What the Ele Community Agrees On
1 2
what builds stay in water/air?
As for water, how about a ‘healing build’? Sure, it’s not great…but you do have an auto attack that you can use to heal whatever melee is whacking at your target as well. It’s not more useful than attunement swapping, true, but it can be useful at times.
If you can read this then it is proof that ArenaNet’s moderators just, kind and fair.
what builds stay in water/air?
As for water, how about a ‘healing build’? Sure, it’s not great…but you do have an auto attack that you can use to heal whatever melee is whacking at your target as well. It’s not more useful than attunement swapping, true, but it can be useful at times.
If you have a “healing” build the worst thing you can do is stay in water and auto attack. The 15 trait point in water is an AoE heal and can be traited to cleanse multiple conditions from teammates and yourself. If anything you should be switching away from water so you can get the bonus from swapping TO it as much as possible.
People who think the class isn’t designed optimally to attunement swap should watch the very old video of one of the devs (Karl) playing a staff elementalist. Guy attunement dances like crazy and is effective because of it. Mr. Quizzles said it best, so I don’t need to add anything else.
People who think the class isn’t designed optimally to attunement swap should watch the very old video of one of the devs (Karl) playing a staff elementalist. Guy attunement dances like crazy and is effective because of it. Mr. Quizzles said it best, so I don’t need to add anything else.
I can further support this with my own experience.
Thunderhead waypoint (Straits of Devastation) was contested and I was passing by. Saw few fallen team mates and the chaos surronding that area. I arrived and started attunement dancing all over the mobs: Unsteady Ground, Eruption, Static Field, Ice Spike, Geyser, Healing Rain, Flame Burst and Lava Font. Just kept on boogying and moonwalking boons for everyone around me.
In the end few players were like “WTF…well that was a turn around”.
There is a reason why this class is called elementalist…use it or change class…otherwise your not fullfilling and dishing out maximum damage.
Proud member of Legion of Honour XIII
Do not click this link!
Do not click this link!
As for water, how about a ‘healing build’? Sure, it’s not great…but you do have an auto attack that you can use to heal whatever melee is whacking at your target as well. It’s not more useful than attunement swapping, true, but it can be useful at times.
If you have a “healing” build the worst thing you can do is stay in water and auto attack. The 15 trait point in water is an AoE heal and can be traited to cleanse multiple conditions from teammates and yourself. If anything you should be switching away from water so you can get the bonus from swapping TO it as much as possible.
Wheter that is worst or not depends on the situation. The healing from the auto attack would be decent. I’m not saying that people should build around it, but there situations in which it would be a viable tactic.
If you can read this then it is proof that ArenaNet’s moderators just, kind and fair.
As for water, how about a ‘healing build’? Sure, it’s not great…but you do have an auto attack that you can use to heal whatever melee is whacking at your target as well. It’s not more useful than attunement swapping, true, but it can be useful at times.
If you have a “healing” build the worst thing you can do is stay in water and auto attack. The 15 trait point in water is an AoE heal and can be traited to cleanse multiple conditions from teammates and yourself. If anything you should be switching away from water so you can get the bonus from swapping TO it as much as possible.
Wheter that is worst or not depends on the situation. The healing from the auto attack would be decent. I’m not saying that people should build around it, but there situations in which it would be a viable tactic.
No, you can literally get more healing by swapping than you could by staying in water. It’s not just Healing Ripple, but also regen from Elemental Attunement, and if you take Lingering Elements then your Soothing Mist is extended outside of water attunement anyways, and all those arcane traits build up into Evasive Arcana for another heal. Plus if you never attune to earth you can’t use Eruption to combo finish your water fields. And that’s all just counting the healing. You also prevent damage through CC, blinds, protection, etc. so if you prioritized healing you would be losing damage mitigation overall.
Healing bunker builds are a very common elementalist build in tournaments, and they don’t stay in water just to spam Water Blast, they would die. And most of them are 30 arcane. Healing is not a sub-optimal build, it’s been explored extensively, but staying in water IS a sub-optimal way to play a healing build.
