, because you’ll still have plenty of solid options.

Now, that said, they could certainly tweak things, maybe a shorter delay on when you can activate the Overload, maybe tweak the way Overloads work, but I think the general idea is a perfectly sound one. You don’t have to use it every time, but in cases where the Overload is useful to you, the cooldown on it is hardly crippling.

And for the record, I wouldn’t use Water’s Overload unless I were in a large group situation in a fairly healer-specced build, it’s not really worth it otherwise, but for that role I think it’d be worth using, especially since a player in that role would be staying in water more of the time anyways.

The warhorn offhand was also a bad idea, because we already have 2 excellent offhand weapons.

I’m not a fan of Warhorn either, didn’t even bother to play it this weekend, but it was ALWAYS going to be an offhand weapon of some type, or at least that was highly highly likely. Even as an offhand, it’s providing eight new attacks to any other class’s five (and Mesmer’s two), a mainhand weapon would have added twelve, which is a bit greedy. I don’t expect Eles to get another mainhand until the other classes get some sort of major weapon buff, like both a two-hander and a main, or two mains and an offhand or something. Thieves are in a similar boat due to their #3 synergies.

Second, make the overcharging push us out of our current attunement when the channel is done and place said overcharded attunement on a normal 10 seconds cd,

This would be great for people who constantly rotate through the elements, but terrible for those that want to stay in one. From what I gather, the Tempest is meant to lean towards the latter players.

My main thing with tempest was that I couldn’t fit it in with my build, all the others I could, but my Critomancer build was not viable and I tried an Auramancers build, and the last trait that heals for each aura didn’t feel potential enough because I was pop all my shouts at once, I think that should be more similar to Monks focus healing, I do feel that is a little stronger. As for OLs water I think is fine just like some 1 time skill that so healing, fire and Air should be ground targetable, earth could have a bigger radius.

Bigger radious on earth would allow better animation, that norns and charrs could fit.
Also bigger bubble for water for tcem would be appreaciated.

I used to play scepter/focus, as earth bender, so I like concept of that overload, surfing on earth tide is as concept good, but need tweaks in how its works and looks like.

Still playing s/f or Staff eventually s/d.

Radious of fire overload 180, would buff that one to 240. Or at least when we channel 240 but when we leave tornado after successful channel it can be 180. Reason is simple: channeling should be more profiting than effect that it leaves after.

Radious for Earth OL rise from 240 to 360 and blast combo finisher should have its own radious 450.

Flash Freeze rise range to 900 from 600.
Eye of the Storm rise range to 1200 from 600.
Rebound rise range to 2000 from 600.

Shout range for those 3 is so small that it is almost shame.

Wash the Pain Away have no range indicator, and tooltip should also show second and third pulses.

+ I realy want feature button which I suggested for Dragon’s Tooth and Comet. Button with letter ,, G " . When off skill work normaly. When on skill is ground targeted.

Jski.6180:

Laraley.7695:

Jski.6180:

zalcs.9701:

Jski.6180:

Laraley.7695:

Jski.6180:

Tempest is not the dps specialization so every one hates it.

Well, they did promise new playstyles for your class and all we got is dagger 2.0. Can’t blame people for being mad.

Aoe stun brake and true boon sharing is a new playstyle for the ele class.
So it more of an made up “mad” that ppl are dealing with.

BRAKE. BRAKE
Tempest and/or warhorn has no synergy with neither dagger nor scepter, the shouts and heal skill (and elite) is utter garbage, and basically there’s nothing new brought to the table whatsoever, except the 30s cd boonshare (yay, we get to share 5s protection and 11 sec 3stack might)

It realty dose not need full synergy in the ideal of dmg but dagger even scepter gives the ele the abitly to blast heal and some level of cc. The WH has more to do with your pt then with your own skills. If all your giving is 5 s of protection and 11 sec of 3 stack might your doing it wrong (though they get a +2 sec if you swap to earth for added effect) the ideal is to boonshare when you have some of the strongest stab and protection effect in the game. On top of that doing all of this well timed allows you to self stun brake high protection duration and aoe stab (10 stacks) with an added stun brake for your team there is simply no other class in the game whom can do this.

Yea, there is. Guardian.

Guardian is not a new way to play the ele class. That the thing this is a question of ele playing differently not ele playing something comply different from every thing in the game. You could say dragon hunter plays like ranger or any dps play like one class or another but a dragon hunter plays different from an guardian. Also guardian cant aoe stun brake the passive build your talking about only gives aoe stab to your team the stun brake is self only.

@jski, it is a player mentality problem…

Anet is adding more “mechanics” to the game why only guardian should be similiar to that?
In long term every class will do a bit of what other classes do, that is the no trinity game, problem is players want all their options to face melt targets, instead of wanting other roles/ different ways/mechanics to play each class and ask for a better balance between those roles, but this is Anet fault becouse they are poorly balancing overall class mechanics.

Personally, I don’t hate it but I really don’t like it either. Sadly, unless you want to play with the auras the existing synergy with the other trait lines is very poor.