No, you can literally get more healing by swapping than you could by staying in water. It’s not just Healing Ripple, but also regen from Elemental Attunement, and if you take Lingering Elements then your Soothing Mist is extended outside of water attunement anyways, and all those arcane traits build up into Evasive Arcana for another heal. Plus if you never attune to earth you can’t use Eruption to combo finish your water fields. And that’s all just counting the healing. You also prevent damage through CC, blinds, protection, etc. so if you prioritized healing you would be losing damage mitigation overall.
Healing bunker builds are a very common elementalist build in tournaments, and they don’t stay in water just to spam Water Blast, they would die. And most of them are 30 arcane. Healing is not a sub-optimal build, it’s been explored extensively, but staying in water IS a sub-optimal way to play a healing build.
You’re misinterpeting what I’m trying to say. I’m not claiming by any means that the best way to play a ‘healing build’ is to spam Water Blast all day. However, what I mean to say is that, under some circumstances, staying in Water a while longer and spamming Water Blast can be a viable tactic. Especially if you’re supporting a melee’s own healing skills (and they already have regeneration for example).
It would mostly apply to situations where going into close range isn’t an option, but your long range heals are on cooldown. Take the champion karka for example. You don’t wanna be close to that thing. But if you got your earth elemental to tank it, it can stay alive a good while longer if you cast a few water blasts on it. Especially if you have a large group of people tossing around other effects.
Again, it’s not a solid long term strategy. But it can be a good short term tactic, in specific situations. That’s all I ever meant to say.
If you can read this then it is proof that ArenaNet’s moderators just, kind and fair.
You’re misinterpeting what I’m trying to say. I’m not claiming by any means that the best way to play a ‘healing build’ is to spam Water Blast all day. However, what I mean to say is that, under some circumstances, staying in Water a while longer and spamming Water Blast can be a viable tactic. Especially if you’re supporting a melee’s own healing skills (and they already have regeneration for example).
It would mostly apply to situations where going into close range isn’t an option, but your long range heals are on cooldown. Take the champion karka for example. You don’t wanna be close to that thing. But if you got your earth elemental to tank it, it can stay alive a good while longer if you cast a few water blasts on it. Especially if you have a large group of people tossing around other effects.
Again, it’s not a solid long term strategy. But it can be a good short term tactic, in specific situations. That’s all I ever meant to say.
I’d be interested to see the math, but I suspect switching the Earth, waiting out Water’s cooldown, then Earth 2 + Water 3 would give more healing than 9 seconds of autoattacking from Water. You’d also be inflicting Weakness with Earth’s autoattack, so there’d be some significant damage mitigation during those 9 seconds done as well. Or you could switch to Air for Air 2, 5, 3 before moving to Earth (which would cause quite a bit of damage mitigation as well).
Then again, it’s hard to say without easily-visible Power/Healing Power ratios. I really wish those were more explicit across the board.
I main Ele and Necro, though I have an alt of each profession at level 80.
How to Condi Reaper on a budget
Everything I say is only in reference to PvE and WvW.
How to Condi Reaper on a budget
Everything I say is only in reference to PvE and WvW.
Just bumping this thread because it deserves to be up top. This really is a great thread about changes that Anet should seriously consider and hopefully implement over time.
Now let me ask one more question, if ele is designed to be playable staying in one attunement, what builds stay in water/air?
This is what shows your lack of reading comprehension. The statement “ele’s are NOT BALANCED around swapping” is NOT THE SAME AS " ele’s are BALANCED around NOT swapping". Show me where I said that. The 2 competing arguments here are:
- ele’s are balanced around swapping
vs
- ele’s are NOT balanced around swapping
and not
- ele’s are balanced around swapping
vs
- ele’s are balanced around NOT swapping <- I was not talking about this
At least know the discussion before you dive into it.
Here’s an example of a trait that promotes swapping:
- elemental attunement – buff on swap based on attunement you enter (this is a good direction, why not follow it up on the other trait lines?)
- mighty attunement perhaps – 5might stacks for 3 sec on swap (not just to fire)
here’s an example of a weak trait that promotes swapping:
- sunspot – aoe fire damage on swap to fire
- why not just on swap (no matter what attune you enter)
here’s an example of a trait that does not promote swapping:
- pyromancer’s puissance – 1might stack for 5sec on FIRE spell cast (and its a freakin grandmaster trait)
I looked it up on dictionary.com
pu·is·sance [pyoo-uh-suh?ns, pyoo-is-uh?ns, pwis-uh?ns] Show IPA
noun, Literary.
power, might, or force.
So it’s basically might/strength/power of the pyromancer. Why couldn’t it mean that my link to fire is so strong, that EVERY SPELL I cast causes might?
So again to repeat. Ele’s are NOT balanced on swapping. To add since some do not have the intellectual capacity to read between the lines. Ele’s are NOT balanced on NOT swapping.
In short, we have NO THEME that we are balanced around. We’re just a mix of traits that contradicts each other.
So again to repeat. Ele’s are NOT balanced on swapping. To add since some do not have the intellectual capacity to read between the lines. Ele’s are NOT balanced on NOT swapping.
But you seem to be saying an Elementalist that doesn’t swap attunements (if built with the assumption that he will stay in one element most of the time) will be as powerful as an Elementalist that constantly swaps attunements (if built with the assumption that he will dance attunements). I guess the question then is, would an Elementalist that stays in one attunement be balanced against another profession with a similar sphere of focus? So if you’re going DPS Fire Ele, would that be roughly equivalent in DPS to a DPS Warrior or Ranger or Thief? Since this Ele isn’t using his Profession mechanic much (if at all), this would seem to imply that each attunement’s skills are individually overpowered, since those other professions not only have a profession mechanic but can also swap weapons and have better base health and armor.
I main Ele and Necro, though I have an alt of each profession at level 80.
How to Condi Reaper on a budget
Everything I say is only in reference to PvE and WvW.
How to Condi Reaper on a budget
Everything I say is only in reference to PvE and WvW.
No, you can literally get more healing by swapping than you could by staying in water. It’s not just Healing Ripple, but also regen from Elemental Attunement, and if you take Lingering Elements then your Soothing Mist is extended outside of water attunement anyways, and all those arcane traits build up into Evasive Arcana for another heal. Plus if you never attune to earth you can’t use Eruption to combo finish your water fields. And that’s all just counting the healing. You also prevent damage through CC, blinds, protection, etc. so if you prioritized healing you would be losing damage mitigation overall.
Healing bunker builds are a very common elementalist build in tournaments, and they don’t stay in water just to spam Water Blast, they would die. And most of them are 30 arcane. Healing is not a sub-optimal build, it’s been explored extensively, but staying in water IS a sub-optimal way to play a healing build.
You’re misinterpeting what I’m trying to say. I’m not claiming by any means that the best way to play a ‘healing build’ is to spam Water Blast all day. However, what I mean to say is that, under some circumstances, staying in Water a while longer and spamming Water Blast can be a viable tactic. Especially if you’re supporting a melee’s own healing skills (and they already have regeneration for example).
It would mostly apply to situations where going into close range isn’t an option, but your long range heals are on cooldown. Take the champion karka for example. You don’t wanna be close to that thing. But if you got your earth elemental to tank it, it can stay alive a good while longer if you cast a few water blasts on it. Especially if you have a large group of people tossing around other effects.
Again, it’s not a solid long term strategy. But it can be a good short term tactic, in specific situations. That’s all I ever meant to say.
You might call it misinterpreting, but I am staying on topic from the posts I quoted previously. You responded to my post, which quoted seetoo who is claiming elementalist is not balanced around swapping attunements. His arguments revolve primarily around traits, and the existence of a staff build that stays only in fire for max DPS at the expense of all else. Rather than get into a pointless argument over whether that build is any good, I simply challenged that his premise is false unless there are builds that benefit from staying in one attunement for every attunement.
That context is important. I don’t think anyone will disagree that situationally you can benefit from staying in one attunement. We were talking about builds and how the elementalist is balanced. And even the healing builds heal more when swapping.
I went ahead and got some numbers from a pvp bunker build, 1283 healing power:
Healing Ripple: 2580
Regen: 290/s
Soothing Mist: 144/s
Blast Finisher: 1500ish (it’s really hard to read because the combo heart covers it)
Water Blast: 498 with 1.4s cast time (yes, the tooltip is wrong)
So with a 30 Arcane build you have 9.375s attunement cooldown, and you spend at least 2s in water attunement due to global cooldown. So that’s a theoretical minimum of 11.375s between each time you can attune to water.