Also, while the overload idea has potential, for now the risk/reward aspect of it is kitten. Why should I penalize myself overloading fire with the consequence of doing so if my lava font dps is at least as good? Yes, I know it’s also a finisher that burns and pulse might but considering how long it takes to channel and the consequences of doing so I was expecting a bigger payoff.

The elite is also not just extraordinarily underwhelming save for very specific group settings, it’s also not fitting an ele thematic even if it’s arcane aligned. Making it an arcane shout could have been better even if it’s clearly a chronomancer gimmick, not an elementalist one.

Ultimately, what makes me really disappointed is that I’m left wondering why I would ever want to pick that specialization? What can it do that I can’t already do with the other line, and better at that, except stun break others? It is simply not worth giving up other specializations for that one.

@Ohoni.6057

From a pure pve standpoint you are correct, wich is why I said the fire overlaod is somewhat viable, cause a firestaff pve ele will usually camp fire anyway.
Same with air, mainly cause of fresh air here, however, even in a full healing, support build, you really should not stay in water at all.

When you swap to water you gain an aoe heal+ regen and condi cleanse and then you dodge for another from evasive arcana, but the latter has a 10 second cd anyway and ofc you cant switch to water for the on switch effect if you camp in water.

What this means is that even if you go full support and try to maximize your healing output, you want to go in, dodge, burn your skills and get out.
Like this you get a much higher healing output, than if you would just stay, cause everything, worth a cast will be on at least a 10 second cd anyway. So why would you want to cast the water overload and lessen your potential healing output, by staying in the attunement?
Sure, you can argue that the overcharge substitudes for the “on switch” trait and you can dodge again after the channel, to get the same heals, but then you still put a 20 second cd on water and will run into potential problems, when you actually do have to switch out of it after overcharging.

Also, for support you also need earth to give aoe stab, protection and possibly some earth wep skills. So even as full support and heals you willl have to at least alternate between water and earth to be effective (also, good celestial staff eles combo with their own fields and to do that even a Tempest had to change attunements).

As to the reason why I would like to get a new mainhand rather than an offhand.
Its not because Im greedy, but because I sincerely believe that we currently need it more than we need another offhand.
But that is only an issue cause of scepters autos. If we got the equivalent of lightning whip on one of our scepter autos I would not even complaint about getting an offhand, but as it stands only the dagger is a viable mainhand weapon.
Scepter always relied on lightning hammer autos to fill the auto attack gap, wich is a problem.

The last point you mentioned is about adaptability. You might get away with it, or it might even be required of you to stay in 1 attunement in pve settings (fire cough cough), but in pvp and wvw you have to switch around and use all your skills at the right time to be competitive, or you will not be on par with anyone else.
And no matter what ANet choses to add to the Tempest, they will not be able to change that fact, unless they completely overhaul our class mechanic when we go tempest.

As it stands now the current overcharge system feels like self mutilation to me rather than something beneficial.
However I agree with you that fire in pve and air in pvp dont suffer from the current system whatsoever. Still not worth sacrificing an almost madatory traitline for it though :/.
Still trying to keep an open mind and hoping for the best however.
In the first beta weekend Revenant sucked balls, but now its was really neat. Who knows maybe they do change Tempest into viability as well.
Fingers crossed

Ohoni.6057:

However, you never stay in water or earth for the 5 seconds it takes the overcharge to be available, and even if you did, overcharging it then would be counterproductive, as you are crippling yourself, by putting the attunement cooldown on an extra 10 seconds (6 if traitet) for a total of 20 seconds attunement cd, wich defeats the purpose of water and earth.

It’s only a problem if you are constantly cycling elements, which is a way to play, but not the only way, particularly for a Tempest. Keep in mind that when you overload, say, Fire, 1. You aren’t forced out of Fire, so you can continue to use it, and 2. Overloading takes time.

We get it!!! we kittening get it!!!
You want a gameplay that allow you to not spam FX … WE GET IT

Now the issue is:
Look at tempest trait line, look carefully, LOOK, L-O-O-K
Done ?
Do you see any kittening sort of cleanse ? NO
Do you see any kittening sort of protection ? NO (2sec on overcharge is nothing)
Do you see any other kittening sort of kittening damage mitigation ? NOOOOOOOO

Tempest just do NOT allow you to camp attunement. And don’t even reward you for it.

.

@ Salshazar.7023
There is a spot that no offhand weapon currently fill: wvw melee train. There is almost everything you need: boonshare, prot, cc, water field.
But issue: CC are badly designed (4air need to be way faster), lack of stability
Fix this and revert this kittened nerf to #5fire (make it boon kick again) and its a viable offhand weapon for melee-train (add some defense option in tempest line and its viable)

Salshazar.7023:

The warhorn offhand was also a bad idea, because we already have 2 excellent offhand weapons.

I dunno, I’ve never been much of a fan of Focus. It has amazing active defense but almost no damage, no mobility, and its support options are limited (not to mention you have the give up the offhand dagger’s healing). It’s great when you absolutely need projectile destroys/reflects, but other than that I’ve just always found the offhand dagger to give you so much more versatility.