In that time you can cast 8.125 water blasts for 4046 healing.
You would also gain 11.375s of soothing mist for 1638 healing.
Total: 5684
If you swap out instead, assuming you cast no water blasts since your time in water is spent casting fields:
1 Healing Ripple for 2580
1 Blast Finisher for 1500
6s of regen for 1740
7s of soothing mist for 1008 (2s in water, and 5s from lingering attunements)
Total: 6828 give or take however off I am on the blast finisher.
If you want to get technical with the water field cooldowns you could make the argument that you only get 3 fields every 40s, or 4 cycles. Even with cooldown only healing rain gets cast more. So let’s say 3/4 healing for the blast finisher puts it at 1125 average.
Total: 6453
That’s about 13% more healing before we even consider that spamming water blast is about the least utility and DPS you could reasonably achieve in that time. The real takeaway should be that you get around the same healing either way, so it makes more sense to make a healing build that swaps, even if you want to stay in water for some specific fight, there’s no healing build that really favors that play style.
I think about the only thing this community is sure to agree on is that ANET doesn’t care much about this community. (ANET, feel free to prove me wrong at any time with some actual communication about our favourite profession and your plans for it).
So again to repeat. Ele’s are NOT balanced on swapping. To add since some do not have the intellectual capacity to read between the lines. Ele’s are NOT balanced on NOT swapping.
But you seem to be saying an Elementalist that doesn’t swap attunements (if built with the assumption that he will stay in one element most of the time) will be as powerful as an Elementalist that constantly swaps attunements (if built with the assumption that he will dance attunements). I guess the question then is, would an Elementalist that stays in one attunement be balanced against another profession with a similar sphere of focus? So if you’re going DPS Fire Ele, would that be roughly equivalent in DPS to a DPS Warrior or Ranger or Thief? Since this Ele isn’t using his Profession mechanic much (if at all), this would seem to imply that each attunement’s skills are individually overpowered, since those other professions not only have a profession mechanic but can also swap weapons and have better base health and armor.
Anet claimed that all classes can fill all roles. So since previous mages in previous games have the option to be ranged glass cannons, it would not be ridiculous to try and do that with the elementalist (only to find out later when you’ve wasted too much time with it, that it really can’t).
Just take a look at the staff weapon skills for each attune. All of them have an auto attack. All of them have some attack spells other than the auto attack. If I’m not allowed to build a max range dps staff build, why would any skill other than auto attack have any damage? Staff fire 1 and 2 does the most dps. Sure I could swap to water for a heal here and there. If I do that my dps is kitten for 15 sec. If I stay in fire and just rely on the slot skill heal, my dps stays optimal. It WILL be crap compared to other classes, but it will be optimal to what ever the staff can provide.
The dps of what ever else class can do is irrelevant. We are talking about the damage a pure fire staff ele dps can do compared to a swapping staff ele dps. The discussion is about swapping vs not swapping, not ele range vs warrior range or thief range or what ever other class at range. Bottomline, a dps staff ele is at his best when not swapping.
So again to repeat. Ele’s are NOT balanced on swapping. To add since some do not have the intellectual capacity to read between the lines. Ele’s are NOT balanced on NOT swapping.
But you seem to be saying an Elementalist that doesn’t swap attunements (if built with the assumption that he will stay in one element most of the time) will be as powerful as an Elementalist that constantly swaps attunements (if built with the assumption that he will dance attunements). I guess the question then is, would an Elementalist that stays in one attunement be balanced against another profession with a similar sphere of focus? So if you’re going DPS Fire Ele, would that be roughly equivalent in DPS to a DPS Warrior or Ranger or Thief? Since this Ele isn’t using his Profession mechanic much (if at all), this would seem to imply that each attunement’s skills are individually overpowered, since those other professions not only have a profession mechanic but can also swap weapons and have better base health and armor.
Anet claimed that all classes can fill all roles. So since previous mages in previous games have the option to be ranged glass cannons, it would not be ridiculous to try and do that with the elementalist (only to find out later when you’ve wasted too much time with it, that it really can’t).
Just take a look at the staff weapon skills for each attune. All of them have an auto attack. All of them have some attack spells other than the auto attack. If I’m not allowed to build a max range dps staff build, why would any skill other than auto attack have any damage? Staff fire 1 and 2 does the most dps. Sure I could swap to water for a heal here and there. If I do that my dps is kitten for 15 sec. If I stay in fire and just rely on the slot skill heal, my dps stays optimal. It WILL be crap compared to other classes, but it will be optimal to what ever the staff can provide.
The dps of what ever else class can do is irrelevant. We are talking about the damage a pure fire staff ele dps can do compared to a swapping staff ele dps. The discussion is about swapping vs not swapping, not ele range vs warrior range or thief range or what ever other class at range. Bottomline, a dps staff ele is at his best when not swapping.
IMO, the thing about Ele is that it is a “forced hybrid” class. What I mean by this, is that it doesn’t lend itself well to speccing into one role (DPS, heal, CC) to the exclusion of all others. On the contrary, it tends to do VERY well, when you actively play all roles at once.
As to your statement that ANet claimed all classes can fill all roles…they never said that all classes can choose to be just one role to the exclusion of others. And that seems to be what you are asking for. A pure fire ele indeed will do more damage than one that is switching around their attunements…but they also do less CC, healing, and condition removal.
So you’re basically forcing your hybrid class into a pure DPS role, but ignoring all the other stuff he can do. To me, this is really hurting your effectiveness.
Anyway, I’m not saying that there aren’t (PvE) situations where it’s better to just stay in one attunement…but you really need to be able to switch whenever your group needs it.
Also, I would like to see the DPS of a pure fire Ele, vs. the DPS of one that alternates between fire and earth…I almost think that fire/earth Ele will wind up doing more damage. Eruption is killer, and the bleed damage will stack with your burn damage. You also get the combo fields from eruption in lava font.
Magaera Enflanza (F Human D/D Ele)
[Envy], [Moon]
[Envy], [Moon]
So again to repeat. Ele’s are NOT balanced on swapping. To add since some do not have the intellectual capacity to read between the lines. Ele’s are NOT balanced on NOT swapping.
But you seem to be saying an Elementalist that doesn’t swap attunements (if built with the assumption that he will stay in one element most of the time) will be as powerful as an Elementalist that constantly swaps attunements (if built with the assumption that he will dance attunements). I guess the question then is, would an Elementalist that stays in one attunement be balanced against another profession with a similar sphere of focus? So if you’re going DPS Fire Ele, would that be roughly equivalent in DPS to a DPS Warrior or Ranger or Thief? Since this Ele isn’t using his Profession mechanic much (if at all), this would seem to imply that each attunement’s skills are individually overpowered, since those other professions not only have a profession mechanic but can also swap weapons and have better base health and armor.
Anet claimed that all classes can fill all roles. So since previous mages in previous games have the option to be ranged glass cannons, it would not be ridiculous to try and do that with the elementalist (only to find out later when you’ve wasted too much time with it, that it really can’t).
Just take a look at the staff weapon skills for each attune. All of them have an auto attack. All of them have some attack spells other than the auto attack. If I’m not allowed to build a max range dps staff build, why would any skill other than auto attack have any damage? Staff fire 1 and 2 does the most dps. Sure I could swap to water for a heal here and there. If I do that my dps is kitten for 15 sec. If I stay in fire and just rely on the slot skill heal, my dps stays optimal. It WILL be crap compared to other classes, but it will be optimal to what ever the staff can provide.
The dps of what ever else class can do is irrelevant. We are talking about the damage a pure fire staff ele dps can do compared to a swapping staff ele dps. The discussion is about swapping vs not swapping, not ele range vs warrior range or thief range or what ever other class at range. Bottomline, a dps staff ele is at his best when not swapping.
IMO, the thing about Ele is that it is a “forced hybrid” class. What I mean by this, is that it doesn’t lend itself well to speccing into one role (DPS, heal, CC) to the exclusion of all others. On the contrary, it tends to do VERY well, when you actively play all roles at once.
As to your statement that ANet claimed all classes can fill all roles…they never said that all classes can choose to be just one role to the exclusion of others. And that seems to be what you are asking for. A pure fire ele indeed will do more damage than one that is switching around their attunements…but they also do less CC, healing, and condition removal.