In this respect, offhand dagger is the melee Jack of All Trades, Focus is the ranged, defensive option, and Warhorn is for midrange group support. This gives us a pretty decent spread of options. I actually really like the Warhorn, but I just don’t see myself ever using it since it has the anchor around its neck that is the Tempest specialization.

Salshazar.7023:

This is how I think this can be solved:

First of all, get rid of the cd till overcharge. Make it available the moment we hit the attunement.

Second, make the overcharging push us out of our current attunement when the channel is done and place said overcharded attunement on a normal 10 seconds cd, just like we went out of it on our own (in order to still be able to chose wich attunement we go in when overcharging, keep it so we can switch while the overcharge animation happens. If we dont switch ourselfs make it switch automaticly on a priority system. If all attunements are on cd, make overcharging impossible).

Thirdly, buff the overcharge effects.
Give all (exept water) a baseline stack of stability. Air overcharge needs its damage increased to make it worthy of a cast, earth needs to knock down foes during the channel every 2 seconds for 1 second and water needs its healing beefed up.
My personal preference would be that it would scale bad with healing power, but heals half of what the elite water elemental heals with its active skill, during the overcharge channel. That way it wouldnt become op on celestial, but non healing power builds would actually get a nice extra heal, every 12 seconds or so. Also without stab on water overcharge, the heal would be easy to interrupt wich I think is fair.

All right, on to the warhorn:
As i have said, another offhand was a bad idea, but if you really want to roll with it you need to give it a niche role that both dagger offhand and focus cannot fullfill at the moment, that however at the same time, is viable. What that would be I cannot say, because honestly, nothing comes to mind, however if you truly dont want to give us another mainhand, you definatly have to fix the scepter auto attcks. No way around that. It should be done anyway but its even more important then.

Last but not least, and this one is like a slap in our faces, cause we have been asking you for a good one since forever: give us a kitten elite worthy of the name!
Compare the elementalist ones to all the elites mesmers, engis, warriors and necros have, and you will notice how bad ours really are, but the new shout is just not even funny anymore. Its like you guys are not even trying to sell us kitten as rain anymore, but straight pee in our faces!
Make it a strong aoe alacrity buff that lasts for 10 seconds with a reasonable cooldown.
I mean we deserve a good elite, come on!

I generally agree with these changes.

Overloading shouldn’t force you to switch attunements but it should lock you out of using the skills in the overloaded attunement until it comes back off cooldown. This way, you still get to choose which attunement you drop into next but Overloading can be made to be really game-changing.

As a S/D main pretty much since launch, I would love for Scepter autoattacks to get a little buff. They’re honestly terrible right now.

Fire 1: Reduce the cast time to 1 or even 3/4. Or even just rework it entirely so Condi builds don’t have an unclear choice to make between burns in Fire or bleeds in Earth.

Water 1: My preference would be to have something cool proc after hitting a target with 9 autoattack projectiles, either a pulse of healing to allies, or some Chill. (Water 2 also desperately needs to be made less awful, but that’s another story.)

Air 1: Increase the damage for Stage 2 and Stage 3 parts of the chain, or add an extra damage proc at the very end of the chain so finishing the channel feels better.

Earth 1: I’d like to see the number of conditions increase over the chain. 1 Bleed, 2 Bleeds, 2 Bleeds + 1 Poison.

Ohoni.6057:

It’s only a problem if you are constantly cycling elements, which is a way to play, but not the only way, particularly for a Tempest.

You can stay in one attunement for prolonged periods of time but that doesn’t mean it’s as effective as constantly jumping around, because it really isn’t outside of niche situations.

When you swap to water you gain an aoe heal+ regen and condi cleanse and then you dodge for another from evasive arcana, but the latter has a 10 second cd anyway and ofc you cant switch to water for the on switch effect if you camp in water.

Perhaps so. Still, in this case, I don’t think the solution is necessarily to reduce the cooldowns caused by Overloads so that players can return to their classic rapid-rotations, since they’ve made pretty clear that their intent with the Tempest is to slow down attunement swapping, so the solution would more likely be in having traits in Tempest (and maybe in other trait lines) that offer more incentive to stay in a given attunement.

For example using Overloads could reset Evasive Arcana’s cooldown, or recast the “on attunement change” procs, or offer some sort of buff to the current attunement (ie, cast Water Overload and get ten seconds of +healing, cast Air Overload get 10 seconds of +Crit, etc.), things that would make up for any effectiveness lost from not cycling rapidly. I think the Tempest is intended to play very differently, and I respect that.

As to the reason why I would like to get a new mainhand rather than an offhand.
Its not because Im greedy, but because I sincerely believe that we currently need it more than we need another offhand.

Just don’t let any Mesmers hear you say that.

Great, So you play WArT and are a glorified buff bot so that everyone else can enjoy themselves. I tried that exact build, you have no damage output and without someone babysitting you to receive your buffs you are practically useless to a team as you can’t do anything by yourself.