So you’re basically forcing your hybrid class into a pure DPS role, but ignoring all the other stuff he can do. To me, this is really hurting your effectiveness.
Anyway, I’m not saying that there aren’t (PvE) situations where it’s better to just stay in one attunement…but you really need to be able to switch whenever your group needs it.
Also, I would like to see the DPS of a pure fire Ele, vs. the DPS of one that alternates between fire and earth…I almost think that fire/earth Ele will wind up doing more damage. Eruption is killer, and the bleed damage will stack with your burn damage. You also get the combo fields from eruption in lava font.
This. You can stay in fire and do “slightly” better dps maybe. But you’re also not using your class to it’s full potential. One of the reasons you can’t have super amazing dps right now as elementalist is because you CAN swap attunements and have all of the other abilities. They have yet to find a way to make it balanced, and judging by the recent changes I’m not too hopeful they know how best to balance it. They seem content to nerf builds the players have come up with that work, but have yet to replace them with other viable builds.
IMO, the thing about Ele is that it is a “forced hybrid” class. What I mean by this, is that it doesn’t lend itself well to speccing into one role (DPS, heal, CC) to the exclusion of all others. On the contrary, it tends to do VERY well, when you actively play all roles at once.
As to your statement that ANet claimed all classes can fill all roles…they never said that all classes can choose to be just one role to the exclusion of others. And that seems to be what you are asking for. A pure fire ele indeed will do more damage than one that is switching around their attunements…but they also do less CC, healing, and condition removal.
So you’re basically forcing your hybrid class into a pure DPS role, but ignoring all the other stuff he can do. To me, this is really hurting your effectiveness.
Anyway, I’m not saying that there aren’t (PvE) situations where it’s better to just stay in one attunement…but you really need to be able to switch whenever your group needs it.
Also, I would like to see the DPS of a pure fire Ele, vs. the DPS of one that alternates between fire and earth…I almost think that fire/earth Ele will wind up doing more damage. Eruption is killer, and the bleed damage will stack with your burn damage. You also get the combo fields from eruption in lava font.
This. You can stay in fire and do “slightly” better dps maybe. But you’re also not using your class to it’s full potential. One of the reasons you can’t have super amazing dps right now as elementalist is because you CAN swap attunements and have all of the other abilities. They have yet to find a way to make it balanced, and judging by the recent changes I’m not too hopeful they know how best to balance it. They seem content to nerf builds the players have come up with that work, but have yet to replace them with other viable builds.
I don’t really think that Ele’s need to do DPS on par with other classes specced forburst to be “balanced.” Looking game balance in terms of DPS only is a myopic view.
Ele is more of a versatile generalist class, it’s not meant to be a specialist. It brings things to the table that other classes can’t, and still winds up being very effective. I would say that if you want to play a class that can be a master of spike damage, then Ele really isn’t the choice for you.
Magaera Enflanza (F Human D/D Ele)
[Envy], [Moon]
[Envy], [Moon]
You must have misunderstood what I meant, or perhaps I didn’t word it very well.
I agree with you, elementalist aren’t balanced around their dps because if they were it would be overpowered because they have all the other stuff to go with it. Healing, supporting, crowd control etc.
You might call it misinterpreting, but I am staying on topic from the posts I quoted previously. You responded to my post, which quoted seetoo who is claiming elementalist is not balanced around swapping attunements.
It’s still misinterpeting if you mix other’s posts with mine. I did expand on the topic, stating that neither swapping instantly all the time nor staying in 1 attunement all the time is a 100% surefire tactic. If you have issues with that, discuss stuff with me. If you have issues with someone stating that you should stay in 1 element, take it up with them please.
If you can read this then it is proof that ArenaNet’s moderators just, kind and fair.
I think this thread’s title is misleading because the Ele community seems to disagree on everything/agree on nothing; take your pick.
You might call it misinterpreting, but I am staying on topic from the posts I quoted previously. You responded to my post, which quoted seetoo who is claiming elementalist is not balanced around swapping attunements.
It’s still misinterpeting if you mix other’s posts with mine. I did expand on the topic, stating that neither swapping instantly all the time nor staying in 1 attunement all the time is a 100% surefire tactic. If you have issues with that, discuss stuff with me. If you have issues with someone stating that you should stay in 1 element, take it up with them please.
I dunno man, I read the entire exchange, and you pretty much flat out said that under certain circumstances, it would be good to spam water blast. Here is your quote:
However, what I mean to say is that, under some circumstances, staying in Water a while longer and spamming Water Blast can be a viable tactic.
His post proves that this tactic is almost universally inferior to switching out of water, and then switching back to heal. So not only do you heal more by doing this, you also are actually useful to your group, and not just spamming auto-attack.
I’m not really sure what could be misinterpreted here…under no circumstances is spamming water blast a good idea.
Magaera Enflanza (F Human D/D Ele)
[Envy], [Moon]
[Envy], [Moon]
Anet claimed that all classes can fill all roles. So since previous mages in previous games have the option to be ranged glass cannons, it would not be ridiculous to try and do that with the elementalist (only to find out later when you’ve wasted too much time with it, that it really can’t).
Ok, so what it sounds like you’re saying is you wish the Elementalist were balanced without stance dancing, even though you know they’re not in practice.
If I stay in fire and just rely on the slot skill heal, my dps stays optimal. It WILL be crap compared to other classes, but it will be optimal to what ever the staff can provide.
That means staying in one Attunement isn’t viable.
I main Ele and Necro, though I have an alt of each profession at level 80.
How to Condi Reaper on a budget
Everything I say is only in reference to PvE and WvW.
How to Condi Reaper on a budget
Everything I say is only in reference to PvE and WvW.
Anet claimed that all classes can fill all roles. So since previous mages in previous games have the option to be ranged glass cannons, it would not be ridiculous to try and do that with the elementalist (only to find out later when you’ve wasted too much time with it, that it really can’t).
Ok, so what it sounds like you’re saying is you wish the Elementalist were balanced without stance dancing, even though you know they’re not in practice.
What it sounds like is me saying Anet lied about all classes being able to fill all roles. Don’t put words in my mouth just because you lack the ability to read between the lines.
If I stay in fire and just rely on the slot skill heal, my dps stays optimal. It WILL be crap compared to other classes, but it will be optimal to what ever the staff can provide.
That means staying in one Attunement isn’t viable.
It means staff dps isn’t competitive.
As someone who wasn’t planning to main ele but completely fell in love with it on BWE1, I completely concur with everything you said. If they could address these factors, the elementalist would be a vastly improved profession.
What it sounds like is me saying Anet lied about all classes being able to fill all roles. Don’t put words in my mouth just because you lack the ability to read between the lines.
I’m just trying to summarize what it looks like you’re saying.
And really, whether ANet fulfilled their promise or not is beside the point. If you agree that Elementalists can’t do as well staying in one attunement than stance dancing, then we’re all on the same page here…
I main Ele and Necro, though I have an alt of each profession at level 80.
How to Condi Reaper on a budget
Everything I say is only in reference to PvE and WvW.
How to Condi Reaper on a budget
Everything I say is only in reference to PvE and WvW.
What it sounds like is me saying Anet lied about all classes being able to fill all roles. Don’t put words in my mouth just because you lack the ability to read between the lines.
I’m just trying to summarize what it looks like you’re saying.
And really, whether ANet fulfilled their promise or not is beside the point. If you agree that Elementalists can’t do as well staying in one attunement than stance dancing, then we’re all on the same page here…
Then we’re not. To really dumb it down.
non ele ranged dps > [ele fire staff dps > ele swapping staff dps]
Anet claimed that all classes can fill all roles. So since previous mages in previous games have the option to be ranged glass cannons, it would not be ridiculous to try and do that with the elementalist (only to find out later when you’ve wasted too much time with it, that it really can’t).
Ok, so what it sounds like you’re saying is you wish the Elementalist were balanced without stance dancing, even though you know they’re not in practice.
What it sounds like is me saying Anet lied about all classes being able to fill all roles. Don’t put words in my mouth just because you lack the ability to read between the lines.
A class being able to fill all roles != (not equal to) A class being able to specialize in one role to the exclusion of all others.
An Ele or a Guardian can provide far more support to their group when specced thusly than a warrior…and yet I don’t hear them complaining.
The game isn’t built so that EVERY class can do EVERY role to the optimum efficiency. All ANet meant was that each class can perform each role…they said nothing about being the ultimate specialist in each role.
Magaera Enflanza (F Human D/D Ele)
[Envy], [Moon]
[Envy], [Moon]
You might call it misinterpreting, but I am staying on topic from the posts I quoted previously. You responded to my post, which quoted seetoo who is claiming elementalist is not balanced around swapping attunements.
It’s still misinterpeting if you mix other’s posts with mine. I did expand on the topic, stating that neither swapping instantly all the time nor staying in 1 attunement all the time is a 100% surefire tactic. If you have issues with that, discuss stuff with me. If you have issues with someone stating that you should stay in 1 element, take it up with them please.
I dunno man, I read the entire exchange, and you pretty much flat out said that under certain circumstances, it would be good to spam water blast. Here is your quote:
However, what I mean to say is that, under some circumstances, staying in Water a while longer and spamming Water Blast can be a viable tactic.
His post proves that this tactic is almost universally inferior to switching out of water, and then switching back to heal. So not only do you heal more by doing this, you also are actually useful to your group, and not just spamming auto-attack.
I’m not really sure what could be misinterpreted here…under no circumstances is spamming water blast a good idea.
On paper yes. In practice, no. Rare as though they may be.
If you can read this then it is proof that ArenaNet’s moderators just, kind and fair.
Er. Mah. Gerd.
Quit bickering about the balanced for attunement swapping thing. We don’t have weapon swaps, many of our weapon skills appear to be less effective and on longer cooldowns because of our increased access to other skills, and there’s an entire trait line dedicated to swapping. Certainly, some parts of us were balanced with attunement swapping in mind. Other parts of us didn’t seem to take it into account when being created, and those parts are generally perceived as cruddy, lacking zazz.
What it sounds like is me saying Anet lied about all classes being able to fill all roles. Don’t put words in my mouth just because you lack the ability to read between the lines.
I’m just trying to summarize what it looks like you’re saying.
And really, whether ANet fulfilled their promise or not is beside the point. If you agree that Elementalists can’t do as well staying in one attunement than stance dancing, then we’re all on the same page here…
Then we’re not. To really dumb it down.
non ele ranged dps > [ele fire staff dps > ele swapping staff dps]
Thank you, that’s much clearer.
I somewhat agree, but the point of contention isn’t whether Fire has more damage than Water (it clearly does) but whether ANet designed the Elementalist around the assumption that we would be swapping attunements frequently. Even if we grant that our DPS over the course of a fight goes down by swapping out of Fire*, the Ele is clearly less powerful overall if they stay in fire than if they make use of the utility elsewhere in their kit. If pure-DPS-Ele doesn’t work as well as hyprid-DPS/Support/Control-Ele, then you’re shooting yourself in the foot by refusing to dance attunements.
As an example, let’s say the Ele is a Swiss Army knife and the Thief is a sword. Can you do damage with a Swiss Army knife? Sure, but that’s not really what it’s for. Building a fighting style around wielding Swiss Army knives is going to be something of an exercise in frustration if you don’t also take a class on whittling or you refuse to use the corkscrew function to open wine bottles.
*I’m not sure the math would support that because of how weak the Fire autoattack is. It seems to me that you’d be better off swapping to Earth, blowing your kit, swapping to Air, blowing your kit there too, and then switching back to Fire. I don’t really feel like breaking out a calculator, though.
I main Ele and Necro, though I have an alt of each profession at level 80.
How to Condi Reaper on a budget
Everything I say is only in reference to PvE and WvW.
How to Condi Reaper on a budget
Everything I say is only in reference to PvE and WvW.
(edited by Blaine Tog.8304)
The only thing I would disagree with is the idea of making Elemental Attunement a “class feature” because it’s ubiquitous. Just because a trait is very widely used doesn’t mean it should be implemented by default—many games have skills that are generally present in the vast majority of builds, but the idea is that, regardless of whether or not a skill is widely used, we should have to pay something to have it implemented in the first place (in this case, we pay trait points).
I am a great, big monster and I will eat your whole family.
1 2